NCASE M1 version changelog and suggestions thread

v2 won't have the serial number. Those are exclusive to first editions.

Yay, collector's edition! I thought I recalled you saying that somewhere before, but couldn't find it (just where W360 was planning on having serials for prototype backers).

I personally wouldn't mind losing the exclusivity, if v2 had serials as well, but it's kinda neat I suppose.. just don't make the v2 revisions too awesome compared to v1, and it's a fair trade-off :)
 
possible to include a small, removable bracket to attach a vertical 2.5 ssd hard drive? for example

UCnTwdB.jpg


I figure 1 bracket would be plenty since ssd doesn't vibrate. but maybe something else could be done for two mounting points for platter hard drives or something too.
 
1 - I wish the finish was matte-black instead of brushed aluminium. As much as I like Lian-Li, I had a Lian-Li case the last six years and can't stand it anymore.

2 - I want to use an optical drive, an SSD and a 2,5'' HDD in that case without occupying one of the mounts at the bottom of the case. No problem, there is enough room for two 2,5'' drives next to the PSU, but if I put two 2,5'' drives there, 240mm radiator wouldn't fit anymore, right? Well, it should. Maybe you could design a (probably right-angled) bracket that can fit two 2,5'' drives in that corner of the case (one next to the front panel like it is now, one in front of the PSU).

3 - This case needs a PSU that is bigger than SFX but smaller than ATX. An "SFX+ PSU" so to say, that is 125mm deep instead of 100mm and can fit a 120mm fan. All other dimension should stay the same so that it still fits into the M1 (and most other SFF-cases). That would make the case perfect since it would eliminate one of the biggest drawbacks of the SFX form-factor.

I know it sounds crazy, but maybe that it something we can crowdfund as well. Take the Silverstone ST45SF-G as basis, keep the electronic components and design a chassis around them that has enough depth to fit a 120mm fan.

I'm actually a bit surprised that Silverstone hasn't thought about that yet. I'm fully aware that it is always risky to establish a new form-factor, but the SFF-market is growing and gaining more and more interest (right?), and Silverstone is one of the big players in that market. Who else could be better to do that than Silverstone?

Plus: It would make their SFF-cases even more interesting (since most of them could fit such an "SFX+" PSU). So, who knows, maybe, if we ask politely they accept a deal where we prove interest in such a PSU through a succesful kickstarter and they build the "ST45SF-G+" for us.

OR ... have you ever thought about delivering the case with a custom PSU? Let's say a custom ST45SF-G with the modification described above AND a set of cables that have the right length for the M1? Okay, that might be something to think about in a year or two, hoping that the production of the M1 becomes bigger.

Anyway: The NCASE M1 reaches a reating 98,9 percent on my "perfection" scale. If it had a matte-finish, the right-angled bracket for 2.5'' drives as described above (well, maybe I could build it myself) and if there was an "SFX+ PSU" (I know, that's not up to you), it was absolutely perfect.
 
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Wait? What? Silverstone already did what I was thinking about while I was falling in love with the M1?

I have heard that there's a new 600 watts SFX-PSU coming, but I have completely missed that Silverstone introduces a new form-factor with it as well. That's amazing! Bye-bye ATX, welcome my new SFX-overlord! I will never look back!

Thanks for the hint! This is a happy day!

Oh, before I forget it: Is there a way to get rid of the brushed alumimum and paint the case with a matte finish that looks professional? I wouldn't mind giving the front and side panels to a specialist and paying another 100 Euros for a professional paint job.
 
1 - I wish the finish was matte-black instead of brushed aluminium. As much as I like Lian-Li, I had a Lian-Li case the last six years and can't stand it anymore.

I second this, though the case looks fantastic still with the brushed finish IMO. I recall, however, that a sample from LL demonstrated that their sandblasted (matte) finish looked quite poor.

That, or it was too expensive - I'll update this post if I can find the reason in the main thread.

Sverebom, I guess you hadn't seen this SX500-LG yet?

Although I was excited when I first heard of this, in the M1 the PSU cabling would be right up against a long GPU. Still, a 120mm fan would have far better acoustics... So I do hope they make a 600W version of this, as they are doing for the traditional SFX form factor.
 
Although I was excited when I first heard of this, in the M1 the PSU cabling would be right up against a long GPU. Still, a 120mm fan would have far better acoustics... So I do hope they make a 600W version of this, as they are doing for the traditional SFX form factor.

Really? I have seen people stuffing a 140mm modular ATX-PSU into the M1 (if I'm not mistaken). Sure, an SFX-L PSU will be tight fit, but looking at the many photos I can't imagine that there would be a collision.

Please don't crush my dreams! I want to run a Geforce 760GTX (with a later upgrade to something high-end when "Star Citizen" reaches live-status) with an SFX-L PSU in the M1. I wouldn't mind a tight a fit as long as it does fit (I will mod the cables anyway to have the exact lengths I need).
 
Really? I have seen people stuffing a 140mm modular ATX-PSU into the M1 (if I'm not mistaken). Sure, an SFX-L PSU will be tight fit, but looking at the many photos I can't imagine that there would be a collision.

You can only fit non-modular 140mm ATX PSUs - the plugs for modular PSU's cause an intersection with a long graphics card... Which is to say that, although a 130mm modular SFX PSU should work, it's certainly going to be very tight, and require some sharp bends and clever routing of the cables.

Personally, I prefer sticking with the 600W SFX just for the breathing room, so long as the unit isn't terribly loud.
 
possible to include a small, removable bracket to attach a vertical 2.5 ssd hard drive? for example

IMG

I figure 1 bracket would be plenty since ssd doesn't vibrate. but maybe something else could be done for two mounting points for platter hard drives or something too.
Changes for v2 are basically dialed in now, so it's not something I'll be adding. Couple issues - one, there's less space available than in your image for the drive and connectors (would definitely need to be angled); and two, the drive would take up valuable space used by the PSU cables.

There are already three places to mount 2.5" drives built into the chassis, plus the stacking brackets which let you mount two drives to any of those mounts... do you really need a fourth place to put one?

1 - I wish the finish was matte-black instead of brushed aluminium. As much as I like Lian-Li, I had a Lian-Li case the last six years and can't stand it anymore.
We explored using a sandblasted finish early on, which included getting samples. Bottom line is that it's not an in-house process for Lian Li and would add something like $30-$40 to the end cost. The case is expensive as-is, and pushing it into mid-$200s before shipping/import fees would take it out of consideration for a lot of people.

A painted exterior might be an option, though it's not something we've looked into. Not sure how great the demand would be.

2 - I want to use an optical drive, an SSD and a 2,5'' HDD in that case without occupying one of the mounts at the bottom of the case. No problem, there is enough room for two 2,5'' drives next to the PSU, but if I put two 2,5'' drives there, 240mm radiator wouldn't fit anymore, right?
Depends. What radiator are you planning to use? The H220 rad has a res on the end, which makes it a bit longer than the typical 240mm rad, which only allows for a single 2.5" drive on the inside front. I believe most other rads do allow for two, though.

3 - This case needs a PSU that is bigger than SFX but smaller than ATX. An "SFX+ PSU" so to say, that is 125mm deep instead of 100mm and can fit a 120mm fan.
We approached several PSU companies early last year with exactly what you suggest, including High Power, which was the only one that sounded interested. In fact, it's quite likely our contact with them is what spurred the development of the model WiSK linked - it matches our proposed specs exactly. They just needed a 1000 unit MOQ to go ahead with it, IIRC. At the time, that was out of reach for our crowdfunding campaign - remember, we initially were just aiming to meet Lian Li's MOQ of 300 units for the M1. Trying to fund a PSU on top of that would've doubled the funding requirements, at least, and added all sorts of complications in terms of shipping and support. It's great to see SilverStone has picked it up though, so it'll make it to market after all.
 
Depends. What radiator are you planning to use?
I'm completely new to liquid coolers. For the moment I've noted the Corsair H100i as reference, but I haven't really looked deeper into the matter yet. I'm not interested in (extensive) overclocking or setting temperature records, so I'd go with any 240mm rad (preferably an all-in-one solution with a halfway decent pump) that fits, leaves enough room for two 2,5'' drives and can keep an Intel Xeon E3 cool.

I'll ask in the "main thread" for support concerning a rad that fits into my plan (unless you have a quick answer like "the H100i or any similar rad should fit").


They just needed a 1000 unit MOQ to go ahead with it, IIRC. At the time, that was out of reach for our crowdfunding campaign - remember, we initially were just aiming to meet Lian Li's MOQ of 300 units for the M1. ... It's great to see SilverStone has picked it up though, so it'll make it to market after all.
So it could still happen? That would be great. I'm sure that the M1 bundled with an SFX-L PSU "ready to be equipped" out of the box would be the perfect barebone for the SFF- and Steambox-fans out there. And now that you are preparing the second edition and Silverstone has understood the needs of the SFF-builders it might be even more likely to happen in two or three years :)

By the way, did you just confirm that the SX500-LG would fit into the M1? I mean you wouldn't have tried to get an SFX-L PSU bundled with the M1 if it wouldn't fit, right?
 
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We explored using a sandblasted finish early on, which included getting samples. Bottom line is that it's not an in-house process for Lian Li and would add something like $30-$40 to the end cost. The case is expensive as-is, and pushing it into mid-$200s before shipping/import fees would take it out of consideration for a lot of people.

Any idea what the pricing will be for the second run? Any different than the first? FWIW I would pay the extra cost for a sandblasted finish in a heartbeat - but I have no idea how many other people would do the same. Probably not enough :( But I can dream, can't I?
 
A painted exterior might be an option, though it's not something we've looked into. Not sure how great the demand would be.

I think Lian Li's black brushed anodizing looks great imo. It's nothing incredibly exciting or different, but this finish holds up very well. My PC-6099 is well over a decade old, and still looks identical to my new M1.

While new choices in finish are always welcome, at least it's something the customer can always get done at any time on their own (paint, re-anodizing, hydro-dipping, etc). Was really looking forward to v1 backers changing things up with custom paint, but don't recall anyone actually doing so.. probably cause the brushed finish looks pretty damn nice, as-is.

Changes for v2 are basically dialed in now

Will you be detailing the changes of v1 vs v2 for us, at some point?
 
I'm completely new to liquid coolers. For the moment I've noted the Corsair H100i as reference, but I haven't really looked deeper into the matter yet. I'm not interested in (extensive) overclocking or setting temperature records, so I'd go with any 240mm rad (preferably an all-in-one solution with a halfway decent pump) that fits, leaves enough room for two 2,5'' drives and can keep a Intel Xeon E3 cool.

I'll ask in the "main thread" for support concerning a rad that fits into my plan (unless you have a quick answer like "the H100i or any similar rad should fit").
Okay, I just checked with a Swiftech rad I have here that's 285mm long, and two 7mm thick SSDs in the v2 stacking bracket is a very tight fit - but it does fit. Most 240mm rads are around 275mm - including the H100i's - which means two drives shouldn't be a problem with it.


So it could still happen? That would be great. I'm sure that the M1 bundled with an SFX-L PSU "ready to be equipped" out of the box would be the perfect barebone for the SFF- and Steambox-fans out there. And now that you are preparing the second edition and Silverstone has understood the needs of the SFF-builders it might be even more likely to happen in two or three years :)
We're not planning on bundling a PSU with the case. For most people it would be probably be cheaper to get it through their local reseller than we could deliver it for, anyway.

By the way, did you just confirm that the SX500-LG would fit into the M1? I mean you would haven't tried to get a SFX-L PSU bundled with the M1 if it wouldn't fit, right?
This was back when we were exploring options, before the design was finalized. Given that, at the time, it didn't seem like 130mm long SFX would ever see the light of day, I didn't go out of my way to validate the design for it. Consequently, it "might but it'll be tight." Quick image to show what we're working with:



You can see there's very little space (approximately 14-15mm) between the modular plugs and the top of the GPU. The connectors themselves are 10mm long, which leaves hardly any space for the cables to bend. The one thing we have going for us is that there's some room for at least some of the cables to pass by the side of the GPU (same thing that allows non-modular 140mm ATX PSUs to fit), provided the PSUs fan is facing inward (based on the modular connector location in this pic).

Any idea what the pricing will be for the second run? Any different than the first?
About the same. Shipping costs may be different.

Will you be detailing the changes of v1 vs v2 for us, at some point?
Nearly all the changes are in the first post of this thread.
 
Nearly all the changes are in the first post of this thread.

Lol. Never thought to look there.. thanks!

Any chance that you guys will be selling just the extra clips, screws/washers, and the new shortened AC cable (or even a kit of all this) via the NCASE website?

Would be really nice for us v1 backers, and might even be helpful for v2 customers wanting spares.
 
Okay, I just checked with a Swiftech rad I have here that's 285mm long, and two 7mm thick SSDs in the v2 stacking bracket is a very tight fit - but it does fit. Most 240mm rads are around 275mm - including the H100i's - which means two drives shouldn't be a problem with it.
I want to use an SSD and a HDD though. 2.5'' HHDs are a bit thicker than SSDs, right? But with at least 100mm clearance I think should be no problem. I'll ask an H100i-owner for confirmation though.


You can see there's very little space (approximately 14-15mm) between the modular plugs and the top of the GPU. The connectors themselves are 10mm long, which leaves hardly any space for the cables to bend. The one thing we have going for us is that there's some room for at least some of the cables to pass by the side of the GPU (same thing that allows non-modular 140mm ATX PSUs to fit), provided the PSUs fan is facing inward (based on the modular connector location in this pic).
Thank you for taking the time to check that for me. However, my impression is that the chassis of the SX500-LG in fact 125mm deep and that the 130mm are the chassis plus the modular plugs. Have you taken that into consideration? Maybe we have 5mm more clearance than expected :)
 
Have you taken that into consideration? Maybe we have 5mm more clearance than expected :)

The wireframe diagram located on the forum post here seems to indicate that the 130mm measurement does not include the modular plugs.

That coupled with how thick the connectors seem to be makes me worry that it won't work in practice. But we won't know until someone can actually try.
 
After looking at the photos again I agree. Judging from your experience with Silverstone-PSUs is there any chance to "sunk" the plugs deeper into the chassis? I have always hated the Silverstone-plugs anyway.
 
Changes for v2 are basically dialed in now, so it's not something I'll be adding. Couple issues - one, there's less space available than in your image for the drive and connectors (would definitely need to be angled); and two, the drive would take up valuable space used by the PSU cables.

There are already three places to mount 2.5" drives built into the chassis, plus the stacking brackets which let you mount two drives to any of those mounts... do you really need a fourth place to put one?

yes, b/c if you have read my other posts, the other placements are pretty awful and inflexible. i even drew diagrams of why and how it was inflexible and how people would basically have to buy a whole new set of cables just to make it work. also if a person, such as myself, uses an optical drive that eliminated another spot. i'm not going to use the space on the bottom, if that was even another spot, b/c the usb header cables are too thick as it is. so the answer to your question is yes. i don't see what the big deal is in giving people more flexibility and more options by crating some holes for screws or a tiny slat of metal to affix there. it is a removable slat, if people want to use it or not that is their choice. i've already made a makeshift slat on my own and it fits pretty well with little issue. the main annoyance is the plug where the panel pops in, but thats about it. i'm not even using a modular psu and i have no problems with the cable routing.
 
yes, b/c if you have read my other posts, the other placements are pretty awful and inflexible.
I only recall your complaints about the outside front mount, in this post. Do you have issues with the inside front or bottom mounts? They can both be used with angled SATA cables, which seems to be your main issue.

i'm not going to use the space on the bottom, if that was even another spot, b/c the usb header cables are too thick as it is.
USB header cables? Not sure what they have to do with anything; the bottom 2.5" mount is at the back of the case - well away from the anywhere the USB cables need to be.

i don't see what the big deal is in giving people more flexibility and more options by crating some holes for screws or a tiny slat of metal to affix there.
The 'big deal' is that it's another thing to design and test, with potential ramifications to other parts of the design, and the usefulness, robustness and ease of use all seem a bit too dubious to warrant yet another small bracket with yet more tiny screws.
 
I want to use an SSD and a HDD though. 2.5'' HHDs are a bit thicker than SSDs, right? But with at least 100mm clearance I think should be no problem. I'll ask an H100i-owner for confirmation though.
You can fit two standard 9mm 2.5" drives in the front with a H100i, i used this configuration before - it's tight, but it fits. Alternatively, if you need a 12mm+ drive you could consider getting an M.2 SSD (if you have a compatible mobo), they're as fast or faster than SATA SSDs, and it's one less cable to cram inside the case.
 
illli, you should realise Necere isn't the person to limit flexibility, since the Ncase M1 is about the most flexible case of it's kind. There is no other option if you want to stuff the kind of hardware it supports into a case this small that also looks and feels extremely well-made. Making this case more complex for a very select few people who somehow can't use the three good options to mount storage, is just bad practice. And even then, you can always get creative and make your own solution. But calling the storage options "terrible and inflexible" couldn't be farther from the truth.
 
After looking at the photos again I agree. Judging from your experience with Silverstone-PSUs is there any chance to "sunk" the plugs deeper into the chassis? I have always hated the Silverstone-plugs anyway.

Yes, this can be done, you can push the modular PCB further back into the housing. At least, I have done this with the ST45SF-G. There is a plastic divider behind the PCB, so there's no chance to short-circuit something. I can't tell you exactly how many millimeters you will win. At least 2mm, maybe as much as 5mm. You will need washers and longer countersunk M3 screws.

However, opening the PSU voids the warranty.
 
Could we have the option to choose what feet color we want? For example, if I get a black case, i would want to choose silver feet instead of black.
 
Could we have the option to choose what feet color we want? For example, if I get a black case, i would want to choose silver feet instead of black.
I'd like to give everyone as many options as they want, but alas. Each variation like that doubles the number of possible combinations... 2,4,8,16,32... so on. We're at four now. The more variants, the greater the potential for someone receiving the wrong thing. We have to keep it simple.
 
I'd like to give everyone as many options as they want, but alas. Each variation like that doubles the number of possible combinations... 2,4,8,16,32... so on. We're at four now. The more variants, the greater the potential for someone receiving the wrong thing. We have to keep it simple.

Where can I buy silver case feet for the m1?
 
I know this is too big of a change for revision #2, but I would love getting rid of the 3rd PCI slot on the bottom and adding that extra space to the top so we can mount fans on the top of the case.
 
It was discussed pretty heavily in the original topic for v1, I doubt things have changed enough to warrant anything major like that
 
Main reason is for cooling. Right now i'm just playing around and put 1 120mm fan on top of my case and my temps are really nice. My daughterboard on my Impact is also cool to touch. Without the top fan it's very hot.

Then again I can see the 3rd PCI slot being useful for watercooling, HDDs, etc but for me it's a waste of space since I have nothing occupying that space.
 
Main reason is for cooling. Right now I'm just playing around and put 1 120mm fan on top of my case and my temps are really nice. My daughterboard on my Impact is also cool to touch. Without the top fan it's very hot.

Then again I can see the 3rd PCI slot being useful for watercooling, HDDs, etc but for me it's a waste of space since I have nothing occupying that space.

I think that would ruin the case if fans are inserted on top. But its not a bad idea since heat rises. Maybe for another time the ncase m2 for heavy modifications.
 
My daughterboard on my Impact is also cool to touch. Without the top fan it's very hot.

Sorry - have to respond since this is a pet peeve of mine. A human's neurological systems for assessing heat are based on the burning temperature of skin. When your hands feel direct heat over ~50C, they send a message of danger, that triggers an emotional reaction in your brain that something is wrong.

The components on the daughterboard are not made of skin, and are not in danger of damage from running at only 50C or even 80C.

A better assessment can be made by using a temperature probe, and asking Asus themselves what is a safe temperature for the VRM board to be running at.
 
Main reason is for cooling. Right now i'm just playing around and put 1 120mm fan on top of my case and my temps are really nice. My daughterboard on my Impact is also cool to touch. Without the top fan it's very hot.

Then again I can see the 3rd PCI slot being useful for watercooling, HDDs, etc but for me it's a waste of space since I have nothing occupying that space.

You lose a lot of utility by getting rid of the third slot, though (I presume you mean to eliminate the height it imposes as well). IMO keeping the third slot and adding extra height to fit a top fan would be the least detrimental way to do it, but you'd increase the volume, which would be a hard sell.

Also, this:

[the components/motherboard] are not in danger of damage from running at only 50C or even 80C.

A better assessment can be made by using a temperature probe, and asking Asus themselves what is a safe temperature for the VRM board to be running at.

As far as anyone knows there isn't yet a configuration that brings a motherboard to a dangerous or damage-inducing level. It might get a little toasty, but if it's within the thermal range specified by manufacturers, you're solving a problem that doesn't exist.

(I can totally relate to the paranoia of keeping everything cool, though, FWIW)
 
As far as anyone knows there isn't yet a configuration that brings a motherboard to a dangerous or damage-inducing level.

Well, there was on some of the Sandy Bridge mITX boards. The Zotac Z68 had a lot of issues with overheating.
 
Well, there was on some of the Sandy Bridge mITX boards. The Zotac Z68 had a lot of issues with overheating.

Well, I mean, if one motherboard has poor thermals in general, you can't really blame the case for that ;) If the problem was more pervasive across many mITX boards, however, then that's different.

Still, I didn't know that Sandy Bridge in general created heat issues on some mITX motherboards. My only experience there is a SFF system I built in a SGO5 with an OC'd 2500k on a AIO, with some middle-of-the-road MSI motherboard, but that runs 24/7 like a champ.
 
Sorry - have to respond since this is a pet peeve of mine. A human's neurological systems for assessing heat are based on the burning temperature of skin. When your hands feel direct heat over ~50C, they send a message of danger, that triggers an emotional reaction in your brain that something is wrong.

The components on the daughterboard are not made of skin, and are not in danger of damage from running at only 50C or even 80C.

A better assessment can be made by using a temperature probe, and asking Asus themselves what is a safe temperature for the VRM board to be running at.
I understand it might within the acceptable range for max temp but with me being OCD, I usually follow the idea that cooler = longevity.

You lose a lot of utility by getting rid of the third slot, though (I presume you mean to eliminate the height it imposes as well). IMO keeping the third slot and adding extra height to fit a top fan would be the least detrimental way to do it, but you'd increase the volume, which would be a hard sell.
IMO the most useful features would be HDDs and water pumps but I feel like with some creativity you could mount both of those on the top of the case somehow. At least the pump, you could probably attach it to a 120mm fan mount. Something like this
ex-pmp-79.jpg


I think the only two things that you lose 100% function if you cut out the 3rd slot would be 3 slot GPU and DTX motherboards.
 
IMO the most useful features would be HDDs and water pumps but I feel like with some creativity you could mount both of those on the top of the case somehow. At least the pump, you could probably attach it to a 120mm fan mount.

I think the only two things that you lose 100% function if you cut out the 3rd slot would be 3 slot GPU and DTX motherboards.

I'm not so sure. Take a look at the top-view:

tyQLqr6.jpg


It will be challenging to mount a drive (or pair of 2.5'' drives) on the left side without at least partially covering the PSU. That would push a lot of heat directly on the drives, and inhibit the ability of the power supply to cool itself down. I don't think it would be advisable.

You also wouldn't want to put drives over the right side because you'd be blocking a great portion of the top from acting as an intake (negative pressure) or exhaust (positive pressure). If you had a positive-pressure setup, you'd also be pushing hot air against the drives again.
 
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