More DLSS...

Armenius

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Ja, that was just the pre-release trailer released earlier today that I put in the PC Gaming thread. The screenshots are also rather useless at this point. Apparently there is currently a tight hold by Kojima and 505 on what publications can show of the game ahead of its PC release "to avoid spoilers," even though the game has been out for 8 months on consoles already.
 

Auer

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ars has a write up on it, claiming FidelityFX CAS works better even on Nv cards:

"DLSS has made some serious strides as a smart, efficient form of TAA, particularly in its "2.0" upgrade in games like Control.
Its "quality" setting in this game looks incredibly handsome in terms of general gameplay; in my tests,
I captured images immediately after a major screen transition, and DLSS preserved an astonishing amount of detail while also applying TAA-like anti-aliasing.
(Upsampling typically stumbles over quick screen transitions, so I made sure to test it with both protocols, and it passes the best in both.)
Plus, if you want it, DLSS' "performance" setting offers a more aggressive upscale option for anyone trying to reach a crazy-high frame rate.
(I'd argue that "performance DLSS" in 4K resembles 1600p resolution, which isn't perfect but is sharper than 1440p, while "quality DLSS" and FidelityFX CAS are both right around 1800p,
which is sometimes good enough for the naked eye.)"

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020...of-death-stranding-is-the-definitive-version/
 

Auer

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And Tom's version:

" As far as image quality goes, playing the game with and without DLSS, I couldn't tell whether it was on or off without looking at the settings or framerate.
I've even got screenshots taken with DLSS using both the quality and performance modes, along with no DLSS and TAA (Temporal Anti-Aliasing).
The performance mode looks just a tad worse, though at higher resolutions it's far less noticeable.
Against TAA, I think DLSS quality mode looks better, partly because TAA tends to over blur things. "

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/death-stranding-pc-dlss-performance-preview
 
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Marees

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Is this neural super sampling by facebook, similar to DLSS ?

https://research.fb.com/blog/2020/07/introducing-neural-supersampling-for-real-time-rendering/

At inference time, our neural network takes as input the rendering attributes (color, depth map and dense motion vectors per frame) of both current and multiple previous frames, rendered at a low resolution. The output of the network is a high-resolution color image corresponding to the current frame. The network is trained with supervised learning. At training time, a reference image that is rendered at the high resolution with anti-aliasing methods, paired with each low-resolution input frame, is provided as the target image for training optimization.
 

Factum

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Marees

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Now we need an image comparison between DLSS and RadeonFX...because claiming stuff is easy, when there are no comparsion.
Until then I would not consider them "equal"...and neither should you.
ExtremeTech mention THG & ArsTechnica


THG and Ars Technica have performance write-ups. The latter tested a 2016 Alienware laptop with a GTX 1060, similar to my own, and found that the system is capable of 60fps at 1440p if you activate AMD’s FidelityFX CAS and use 1440p (ironically, 1440p runs faster than 1080p, according to their testing). Death Stranding also includes a few missions with ties to the Half-Life and Portal universe — these are described as nice tie-ins, but not being worth the price of purchase in and of themselves.

According to Ars, while DLSS 2.0 improves performance on the RTX 2060 Super, AMD’s FidelityFX CAS apparently improves performance more, with better visual fidelity. This is not to imply DLSS 2.0 performs poorly: THG notes that using DLSS 2.0 can boost a desktop RTX 2060 up to 77fps, well above the 60fps threshold.


One interesting difference is THG and Ars award different winners in terms of overall image quality. When describing AMD’s FidelityFX, THG writes: “[T]he sharpening and upscaling causes some visible shimmer. It’s not terrible, and it’s a way to boost framerates that some people will undoubtedly appreciate, but the effect was certainly noticeable when moving around.” Here’s Ars: “FidelityFX CAS preserves a slight bit more detail in the game’s particle and rain systems, which ranges from a shoulder-shrug of, ‘yeah, AMD is a little better’ most of the time to a head-nod of, ‘okay, AMD wins this round’ in rare moments.” Ars takes note of several places where DLSS still struggles with rendering, where AMD FidelityFX renders things perfectly
 

Factum

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ExtremeTech mention THG & ArsTechnica


THG and Ars Technica have performance write-ups. The latter tested a 2016 Alienware laptop with a GTX 1060, similar to my own, and found that the system is capable of 60fps at 1440p if you activate AMD’s FidelityFX CAS and use 1440p (ironically, 1440p runs faster than 1080p, according to their testing). Death Stranding also includes a few missions with ties to the Half-Life and Portal universe — these are described as nice tie-ins, but not being worth the price of purchase in and of themselves.

According to Ars, while DLSS 2.0 improves performance on the RTX 2060 Super, AMD’s FidelityFX CAS apparently improves performance more, with better visual fidelity. This is not to imply DLSS 2.0 performs poorly: THG notes that using DLSS 2.0 can boost a desktop RTX 2060 up to 77fps, well above the 60fps threshold.


One interesting difference is THG and Ars award different winners in terms of overall image quality. When describing AMD’s FidelityFX, THG writes: “[T]he sharpening and upscaling causes some visible shimmer. It’s not terrible, and it’s a way to boost framerates that some people will undoubtedly appreciate, but the effect was certainly noticeable when moving around.” Here’s Ars: “FidelityFX CAS preserves a slight bit more detail in the game’s particle and rain systems, which ranges from a shoulder-shrug of, ‘yeah, AMD is a little better’ most of the time to a head-nod of, ‘okay, AMD wins this round’ in rare moments.” Ars takes note of several places where DLSS still struggles with rendering, where AMD FidelityFX renders things perfectly
Again, I need data (pictures, videoes) because I don't trust the "eyes of reviewers"...I still shudder about the hexagonal "circle" reflections in "Noir", something most reviewers and people missed completely.
Very convenient that this is lacking...
 

RamboZombie

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Again, I need data (pictures, videoes) because I don't trust the "eyes of reviewers"...I still shudder about the hexagonal "circle" reflections in "Noir", something most reviewers and people missed completely.
Very convenient that this is lacking...

Spoken like a true nVidia Jedi - will not be swayed by false prophets - and shuddering due to perceived lackluster graphics - a champion for quality!
 

Factum

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Spoken like a true nVidia Jedi - will not be swayed by false prophets - and shuddering due to perceived lackluster graphics - a champion for quality!
There is a reason we read reviews and look at the presented data and not just take your word for anything.
You opnion does not matter and it never will...learn to live with it.
 

RamboZombie

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There is a reason we read reviews and look at the presented data and not just take your word for anything.
You opnion does not matter and it never will...learn to live with it.
ohh, sorry - did i imply somewhere that my opinion matters.. at all?
 

Snowdog

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Spoken like a true nVidia Jedi - will not be swayed by false prophets - and shuddering due to perceived lackluster graphics - a champion for quality!
Both Digital Foundry and Hardware Unboxed did VERY detailed dive into previous DLSS 2.0 titles and found them to be quite remarkable. MUCH better than a simple resize and sharpen.

Now we have someone at Ars Tech reporting they looked at it, and a Simple Resize and sharpen is better. This is back to DLSS 1.0 level.

This is an inconsistency that needs to be resolved.

Either DLSS 2.0 is failing on this title, or the guy at ARS is not an accurate critical observer.

We need more data to find to understand which it is.
 

cybereality

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Also, I just got an HDR monitor and I noticed DLSS doesn't work right with HDR.

At least on Metro, not sure there are a lot of other games with DLSS and HDR but it definitely messed that game up (super faded colors).
 

Snowdog

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Also, I just got an HDR monitor and I noticed DLSS doesn't work right with HDR.

At least on Metro, not sure there are a lot of other games with DLSS and HDR but it definitely messed that game up (super faded colors).
IIRC, Metro has DLSS 1.0 which has to be trained with each game. Probably was trained with HDR off. Yet another reason why DLSS 1.0 sucked. It's fragile. If the conditions it was trained under change, it can break.
 

reaper12

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Unless something changed, AMD sharpen filter is no way as good as DLSS 2.0, not even close. I've tested both.
Fidelity FX had a major update in the middle of May this year.

Also, I am sure it's like DLSS 2.0, some games are better than others.
 

cybereality

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If you have any of the games that supports Fidelity FX you could check it out on your 5700xt.
Yeah, I'm downloading Gears 5. Was thinking of waiting on that game but the 50% off on Steam seemed like a good buy.
 

cybereality

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Okay, I tried Fidelity FX in Gears. It does work. It's not the same as DLSS, they are accomplishing different things.

I also realized Rage 2 supports it, and it's on by default. I actually dropped 36 hours on this game recently, so I tried today with it off. It works.

There was a pretty big difference to me, it really made Rage 2 look noticeably nicer with little to no performance drop.

Basically, it is more like DSR/VSR or supersampling, but without any performance cost. The quality is really nice actually.

I believe it's more useful for gamers say on a 1080p monitor that want a little more crispness to the image. It's not a replacement for DLSS.

On 900p and 720p (on a 1080p panel) it did enhance the image quality way beyond standard bicubic upscalers. But it still looked a little fuzzy and turning the sharpening up too far gave bad artifacts.

But it's another option that seems to work well and get quality for free. However it's not a home run hit like DLSS 2.0 where you're getting double the performance.
 

cybereality

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So I did some more testing. I think Gears 5 was not the best implementation for render scaling.

Was getting all sorts of choppiness and there are a bunch of people with the same issue (nothing to do with AMD).

However, I downloaded Rage 2 to the AMD machine and it works a lot better. In this case, I could set resolution as low as 720p and it still looked okay.

I mean, it was playable at 720p (if a little soft) but with about 50% better performance. 900p seemed more like the sweet spot, and it looked great.

Note that in Rage it said Fidelity FX Sharpening and Upscaling, so maybe this is something more than Gears is doing.

So maybe this is more comparable to DLSS than I initially thought. Not sure how hard it is to implement, but AMD seems to have a decent roster of games using it so far.

Also, not sure if people realize, it works equally on AMD and Nvidia GPUs, so that would be a big reason for developers to support it over being locked to Nvidia.
 

cybereality

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It didn't look like there was any special requirement on Rage 2.

I could select AA off, FXAA, TAA, and FXAA + TAA, and all worked.
 

Snowdog

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It didn't look like there was any special requirement on Rage 2.

I could select AA off, FXAA, TAA, and FXAA + TAA, and all worked.
It's just a simple resize plus a sharpen filter. No reason it would have any requirements.
 

reaper12

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So I did some more testing. I think Gears 5 was not the best implementation for render scaling.

Was getting all sorts of choppiness and there are a bunch of people with the same issue (nothing to do with AMD).

However, I downloaded Rage 2 to the AMD machine and it works a lot better. In this case, I could set resolution as low as 720p and it still looked okay.

I mean, it was playable at 720p (if a little soft) but with about 50% better performance. 900p seemed more like the sweet spot, and it looked great.

Note that in Rage it said Fidelity FX Sharpening and Upscaling, so maybe this is something more than Gears is doing.

So maybe this is more comparable to DLSS than I initially thought. Not sure how hard it is to implement, but AMD seems to have a decent roster of games using it so far.

Also, not sure if people realize, it works equally on AMD and Nvidia GPUs, so that would be a big reason for developers to support it over being locked to Nvidia.

Thanks for reporting back. Knew it supported both AMD and Nvidia's GPUs, just wanted to see did it work better on AMD's.

It's going to interesting to see how much further they can take it. It's improving all the time.
 

Armenius

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F1 2020 has both FidelityFX Upscaling and Sharpening, so I am going to take a look at it. The game already looks damned good, so it should be easy to spot any image degradation. What I have seen of CAS has been really hit and miss, though.
 

cybereality

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I thought Radeon Image Shapening was okay, but there were too many artifacts to be solid.

It seems they added a sharpness percentage now in the driver panel, and that does help a bit.

However FidelityFX is a step beyond RIS and doesn't suffer from as many artifacts.
 

noko

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Need some FidelityFX images for comparison. Great at least it is agnostic to GPU or at least the newer generations of GPUs.
 
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