NVIDIA NDA & HardOCP - POLL

HardOCP Signs the NVIDIA NDA for 2080 Launch Access?

  • Yes

  • No


Results are only viewable after voting.

aliaskary77

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 18, 2006
Messages
358
......i also reread the line leading up to this poll thread:"Is launch day access worth signing an NDA that we have issue with?"

I voted No.

If you had no issue, my original posts stands.
 

Viper87227

Fully [H]
Joined
Jun 2, 2004
Messages
18,013
I voted yes, but with the understanding that I don't speak lawyer. None of the wording stood out to me as something that could prevent you from giving the fair and honest reviews [H] is known for. Sounds more like a standard NDA that covers a longer window than it needs to. If you or your lawyers see otherwise though, that obviously needs to be taken into account.

If you can continue to do the reviews you always have, then fuck it, sign... your in the same boat as every other tech journalist.
 

Vega

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2004
Messages
6,705
Is [H] going to buy the NVLink and test "new" SLI connection?
 

JosiahBradley

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
Messages
1,791
I vote no, here is my 2 cents, take them or leave em. You have one of the strongest (and well funded) group of enthusiast on the planet. I would pitch in a few bucks to subsidize the cost of the GPU just so I get unadulterated real unbiased results from the review. Independent reviews are what make this community and how we determine to vote with our wallets on new hardware. I vote by throwing you guys a donation for cards, just let me know how to send it.
 

Sonicks

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 24, 2005
Messages
1,401
Traffic metrics for [H] need to be taken into account when cost-analyzing the worth of signing the NDA or not.

Ultimately if it were me (and I know it isn't), I'd go back to see how the traffic numbers, and ultimately the revenue that [H] brings in, on popular products in which a launch day review is put up. Then have those numbers compared to traffic metrics when a popular product review is put up any number of days after.

We existing readers won't care too much about the date anything is posted relative to the product launch but we're already guaranteed traffic to this site. What really matters is whether or not breaking your bank to obtain your own samples is worth being late to the reviews and if being late negates your revenue then not signing is not worth it.
 

Gideon

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 13, 2006
Messages
2,928
I voted no, personally you can bench the cards then you can resale them to people here on the forum to recoup the money. Your review may be a day or two later then most but that is no big deal for most, heck even without benchmarks people ran off and bought these cards with basically little info. I would rather have you feel free to report things the way you want, then have 1 hand tied behind your back.
 

drklu

2[H]4U
Joined
Jul 15, 2013
Messages
2,690
No. You'll make more money doing it on your own, who cares if you are day late.
To me it seems more would be made getting the reviews out as fast as possible in order to attract the most readers the quickest. Also not having to pay $5k for cards.
 

equinox654

Gawd
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
527
Sign the NDA. As long as it will still allow for a accurate review. I wouldn't want you having to pay that much to purchase the cards your self every cycle. Hell the next titan is likely to be 3k.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
Messages
2
It's not clear to me exactly what confidential information you would be exposed to. If you post a review on launch day, the "information" is then in the public domain. Or would you be receiving additional information above and beyond the specifications and physical graphics cards prior to launch?

However, I work in a highly regulated industry and I would be very leery of signing any contract written so broadly. In the investment world, often the appearance of wrong-doing is as bad as actual wrong-doing. You might not use confidential information to formulate and disseminate an opinion on NVIDIA tech, but then the burden is on you to prove otherwise, once you sign that contract. NVIDIA could use attempts at enforcement of the contract to stifle your ability to speak freely. They can use bogus claims of NDA violation to drag you into court, forcing you to pay for expensive lawyers, and potentially bankrupt you. I have no idea of whether or not they would do so, since you're fairly high profile in the enthusiast world and it could turn into a PR disaster for them, but who knows??
 
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Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
814
if hardocp is not allowed to be truthful about any issues, then that would transform the site to merely propaganda for marketing. then what then would be the point of doing the review? fuk nvidia, don't sign it :}

nvidia is getting a lot of flak recently for their anti consumer behavior and rightly so. stick to your guns and don't go along with this bs of an nda.
 

Viper87227

Fully [H]
Joined
Jun 2, 2004
Messages
18,013
No. You'll make more money doing it on your own, who cares if you are day late.

My guess is it's a lot more than a day late. Someone step up and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd assume samples get provided early enough that reviews can be published launch day. Waiting on retail cards, you're waiting until launch day for then to ship, a day or two from there before they are in your hands, and then you're working like mad to publish as quickly as possible without sacrificing quality. How long does a GPU review take? A week? More? My guess is that by waiting for retail availability, your more realistically a week to two weeks behind everyone else.
 
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Baenwort

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 10, 2003
Messages
185
I'm going to read your review if it is launch day or a week later. My purchasing isn't so urgent that I can't wait. I come here for the quality and integrity of the reviews. Not the timelyness.
 

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 1997
Messages
52,322
Is [H] going to buy the NVLink and test "new" SLI connection?
upload_2018-8-21_12-43-19.png
 

DooKey

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 25, 2001
Messages
10,543
I can't say yes or no. I guess it depends on what pays the bills. Unfortunately that's what it comes down to. This site needs to stay in business because it brings the best reviews and opinion to the PC Hardware/Gaming world on the internet. I know you'll make the right decision for you and this site.
 

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 1997
Messages
52,322
No. You'll make more money doing it on your own, who cares if you are day late.

I'm going to read your review if it is launch day or a week later. My purchasing isn't so urgent that I can't wait. I come here for the quality and integrity of the reviews. Not the timelyness.
We would likely be 7 to 10 days behind the day we took delivery on the cards. I do not know when embargo on reviews is. So somewhere around Oct. 1 at the best.
 

Bowman15

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 7, 2015
Messages
1,766
I voted yes. These websites are not made out of money and you can see the results of that the last couple of years. It's easy to say "no" when your not the one footing the bill and this is your living. If it doesn't prevent him from having an honest review and he keeps his integrity why not?
 
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LigTasm

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Messages
5,158
My vote was also a NO. I have a tab open on [H] all the time, I do not have tabs open on other sites unless I specifically go looking for them. I like to read the reviews here because they make sense in presentation and I don't have to worry about the integrity. Usually when I compare my own results [H] and GN are the closest to the real world conditions I see so I have no problem waiting a few days.

The caveat to this is obviously if the business suffers and you have to do it, no [H]ard feelings.
 

0x4452

n00b
Joined
Nov 19, 2016
Messages
26
Does the NDA require to omit negative analysis of the cards? My understanding it is that it is mostly about preventing leaks.

If HardOCP does not sign the NVIDIA NDA, then the same needs to be done for AMD's one. I feel AMD has been given a bit of free slack around here, mostly due to lack of negative press. Both companies do things right and wrong. NVIDIA seems to be screwing more on the non-tech side, while AMD - the opposite, as in example the excessive Radeon 480 power consumption.
 

Relampago

n00b
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
6
I've read their NDA that you posted (not sure if there is a longer one than the two page document) and I don't see at all how it restricts or limits your journalistic integrity in any way.

It specifically mentions over and over that there are limitations on Confidential information. Which is basically all any NDA usually covers. So yes, I think HardOCP should sign it because I don't see it harming the integrity of your work.

When I think about the GPP coverage and how that would be any different if you guys were under a multi-year NDA, I see it playing out the exact same way. GPP was publicly announced and therefore news posts hypothesizing on the fallout of such a program, such as your coverage, would have fallen outside of such an NDA.

I don't know, maybe I'm not looking at this the right way but I don't see any negatives and I definitely don't see this NDA being structured such that the signers become marketing tools. But you guys would also need to weigh in what possible positives come from this other than obtaining samples that you don't have to pay for out of pocket for. That's where cost analysis would come into play.

The problem is the CI clause is too broad. It does not just include information they provide him but information that could be gleaned from product they provide him as well.

For example if he finds a critical flaw in his sample I believe this NDA may prevent him from reporting on/disclosing that flaw.
 

NeoNemesis

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 10, 2004
Messages
2,464
I check HardOCP daily, if the NDA is just about preventing leaks prior to product launch I'm okay with it. If it's prevents you from putting out an honest and unbiased review I'm against it. If you think you can retain your journalist integrity after signing the NDA than by all means do so.
 

Concillian

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 14, 2005
Messages
270
I don't think forum users can adequately answer the question. It's a question of is the potential loss of integrity worth $4xxx in 2080Tis. I don't have the budgetary context for the site to adequately answer that. The opinions here will help with understanding the value of the potential restrictions of the NDA. If it comes out no, and Kyle decides to skip signing the NDA, then this old guy will figure out how to use Patreon and cough up some support for the decision. Not a huge amount, but if enough people give a drop in the bucket, we may make the decision less painful. Personally I'm more of a 580 / 1060 price level gamer, but still I really value that [H] strives to remain as independent as possible in a day and age where Many sites have "sold out" to larger conglomerates.
 

Elf_Boy

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
2,458
I am not the one signing the legal contract so I do not see it being right to be saying yes you should or no you should not.

I'd be nice to see reviews and have you mending fences with the Green Eye of Envy, however you need to decide if this is worth the cost, not us.
 

rbarr110

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 8, 2003
Messages
278
Put the fate of your site/business in the hands of your lawyers advice for you to make the judgement call. It is easy for everyone to tell you to take a path that doesn't cost them anything, in the end it's your money and conscience to do what you think is best for the long haul.
 

DNMock

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 16, 2015
Messages
399
If your attorney is advising against signing it, DONT SIGN IT!

Simple as that.

Besides, maybe you can get your hands on someone elses review sample and put your review out before the embargo is lifted.
 

bigdogchris

Fully [H]
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
18,435
I voted Yes. Even though I disagree with how Nvidia handled GPP, I always appreciate what [H] does more than my distaste for Nvidia's recent actions. Having access to their product lineup free of charge will help this site so therefor I support signing the NDA.

At this point, taking an anti-Nvidia stance, or whatever some forum members here may want, doesn't make sense. Most other major players on the Internet are sharing in equal opportunity with Nvidia products. Most people are smart enough to see through BS reviews. Voting No is putting other interest ahead of long-term success for this site.
 
D

Deleted member 93354

Guest
Obviously they didn't cut him off.

Uhhh YES they did. [H] was left out of all inside press information and press presentations.

The only reason they are approving him now is because he will be forced to wear a gag order where he can only praise NVIDIA. That's free press coverage for them and it silences any negativity which might get passed around the web like the GPP program did.
 

fadedlogic

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 7, 2016
Messages
274
You have spent decades building your brand and reputation as THE place for no bullshit, thorough reviews. I voted No prior to reading your attorney's feedback, now I am reassured in my decision. Any NDA/Contract comes down to the language and definitions, the more nebulous they are the more issues that arise from differences in interpretation and in in turn lengthy and expensive litigation. A 5 year NDA is completely out of bounds given the brief life cycle of technology. The internet is littered with noise and the signal is getting tougher to find; please remain a bastion of independence. I have stepped up and signed up to your Patreon.

Awful lot of opinions in here, but looking at the Patreon page, not a lot of people supporting your great work; I was one of them prior to today. Here's hoping you maintain your journalistic independence and this serves as a torrent of new patreon subscribers.
 

Brian_B

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
3,356
Another thought - you could always ask nVidia to accept edits to the NDA. They can always say no, but I don't know of many legal documents that aren't up for some discussion/negotiation.

Of course, the fact that you already purchased cards (and would likely continue to do so) means nVidia probably wouldn't be terribly inclined to accept edits, but who knows. Whatever their response to the request would be would probably speak more than anything nVidia would come out and say directly otherwise.
 

DPI

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 20, 2013
Messages
12,047
Uhhh YES they did. [H] was left out of all inside press information and press presentations.

Proof? "They didnt reply to his email" is not proof I'm afraid. And what press info and presentations .. for which products? There havent been new cards to speak of until yesterday.

The only reason they are approving him now is because he will be forced to wear a gag order where he can only praise NVIDIA. That's free press coverage for them and it silences any negativity which might get passed around the web like the GPP program did.

Highlight in the NDA where it mandates praise. I'll wait.
 
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FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 1997
Messages
52,322
Proof? What inside press info and presentations was he left out of? There havent even been new products to speak of until literally yesterday.
Uh yes. NVIDIA has cut us off from all communication and RTX press exposure.
 
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