NVIDIA Adaptive VSync Technology Review @ [H]

I've been waiting for this from y'all even before you wrote it,... got some time off and page is down it seems.:(
 
Yep...until AMD implements this into their Radeon cards...I'll be sticking with Nvidia...really makes a difference :)

hopefully lower end kepler cards come soon :)
 
evilsofa said:
I just did some testing with the game I happen to be playing tl;dr: Games can tear badly below the monitor refresh rate, and when they do, Adaptive Vsync sucks.
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Enable normal vsync if you'd like to avoid tearing at all costs.
 
cannondale06 said:
again you have no idea what you are talking about. you can claim that forcing it on from CCC has always worked but you are flat out wrong. ever since Vista forcing vsync from CCC has rarely worked and that is a fact.
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Alright, I stuck a video on Youtube showing VSync forced from the CCC with no tearing or jumping. Upon playing around a bit, it appears we were both half-right. My experience is this:
  • VSync forced in the CCC + in-game VSync OFF = no vsync, lots of tearing
  • VSync set to "application" in the CCC + in-game VSync ON = VSync with frame rate jumping
  • VSync forced in the CCC + in-game VSync ON = no tearing, no frame rate jumping

I suppose I've just always habitually set it to "on" in both the CCC and in my games, and it's always worked just as I described, just like back the old days with Direct3D Overrider. Your mileage may vary I suppose, but here's the proof that I am not just pulling this out of my bum:

http://youtu.be/6bdClGg-N14
 
evilsofa said:
the myth that no tearing occurs below a monitor's refresh rate is false..[/B]
Click to expand...

Ummm...ok...I guess I will agree, the only time I ever see tearing is when the FPS is actually below the refresh rate and vsync is disabled.

The problem I have with vsync is it causes video lag when fps does go low, simply because its buffering video. (I would rather have tearing than lag).
 
XTF said:
Enable normal vsync if you'd like to avoid tearing at all costs.
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Agreed.

If you hate tearing so much that avoiding it is your priority no matter what, then enable normal vsync,

Adaptive vsync is an acknowledgement that people prefer to avoid tearing, but if they have to choose between tearing and a significant frame rate drop, they'll usually chose to ahve some tearing, and avoid dropping their frame rates a lot.
 
The Resident said:
I care, and you are right, although I suspect it was just the wrong choice of words. I think we all understand the 60 -> 30 -> 20 -> 15 downward spiral.
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Sadly, editors don't understand facts. This is just one of many blatant inaccuracies in recent articles. Yay, southern ignorance! =)
 
Daemos said:
Yep...until AMD implements this into their Radeon cards...I'll be sticking with Nvidia...really makes a difference :)

hopefully lower end kepler cards come soon :)
Click to expand...

again, this is available now via virtua mvp on ivy bridge boards (even with sandy bridge processors) and from all the benchmarks ive seen, the virtua solution is faster, does more, and works with both ati and nvidia.
 
Faster? The Anandtech article seemed to indicate there was a small performance penalty, and it's very software dependant and doesn't work with every game (unlike NV's solution)... It might be more eelegant on a technical level but it looks like it's lagging in execution. I have two HD6950s and I'd rather have NV's adaptive Vsync, specially when it can be added at the driver level and doesn't require a new mono. I hope AMD isn't banking on Virtu here...
 
Excellent article as always. I have found that Assassin's Creed 2 doesn't work well with Adaptive VSync but Brotherhood does (some random tearing though). Most games I've tested it with do work well with it at least.
 
It seems some games work better with Adaptive on than others do. I still get tearing using it, but its worse in certain games.
 
Just tried a couple of things with my 120Hz monitor:

VSync off = tearing
Adaptive VSync = tearing
Adaptive VSync (half refresh rate) = no tearing

Can anyone explain why?
 
yo han said:
Just tried a couple of things with my 120Hz monitor:

VSync off = tearing
Adaptive VSync = tearing
Adaptive VSync (half refresh rate) = no tearing

Can anyone explain why?
Click to expand...
its simple. you cant maintain 120fps so of course its going to tear with adaptive vsync on. with half refresh rate all you need is 60fps which you must be getting since there is no tearing.
 
yo han said:
Ah OK thanks. So anything below 60 and I will get tearing again?
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with adaptive vsync you will get tearing below refresh rate. if you have it set to half refresh rate then you will get tearing when you are below half of your refresh rate.
 
Thanks again.
Then the author of the article on adaptive vsync, Brent Justice, made some mistakes when writing his article on HardOCP:
"Note that tearing only occurs if the framerate exceeds the refresh rate, so if all your performance is under 60 FPS, you won't see tearing even with VSync off. Or, if you have one of those new 120Hz displays, you generally won't see tearing, as long as the game isn't rendering over 120 FPS."
Which is not true.
And:
"The fifth option Adaptive (half refresh rate) will probably rarely be used."
Probably every owner of a 120Hz monitor will use this option unless you're able to get constant framerates above 120FPS.
 
I still haven't gotten a straight answer on this.

If nearly every game supports triple buffering, which means you can get a smooth (not drop to a GCM of monitor refresh rate) experience without adaptive vsync and the sometimes-tearing there, why use adaptive v-sync at all?

Okay, yes, input lag, but wouldn't you then get input lag when vsync toggles back on once you're up to monitor refresh rate?

If someone could help me with this I'd be very happy.
 
Triple buffering doesn't work natively on Direct3D. You have to force it in some fashion (ie, not through the control panel).
 
Forceman said:
Triple buffering doesn't work natively on Direct3D. You have to force it in some fashion (ie, not through the control panel).
Click to expand...

I haven't run into a game that doesn't work with it through the game itself or the control panel in... ever. I know they're out there, but quite rare it seems.
 
Ranguvar said:
I haven't run into a game that doesn't work with it through the game itself or the control panel in... ever. I know they're out there, but quite rare it seems.
Click to expand...
some games already have it built in but most do not. and turning it on from the control panel does nothing fro Direct X games.
 
Ranguvar said:
I haven't run into a game that doesn't work with it through the game itself or the control panel in... ever. I know they're out there, but quite rare it seems.
Click to expand...

I don't know about AMD, but the Nvidia control panel option is for OpenGL only. So turning it on there does nothing for the vast majority of games.
 
Okay, you may say that -- but again, I haven't found a game that locks to 20fps / 30fps / 60fps in Vsync, ever.

Can you give me actual names? And is this also you saying that yes, adaptive vsync has no worth except when dealing with games that won't work with triple buffering?
 
Ranguvar said:
Okay, you may say that -- but again, I haven't found a game that locks to 20fps / 30fps / 60fps in Vsync, ever.

Can you give me actual names? And is this also you saying that yes, adaptive vsync has no worth except when dealing with games that won't work with triple buffering?
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I have mentioned this many times before but the framerate being shown on the screen is not always giving you the exact up to the second result. if you look at the actual frame render times then you will see that games do drop to 30 from 60 most of the time if you cant maintain 60 fps with vsync on in a game without triple buffering. and again, forcing triple buffering from the Nvidia control panel or AMD CCC does NOTHING for DX games.
 
As I said earlier, frame counters display the averaged frame times of multiple frames. They cannot be relied upon as accurate tools to determine one's actual current frame rate.

You cannot be in a scenario where you're double-buffered and using vertical sync and somehow 'beat the system' whereby the frame time will not increase by 1000/refresh rate milliseconds if said frame misses the swap interval. Can't be done.
 
So is there any reliable way to detect a triple buffered game? Perhaps we could make a list of titles that don't have it, requiring D3DOveridder or adaptive vsync?
 
Try Pix. It's a tool bundled with the DirectX SDK (and now integrated into VS11) that can monitor Direct3D calls, which you can use to determine whether an application is starting up with triple buffering or not. There's a comparable program available for OpenGL, whose name escapes me.
 
triple buffering with VSync is very bad for input lag and results in unplayable games (does not matter if Nvidia Adaptive VSync is on or not as the triple buffering messes every thing up)

I had no issues with double buffing with VSync+ Nvidia Adaptive VSync, works very well
 
I started playing around with A-vsync more last night and I never really thought about how much extra work the video card was doing. On most games my 680 was running at about 75% GPU usage or less, when it used to run at 100% all the time. Even BF3 was running in the 80s - realized I had some room to turn the settings up a little more.
 
Some games are just too unplayable with the input lag. Games such as CSGO, Tribes Ascend, and Quake Live are unbearable for me. I have tried several times, but just cant do it. What I want to know is how valve games manage to run at 250 - 300FPS without any noticeable tearing while I framerate lock BF3 at 60FPS and it has much more tearing than most games? Now that I think about it, those 3 specific games GSGO between 250 - 300FPS, TA at 90FPS (perhaps some here on occasion), and Quake Live at 125FPS are all smooth as butter without any tearing. Are there techniques being used that other developers dont know about.
 
I don't have any noticeable input lag or tearing using Adaptive Vsync in BF3.

I don't know the answer to your other questions though :(
 
RCantw3ll said:
Are there techniques being used that other developers dont know about.
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We can only control when our frames are being pushed out, which means we have the capability to limit the frame rate. We can't do any kind of synchronization to the display without vertical sync — that's a functionality not exposed in the APIs. We have the choice to say "yes" or "no" with respect to synchronization.

The type of content does matter, though. The higher the contrast in a scene, and the more motion going on (where the difference in content between frames is significant), the more tearing is going to be visible. BF3 is very fast-paced and high-contrast, so it's no wonder that tearing is so annoying to you while playing it.
 
likeman said:
triple buffering with VSync is very bad for input lag and results in unplayable games (does not matter if Nvidia Adaptive VSync is on or not as the triple buffering messes every thing up)

I had no issues with double buffing with VSync+ Nvidia Adaptive VSync, works very well
Click to expand...

Before Adaptive, I always played with VSync+Triple Buffering. Nascar, Doom 3, Quake 4, Half-Life 2, Far Cry 1&2, Crysis, BioShock, Oblivion. Never had any serious problems with input lag. Certainly not unplayable. Did have the sudden framerate-halving chugging in heavy workload scenes, though, which thanks to Adaptive are now bye-bye.
 
RCantw3ll said:
Some games are just too unplayable with the input lag. Games such as CSGO, Tribes Ascend, and Quake Live are unbearable for me. I have tried several times, but just cant do it. What I want to know is how valve games manage to run at 250 - 300FPS without any noticeable tearing while I framerate lock BF3 at 60FPS and it has much more tearing than most games? Now that I think about it, those 3 specific games GSGO between 250 - 300FPS, TA at 90FPS (perhaps some here on occasion), and Quake Live at 125FPS are all smooth as butter without any tearing. Are there techniques being used that other developers dont know about.
Click to expand...

I remember HL2 tearing a lot... Just because it was one of the first times I noticed heavy tearing.
 
With adaptive vsync on what would be best for Maximum pre-rendered frames? I used to always have it at 3 w/out vsync but now I am not sure.

Also, in BF3 and such where my fps would be all over or high I am surprised it's not a constant 60fps. I honestly thought this would be less taxing on the system since people say it requires less energy but I see my fps drop to in the 40s a lot?
 
SpongeBob said:
With adaptive vsync on what would be best for Maximum pre-rendered frames? I used to always have it at 3 w/out vsync but now I am not sure.
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I'd like to see an extensive review of this setting as well. I've heard a LOT of speculation as to which settings give you smoother gameplay, on completely opposite sides (i.e., some people say set it to 0, some say 8, etc.). Personally I've tried 0, 3, and 8 and have never really seen a noticeable difference.
 
I have never seen the pre-rendered frames setting do anything except in one rare case. with Bioshock there were several bad drivers in a row and the only way to make that game play without stuttering was to to put that setting at 0.
 
MavericK96 said:
I'd like to see an extensive review of this setting as well. I've heard a LOT of speculation as to which settings give you smoother gameplay, on completely opposite sides (i.e., some people say set it to 0, some say 8, etc.). Personally I've tried 0, 3, and 8 and have never really seen a noticeable difference.
Click to expand...

Hey Kyle or other reviewers any chance of seeing some research into this?
 
Installed these new beta NV drivers H reviewed,
all went well, games work fine but
Adaptive Vsync is not choosable from drop down box,
it even has the description of it below when you mouse over,
but it's not there to choose and apply

any ideas?
 
The-Tmann said:
Installed these new beta NV drivers H reviewed,
all went well, games work fine but
Adaptive Vsync is not choosable from drop down box,
it even has the description of it below when you mouse over,
but it's not there to choose and apply

any ideas?
Click to expand...
and what would your hardware be?
 
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