Navi Rumors v2.0

Discussion in 'AMD Flavor' started by Boil, May 10, 2019.

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  1. N4CR

    N4CR 2[H]4U

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    More than Vega prices if the $500 MSRP is true. V64 has been available at around 400USD for over half a year, that's when I picked one up off NKD. V56s are a steal currently around the $200 mark in some cases, if you know which ones to get with the sammy HBM.
     
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  2. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

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    Maybe :)
    But now AMD is not pinned down by expensive HBM memory. And depending on what models are coming some of those could work very well in favour of AMD if they can free up certain price brackets.
    I have seen Nitro+ Vega 64 for under 400 Euro at Amazon,
    It is weird that if AMD uses high priced Navi and sticks with it there is not much to do but to wait until Intel floods the market with their gpu and hope that changes things.
     
  3. N4CR

    N4CR 2[H]4U

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    That's a good price for same performance if Navi is $500.
    AMD is using pricing that high because Nvidia enables it by pushing prices up. Neither want lower prices if possible, but we all lose in the end.
    I too hope Intel shakes things up and if they manage to make their scalable GPU uarch work before AMD, I may even take the plunge on one (even as bit of a Radeon fan) because scalable GPU solutions are clearly the way out of the lithography mess, much like Zen 2 is for CPU.
     
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  4. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    So AMD's high prices are NVidia's fault? :rolleyes:
     
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  5. kirbyrj

    kirbyrj [H]ard as it Gets

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    Actually, yes in a round about way. AMD has the same obligation to their shareholders as Nvidia, so if they think the market will bear a high priced mid range card, they will price it as such. It's the same way on their CPU's. Lisa Su wants to build brand value not be the value brand. Pricing is going to increase. Bad for consumers looking for bottom barrel pricing.

    AND, I will sit here and continue to not upgrade until pricing returns to reality.
     
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  6. sc5mu93

    sc5mu93 [H]Lite

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    I'm going to lose my mind if Lisa Su, or whoever presents keeps championing "we love gamers" and then launches these things at 499. I hope the audience BOOs if/when they announce that price.
     
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  7. TheRookie

    TheRookie Limp Gawd

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    GeForce RTX 2060 is already as fast as the Radeon RX Vega 64

    If the Radeon RX 5700XT is as fast as (or faster) the GeForce RTX 2070, then it's quite a bit faster than the Radeon RX Vega 64.
     
  8. N4CR

    N4CR 2[H]4U

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    At 1080 they are about same if you want to use them that low of a resolution, at 1440 V64 is faster in newer titles and at higher resolutions it walks away quite significantly. It also has more VRAM which will make it handle more demanding games better in long term use.
    But yes if the 5700XT is as fast or faster than the 2070 according to those leaked slides it will be an interesting card indeed. I'd picked it to be around V56 and at best between V56 and V64 and might be wrong.. we'll find out soon.
     
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  9. sabrewolf732

    sabrewolf732 2[H]4U

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    https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/msi_geforce_rtx_2060_gaming_z_review,1.html

    Im getting numbers from here. The vega 64 is often faster than the reference 2060 in this review, and when it's not it's dead even.

    Also interesting to note, the rtx 2060 gets REALLY close to the 2070.
     
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  10. sabrewolf732

    sabrewolf732 2[H]4U

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    Seems like the 5700xt is consistently faster than the rtx 2070 (and in turn will be significantly faster than the 64) for $449.

    Seems fair.
     
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  11. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

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    I would still have my reservations with the whole Navi launch. If that price is going to drop due to Nvidia in the first month it might not be that bad.
     
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  12. Mylex

    Mylex Limp Gawd

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    That's horrible... These cards are too expensive. Nvidia has jacked up the price market so this looks good to some. The RTX line of cards main job wasn't to push new technology but to push the entry boundaries for card levels. Job completed successfully on their part.
     
  13. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

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    Look at it this way in a years time Intel is going to join the fight so the time for profit is in the time between now and then. Last time Intel came to market they were selling cards so cheap , not that it will happen again but it will put the whole consumer market in a different situation where there 3 companies fighting for market share and usually that is not done by raising prices.
     
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  14. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Yeah, terrible NVidia, forcing AMD to charge high prices. This stuff is just priceless. :D
     
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  15. Mylex

    Mylex Limp Gawd

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    If you think these cards would be this price if the rtx cards were more in line with previous generations you are crazy. AMD being a business of course they aren't here for mindshare but profits. If you look at any of my posts in the previous rumor threads I've said multiple times they will charge pretty close to Nvidia. Just looking at the cards price and estimated performance show these are overpriced. My post just says that because the bar has been raised these have beer goggles on them making them look like a deal when in reality they suck
     
  16. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    It's nuts how this forum reacts to pricing:

    NVidia has high prices. "NVidia are money grubbing evil bastards".

    Then:

    AMD has high prices. "NVidia are money grubbing evil bastards". Because it's NVidia's fault that AMD chose those prices. :rolleyes:

    Reality check: Either party in the market is free to set their prices where ever they want. If you are unhappy with the pricing of either, the buck stops with them, not the other guy.
     
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  17. Mylex

    Mylex Limp Gawd

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    Both companies are money grubbing evil bastards as you said. If you think that AMD prices were done with only looking at their product alone that's just precious. They aren't the market leader so they have to factor the opposition into the final price. AMD just chose to be in close price parity to charge more then they are capable of on their own. Let say NVIDIA drops the super cards and lowers the price on the non super rtx cards so that the 2070/60 are 50 to 100 cheaper. By your logic AMD will keep these cards priced the same.
     
  18. TheRookie

    TheRookie Limp Gawd

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    relative-performance_1920-1080.png
    relative-performance_2560-1440.png
    relative-performance_3840-2160.png
     
  19. sabrewolf732

    sabrewolf732 2[H]4U

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  20. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Well, they don't suck- they're faster, and make no mistake that if the market and technology positions were switched (it's happened!), AMD would be the one pushing prices up. During the Pentium IV era, their CPU prices make Intel's previous highs look sane...
     
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  21. TheRookie

    TheRookie Limp Gawd

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    Those results are correct.

    Hardware Unboxed got similar results.
     
  22. sabrewolf732

    sabrewolf732 2[H]4U

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    the x2 was quite pricey iirc. I was broke at the time and I could afford a Pentium D, overclocked well but consumed an obscene (for the time) amount of power.
     
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  23. sabrewolf732

    sabrewolf732 2[H]4U

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    table5.png

    lol
     
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  24. Hakaba

    Hakaba Gawd

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    Lol I know that feeling.
     

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  25. stashix

    stashix Limp Gawd

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    So you're getting what, +20% perf over a 1080 which you could buy for 500$ sometime around 03/2017, and all that for 50$ less?
    No RTX features either (debatable whether they're useful or not).
    Pretty meh to be honest.
     
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  26. sabrewolf732

    sabrewolf732 2[H]4U

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    woah clawhammer bringing it back!
     
  27. NightReaver

    NightReaver n00b

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    It's meh, but fair. If reviews back this card up and it performs a little faster than a 2070, why not charge around the same price then? Nvidia has proven that people will open their wallets up, AMD might as well follow along.

    Idk, a lot of people expect AMD to be this budget brand making due with slim margins. If their silicon turns out to be just as good, then it deserves a fair shot. On the other hand what would be great is if this actually gets some price competition started, that's when the consumer wins.
     
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  28. Auer

    Auer Gawd

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    Well AMD brilliantly managed to put zero (0) pressure on Nvidia. The market is set.
     
  29. DooKey

    DooKey [H]ardness Supreme

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    It is what it is. Anyone that's been paying attention for the last several years knew AMD wasn't going to pressure NV this go round. AMD is hurting once NV releases 7nm cards.
     
  30. reaper12

    reaper12 2[H]4U

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    What? Don't you forget the Pentium II CPUs that were nearly $2000. And it's not like Intel were selling their top parts cheap during the Pentium III and Pentium IV eras either. They were still $1000+

    But that was the prices of all the Top CPU's back then. Remember the Pentium 4's were released before those X2's were released, the Pentium 4 HT and Extreme editions selling for between $800 and $1200. The AMD CPU's you listed performed better than their Intel equivalents for less money.
     
  31. sabrewolf732

    sabrewolf732 2[H]4U

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    The Pentium D was far cheaper than the x2 at launch, though it really struggled to compete in terms of performance. It was a great value. The Pentium D launched in the $200 range if I remember correctly.
     
  32. DooKey

    DooKey [H]ardness Supreme

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    Please take the cpu discussion to the cpu sub-forums if you don't mind.
     
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  33. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Yeah, and we spent 6 months pointing out what obvious BS a $250 price point for a 2070 competitor was. Apparently some even got banned for pointing this out o_O.

    But people just kept believing "that rumor".

    Maybe next time a "too good to be true" rumors emerge people will be more skeptical, but I am not holding my breath.

    Now that reality has set in, pricing is about where it needs to be. $50 cheaper and a bit faster is about right. If I were choosing between 2070 and 5700xt, I would go XT. Of course this assumes NVidia does nothing to tweak things in it's favor. If NVidia boosts performance and/or lowers price it could get a lot harder to decide. I don't care much about RT HW right now, but if the price/performance were equal I would take the "free" RT HW to play with.
     
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  34. sabrewolf732

    sabrewolf732 2[H]4U

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    I think the argument being made is that AMD has historically charged higher prices than competitors when they had the superior hardware, to expect them to drastically undercut price for a competitive product isn't out of the realm of feasibility for AMD

    That being said, as stated I think the $449 is fair. Nothing crazy or groundbreaking, but fair considering it sounds like it's 10-20% faster than a vega 64 (when extrapolating based on the results they showed). The $449 price point definitely won't disrupt the market.

    IMO nvidia knew navi would be somewhat competitive and the rumored super is a response to it (much like the 1070ti for the vega 56). If the rtx 2070 get the purported $100 price drop with the 2070 super launching at $499 things will be pretty interesting!
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
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  35. reaper12

    reaper12 2[H]4U

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    Pentium D's were a whole range of CPU's from around $120 to the $1200. The Athlon X2 4800+ was faster at the time than the previously released Pentium D 840 XE. The Pentium 840 XE was $1200 at the time of the X2 Launch.
     
  36. Crosshairs

    Crosshairs Administrator Staff Member

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    Lets try and get this back on topic if we can....:)
     
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  37. TheRookie

    TheRookie Limp Gawd

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