Navi Rumors v2.0

Discussion in 'AMD Flavor' started by Boil, May 10, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,622
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2003
    Well, they also didn't with their Athlon CPUs up until the Core 2 release, and ATi didn't with their DX9 parts after the release of the 9700 Pro.

    It would also be irresponsible for them to underprice so much that they have issues with supply (unless they don't). Mostly because Nvidia, their chief competitor and marketshare and technology superior, can just drop their own prices enough to compete more directly and AMD will likely move a similar amount of units just with lower margins.
     
  2. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    8,553
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    As per previous discussion, they haven't really undercut NVidia on a new GPU, since Lisa Su took over the company.

    The last time was R9 290, and when they did that, NVidia tweaked design and lowered their prices as well, resulting in the status quo and less margin for everyone.

    Think like a company trying to make money. Significantly undercutting your competitors pricing is only a good strategy if your competitors ignore your price cut, and let you gain market share. Given history it is unlikely NVidia would do that, so it would NOT be a good strategy.
     
  3. dragonstongue

    dragonstongue 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,050
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    Some countries if they wanted to they can "flood" with their products at "rock bottom prices"
    but what company does that, besides maybe drug cartels to get new buyers en mass.

    The few countries etc that do allow this, it does not take long before you are barred from selling in countries this would be considered monopolies/collusion etc (made billions, pay back in fines and lose product shipments)

    AMD is known to be very "tight" with their pricing, that is making enough to stay alive, but not charging obsene either in comparison % to $ wise..

    As others have pointed out some card like say FuryX, Vega 64 etc were/are very expensive to produce, even then AMD has a habit of overbuilding their products instead of "cheaping out" (better quality capacitor, using solder when could/should have used thermal crap glue etc..so at least they are not just pissing it all away (mostly)

    Corporations do not "care" they are not people, they are a business, always, however, the leadership of such "power" is what truly matters, they have enough weight to make the world go round. is that not so? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    I for one am glad a company like AMD is around.

    They do keep a massive "check valve" on the industry afterall. The end of the line is fast approaching for many of the players the earth in all reality the way things are going and people continuing to allow it) they all need as many check valves as possible (dramatic, but unfortunately oh so true)
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2019
    Pieter3dnow likes this.
  4. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,693
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    Look at all the threads in utter dismay about ray tracing in this AMD forum that have not been started by people with an agenda and or Nvidia users trolling.....

    It seems that all of us understand that we have yet to see _real_ hardware ray tracing (decent frame rates/resolution and not segmented to just high end)..................
     
  5. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    8,553
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    It's unfortunate that everything is so partisan, that we can't have a reasonable discussion in the middle ground about Ray Tracing.

    RTX cards obviously have REAL ray tracing HW. Just because it is limited to higher end products doesn't change that. Ray Tracing is so computationally expensive that even with dedicated HW, it needs significant chip area, and will for quite some time.

    Ray Tracing is here to stay, and it's importance will only grow.

    But today it's importance is NOT that significant. It simply doesn't matter to most people. Look at most of the NVidia threads after the RTX card reviews. A lot of complaints that NVidia should have just skipped RT HW and built normal shader cards with higher performance.

    The Sapphire interview does have to rank as the most probably leak/rumor, and it deflates the previous nonsense wishful thinking rumors.

    From the interview indications are that the 2070 priced cards will have Stronger performance than 2070 (and one can assume similar for 2060 priced card).

    Success will largely hinge on how significant the performance advantage over the 2070 is. If it is small, then it will have a problem,it has to be an obvious and consistent advantage.
     
  6. theblackangus

    theblackangus n00b

    Messages:
    2
    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2019
    Well said Snowdog!

    RT is absolutely important, but nobody I know will give up shader performance or resolution or framerate for "better looking".

    RT hardware is the next step and everyone (vendors) know it, its the only way we will really solve particular graphics challenges going forward.

    As time progresses and DXR enabled software gets more and more common, and RT performance improves to be usable at 1440p and above with out sacrificing FPS/resolution it will make sense to have RT on all graphics cards. However we are at a point where the large die area needed for RT performance is still pretty expensive, and most people would still rather have higher FPS/Res than a small bit of eye candy at the cost of lower performance.
     
  7. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,693
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    Start your own thread about it, why carry all of the nonsense in the Navi rumours thread is beyond me. Start it in the Nvidia forum please that is where it belongs.....
     
  8. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    8,553
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    What nonsense exactly?

    If you see my post at NVidia biased that is only a reflection of your heavy bias. Note that I said about Ray Tracing: "It simply doesn't matter to most people." That is hardly some kind of pro-NVidia stance.
     
    IdiotInCharge likes this.
  9. Factum

    Factum [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,620
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2014
    The RT CryTek ran was with a lot of compromises ovr DXR...comparing apples and oranges.
     
  10. Factum

    Factum [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,620
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2014
    You friends all play pong soley?
    You need a basepoint to make you claim have any value...so what is the basepoint?
    Pong?
    Doom?
    HL2?
     
  11. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

    Messages:
    48,094
    Joined:
    May 18, 1997
    Discussion here will remain civil and on topic or you will lose access to your account.
     
    euskalzabe and thomps33 like this.
  12. Digital Viper-X-

    Digital Viper-X- [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    13,611
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2000
    End result looked pretty good, regardless of the ray tracing techniques implemented.
     
  13. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

    Messages:
    48,094
    Joined:
    May 18, 1997
    AMD 5700 (NAVI) is 10% faster than RTX 2070 (in Strange Bridgade). Available in July. Preview at E3 June 10th. Not a rumor, Scott Herkleman just said it on stage....paraphrased.
     
    noko, euskalzabe, Maddness and 2 others like this.
  14. lightsout

    lightsout Gawd

    Messages:
    832
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2014
    Amd usually has a 58xx card. Or 58x. Wondering about the odds of that not being the top card.
     
    Maddness and FrgMstr like this.
  15. crazycrave

    crazycrave Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    363
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2016
    I guess that was only the replacement for the RX 570 by it's naming and I didn't catch the settings for the benchmark .. but to kick it with a 2070RTX = 2060RTX got dropped kicked to the curb …

    Also the naming was wrong so it means we know noting 100% still other then PCI 4.0

    I like that 65 watt 3700x
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
  16. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,622
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2003
    We know it's not- this Navi is the mid-range part.
     
  17. lightsout

    lightsout Gawd

    Messages:
    832
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2014
    But isn't the RX 480/580 as well?

    Edit. I meant top in this range.
     
  18. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,622
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2003
    Absolutely could be, or they could be adjusting their product spread. The 58xx could be the upcoming 'big Navi', which is similar to what Nvidia did with the GTX780, where the GTX770 was a mid-range part and GTX 780 was the larger part.
     
  19. lightsout

    lightsout Gawd

    Messages:
    832
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2014
    Very true. Time will tell I suppose.
     
  20. crazycrave

    crazycrave Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    363
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2016
    They have been known to use the say 5700 = 5750 as the need of that 4th digit as a planned refresh almost like Zen or one of the 57-- series card not disclosed yet as which or it is them saying it's a rebuilt Tahiti scaled up as to 7nm with it's 384 bit bus on GDDR 6 with every trick in the voodoo book.

     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  21. lightsout

    lightsout Gawd

    Messages:
    832
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2014
    Do you have an example? Not remembering any.
     
  22. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    7,454
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    This is 5700 and there has to be a 5800 replacement of rx 580. I don't think AMD showed all their hands yet. On to e3. They did mention the plural "Cards", clearly there is going to be multiple models. Atleast 2, so 5800 might be another one.
     
  23. lightsout

    lightsout Gawd

    Messages:
    832
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2014
    Would be great to see a 2080 competitor as well.
     
  24. thomps33

    thomps33 n00b

    Messages:
    9
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2018
    isn't the 5700 competing with their Radeon 7?
     
  25. Oldmodder

    Oldmodder Gawd

    Messages:
    657
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2018
    2070 - 2080 performance i will take in a heartbeat ( 1080 / 144 Hz )
    Looking forward to June 10 now,,,,, and i assume August where i will finally relieve the weight load on my piggy bank. :cool:
     
    Pieter3dnow likes this.
  26. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,622
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2003
    Only in the sense that they'll be in the same performance bracket for gaming. The VII is built for compute and is significantly more expensive to produce.
     
    thomps33 likes this.
  27. Factum

    Factum [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,620
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2014
    If you like hexagaon shaped circles it looked the same yes...*chough*
     
  28. Oldmodder

    Oldmodder Gawd

    Messages:
    657
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2018
    Well i do hope a 50XX card can aid a little with my video work, 4K / 60 video do make a impact. But i am not going to get a Radeon VII just for making video work a little easier, after all its not daily i work with video so a cheaper GFX seem like the smartest route to take.
    Also not all of my video are in 4K / 60 i do quite a bit of 1080p too.

    I think i will change software too, the pinnacle studio 22 ultimate i am using PO me quite a bit with stuff it do for no reason and crashing far too often.
    Contemplating premiere elements 2019 instead.
     
  29. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    8,553
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    Nothing to do with RX 570. This is a Vega 64 replacement.

    As far as the naming being "wrong", many of us said from the start that the December rumors were complete fakes, and that should be obvious to everyone now.

    Most likely the Sapphire employee was telling the truth. This is the $500 2070 competitor he mentioned, certainly not the rumored $250 nonsense.

    What I see from AMD on this, looks quite good. Very happy to see they finally tamed power usage. But I am more in the GTX 1660 end of the market, so it might be a while before Navi migrates that low in the lineup.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
    Maddness likes this.
  30. Boil

    Boil [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,346
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2015
    We will find out quite a bit more about Navi at E3 in two weeks...
     
  31. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,693
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    Launch still in July so it is al good on that front , just brace for impact about pricing.....
     
    Maddness likes this.
  32. Oldmodder

    Oldmodder Gawd

    Messages:
    657
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2018
    /me grab his rather substantial computer table, and that pretty much guarantee anything smaller than a direct hit by a F5 will mean i am also sitting here tomorrow.
     
  33. crazycrave

    crazycrave Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    363
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2016

    They use to tell you the price range with the series = HD4850 / 4870 / 4890 or HD 5850 / 5870 … HD 6950 / 6970

    so to be 5700 series means there could a 5800 and 5900 series as they have really never had the line up for all 3 levels at once but Ryzen 2 showed there willing to add another level being it's there 50th year . also could be 5750 / 5770 just in that one series as it says RX 5000 Family

    HD5850/5870 was the card that put AMD Radeon as the brand used today as maybe why they have a lined the naming since the 380 to time it right as the reason to stay at 57** as it was July release also back then if I remember right .

    Because Ryzen 2 has also a lined it's naming with socket 939 and the 3800 x 2 which was one of the very first dual core cpu designs by AMD as to show us they can be a market leader again in cpu design with cutting edge design in counts and caches size on the same AM4 socket .

    Just my best guess at where this is headed = the meaning of RDNA = RX 5990 XT = Big Daddy = Batmobile
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  34. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,693
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    Did you guys see that bandwidth test they did with Ryzen 3xxx and Navi 5700?
    It was 25 vs 14 in AMD favour. What were they trying to show here beside PCIE 4 bandwidth.

    In general bandwidth tests are there to saturate bus bandwidth that is a given but does that translate to performance in real life as well on their Navi lineup ?
    Most cards function well even if you push them on a 8x slot or hardly notice the performance drop ....
     
  35. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    8,553
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    Nothing more. It's a PCIe 4 bandwidth demo. As you note 8x vs 16x PCIe 3 has minimal impact on gaming performance with the best cards, so PCIe 4 vs 3 will be nonexistent at 16x.

    Still looks good for AMD being first to deliver PCIe 4 MBs and GPUs.
     
    IdiotInCharge likes this.
  36. kirbyrj

    kirbyrj [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    24,062
    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2005
    I think that's just about showing the bandwidth. Whether or not you'd need the bandwidth (doubtful in most gaming cases) is another story. I certainly wouldn't think the tech is "futureproof" or however some would try to spin it. I mean PCIe 2.0 on old Sandy Bridge is still enough for gaming with only a minor penalty for the lack of bandwidth (issues with the CPU driving newer graphics cards aside).

    If this means you can get more NVMe drives on a mainstream chip then I'm all for it though.
     
    Chimpee and IdiotInCharge like this.
  37. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,693
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    I thought that the latest few revisions of PCIE were purely about allowing more devices to use the bandwidth rather then just one pushing at 100% and choking the bus for anything else ....
     
  38. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    8,553
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    No. PCIe is not a shared bus. It's point to point, with dedicated lanes.

    The main thing in PCIe 4 is doubling the bandwidth per lane. Which is pretty big jump, but irrelevant for gaming.
     
    IdiotInCharge likes this.
  39. Oldmodder

    Oldmodder Gawd

    Messages:
    657
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2018
    I hope 4.0 can also be done on X399 boards, those really fast new M2 drives i would like one of for my C: drive.
     
  40. crazycrave

    crazycrave Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    363
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2016
    May be they plan to use the infinity fabric to make a dual gpu on one board as the needed bandwidth from the PC1 4.0 = Godzilla
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.