NCASE M1 version changelog and suggestions thread

Necere said:
I didn't shift it at all. That's the H220 rad in the model with 25mm thick fans. The thing is it already just barely fits in the case.

There's really no way you could swing it out. There's also an additional complicating factor I neglected to mention: the dual-position mounting of the radiator bracket.

So in the end, yeah, it might be nice. But there's really no way to do it without giving up one thing or another, or making the case larger.
Click to expand...

Yeah, agreed. It's a nice-to-have, for sure, but the compromises needed keep it out of scope for what we're trying to do here.

On the one hand, that's a bummer - even if an expected bummer. On the other, though, I didn't know you could move the bracket up! Was that how it has always been, or is that a recent revision?

That alone will make WC jobs, especially those including GPU, much easier - it's no swinging door for easier component access, but it makes the routing of tubing (which you live with every day, rather than just during installation) significantly more comfortable.

I reiterate my appreciation for your input and exploration of this, Necere! If anything, this thread is simply reinforcing how well designed the M1 is already. That we are discussing features like hinged radiator brackets, or modifications to add/remove small ledges, is only possible given the great balance of features and compromises struck by most everything else. I struggle to think of other cases where that is also true. And for SFF it's unmatched, really.
 
PlayfulPhoenix said:
On the other, though, I didn't know you could move the bracket up! Was that how it has always been, or is that a recent revision?
Click to expand...
It was included in the first production run. I think only the first (and maybe second) prototypes didn't have it.
 
I've been wrestling with how to mod my M1 for a radiator hinge as well. On one hand, I'm glad I haven't been overlooking an easy solution, but on the other, I'm sad to see that a solution doesn't seem to exist :(
 
Necere said:
Two things: the slot cutout needs to be notched a couple mm to make the bend, which reduces the already small bridge between the expansions slot and motherboard I/O cutouts; and with an expansion card installed you'd have little space for your fingers between the card's connectors and the tab. To illustrate:

It would make more sense on the bottom slot, but at that point, why not just grab from the bottom? I think a 10mm tab is inadequate for proper lifting in any case.
Click to expand...

Thanks for spending the time to do the render on this. That is exactly what I was suggesting. Probably not a good enough idea to overcome the down side. Although 10mm is plenty for me to grip, if you have DVI ports sticking out, it may be even less useful.

Topweasel said:
Yeah I have had enough issues with DVI connectors and Serial connectors on ressesed (fogive the spelling) expansion slots. You see it more on computers with trays that slide out. Even in the picture above you can see how some DVI cables will have a connector too thick to fit under it. That wouldn't be a goo spot for it. Though I don't think you need it at all. At worst maybe just have taller feet so you can get a hand under it easier.
Click to expand...

Lifting from the bottom probably isn't a big deal for most. My fingers currently don't fit very well. Maybe 2-3mm increase in foot height would do it for me. I could probably add a washer between the feet and the case to get the clearance I need, but its just not worth the trouble.
 
Phuncz said:
If you have absolutely no straight SATA cables, you can pick those up from eBay, Amazon, NewEgg or a local computer store for a few dollars or euros.
Click to expand...

i would agree, except this is the improvement and suggestion topic :) i can't be the only one using L type sata cables and wanting to stack them like i was doing. so i felt it needed to be mentioned for consideration. no harm in mentioning it.
these are the different combinations that i tried before giving up. for various reasons none worked, either the external front panel was too close or there was not enough material cut away. actually there might have been a few more that i have forgotten about :p i wasn't too keen on the outward facing cables, I much prefer them facing towards the motherboard, but I tried it anyway just to see if it would work.

A2MoaSR.jpg



Necere said:
The flat head M3s ('H' type on the screw guide) are for stacking 2.5" drives. The drives are threaded for M3, so obviously can't be replaced with #6-32 ('F' type). As for the chassis parts that are secured using the same screws (fan bracket, PSU brackets mainly), they need to be small in order to sit flush with the surface when countersunk. The head height needs to be less than the aluminum thickness (1.5mm), and on a cursory search, flat head 6-32s seem to be 2mm+.

It sounds like your issue is mainly with flat head M3s vs the dome head M3s. Since the flat head M3s are required by the design, the only real possibility for reducing the number of screw types is to replace the dome head M3s ('G') with the flat heads. Which doesn't sound like what you'd prefer.
Click to expand...


yes, this was on point, it was mostly with the counter sunk m3s, and to a lesser extent the round m3s. If I remember, the flat heads were the ones used in 'load bearing' areas where the flat head was also a necessity to fit in the constrained areas. I realize the current design would not allow for any other screw size in those specific areas, since the side panels sit so close but i felt i should mention my frustrations anyway :)

Since theres no real guide I did spend more hours than i care to admit trying to figure out what screws went where. it kind of sucks assembling everything, 99% complete, only to realize there was a mistake in the screws i used. and only realizing then when putting the side panels back on. thats kind of how the homogenized screw idea originated. if more parts shared the same type of screw, people would not find themselves in the same situation as i did.

i did find a larger flat head screw in my own inventory of misc screws... but I'm not exactly sure on the size, but it looks like it has the flat head of the 'E' screw, but the thickness of the 'A'.
here is a size comparison.

giFimae.jpg
 
PlayfulPhoenix said:
Yeah, agreed. It's a nice-to-have, for sure, but the compromises needed keep it out of scope for what we're trying to do here.

On the one hand, that's a bummer - even if an expected bummer. On the other, though, I didn't know you could move the bracket up! Was that how it has always been, or is that a recent revision?

That alone will make WC jobs, especially those including GPU, much easier - it's no swinging door for easier component access, but it makes the routing of tubing (which you live with every day, rather than just during installation) significantly more comfortable.

I reiterate my appreciation for your input and exploration of this, Necere! If anything, this thread is simply reinforcing how well designed the M1 is already. That we are discussing features like hinged radiator brackets, or modifications to add/remove small ledges, is only possible given the great balance of features and compromises struck by most everything else. I struggle to think of other cases where that is also true. And for SFF it's unmatched, really.
Click to expand...

The M1 really is great - I love my M1!

I can see that trying to add a hinge for the radiator plate is too problematic. I will say for me personally just about the only thing have found annoying about the M1 is having to screw in and screw out those 4 little screws holding the plate every time I want to access the internals. C'est la vie.
 
CrazyRob said:
I've been wrestling with how to mod my M1 for a radiator hinge as well. On one hand, I'm glad I haven't been overlooking an easy solution, but on the other, I'm sad to see that a solution doesn't seem to exist :(
Click to expand...

I'm sure that it's possible - in fact, using the top-down image, I did some quick trig to demonstrate that the arc of a hinged door (with the Swiftech radiator and fans) could fit within the dimensions of the case. But you would have to make some modifications to the sides of the frame of the case, which would be a lot of work, and plenty of risk, considering the tolerances there are. And that's with the presumption that you have a hinge that doesn't require shifting the bracket, and that you aren't using a thicker radiator. Plus you'd lose the capability to move the bracket itself up and down.

As far as a case feature, simply putting in a hinged door, even ignoring all the other compromises, would be too narrowly beneficial. But as a personal mod it could work quite well - if you know what you're doing. ;) (Or know someone else who does!)

GBH2 said:
The M1 really is great - I love my M1!

I can see that trying to add a hinge for the radiator plate is too problematic. I will say for me personally just about the only thing have found annoying about the M1 is having to screw in and screw out those 4 little screws holding the plate every time I want to access the internals. C'est la vie.
Click to expand...

It would be nice to have sliding hooks or something so as to make removal of the bracket toolless. But, as with a hinged bracket, it's a nice-to-have that you only really encounter during installation. Which is fortunate, since 99.9% of the time you won't notice it!
 
PlayfulPhoenix said:
It would be nice to have sliding hooks or something so as to make removal of the bracket toolless. But, as with a hinged bracket, it's a nice-to-have that you only really encounter during installation. Which is fortunate, since 99.9% of the time you won't notice it!
Click to expand...


The problem with sliding hooks is that it'll scratch up the paint and metal over time..
 
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but how about adding support for a lock? Like a Kensington Security Slot? I know that not everyone might use it, but I think some that will might appreciate it.
 
I'm afraid the aluminum is too thin for that kind of apllication! Might need reeinforcement for that (and at what cost?).
 
Evangelion said:
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but how about adding support for a lock? Like a Kensington Security Slot? I know that not everyone might use it, but I think some that will might appreciate it.
Click to expand...

Bear in mind that these are patented by Kensington. They might have an aftermarket kit for desktops, however.
 
I can hardly believe Kensington can patent a rectangular hole with rounded corners. What they will have rights on is using the term "Kensington Security Slot", or something like that, used on a product.
 
Phuncz said:
I can hardly believe Kensington can patent a rectangular hole with rounded corners. What they will have rights on is using the term "Kensington Security Slot", or something like that, used on a product.
Click to expand...

Thing is, it's not just a rectangular hole. It's a specific arrangement and placement of a reinforced opening, internal notches, etc., that are designed to work with a specific locking mechanism which prioritizes mobility. Kensington has gone to court several times to defend their IP, and Google suggests that they usually win.

You could cut an identical hole, and then not call it an official Kensington slot (with a wink), but that's playing a dangerous game. Besides, at that point the hole wouldn't really be Kensington-compatible anyway - there's more than just a hole in a case with official Kensington-lock compatibility. So you'd have the worst of both worlds: A poor implementation of an idea that still violates the patent you're trying to avoid.

Since inclusion of a slot would work poorly with actual Kensington locks, there's not a compelling reason to add it. Besides, since the panels are toolless and easily removed, a locked chassis would stop nobody from pulling out your drives and graphics card in fairly short order, and everything else if given some time. So you're leaving the valuable parts unsecured no matter what you do.

UPDATE: Topweasel has a really good find, looks as if Kensington freely allows usage of the slot assuming it meets specifications and is branded. See:

Topweasel said:
Actually that might not even be the case. Well I should say they have the rights, but actually authorize use of it's name on devices using the slot as a way of free advertising for them.

http://www.kensington.com/us/us/4593/kensington-security-slot
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Sure a patent can be for drilling a hole, since a patent describes and protects a manufacturing process. If it's something they've come up with that was not possible before, then it's important that they can defend their invention from copycats.

"Kensington Security Slot" is a trademark, not a patent.
 
Phuncz said:
I can hardly believe Kensington can patent a rectangular hole with rounded corners. What they will have rights on is using the term "Kensington Security Slot", or something like that, used on a product.
Click to expand...

Actually that might not even be the case. Well I should say they have the rights, but actually authorize use of it's name on devices using the slot as a way of free advertising for them.

http://www.kensington.com/us/us/4593/kensington-security-slot

Seems to be an open standard on the slot itself and they basically make all their money from people calling it the kensington lock so that users go out and buy Kensington locks (and they probably have patents on the lock mechanism meaning they own a monopoly on the locks themselves).
 
Topweasel said:
Actually that might not even be the case. Well I should say they have the rights, but actually authorize use of it's name on devices using the slot as a way of free advertising for them.

http://www.kensington.com/us/us/4593/kensington-security-slot

Seems to be an open standard on the slot itself and they basically make all their money from people calling it the kensington lock so that users go out and buy Kensington locks (and they probably have patents on the lock mechanism meaning they own a monopoly on the locks themselves).
Click to expand...

Interesting link :)

It says the metal backing needs to be 0.8mm steel.
 
Wouldn't it be possible to have a top panel without any holes/grid ? Pretty sure it will be a nice option, for people aiming to build a silent pc.
 
Parkkatt said:
Wouldn't it be possible to have a top panel without any holes/grid ? Pretty sure it will be a nice option, for people aiming to build a silent pc.
Click to expand...

Not that it should be overly difficult to get unperferated tops for people seeking it. I am not sure its worth the endeavor to the end user.

The smaller you go the more compromises you have to make. What is great about the M1 is that it's a no compromise case. It doesn't lack in style, possible configurations, and allows for some very substantial hardware. Since you have to have compromises, all of them seem aimed at noise level. Every single side on the case with the exception of the very elegant front is filled with holes, slots, and other sound escaping gaps. Covering the top might help its style for some, allow others to more comfortably set stuff on it, but I seriously doubt it will help its sound profile.
 
Parkkatt said:
Wouldn't it be possible to have a top panel without any holes/grid ? Pretty sure it will be a nice option, for people aiming to build a silent pc.
Click to expand...

IMHO. Less ventilation is not the best approach for achieving a silent build. Aim for components that produce less heat and cooling solutions that are passive or use slow moving extremely quiet fans.
 
Yes I agree. You can't make a case silent by "shutting it up", you have to deal with the noisy components, like the fans.
 
Yes but a perforated panel means you'll have to deal with dust. You can make a perfectly silent build without any heat problems if you just use an i3/5 without overclocking it.

Are there dust filters mounted on the top panel ?
 
3396469815.jpg

As an example, two Lian-Li cases with solid top panel.

It could be an option for the ncase :)
 
Parkkatt said:
Yes but a perforated panel means you'll have to deal with dust. You can make a perfectly silent build without any heat problems if you just use an i3/5 without overclocking it.
Click to expand...
With a computer, unless it's fully sealed, you'll always have dust. The Q03 still has air vents which will due to the lack of any intakes will just make it a slow vacuum cleaner.

Parkkatt said:
Are there dust filters mounted on the top panel ?
Click to expand...
Nope, but Demciflex can fix you up with that !
Hmm maybe I'll get a custom one for the top panel.
 
Without even considering the noise or dust, I think a solid panel is more pleasing to the eye.
 
If you somehow get enough people to meet the Minimum Order Quantity (Necere can tell you how much), you might have a chance.
 
Phuncz said:
If you somehow get enough people to meet the Minimum Order Quantity (Necere can tell you how much), you might have a chance.
Click to expand...

Ok so official request, Necere :D :

Just like you offered with the previous shipment a "no ODD slot top cover", couldn't you add the choice for a "not perforated top cover" ?
223284option.png


Thank you :)
 
But then again would you have a no slot non perforated top cover and a slot non perforated top cover so you are creating another two possible options which may be confusing
 
No one complained about the existing options (ODD slot, color) being confusing ;)

This M1 rev2 will concern hundreds of "customers", and I am probably not the only one being interested in a solid/non perforated top cover for a slicker look.

For anyone aiming for a silent, air-cooled, non overclocked pc, the top grid is not necessarily relevant.
 
Last edited:
Phuncz said:
Nope, but Demciflex can fix you up with that !
Hmm maybe I'll get a custom one for the top panel.
Click to expand...

Let me know how it works/fits, if you do!

I have more than enough positive pressure to keep the dust out when it's turned on, but powered down, there's nothing to keep the dust from settling through the top panel.
 
I was checking for the top panel, it's ID 110mm x 260mm for the vent hole pattern, but it only has about 10mm for the frame. But according to Demciflex, this size would require 14mm of frame. This means you'd have some visible overhang inside the first rows of holes...
 
Phuncz said:
This means you'd have some visible overhang inside the first rows of holes...
Click to expand...

That's not too bad, I guess. I'd definitely want to trim out the adhesive strips, like I did for the bottom ones (to keep dirt/crud from sticking to the exposed sections). A slightly visible filter frame is probably a hell of a lot better than getting dust stuck in my heatsink and PSU.

I'm just wondering if doing a top filter will have any noticeable effect on the airflow and positive pressure of an M1 already fitted with filtered intakes? Hopefully, if it constricts airflow out through the top too much, the pressure will just force it out through the back of the case instead (I know, I know.. with my dozen or so too many fans, it'll probably just pop the top and whistle like a tea kettle :D).
 
Parkkatt said:
Wouldn't it be possible to have a top panel without any holes/grid ?
Click to expand...

I was curious as to what this would look like, so I 'shopped some quick images:

raoDR8B.jpg

(With a CD slot)

WrdsAEO.jpg

(Without a CD slot)

Parkkatt said:
Pretty sure it will be a nice option, for people aiming to build a silent pc.
Click to expand...

Parkkatt said:
For anyone aiming for a silent, air-cooled, non overclocked pc, the top grid is not necessarily relevant.
Click to expand...

Removing the top perforations would have no real effect on the noise of the case. In fact, if anything, it will make it slightly louder since reduced intakes/exhausts would probably increase temperatures in such a small enclosure. You'd be eliminating the opportunity for positive pressure, radiant heat, and convection to let hot air exit the top.

In fact, if you had fans mounted to the side, I'm pretty sure a positive-pressure configuration would suffer, since air current could only exit the small back vent, or navigate to the bottom of the case (the motherboard and PSU pretty much cover the opposite side vent). As GBH2 noted:

GBH2 said:
IMHO. Less ventilation is not the best approach for achieving a silent build. Aim for components that produce less heat and cooling solutions that are passive or use slow moving extremely quiet fans.
Click to expand...

All that said, I can appreciate that aesthetic preference. But I wonder if having eight difference combinations of top panels to manufacture (black/silver, ODD/no ODD, vent/no vent) would necessitate a MOQ across every combination?
 
Thank you for your work PlayfulPhoenix. I love the way it looks on your images :)

To ease the process, maybe a variant can be crossed out (like no vent/ no ODD).
 
The PSU exhausts through the top vents, so I can only really see a solid top being an option for picoPSU and/or very low-power builds where the PSU heat won't build up. It doesn't seem like there's a lot of demand for it, but it's something we can consider.
 
Ok this may sound like a stupid and possibly extremely pointless and time consuming ask but will we be able to chose the number on our case if it hasn't been chosen by anyone else, I have been excited thinking about it recently and wondered if I had a choice what number I'd go for (1027) I've no idea why but it just seems cool :) maybe just for us guys on the forum?
 
Peter_364 said:
Ok this may sound like a stupid and possibly extremely pointless and time consuming ask but will we be able to chose the number on our case if it hasn't been chosen by anyone else, I have been excited thinking about it recently and wondered if I had a choice what number I'd go for (1027) I've no idea why but it just seems cool :) maybe just for us guys on the forum?
Click to expand...

What if they only sell 500 M1v2 cases.. or continue off from current v1 serialization?

The v1 serialization was semi-random, based on SKU, so probably not possible.. would be kinda nice though.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top