NVIDIA NDA & HardOCP - POLL

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by FrgMstr, Aug 21, 2018.

HardOCP Signs the NVIDIA NDA for 2080 Launch Access?

  1. Yes

  2. No

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. aliaskary77

    aliaskary77 Limp Gawd

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    ......i also reread the line leading up to this poll thread:"Is launch day access worth signing an NDA that we have issue with?"

    I voted No.

    If you had no issue, my original posts stands.
     
  2. Viper87227

    Viper87227 [H]ard as it Gets

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    I voted yes, but with the understanding that I don't speak lawyer. None of the wording stood out to me as something that could prevent you from giving the fair and honest reviews [H] is known for. Sounds more like a standard NDA that covers a longer window than it needs to. If you or your lawyers see otherwise though, that obviously needs to be taken into account.

    If you can continue to do the reviews you always have, then fuck it, sign... your in the same boat as every other tech journalist.
     
  3. Vega

    Vega [H]ardness Supreme

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    Is [H] going to buy the NVLink and test "new" SLI connection?
     
  4. TangledThornz

    TangledThornz Gawd

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    Be a [H]ard ass rebel and don't sign it.
     
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  5. Tweak155

    Tweak155 Gawd

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    He did buy 2 of them that I saw.
     
  6. JosiahBradley

    JosiahBradley [H]ard|Gawd

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    I vote no, here is my 2 cents, take them or leave em. You have one of the strongest (and well funded) group of enthusiast on the planet. I would pitch in a few bucks to subsidize the cost of the GPU just so I get unadulterated real unbiased results from the review. Independent reviews are what make this community and how we determine to vote with our wallets on new hardware. I vote by throwing you guys a donation for cards, just let me know how to send it.
     
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  7. Sonicks

    Sonicks [H]ard|Gawd

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    Traffic metrics for [H] need to be taken into account when cost-analyzing the worth of signing the NDA or not.

    Ultimately if it were me (and I know it isn't), I'd go back to see how the traffic numbers, and ultimately the revenue that [H] brings in, on popular products in which a launch day review is put up. Then have those numbers compared to traffic metrics when a popular product review is put up any number of days after.

    We existing readers won't care too much about the date anything is posted relative to the product launch but we're already guaranteed traffic to this site. What really matters is whether or not breaking your bank to obtain your own samples is worth being late to the reviews and if being late negates your revenue then not signing is not worth it.
     
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  8. Gideon

    Gideon 2[H]4U

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    I voted no, personally you can bench the cards then you can resale them to people here on the forum to recoup the money. Your review may be a day or two later then most but that is no big deal for most, heck even without benchmarks people ran off and bought these cards with basically little info. I would rather have you feel free to report things the way you want, then have 1 hand tied behind your back.
     
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  9. drklu

    drklu 2[H]4U

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    To me it seems more would be made getting the reviews out as fast as possible in order to attract the most readers the quickest. Also not having to pay $5k for cards.
     
  10. equinox654

    equinox654 Limp Gawd

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    Sign the NDA. As long as it will still allow for a accurate review. I wouldn't want you having to pay that much to purchase the cards your self every cycle. Hell the next titan is likely to be 3k.
     
  11. speedskater12

    speedskater12 n00b

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    It's not clear to me exactly what confidential information you would be exposed to. If you post a review on launch day, the "information" is then in the public domain. Or would you be receiving additional information above and beyond the specifications and physical graphics cards prior to launch?

    However, I work in a highly regulated industry and I would be very leery of signing any contract written so broadly. In the investment world, often the appearance of wrong-doing is as bad as actual wrong-doing. You might not use confidential information to formulate and disseminate an opinion on NVIDIA tech, but then the burden is on you to prove otherwise, once you sign that contract. NVIDIA could use attempts at enforcement of the contract to stifle your ability to speak freely. They can use bogus claims of NDA violation to drag you into court, forcing you to pay for expensive lawyers, and potentially bankrupt you. I have no idea of whether or not they would do so, since you're fairly high profile in the enthusiast world and it could turn into a PR disaster for them, but who knows??
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 21, 2018
  12. tungt88

    tungt88 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Voted No. Heck No. Am planning to donate more to the Patreon.
     
  13. Vega

    Vega [H]ardness Supreme

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    I saw the GPU's but not the NVLink.
     
  14. Moogle Stiltzkin

    Moogle Stiltzkin Gawd

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    if hardocp is not allowed to be truthful about any issues, then that would transform the site to merely propaganda for marketing. then what then would be the point of doing the review? fuk nvidia, don't sign it :}

    nvidia is getting a lot of flak recently for their anti consumer behavior and rightly so. stick to your guns and don't go along with this bs of an nda.
     
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  15. Viper87227

    Viper87227 [H]ard as it Gets

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    My guess is it's a lot more than a day late. Someone step up and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd assume samples get provided early enough that reviews can be published launch day. Waiting on retail cards, you're waiting until launch day for then to ship, a day or two from there before they are in your hands, and then you're working like mad to publish as quickly as possible without sacrificing quality. How long does a GPU review take? A week? More? My guess is that by waiting for retail availability, your more realistically a week to two weeks behind everyone else.
     
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  16. Baenwort

    Baenwort Limp Gawd

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    I'm going to read your review if it is launch day or a week later. My purchasing isn't so urgent that I can't wait. I come here for the quality and integrity of the reviews. Not the timelyness.
     
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  17. MrC4

    MrC4 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Voted no, and would love the opportunity to buy one of the tested cards with a signature from Kyle and Brent on it!
     
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  18. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

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    upload_2018-8-21_12-43-19.png
     
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  19. DooKey

    DooKey [H]ardness Supreme

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    I can't say yes or no. I guess it depends on what pays the bills. Unfortunately that's what it comes down to. This site needs to stay in business because it brings the best reviews and opinion to the PC Hardware/Gaming world on the internet. I know you'll make the right decision for you and this site.
     
  20. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

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    We would likely be 7 to 10 days behind the day we took delivery on the cards. I do not know when embargo on reviews is. So somewhere around Oct. 1 at the best.
     
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  21. Bowman15

    Bowman15 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I voted yes. These websites are not made out of money and you can see the results of that the last couple of years. It's easy to say "no" when your not the one footing the bill and this is your living. If it doesn't prevent him from having an honest review and he keeps his integrity why not?
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
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  22. LigTasm

    LigTasm [H]ardness Supreme

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    My vote was also a NO. I have a tab open on [H] all the time, I do not have tabs open on other sites unless I specifically go looking for them. I like to read the reviews here because they make sense in presentation and I don't have to worry about the integrity. Usually when I compare my own results [H] and GN are the closest to the real world conditions I see so I have no problem waiting a few days.

    The caveat to this is obviously if the business suffers and you have to do it, no [H]ard feelings.
     
  23. Stryker7314

    Stryker7314 Limp Gawd

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  24. 0x4452

    0x4452 n00b

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    Does the NDA require to omit negative analysis of the cards? My understanding it is that it is mostly about preventing leaks.

    If HardOCP does not sign the NVIDIA NDA, then the same needs to be done for AMD's one. I feel AMD has been given a bit of free slack around here, mostly due to lack of negative press. Both companies do things right and wrong. NVIDIA seems to be screwing more on the non-tech side, while AMD - the opposite, as in example the excessive Radeon 480 power consumption.
     
  25. Iching

    Iching [H]ard|Gawd

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    NDA is NDA. Sign it and abide by it. This isn't Mexico.
     
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  26. Relampago

    Relampago n00b

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    The problem is the CI clause is too broad. It does not just include information they provide him but information that could be gleaned from product they provide him as well.

    For example if he finds a critical flaw in his sample I believe this NDA may prevent him from reporting on/disclosing that flaw.
     
  27. Elios

    Elios [H]ardness Supreme

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    silly not too do it build some bridges back with nV
     
  28. NeoNemesis

    NeoNemesis 2[H]4U

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    I check HardOCP daily, if the NDA is just about preventing leaks prior to product launch I'm okay with it. If it's prevents you from putting out an honest and unbiased review I'm against it. If you think you can retain your journalist integrity after signing the NDA than by all means do so.
     
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  29. Concillian

    Concillian Limp Gawd

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    I don't think forum users can adequately answer the question. It's a question of is the potential loss of integrity worth $4xxx in 2080Tis. I don't have the budgetary context for the site to adequately answer that. The opinions here will help with understanding the value of the potential restrictions of the NDA. If it comes out no, and Kyle decides to skip signing the NDA, then this old guy will figure out how to use Patreon and cough up some support for the decision. Not a huge amount, but if enough people give a drop in the bucket, we may make the decision less painful. Personally I'm more of a 580 / 1060 price level gamer, but still I really value that [H] strives to remain as independent as possible in a day and age where Many sites have "sold out" to larger conglomerates.
     
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  30. Elf_Boy

    Elf_Boy 2[H]4U

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    I am not the one signing the legal contract so I do not see it being right to be saying yes you should or no you should not.

    I'd be nice to see reviews and have you mending fences with the Green Eye of Envy, however you need to decide if this is worth the cost, not us.
     
  31. rbarr110

    rbarr110 Limp Gawd

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    Put the fate of your site/business in the hands of your lawyers advice for you to make the judgement call. It is easy for everyone to tell you to take a path that doesn't cost them anything, in the end it's your money and conscience to do what you think is best for the long haul.
     
  32. DNMock

    DNMock Limp Gawd

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    If your attorney is advising against signing it, DONT SIGN IT!

    Simple as that.

    Besides, maybe you can get your hands on someone elses review sample and put your review out before the embargo is lifted.
     
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  33. bigdogchris

    bigdogchris [H]ard as it Gets

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    I voted Yes. Even though I disagree with how Nvidia handled GPP, I always appreciate what [H] does more than my distaste for Nvidia's recent actions. Having access to their product lineup free of charge will help this site so therefor I support signing the NDA.

    At this point, taking an anti-Nvidia stance, or whatever some forum members here may want, doesn't make sense. Most other major players on the Internet are sharing in equal opportunity with Nvidia products. Most people are smart enough to see through BS reviews. Voting No is putting other interest ahead of long-term success for this site.
     
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  34. scojer

    scojer [H]ardness Supreme

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    I vote no.
    You've already got the order in.
     
  35. Uhhh YES they did. [H] was left out of all inside press information and press presentations.

    The only reason they are approving him now is because he will be forced to wear a gag order where he can only praise NVIDIA. That's free press coverage for them and it silences any negativity which might get passed around the web like the GPP program did.
     
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  36. fadedlogic

    fadedlogic Limp Gawd

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    You have spent decades building your brand and reputation as THE place for no bullshit, thorough reviews. I voted No prior to reading your attorney's feedback, now I am reassured in my decision. Any NDA/Contract comes down to the language and definitions, the more nebulous they are the more issues that arise from differences in interpretation and in in turn lengthy and expensive litigation. A 5 year NDA is completely out of bounds given the brief life cycle of technology. The internet is littered with noise and the signal is getting tougher to find; please remain a bastion of independence. I have stepped up and signed up to your Patreon.

    Awful lot of opinions in here, but looking at the Patreon page, not a lot of people supporting your great work; I was one of them prior to today. Here's hoping you maintain your journalistic independence and this serves as a torrent of new patreon subscribers.
     
  37. Brian_B

    Brian_B 2[H]4U

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    Another thought - you could always ask nVidia to accept edits to the NDA. They can always say no, but I don't know of many legal documents that aren't up for some discussion/negotiation.

    Of course, the fact that you already purchased cards (and would likely continue to do so) means nVidia probably wouldn't be terribly inclined to accept edits, but who knows. Whatever their response to the request would be would probably speak more than anything nVidia would come out and say directly otherwise.
     
  38. DPI

    DPI Nitpick Police

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    Proof? "They didnt reply to his email" is not proof I'm afraid. And what press info and presentations .. for which products? There havent been new cards to speak of until yesterday.

    Highlight in the NDA where it mandates praise. I'll wait.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
  39. luke51087

    luke51087 2[H]4U

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    I would sign it save your self the money and do your normal review.
     
  40. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

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    Uh yes. NVIDIA has cut us off from all communication and RTX press exposure.
     
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