Navi Rumors v2.0

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sabrewolf732

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Yeah it is a tried and true recipe for selling cards look at how sales are going for Radeon VII?



By that definition no one can ever release the same performance bracket cards a few years later, you could say the same about Nvidia line up today.

I have no idea on what the pricing will be if it is as suggested then AMD will cater to all of those people that out of principle would not buy Nvidia cards. But is that the market AMD is looking for because history suggests that when the cards are the same price masses will never even look at what AMD is offering.

Even better when AMD has something better there not touching it either :) .
Releasing cards in the same performance bracket as existing cards is fine

Releasing cards in the same performance bracket at the same price as 2 years prior? Not really.
 

sabrewolf732

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The bottom line is that AMD is a business, and they need healthy margins. It was nothing more than wishful thinking to believe that they were going to sell their cards for half the price of NVidias and start some kind of price war that decimate the margins at both companies. AMD doesn't win in that scenario, they just lose their massive R&D investment.

In reality AMD will likely offer Slightly better perf/dollar than NVidia and that's it.

It's a lesson for Adored TV, the next time he is vetting and/or making up rumors. They shouldn't be too good to be true.
AMD/ati has upset market pricing before. hd4870 etc.
 

Snowdog

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Well it's still rumor vs rumor and to be honest I tend to never believe pricing on rumors anyway. Hopefully will know shortly for sure.
It's rumor vs Saphire PR interview with press.
 

Pieter3dnow

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The bottom line is that AMD is a business, and they need healthy margins. It was nothing more than wishful thinking to believe that they were going to sell their cards for half the price of NVidias and start some kind of price war that decimate the margins at both companies. AMD doesn't win in that scenario, they just lose their massive R&D investment.
You mean this Navi ?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2018/06/12/sources-amd-created-navi-for-sonys-playstation-5-vega-suffered/#6ff8a77924fd

The one they developed for Sony. I am wondering does Sony pay a good deal for Navi development or do they get a free pass just because they are Sony?
As much as I want to believe you on what you say the merit of the case is that AMD needs to sell videocards The R&D budget if it was anything at all was recouped more then likely from their selling of Instinct professional line up. That is where the big bucks are not in gaming because when you leave the price high you are not going to sell many cards are you now ?

For your statement to be true you need to sell cards (consumer) to get money back in a segment AMD is being outsold by their competitor. High margins or low margins.
 

Snowdog

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You mean this Navi ?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2018/06/12/sources-amd-created-navi-for-sonys-playstation-5-vega-suffered/#6ff8a77924fd

The one they developed for Sony. I am wondering does Sony pay a good deal for Navi development or do they get a free pass just because they are Sony?
As much as I want to believe you on what you say the merit of the case is that AMD needs to sell videocards The R&D budget if it was anything at all was recouped more then likely from their selling of Instinct professional line up. That is where the big bucks are not in gaming because when you leave the price high you are not going to sell many cards are you now ?

For your statement to be true you need to sell cards (consumer) to get money back in a segment AMD is being outsold by their competitor. High margins or low margins.
You are citing another nonsense rumor, to support continued belief in nonsense rumors?
 

Pieter3dnow

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You are citing another nonsense rumor, to support continued belief in nonsense rumors?
There is confirmation on this from Sony themselves :) So it is not a rumour.

https://glitched.africa/news/playstation-5-price/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/playstation-5-everything-we-know-as-sony-reveals-first-details-about-next-generation-playstation-5-console/

There is Navi and it is in a Sony product. The news has been around. Can you maybe address what I am posting about instead of funnelling your disbelief into some form of personal attack?
 

Snowdog

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There is confirmation on this from Sony themselves :) So it is not a rumour.

https://glitched.africa/news/playstation-5-price/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/playstation-5-everything-we-know-as-sony-reveals-first-details-about-next-generation-playstation-5-console/

There is Navi and it is in a Sony product . The news has been around. Can you maybe address what I am posting about instead of funnelling your disbelief into some form of personal attack?
Where does Sony state that they paid AMD to develop Navi technology for Sony? (IOW where do they confirm that nonsense Forbes rumor?).

Don't move the goalposts from Paying to develop Navi technology, to including Navi Technology.

Of course next generation products will be Navi, PC GPUs will be Navi, Next generation Xbox will be Navi, and Sony PS5 will be Navi.

Don't confuse paying to have a custom SOC designed, with footing the bill for developing the underlying technology. Why would Sony pay to develop Navi technology for everyone else??
 
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euskalzabe

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At this point, we might as well wait a few days and find out actual information.

That said, I was hoping for 2060-like performance for $300. If we're talking Navis at $400 and $500, my interest evaporates. At these prices, the 2060 becomes more interesting: bit less performance, for a bit less price, but with DXR hardware. Now that NV has increased their products' value by supporting adaptive sync, AMD needs to offer the same value ratio, not less.

Maybe I'll keep my 1060 until the 2020 lineup, I mainly game at 2560x1080 anyway. Any next mainstream GPU should have some minimum DXR performance (similar to 2060 level). Anything less than that seems uninteresting - why lock yourself out of the next wave of graphics progress? What surprises me the most is that AMD isn't releasing a $250-300 variant already, as they badly need to recover marketshare so developers make coding for their GPUs a priority again. It is bad for all of us when the majority of game studios use Gameworks.
 

Dayaks

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At this point, we might as well wait a few days and find out actual information.

That said, I was hoping for 2060-like performance for $300. If we're talking Navis at $400 and $500, my interest evaporates. At these prices, the 2060 becomes more interesting: bit less performance, for a bit less price, but with DXR hardware. Now that NV has increased their products' value by supporting adaptive sync, AMD needs to offer the same value ratio, not less.

Maybe I'll keep my 1060 until the 2020 lineup, I mainly game at 2560x1080 anyway. Any next mainstream GPU should have some minimum DXR performance (similar to 2060 level). Anything less than that seems uninteresting - why lock yourself out of the next wave of graphics progress? What surprises me the most is that AMD isn't releasing a $250-300 variant already, as they badly need to recover marketshare so developers make coding for their GPUs a priority again. It is bad for all of us when the majority of game studios use Gameworks.
DXR has been a pretty big disappointment. Now, if the value is about equal ignoring DXR I would choose nVidia. Basically I agree with you just had to throw that DXR jab in there.

Generally AMD gets overhyped, then comes in $50-100 more than it should be (for the top card).
 

euskalzabe

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DXR has been a pretty big disappointment. Now, if the value is about equal ignoring DXR I would choose nVidia. Basically I agree with you just had to throw that DXR jab in there.
Ha, I get it, but I woudn't say DXR is a disappointment: it's a fantastic advancement that is changing how games are made. The problem is the RTX implementation in the 20 series is quite weak, which is exactly why I haven't bought one, it's not good value at all. Still, I appreciate that it's a 1st gen product and both NV and AMD will get exponentially better in a few years (that's the benefit of gen1 tech, the advancement tends to be astounding in the first few years).

It makes absolute sense though. It's new tech, gen1. Want to participate in it? Pay through the roof to get it. When I was 20 I may have bought a 2060, but now fifteen years later... I have a family, house mortgage, international travel and social life that take precedence over experiencing higher FPS raytracing :)
 

sc5mu93

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If the pricing holds out to be true, really disappointing. Navi has been held out as Polaris replacement. Polaris 8GB (RX 480) debuted at 230 USD MSRP. 399 and 499 is not even in the same ballpark..That's the Vega 56/64 replacements.
 

Dayaks

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Ha, I get it, but I woudn't say DXR is a disappointment: it's a fantastic advancement that is changing how games are made. The problem is the RTX implementation in the 20 series is quite weak, which is exactly why I haven't bought one, it's not good value at all. Still, I appreciate that it's a 1st gen product and both NV and AMD will get exponentially better in a few years (that's the benefit of gen1 tech, the advancement tends to be astounding in the first few years).

It makes absolute sense though. It's new tech, gen1. Want to participate in it? Pay through the roof to get it. When I was 20 I may have bought a 2060, but now fifteen years later... I have a family, house mortgage, international travel and social life that take precedence over experiencing higher FPS raytracing :)
Oh you’re right again. I meant RTX. My disappointment is more with the lack of implementation. I feel nVidia was misleading.

In Metro DXR/RTX is very impressive.

Same main point. It’s not going to go well if AMD prices their cards like RTX doesn’t exist.

I’ll try not to be too negative until the reviews actually hit!
 

XoR_

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That's a lot more real than the adored TV nonsense.

Note the pricing. It's not half NVidia pricing, it's exactly matching NVidia pricing.

Just like Radeon 7 matches RTX 2080 pricing.
These cards will fail hard then
Only idiot would choose card without any DXR whatsoever over card with hardware DXR
 

Pieter3dnow

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Snowdog

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Boil

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There is a very good chance that the Singapore-based Sapphire PR rep was quoting Singapore dollars...

SGD$399 = US$289.44

SGD$499 = US$361.98
 

THUMPer

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There is a very good chance that the Singapore-based Sapphire PR rep was quoting Singapore dollars...

SGD$399 = US$289.44

SGD$499 = US$361.98
So 299, and 399 US. I don't think that's going to happen. But I would buy one even though I have a Vega, cuz that's a lot of performance for the price.
 

Auer

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There is a very good chance that the Singapore-based Sapphire PR rep was quoting Singapore dollars...

SGD$399 = US$289.44

SGD$499 = US$361.98
Those would be very good prices if the performance matches 2060/2070. I'd like to believe those # considering that the 2070 has been out for quite a while now and can be had for less than US $499.
 

Gideon

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There is a very good chance that the Singapore-based Sapphire PR rep was quoting Singapore dollars...

SGD$399 = US$289.44

SGD$499 = US$361.98
That may be likely, but still not sure I trust the info yet.
 

jbc029

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Those would be very good prices if the performance matches 2060/2070. I'd like to believe those # considering that the 2070 has been out for quite a while now and can be had for less than US $499.
Same can be said for V56 and V64...for $300-$400, new. Navi is going to be in the same hole that RTX was against pascal. Nothing really compelling against the previous gen and certainly not against discounted previous gen.
 
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sirmonkey1985

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Same can be said for V56 and V64...for $300-$400, new. Navi is going to be in the same hole that RTX was against pascal. Nothing really compelling against the previous gen and certainly not against discounted previous gen.
true but i think they quit manufacturing vega a while ago unlike nvidia who was producing them up to the day RTX released. wouldn't surprise me with all the sales that there isn't a whole lot of vega stock left by the time navi releases. also haven't been paying attention to the tariff bullshit but i wonder what kind of effect that'll have on pricing as well for both nvidia and AMD.
 

Boil

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More take-away from the Sapphire PR rep leak:

No 'Big Navi' (maybe AMD intends Navi 20 to be Instinct only)...?

No hardware raytracing in Navi, but will be in next-gen architecture...

Sapphire will release several custom desings for Navi, including a 'Toxic' variant which will be water cooled...
 

Pieter3dnow

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Instead, he should really be raging against the people who release fairy tale rumors, that build expectations to such a level, that the actual product will be a massive letdown.
Not at all he should just keep his cool until the products are launched. All of the things that AMD did before would not suggest that it would come to this.
 

Pieter3dnow

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More take-away from the Sapphire PR rep leak:

No 'Big Navi' (maybe AMD intends Navi 20 to be Instinct only)...?

No hardware raytracing in Navi, but will be in next-gen architecture...

Sapphire will release several custom desings for Navi, including a 'Toxic' variant which will be water cooled...
Navi 20 supposedly is for next year. The hardware ray tracing is for Playstation 5.
 

Boil

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Navi 20 supposedly is for next year. The hardware ray tracing is for Playstation 5.
Might be that AMD is reserving Navi 20 for specific SKUs...?

Instinct datacenter GPUs (16GB HBM2 & 32GB HBM2 versions)

AMD-only 'FE'-style prosumer workstation/gaming GPUs (16GB HBM2 version)

Radeon Pro GPUs for the Apple Mac Pro (16GB HBM2 & 32GB HBM2 versions)
 

Pieter3dnow

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Might be that AMD is reserving Navi 20 for specific SKUs...?

Instinct datacenter GPUs (16GB HBM2 & 32GB HBM2 versions)

AMD-only 'FE'-style prosumer workstation/gaming GPUs (16GB HBM2 version)

Radeon Pro GPUs for the Apple Mac Pro (16GB HBM2 & 32GB HBM2 versions)
You are talking a segment that is interesting for people that do know what is going on. Next year everyone knows about the from scratch architecture that is coming in 2021 so basically this year is the only year people will buy a new gpu from AMD.
If something happens alike what did with Radeon VII (Navi 20 version) people will not be that interested beside the crowd that does compute. The gaming segment will gladly ignore anything AMD makes in 2020 unless it is very attractive in whichever way AMD can make it so.
So you and a couple /r/AMD posters? That's probably not gonna bring in a lot of cash.
Yep and why would AMD just do that it makes no sense.
 

Xmenwhite

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The 499USD and the 399USD for the AMD Navi GPUs
One being faster than the RTX 2070 for 499USD, and the other one being in between RTX 2060 and 2070 performance I don't think
invalidates AdoredTV's current leak. In fact this looks like a 70 dollar markup of the RX 3080 XT and the RX 3090 which have the performance described here.

The no big Navi is in that there is no Navi that is past 64CU as he sites there is no 5120CU Navi GPU as some people in the tech press were speculating.

The Price and Performance targets also lineup very similarly with AdoredTV's leak and it could just be an issue of these specific cards being watercooled thus the 70 dollar markup.


If AMD releases lesser cards we could have a RX Vega 64 for 250USD
planned_Navi_GPUs.png
 

Snowdog

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More take-away from the Sapphire PR rep leak:

No 'Big Navi' (maybe AMD intends Navi 20 to be Instinct only)...?

No hardware raytracing in Navi, but will be in next-gen architecture...

Sapphire will release several custom desings for Navi, including a 'Toxic' variant which will be water cooled...
So a 37 minute video to have two talking heads read the same posts we can read in less than 1 minute? Has reading gotten so difficult?

Save yourself 36 minutes and read the post they are discussing:
https://www.overclock3d.net/news/gpu_displays/sapphire_rep_spills_the_beans_on_amd_s_radeon_navi_lineup/1

Or several others already posted with info from the same interview.
 

Snowdog

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If AMD releases lesser cards we could have a RX Vega 64 for 250USD
View attachment 162478
That table is a farce.

The sizing of chips makes no sense. They are building a 64 CU chip and a 56 CU chip? Those are too close. In reality they would just get 56 CU part from disabled 64 CU chip.

The power numbers are utter nonsense as well. They are more wishful thinking, and on top of that don't really scale sensibly on what they present. Clearly just made up numbers by someone clueless.

Also if the table is to be believed, Navi CUs = Vega CUs.

Since it has Navi 20, with 60 CU equal in performance to Vega 20 (Radeon 7) with 60 CUs...
 
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demondrops

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figure it will be subpar to nvidia as always, for past years :p so maybe at best 1080ti/2080 performance somewhere. but i prefer to see the result at best it is qualified speculation.
 

euskalzabe

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I'm not going to comment much more on Navi rumors because it seems pointless now that we just need to wait a few more days. That said, the minimum that AMD needs to offer to be competitive is their raytracing acceleration. They won't have RT hardware per se like Nvidia does with the 20 series, but they better have something to accelerate DXR code via shaders, akin to NV's 16 series. Not great, but at least it's there, and depending on the game you could get some benefit.

If AMD doesn't showcase their RTX counterpart, aka DXR accelerating pipeline = greatly diminished confidence re: their whole GPU plans for the next 2 years.
If AMD doesn't deliver some DXR "acceleration" (even if shader based) in any of the Navi cards = no sale.
 

kirbyrj

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I'm not going to comment much more on Navi rumors because it seems pointless now that we just need to wait a few more days. That said, the minimum that AMD needs to offer to be competitive is their raytracing acceleration. They won't have RT hardware per se like Nvidia does with the 20 series, but they better have something to accelerate DXR code via shaders, akin to NV's 16 series. Not great, but at least it's there, and depending on the game you could get some benefit.

If AMD doesn't showcase their RTX counterpart, aka DXR accelerating pipeline = greatly diminished confidence re: their whole GPU plans for the next 2 years.
If AMD doesn't deliver some DXR "acceleration" (even if shader based) in any of the Navi cards = no sale.
That's absurd. Neither AMD nor Nvidia is going to have a workable mid range DXR card that doesn't shit the bed when it's actually being used for 2 generations (and maybe more).
 

vegeta535

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I'm not going to comment much more on Navi rumors because it seems pointless now that we just need to wait a few more days. That said, the minimum that AMD needs to offer to be competitive is their raytracing acceleration. They won't have RT hardware per se like Nvidia does with the 20 series, but they better have something to accelerate DXR code via shaders, akin to NV's 16 series. Not great, but at least it's there, and depending on the game you could get some benefit.

If AMD doesn't showcase their RTX counterpart, aka DXR accelerating pipeline = greatly diminished confidence re: their whole GPU plans for the next 2 years.
If AMD doesn't deliver some DXR "acceleration" (even if shader based) in any of the Navi cards = no sale.
AMD going to use the next gen consoles to show case their DXR.
 

Dayaks

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Do we have an expected release date for these cards?
 
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