New Samsung 4k for everyone.

jstabb

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Feb 7, 2014
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8
jstabb and SGSeeker...any idea why Samsung would go with such a low PWM frequency? I can't imagine it costing more (or at least not much more) to make it > 1000 Hz, or even DC for flicker free backlighting.

Even if they did some research and found that most people aren't sensitive to PWM and wouldn't even notice a rate of 120 Hz, it doesn't make much sense to me why they wouldn't hedge on the safe side and go higher.

I'm using a backlight setting of 5...no inability to produce an erection so far, anyway. :D
Who knows. The cynic in me says it's most likely due to cost reasons. The wear and tear from switching on/off is 10x more with a PWM rate > 1000hz, which would require higher spec'd parts.

But, the fact that it's 120hz PWM on a 120hz panel seems like more than a coincidence. I'm guessing the PWM pulse is time aligned with the panel refresh.

Which means:
1) You get a LightBoost like effect for reducing eye-tracking motion blur.
2) The "off" cycle is time aligned with the transition of the shutters in the 3D glasses. (This benefit is probably moot, because 3D mode should be running at max backlight to begin with.)

*shrug* Only a Samsung engineer could say for sure.

Note: The above applies to the 7 series, the 6 series with its supposed 60hz panel would not receive as much of a benefit in the motion blur reduction and obviously, has no 3D capabilities.

Also, I like your tolerance criteria. If it doesn't cause ED, it's good enough for me! :)
 

TheDarkTao

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For days I have been worried since there has been no software updates... since they used to be out every few days... I was heading for bed and POOF new 1214 update on my un50ju6500....


Anyone else? I did notice they changed one thing... seems to be NO more support for 4:4:4 on dvi/PC instead PC only. Interestingly enough, it switched my input type from DVI/PC to PC. So I didnt notice till I went back to check in source. Also! They changed it so it does not reset eco mode after software update! NICE ; )

Looking forward to the tests!
 

Mako360

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Mar 1, 2006
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336
For days I have been worried since there has been no software updates... since they used to be out every few days... I was heading for bed and POOF new 1214 update on my un50ju6500....

Man, you girls worry if there ARE firmware updates and you worry if there AREN'T firmware updates...yeesh, enjoy the set and stop all the pearl-clutching.
 

zero101

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May 14, 2015
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Also a bit dissapointed in this being called a glossy. I thought It would be glossy like this https://discussions.apple.com/___sbsstatic___/migration-images/173/17395089-1.jpg , Apple glossy screens have some of the best pop I've ever seen out of a display. This Samsung is just like my old Seiki, which I consider semi gloss. I thought it would have a slab of glass over it for that pop.

How is the Samsung JU 6.x.x.x serie ? compared to Philips 4k monitor
Glossy ? Semi gloss ? Annoying ?
 

Brahmzy

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Messages
4,958
I didn't care for the semi-gloss on my 6700. Felt like it had this constant glow reflecting back at me from any ambient light source. My 7500 doesn't have that. So for me, the 7500's full gloss is the best.
Personally, I wish it was a matte AG finish.
 

Cyph

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Messages
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Matte finish kills clarity and color, I hate it. :)

Also, in other news, Orca, the developer of Plex for Samsung has started work on Migrating his client over to Tizen. He's asking for donations so if anyone wants it, throw him a few bucks. Hopefully we get it soon. It really is the best Plex client on any platform.
 

igluk

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I'm very interested to hear how your PWM mod goes, but your explanation of PWM duty cycle is incorrect. The frequency of the pulse does not change with duty cycle (DC), only its width.

So for a 120hz PWM signal, the pulse cycles 120 times per second, or every 8.3ms.
At 100% DC that 8.3ms pulse is on for all 8.3ms.
At 50% DC it's on for 4.15ms and off for 4.15ms.
At 25% DC it's on for 2.075ms and off for 6.225ms.

So the rate of flicker does not change, it just becomes more pronounced as the percentage of time the pulse is "off" increases.

I just verified this behavior on my 40JU7500, it pulses at 120hz at 0, 10, and 20 backlight levels.

Interesting, the X850C TV allows adjustment of the pulse width while retaining frequency of 120hz.
Rtings posted pictures down in the QA section of their Review, it also shows how it compares to the JU7100.
 

Brahmzy

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I have specifically wondered if Samsung has made changes to it's PWM in recent firmware. Out of the box, both the 6700 & 7500 were barely tolerable for me from weeks of usage without getting better. Now, I am able to stare at the thing all day long with minimal issues. The change was almost overnight. I cannot explain it. I mean I was getting headaches, nausea, the whole nine. Now, I'm fine. What gives? You don't "get used to" something like that overnight.
 

Brahmzy

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So F/W 1214 is waiting to be flashed to my 1210 40JU7500... what say the clan?
 

Andrew_WOT

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May 15, 2015
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Who knows. The cynic in me says it's most likely due to cost reasons. The wear and tear from switching on/off is 10x more with a PWM rate > 1000hz, which would require higher spec'd parts.

But, the fact that it's 120hz PWM on a 120hz panel seems like more than a coincidence. I'm guessing the PWM pulse is time aligned with the panel refresh.
Silly question, but aren't 7 series featuring 240Hz refresh rate, wouldn't PWM match that?
Did anyone take actual PMW measurements on these series, I looked online reviews for this info to no avail.
 

Cyph

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Interesting, the X850C TV allows adjustment of the pulse width while retaining frequency of 120hz.
Rtings posted pictures down in the QA section of their Review, it also shows how it compares to the JU7100.

I think this refers to the black frame insertion rather than the PWM backlight.

Silly question, but aren't 7 series featuring 240Hz refresh rate, wouldn't PWM match that?
Did anyone take actual PMW measurements on these series, I looked online reviews for this info to no avail.

That's their fake hertz with interpolation. The real refresh is only 120hz. To be honest, I have no reaction to PWM and I was feeling ill at the beginning to. Being so close to a gigantic monitor was probably the reason, not the PWM. I am fine now that I've gotten used to it. Based on the unscientific poll in this thread, 1 out of 10 seems to "feel" the effect. There is absolutely no way that 10% of the population are allergic to PWM. So I'm not sure who actually feels it physically and who's all mental. :rolleyes:
 

zero101

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May 14, 2015
Messages
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Matte finish kills clarity and color, I hate it. :)

Also, in other news, Orca, the developer of Plex for Samsung has started work on Migrating his client over to Tizen. He's asking for donations so if anyone wants it, throw him a few bucks. Hopefully we get it soon. It really is the best Plex client on any platform.

so, that means, reflecting displays are better for colors and clarity?
 

Nenu

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Matte finishes absorb light from all directions which wash out the image a little.
 

Wiz33

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How is the Samsung JU 6.x.x.x serie ? compared to Philips 4k monitor
Glossy ? Semi gloss ? Annoying ?

All depends on you environment and the amount of ambient light source and directions they are coming from. In my case, in a room where there is a window (with blinds) on the right. During daylight when there is some light leaks from the blinds, the 7500 is more reflective then the 6700 but no worse than the full glossy Crossover that I was using before. In the evening, I would say there's no difference between the 2. The Samsung is at home so it's mostly used in the evening except on weekends so it's OK. If I have to do a lot of work during the day, I would probably prefer the 6700. The 6700 semi gloss is not like a matte finish at all, color pops a lot more than the matte finish on the Acer B326HK at the office. I honestly don't think there's that much difference between the 6700 and 7500.
 

Wiz33

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For days I have been worried since there has been no software updates... since they used to be out every few days... I was heading for bed and POOF new 1214 update on my un50ju6500....


Anyone else? I did notice they changed one thing... seems to be NO more support for 4:4:4 on dvi/PC instead PC only. Interestingly enough, it switched my input type from DVI/PC to PC. So I didnt notice till I went back to check in source. Also! They changed it so it does not reset eco mode after software update! NICE ; )

Looking forward to the tests!

Did they do anything about the PC windows getting truncated and stacked when the TV is turned off or if you change input source problem? I know there is a registry hack for that but I don't won't to mess with that if I don't have to.
 

mikeo

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May 17, 2006
Messages
660
Stacked and resized in the upper left window? My seiki did that too so I think it's a thing with some Nvidia cards, my Panasonic doesn't have that issue but it is being driven by ATI cards over DP.
 

Cyph

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Mar 24, 2015
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Did they do anything about the PC windows getting truncated and stacked when the TV is turned off or if you change input source problem? I know there is a registry hack for that but I don't won't to mess with that if I don't have to.

That's a Windows issue and not a firmware issue. So it will never be fixed if that's what you're waiting for.
 

TDSlam720

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So I didn't feel like waiting for a new HDMI cable so I went to best buy and paid the knot for a 4 ft Rocketfish, rated at 18 GBps. Still getting the flickering issue in 4k. 1080 is fine, and 4k at 30hz no issues, but 60hz flickering like crazy. Dunno if there's something wrong with this TV or the connector box maybe?


Also Game mode with 0 sharpness looks light years more crisp than PC mode with 50 sharpness.

Right now I'm running 1214, RGB Full in Game mode on HDMI 1 at 30hz and contrast and color is much improved. Doesn't looked washed as fuck right now. Contrast still isn't as high as my Seiki , but its good. Before It looked like 1000-1500, now looks more like 1500-3000.

Just wish I could figure out by I cant push full bandwidth at 60hz. I even tried 60hz in game mode thinking maybe the 4:4:4 was too much, but same thing. Maybe less frequent flickering though.



Edit: 50hz game mode is somewhat stable. Only a small flicker every now and again. No black screen drop outs.

Edit 2: Nevermind, some black screen dropouts. Just not as frequent.
 
Last edited:

Cyph

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So I didn't feel like waiting for a new HDMI cable so I went to best buy and paid the knot for a 4 ft Rocketfish, rated at 18 GBps. Still getting the flickering issue in 4k. 1080 is fine, and 4k at 30hz no issues, but 60hz flickering like crazy. Dunno if there's something wrong with this TV or the connector box maybe?


Also Game mode with 0 sharpness looks light years more crisp than PC mode with 50 sharpness.

Right now I'm running 1214, RGB Full in Game mode on HDMI 1 at 30hz and contrast and color is much improved. Doesn't looked washed as fuck right now. Contrast still isn't as high as my Seiki , but its good. Before It looked like 1000-1500, now looks more like 1500-3000.

Just wish I could figure out by I cant push full bandwidth at 60hz. I even tried 60hz in game mode thinking maybe the 4:4:4 was too much, but same thing. Maybe less frequent flickering though.



Edit: 50hz game mode is somewhat stable. Only a small flicker every now and again. No black screen drop outs.

Edit 2: Nevermind, some black screen dropouts. Just not as frequent.

Find a 3ft HDMI cable. I bet you it will resolve your issue.
 

Lateralus

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Did they do anything about the PC windows getting truncated and stacked when the TV is turned off or if you change input source problem? I know there is a registry hack for that but I don't won't to mess with that if I don't have to.

Dunno why, but I haven't had that issue lately. When I turn on my 48JU7500, windows are exactly as I left them. It did re-size and re-position them for a while, though.
 
Joined
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Messages
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whats consensus on firmware, my tv has version 1201, are there any reasons to upgrade? Also for TDSlam720, I have the same rocketfish cable and had no issues with it. currently using a 9ft sams club hdmi and it is workin fine also. this is with an msi 970.
 

rufio

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C'mon, guys :)
I have to pull the trigger

I came from a Dell 3007WFP IPS screen (albeit an old CCFL backlit one). I make about 30% of my income from photography work, and the JU6500 has much better color reproduction once semi-calibrated than my old fully calibrated screen did. I would be shocked if you were not impressed with the color.
 

mikeo

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I came from a Dell 3007WFP IPS screen (albeit an old CCFL backlit one). I make about 30% of my income from photography work, and the JU6500 has much better color reproduction once semi-calibrated than my old fully calibrated screen did. I would be shocked if you were not impressed with the color.

Would you be able to share your calibration settings?
 

Cyph

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whats consensus on firmware, my tv has version 1201, are there any reasons to upgrade? Also for TDSlam720, I have the same rocketfish cable and had no issues with it. currently using a 9ft sams club hdmi and it is workin fine also. this is with an msi 970.

I always update to the latest firmware. Game mode looks way better with the latest firmware.
 

Cyph

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Dunno why, but I haven't had that issue lately. When I turn on my 48JU7500, windows are exactly as I left them. It did re-size and re-position them for a while, though.

Try switching your source and back while it's on. Windows default to 720P when it doesn't know what monitor it's connected to. You can edit the value to default to 2160P.
 

zero101

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I came from a Dell 3007WFP IPS screen (albeit an old CCFL backlit one). I make about 30% of my income from photography work, and the JU6500 has much better color reproduction once semi-calibrated than my old fully calibrated screen did. I would be shocked if you were not impressed with the color.

I guess you're right, but i'm between Philips BDM4065UC monitor and Samsung UE40JU6450
Very very hard to make the right choice
 

TDSlam720

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whats consensus on firmware, my tv has version 1201, are there any reasons to upgrade? Also for TDSlam720, I have the same rocketfish cable and had no issues with it. currently using a 9ft sams club hdmi and it is workin fine also. this is with an msi 970.

Weird I have an MSI 970 as well, just got it a week ago, and was thinking the issue might be the card itself.

Found this thread in which a couple people replaced their cards and it was fixed. Some people used multiple cards and had the same issue

https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=184628.0

I only have PCIE 2.0 ... I doubt that's the issue but maybe?
 

rinaldo00

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Did they do anything about the PC windows getting truncated and stacked when the TV is turned off or if you change input source problem? I know there is a registry hack for that but I don't won't to mess with that if I don't have to.

Look for programs called WindowLock or WindowManager. They were made to fix this problem,
 

Cyph

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I updated to 1214. Everything feels snappier, especially the Smarthub and source selection. Placebo?
 

mikeo

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I got mine running nice now on firmware 1005 with the blacklight set to 20, contrast 93, brightness 43, sharpness 50, pc input, gamma -2, HDMI black level normal, and a windows profile that corrects all the TV settings changes so it looks normal again, using the avs 709 calibration guide.

It feels much better on the eyes when reading but I ran into a problem, every time I power off the monitor, HDMI black levels get reset from normal to auto and it crushes any black details, anyone have a solution or should I upgrade the firmware and potentially introduce more input lag?

Edit: enabling the instant on feature seems to make the setting persistent, for now...
 

zero101

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46
What about the colors between Philips 4k monitor and Samsung JU 6.x.x.x ?
Colors, contrast, brightness, sharpness, clarity.
I have to order it today, Samsung or Philips
Thank you, again.
 

shadow85

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What about the colors between Philips 4k monitor and Samsung JU 6.x.x.x ?
Colors, contrast, brightness, sharpness, clarity.
I have to order it today, Samsung or Philips
Thank you, again.

I think this will come down to personal preference, I don't think there is a clear winner here.

Have you checked out pcmonitor's review on the Philips, quoted by them:

"The glossy VA panel delivered some stunningly vivid colours with rich and accurate representation on the whole – with comprehensive sRGB coverage "

"Outstanding contrast performance with excellent deep and inky dark shades and bright and pure light shades"

"Good pixel responsiveness overall delivered one of the best gaming experience we’ve had from a VA panel without the widespread ‘smeary’ trails in games"

Like I said I think it will come down to personal preference because I hear both are very good. Why don't you go check each out at a store?
 
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