TaintedSquirrel
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I mean it took me about 150 hours to fully clear the entire trilogy and approx 2 minutes of that was the ending. ME3 wrapped up a bunch of other storylines splendidly.
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Mass Effect: Andromeda
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M76
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In some games a bad ending can ruin the experience. However in ME3's case it was not "that bad". After the extended cut it was acceptable. And I still feel that the real "ending" is the indoctrination theory, artistic integrity be damned.
I disagree. I think the original ending was like a punch in the stomach. I wanted to throw up after watching that pile of shit. That said, the Extended Cut was "better" and was the best they could achieve while "maintaining artistic integrity" as their PR machine put it. My take on that is that, its the best they could give us while not admitting that they were totally fucking wrong with their hipster BS ending. BioWare/EA were absolutely right in that they can use what ever artistic vision they want to finish their story. However, I felt that the original ending and even the EC is badly written and incongruent with the established lore and is too thematically different from the nearly 40 hours of game that precedes that part of the story to be anything but trash.
On the upside, the mod community has made great strides in making Mass Effect 3 the game it always should have been. If you gather the right collection of mods, virtually everything BioWare fucked up or didn't do right from the textures and romances all the way to the game's ending has been addressed in a much more satisfactory way making it the best Mass Effect game by far. JohnP's Alternate MEHEM (Mass Effect Happy Ending Mod) basically achieves what we always wanted using only footage and assets created by BioWare, and it closes the chapter of Shepard's story in a more satisfactory way. Since BioWare hates picking canon endings and doesn't seem likely to create a direct sequel to Mass Effect 3, the alternate endings are just as valid as anything in the actual game. There are some other ending mods, but I think JohnP's alternate MEHEM is the only one that gets it right while doing so in a high quality way that feels like its part of the original game and not fan-fiction. The original MEHEM isn't bad, but the added sections have a noticeable drop in quality compared to the official material. I think it was too ambitious in what it set out to do, although I still consider it a step up from the original bullshit ending and even the EC.
You don't need to live in a fantasy land of "head canon" and suffer through a mission and ending that's a soul sucking beat down anymore. You can flat out download fixes and improvements for the game that make it worth another playthrough or more.
It does wrap up a lot of story lines in very satisfying ways. The Krogan story arc not only wraps up nicely, but it does so in a variety of different ways based on your decisions throughout the trilogy. Rannoch and the Geth/Quarian story line does so as well although it lacks the amount of variation that the Krogan story arc does. Both are realyl good though. The problem is that all that ME3 did right was thrown in the trash by the original ending. The EC does better, with the Galaxy and even Shepard's crew getting an ending they deserve. However, I never felt that Shepard got a good ending and I still think not ending the game with Harbinger front and center as the main bad guy was a horrendous decision.
I couldn't disagree more. The original nihilistic ending wasn't remotely satisfying and made the journey feel entirely fucking pointless. After all the time and money we had to invest in the series to reach that point, BioWare didn't do right by its fans, supports, and ultimately customers. Mass Effect 3's incongruent ending felt rushed and ultimately was rushed and didn't meet the standard of quality we saw in the previous games or even the rest of ME3 as a whole. We got a sub-par product after BioWare had verbally promised more than what was delivered. Normally, I'm the first to call people out on being entitled but I don't think that's the case here.
I think as customers and as fans we did deserve more than what we got. And frankly, it seems obvious by all the modding work done on the game that the fan base still felt that the game was lacking and that it deserved more to the point of taking it upon themselves to mod a game that was locked down to prevent us from doing just that.
All that said, I think Andromeda got a raw deal and its a much better game than people give it credit for. Not only did social media prove what a cancer it is, but I think it suffered from fans of the series being too critical after the fiasco that was ME3's ending.
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It needs to be much more than a Destiny clone and especially coming from Bioware. Not much excitement on my part at present.
It isn't that the Ryder siblings weren't developed enough, but rather that they just weren't as much fun to play as Shepard was. Their actions were far more tempered and less extreme towards one direction or another. BioWare cited that the Paragon and Renegade mechanics were and should be unique to Shepard alone, but this isn't true. The protagonist of Mass Effect Infiltrator had the same mechanic and it worked very well in that story. The dialog was in some instances written better than it was in the trilogy and in others, it was totally cringe worthy. Even more annoying is the fact that the dialog wheel usually gave you more choices than Shepard had, but all the dialog is so similar between each choice that it was hardly memorable. In subsequent playthroughs I couldn't remember what I picked on previous runs and didn't really notice differences when I was sure that I did. About the only thing you could do was make Ryder a "Ryan Reynolds" lite and pick the smart ass stuff all the time. That or being professional all the time was all that you could really discern and even then, not necessarily on a conversation by conversation basis.
The story, outside of the Kett as the bad guys, was actually very good despite being clearly derivative of the Reaper / Prothean story arc. Overall, it had too many plot threads with many of those threads being under utilized or realized in any meaningful way as they were clearly intended to be continued in future installments of the series at the cost of making Andromeda worse for it. The game also suffers from typical open world pacing issues. That said, the technical issues are often overblown. I've said it before and I'll keep saying that it's better than the trilogy on a technical level, even when talking about animations. There are far fewer clipping problems and errors in Andromeda. The problem was is that the facial animation was too poor given the excellent head models, which either creates an uncanny valley effect or just looked stupid because the software that governed it didn't work right. At version 1.10, the game is better animated than anything in the original trilogy. Andromeda also handled its end-game mechanics far better than the last installment of the trilogy, and felt more like what Priority Earth should have been. Both in scope and execution. The set pieces and main story arc are fun and satisfying, and the end boss battle is simple although fits well into the story rather than coming across as purely a video game boss as has sometimes been an issue in many games. Mass Effect didn't usually suffer from this as boss battles were always handled in unique ways that worked with the lore very well.
As is the case with ME3, and to a lesser extent the rest of the trilogy, ME:A is better with mods. Many of the mods out there address some quality of life issues within the game that make for a more enjoyable experience. Of course the combat is excellent and while it departs from the series more cover based shooting mechanics, it works very well most of the time. In replaying the trilogy, I found myself missing the profile system and other capabilities you have in Andromeda. However, I do miss some of Shepard's combat abilities such as Adrenaline Rush (soldier) and being able to grab people over cover and stab them.
On the topic of Anthem:
Given what little we know about Anthem, I'm hardly excited about it. Plus, the news about it isn't generally all that encouraging. I'm expecting some SJW friendly horse shit and something without any depth of story or characters given EA/BioWare's change in direction as the game's development is being made into a "game as a service" type of offering. That means generic and bland MMO type content at best. The fact that they supposedly brought Anita Sarkeesian into the office to take a look at the game's development isn't a good sign either. Anything that would make that FemNazi libtard happy is probably not something that I'd be interested in.
M76
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LOL, this is becoming a pattern now, you again asserting a disagreement where none exists. Have you read my original review of ME3? Probably not, or you forgot, whatever. I said the exact same thing.That the original ending was complete garbage, I was outraged. And the EC only made it barely acceptable at face value.
I think mehem and other attempts at "garage" fixes for the game, are shameful garbage. They degrade the experience so much that I can't shake the feeling that I'm experiencing something fake and unofficial. I never could get into those. But the Indoctrination Theory works without a single modification to the game, it even works better with the original pre EC ending. So that is how I choose to interpret the ending, and yes that way it is slighlty open ended, but there is nothing wrong with something being open ended. This is a recurring debate in TV series junkie circles. There are some people who refuse to start watching series that have no ending. I think that's a stupid attitude. You refuse to treat yourself to 100 hours of bliss, because there is no 1 minute monologue at the end that ties everything up? That's irrational. to me it is much worse when a story gets an ending but it's not to my liking. And usually endings are not up to the level that I expected.
That's why I choose the IT, that way Harbinger is the main enemy.
BTW as I remember the Geth/Quarian story line have just as much variation as the Krogan, if not more.
What's becoming a pattern is your consistent failure to comprehend what you wrote. Here it is again in case you had a dissociative episode.
You said that in some games a bad ending can ruin the experience and that in ME3's case it wasn't that bad. This is precisely what I disagreed with. I am not manufacturing a disagreement. You said something I don't agree with. I followed up your post with one of my own where I provided an opinion that dissented from yours. I felt it was THAT bad. I felt the original ending did ruin the experience. I felt sorry I ever got into the series after finishing the 3rd game for the first time. This opinion is vastly different from what you said above. We only agree so much as the Extended Cut was somewhat acceptable given the framework of what we were given originally. That's it.
Secondly, I don't remember what you said. Keep in mind that I have over 50,000 posts and I've read far more posts than I've written. What one person said years ago in a thread that large doesn't always stand out in my mind. What does stand out is posts like the ones I've quoted here where I disagree with you and you reply with a statement about how I'm manufacturing disagreement when I'm clearly not.
As per the emerging pattern, you have absolutely no fucking clue what you are talking about. You are once again outright ignoring what I said, and yet quoting what I said. You don't know what you are talking about. Yes, the original MEHEM does come across that way, but the alternate version of it (JAM) only uses assets created by BioWare. It doesn't play or come across as a hack at all. Many of the better mods make use of cut content, that's in the games filles that weren't finished or were cut for some reason. Others may re-order some content so that it works better. Some conversations were taken out and restored via mods. Games aren't unlike movies in that they sometimes have extra stuff that was cut for pacing or any number reasons. In fact, some parts of the game got moved around late in developement and parts of it go unused as a result. Some decisions. Like who is romanceable by a given gender are changed last minute leaving it possible for modders to change how the game behaves using what the original developer made.
An example of this is Kaiden Alekno being romanceable by BroShep in ME1. This was cut from the final game, but can be restore via save game editing. Another is with the Cerberus Coup on the Citadel. This was originally supposed to take place at the end of the game after you were transported to the Citadel but was moved for reasons which remain unknown. In the case of the mod I'm talking about, there is nothing fake going on because the changes are subtle, yet important as they change the feel of the game's ending without actually changing what's presented to us. This is what the Extended Cut did anyway, and most of the added content is retained albeit with a slight context change.
The Indoctrination Theory doesn't work because the evidence for it is vague and only circumstantial. In fact, much of what was pointed out by people, such as in the Angry Joe video on the subject are clearly visual errors which were a result of the game's rushed release and poor graphics quality overall. Bad textures about in the series, but ME3 has them in droves and its painfully obvious when they repurposed assets from ME2 and reduced the size of those textures from that game to levels where they are barely recognizable. Evidence such as the Earth based texture markings in the Citadel interior, such as "8M8" marking I think it is are a product of how the textures are repurposed for multiple parts of the game and rushed level design. There was also a call out to flat textures that look pulled from ME1 being used to represent corpses. The effect ended up being creepy and sureal, but its a product of rushed design rather than a creative decision. Its pretty clear some of that was used during the design phase as stand-ins to be dealt with later but that didn't happen. This too is a standard practice in game design. When you look at the "evidence" for IT in hind sight, and in the context of the EC and subsequent content from BioWare, we can address those pieces of evidence almost 1 for 1 and disprove them.
The fan base was reaching for any way to salvage the game and reconcile what they had seen with their expectations of how things should have ended. Back in the day, I wanted to see the same things as evidence of superior writing that was on par with earlier parts of the game. I wanted to see what was a master stroke of a plot that could pay off later. Then BioWare announced that the IT was bunk and that it would release the EC which would provide new context for the ending and change our opinions on the state of the galaxy. That's exactly what BioWare did. BioWare told us that IT wasn't true and that everyone's "head canon" as it became known was fucking wrong.
The difference between you believing in the Indoctrination Theory and what mods like JAM do is simple. BioWare told you that you were wrong. What's presented in JAM specifically is only what's already in the game. It doesn't change the story or the outcome of that story. Most of what you see is identical to what you see in the "Destroy" or "Renegade" ending with full EMS. The ending only differs in that you have the option to delete the Catalyst, or Star Brat from the game. The Crucible fires automatically destroying the Reapers. In the stock Destroy Ending, Shepard is clearly seen as being alive in rubble. The only change here is that this part comes earlier, and Shepard is seen at the memorial scene putting Admiral Anderson's name up on the Normandy memorial. They get a hug with their love interest if they have one and that's it. Everything else, from the slide show to Hackett's monollog are all retained.
Everything you see uses in game assets and appears in the endings anyway. The only thing you really get is the memorial scene, and that was accomplished by replacing two mesh's with other mesh's and textures in game. It provides a satisfying end to the trilogy without rewriting it. In the destroy ending, Shepard is clearly shown to be alive. The only difference is that this scene occurs earlier and you get one final scene with your crew. It doesn't change what we are shown in that ending. There are no plot revelations and nothing really changes. Yet, the subtle difference creates closure and feels more satisfying. This is no different than the Phantom Edit for Episode I, which made minor changes to the movie which were for the better by cutting out unnecessary shit which felt incongruent to the story and sometimes even the universe lore. Removal of the Star Brat makes the ending feel congruent with the series and keeps the portrayal of the Reapers more consistent through the series instead of radically altering it with nonsense at the end.
People who still want to support IT and proclaim it as the truth in any form are no different than 9/11 conspiracy nut jobs and people who believe in alien implants. Even when confronted with evidence to the contrary, you refuse to accept that what you like or believe in is right no matter what. BioWare told you IT was inventive, but wrong. Any of the endings you choose at the end of ME3 all point away from the veracity of the Indoctrination Theory. What it boils down to is this: What I see when I complete my modded ME3 is an ending that's exactly the same, but is presented in a slightly different way that changes how I feel about it. When you complete and ME3 play through, you inevitably sit there watching something that contradicts IT and goes along with BioWare's statement that you are flat out wrong.
Your interpretation of the ending does not change how the ending is perceived by the masses, and it doesn't change the fact that BioWare already said it was wrong and the Extended Cut further reinforces this. Obviously, you are free to do whatever you like and a dillusional view of the ending makes it an easier pill to swallow, who am I to judge? Two changes to the ending makes it perfectly acceptable for me, but at least I can see it every time I replay the series. There are a few alternate ending mods, but as I said earlier, JAM doesn't feel like a hack or low quality. It doesn't feel incongruent with the series. In fact, JAM was created as an alternative for MEHEM because MEHEM adds custom content which isn't on par with what BioWare did, complete with garbage voice acting. Although, the MEHEM ending as a whole isn't bad, the drop in quality in specific spots makes it come across exactly in the way you described above. JAM doesn't.
I don't disagree with any of the above. In fact, I completely agree. I like open ended endings because most of the time, capping the end of a story is often unsatisfying. Writing good endings is hard and the old cliche of riding off into the sunset in a way that doesn't preclude a continuation may seem like a cop out, but rarely does it offend anyone or create strong feelings that are negative. I can list off a ton of TV shows that are utterly ruined by bad endings. Its gotten to the point where I will look up the ending of a show before I invest the time in binge watching it. I've been disappointed so many times that I'd rather save myself the heartache of investing in something just to get a kick in the teeth at the end.
You remember it incorrectly. The short version is this:
The Krogan Story Arc Variations:
Genophage cured, Mordin dies, Eve lives, Wreav In charge.
Genophage cured, Mordin dies, Eve lives, Wrex In charge.
Genophage cured, Mordin dies, Eve dies, Wreav In charge.
Genophage cured, Mordin dies, Eve dies, Wrex In charge.
Genophage not cured, Mordin dies, Eve lives, Wreav in charge.
Genophage not cured, Mordin dies, Eve lives, Wrex in charge.
Genophage not cured, Mordin dies, Eve dies, Wreave in charge.
Genophage not cured, Mordin dies, Eve dies, Wrex in charge.
Genophage not cured, Mordin lives, Eve dies, Wreav in charge.
The Quarian / Geth Story Arc Variations:
Geth and Quarians at peace, Legion dies, Tali lives.
Geth and Quarians at peace, Legion dies, Admiral Raan lives
Geth die, Quarians live, Legion dies, Tali lives.
Geth die, Quarians live, Legion dies, Admiral Raan lives.
Geth live, Quarians die, Legion dies, Tali dies.
Geth live, Quarians die, Legion dies, Raan dies.
I've played through the game some 14 times now, maybe more.
That and the fact that if it was intended to be the ending... well nothing was ever done to reveal or capitalize on that fact. If they did an ending like that then you'd think they would either:
1) Release some DLC when you then find out that is what happened, maybe Shepard starts fighting back and you break out of it and go really fight the reapers.
2) Release the next game based around it, that the great hero got indoctrinated and now you as some new hero have to deal with that or whatever.
It makes absolutely no sense to have some very, very hidden ending/message in there that is then never used, never revealed, never expanded upon. Why would the writers go to all that effort only to drop it, and never say anything about it? It fails the "Which is more likely" test. The more likely answer is that they wrote a shit ending and that is that.
So did the Nexus have no way to scan for Kadara and the clean air, non-radiated planet before the uprising? They have TWO failed Eos colonies and I don't think their water was safe, either? Why not send the ships and weapons that were gonna be stolen anyway to start a military colony?
They didn't get any scans of Havarl and giant pyramids, but also Angaran cities?
They didn't get any scans of Havarl and giant pyramids, but also Angaran cities?
Armenius
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They may have intentionally left it ambiguous until people started bitching about it and the press made it worse by calling their readers entitled and "whiny snot-nosed brats," which caused EA to respond by giving us the condescending fan service in the Citadel DLC.
Maybe, but I doubt it. I mean the whole idea of occams razor/which is more likely really does apply to most things in life. So you have to ask which is more likely that:
1) They had a much more detailed, nuanced, story developed, but hinted at it only in the most minimal ways, many of which appear to be glitches, so that it would be very hard for people to pick up on. Then they wrote in a very ham-fisted ending featuring a very lazy writing trope (deus ex machina) to give a tiny illusion of choice to an otherwise extremely linear event. However after all that, they then chose not to reveal it to the public, capitalize on it, develop it, or anything, but instead just gave everyone the middle finger and abandoned their vision...
or
2) They did a bad job and wrote a shitty emo/hipster plot where "every things sucks, everything is bad, nothing you do matters" and then in the end stuck on a ham-fisted pretend choice that made no sense to try and pretend they were fulfilling their earlier promise of multiple wildly branching endings.
2 is just far more likely.
The Nexus was most likely not able to get detailed scans of these planets because of the Scourge and because of its distance from those worlds. Sensors still have a limited range in the Mass Effect universe. You are going to be limited by light speed most of the time. In fact, it was only the Geth that had found anyway around that which is how they knew of viable planets in Andromeda's Heleus Cluster.
Sort of. The game was rushed. BioWare asked its overlords for another extension but were denied. The ending wasn't written until very late in the development process. It was left ambiguous because they didn't have much time to do more with it. The problem is that everyone who watched the ending had the impression that the Galaxy was basically left as barely inhabitable and that most of Shepard's allys were going to die. The Normandy was clearly destroyed, the crew marooned and all relays destroyed. The Turians and Quarians on Earth were going to starve and no one could get back home on conventional FTL drives. Krogan would have bred out of control etc. There were too many unanswered questions because the ambiguous ending was far too ambiguous.
The script and plot details for the game were leaked and BioWare rushed to rewrite significant portions of the game as a result. The original plot resolved the threads started on Haestrom in ME2 concerning dark energy which ultimately never came to full fruition in ME3. There is a ton of information out there and all these questions and exactly what went wrong with ME3 is pretty widely known.
RanceJustice
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For what its worth I enjoyed the trilogy, even given its issues. When I played through ME3, all the DLC was already released so my impression of the game was boosted by their inclusion, from Javik to Leviathan to the Citadel and Extended Cut ending itself. I should also mention I completed the trilogy on a fully imported save file, so I got to see extra content that some players may not have. Oh speaking of that... if I was to play a NewGame+ of ME3 , I remember reading that it would only import some of my ME1/ME2 "big" decisions, unlike importing a ME2 file for a first-playthrough of ME3? Seeing this thread reminded me to check the mod scene and I'm seriously impressed - mods like the EGM, MEHEM and others that change, add, and expand the game with enormous amounts of custom content?! Wow! A long time ago when I looked into it there were only some cumbersome graphics mods or non story related things, but there must be some really dedicated fans - I can imagine a EGM + MEHEM (and ME3Recalibrated, plus smaller mods) playthrough would almost be an entirely different experience!
I haven't yet played through Andromeda - it got purged when I cleared Origin to save SSD space. I wonder if there is a similarly in depth mod community for it and if there are any EGM/MEHEM and similar style expansion/remake that are worth adding even for a first playthrough, as Andromeda was noted to have even more significant issues than the classic trilogy/ME3 in both technical and story/presentation elements?
I haven't yet played through Andromeda - it got purged when I cleared Origin to save SSD space. I wonder if there is a similarly in depth mod community for it and if there are any EGM/MEHEM and similar style expansion/remake that are worth adding even for a first playthrough, as Andromeda was noted to have even more significant issues than the classic trilogy/ME3 in both technical and story/presentation elements?
I think people's impression of the game would be different overall if it had been as complete as it is today. The mod community has died down some for ME3, but some modders are still active. I've recently gotten back into it myself. All I do are texture mods though. And yes, EGM+Addons + ME3Recalibrated, Backoff, and MEHEM/JAM do make the game a different experience as well. The game feels more complete. The mods out now are for the most part pretty high quality. At least, the more prominent and well known ones are. With some texture mods, the game's visual appearance isn't too bad given the game's more than 5 years old now.
And no, the mod community for Andromeda isn't nearly as strong. There are a lot of mods out there but most are minor game play tweaks or character mods to add customization that was lacking from the start. Frostbite is notoriously difficult to mod though. I've been debating getting into it because there are some changes I'd like to make to the game.
The Krogan have the same limits on tech or fuel and they built a colony. From the dialogue the Flophouse was going to be really pathetic but it's nice shaded little settlement once you kill everyone. Then the art department makes a point of having
They really build up terraforming Eos, it's so crucial. Kesh knows about Elaaden? It's hot but there are some trees or caves. Smugglers know about Kadara and help from the Angara with the water?
The thing is, everyone who got exiled ended up at the nearest port which was Kadara I believe. Kadara is a hive of scum and villany in which information can be bought and sold. This includes information about the Nexus and what's going on in Heleus. People like Vetra and PeeBee seemed to come and go as they pleased which meant, information was gathered, shared, and probably even traded.
The Krogan that left weren't exiles, they chose to leave and simply went towards one of the other "Golden Worlds." Remember, Krogan can live almost anywhere and settled on a planet they consider easier to live on than their homeworld. Also, the exiles and Krogan still had contact with the Nexus. It wasn't as if information couldn't circulate. The Human Ark arrived more than a year after the Nexus did. APEX missions were already being conducted under Kandros and various shuttles sent out to map the cluster and find resources. This is evidenced by the fact that you find shuttle wreckage all the time. Evidence of Exile / Nexus / Krogan contact abounds in many story arcs such as the whole Spender / Drak / Kesh arcs.
If you don't space bar all the dialog and you actually read the data pads, you'll find there are fewer plot holes than you think.
But the initiative would have Elaaden first if they sent a colony team there before the uprising. They were stubborn on Eos and people got slaughtered, there's that massive Kett base up the ridge.
Tann doesn't say anything about first contact made by the outcasts ten months earlier (probably). If he wants to say it's time for a fresh start and diplomacy, fine, but it's too late to make first contact. The Roekaar obviously aren't on his incompetent or lying timeline and they already know about Milky Way species, attacking Prodromos so more people could die. Bradley should know Roekaar exist before the colony is even there.
Yet they have a big dramatic moment about the Asari pathfinder and who it will be, but there's not much for ousting Tann like Udina. Or even getting Samara killed, killing Wrex, etc.
Tann doesn't say anything about first contact made by the outcasts ten months earlier (probably). If he wants to say it's time for a fresh start and diplomacy, fine, but it's too late to make first contact. The Roekaar obviously aren't on his incompetent or lying timeline and they already know about Milky Way species, attacking Prodromos so more people could die. Bradley should know Roekaar exist before the colony is even there.
Yet they have a big dramatic moment about the Asari pathfinder and who it will be, but there's not much for ousting Tann like Udina. Or even getting Samara killed, killing Wrex, etc.
M76
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It's right there in the very quote where I written: "The extended cut made it acceptable" That clearly implies that it wasn't acceptable before the extended cut. So again, you would do well to exercise some self reflection before going on an all out attack over nothing.
You're acting like your opinion is fact, and everyone else's opinion is plain wrong. Don't do that, it's extremely obnoxious. Maybe I don't remember every minuscule detail 100% accurately, because it was over 5 years ago, but I remember the version that used bioware assets only, and it still felt pretty bad to me. Maybe they cut those assets for a reason. That's my opinion on the matter, if you don't like it too bad, but don't come at me saying that my opinion is wrong.
Half of the story takes place after the cerberous coup, if they did move it they must've moved it very early in development. Yes, there are assets in every large game that are left unused in the finished product, and they make changes to the story during development. But why do you bring this up? That doesn't mean I must by definition like the mods that re-purpose these assets.
LOL, I actually argued against those exact things when they cited those as evidence. But just becuase angryjoe and whoever else made the original indoctrination theory video was wrong about those two things doesn't mean the whole theory has to be thrown out. Yes you can argue away every indirect piece of evidence for the IT as game design. But I certainly don't want to. I said I choose to interpret the ending that way, and I like it. The ones you mention are actually the least compelling clues, and I don't consider them as evidence of the IT either. There are others that are far better. Like the ringing / hum that Vega mentions. Or the oily shadows in your dreams that re-occur during the IM confrontation, which could be a clear reference to what the rachni queen says about the reapers in ME1. Or that the starbrat is the exact same kid that is shown at the start of the game.
And? If bioware said I should jump off a building I wouldn't do that either. Just because the IT is not canon doesn't mean I can't choose it as my preferred interpretation. I never even heard the phrase "head canon" before now.
And besides just because I don't sign up to a theory I can at least entertain the idea. For example the CW theory. Or what later became known as the CW theory. I think it's fucking bonkers, but I can still entertain it as an interesting idea, and I think the lengths they went to to try and "prove" it is beyond amazing. It's a very entertaining series of videos.
I don't like the implications of that version, but that doesn't mean I'm going to call the people liking it clueless.
Deleting the catalyst is a pretty big change, and why would bioware address any fan theory as right or wrong anyway? Bioware confirming or denying anything has no bearing on how I choose to interpret the story that I made my own.
Can't you just entertain the thought for a minute? I understand that they were trying to go for the "best possible" face value ending with these. But to me the IT is much more intriguing, and it actually makes more sense, as Shephard has been exposed to reapers and their artifacts for years, if he/she wasn't indoctrinated by the end of the third game, it would be more unbelievable than anything else.
You're completely off the rails. One is fiction, the others are real world conspiracy theories. That's a huge distinction I shouldn't even need to explain this to you. And I don't proclaim the IT as the truth. I said that it is my chosen interpretation of the game. Nothing more, nothing less. If you can't accept it, that's your burden. Don't act as if I'm engaged in some kind of crime against humanity.
M76
[H]F Junkie
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But why should I care how the masses interpret the game? After contemplating the IT I just can't go back to the face value ending. It's like returning a ferrari for a prius. Even if the ferrari breaks down every now and then and terrible to drive in traffic, I'd still rather have it over the completely well behaved, reliable prius.
Then I stand corrected. I only finished ME3 3 times.
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You have no idea what a verbal attack from me actually looks like.
You misunderstand, the alternate MEHEM doesn't include any new content by BioWare. It removes a couple things and reorders what's there. Pay attention now: It drops the Starbrat entirely (if you wish it to), and it moves the Shepard breathing scene to an earlier point with voiceover from the series in which people are looking for Shepard in the rubble. The only final difference is the memorial scene in which Shepard is present and places Anderson's name on the memorial wall. That's it. There is no unfinished, B-rate unused BioWare content.
Yes, I can throw the theory out because BioWare said it was wrong AND because the Extended Cut proves it isn't true. It's all from the horses mouth. Saying otherwise is the video game equivalent to wearing a tinfoil hat and believing 9/11 was an inside job. There are certainly a couple of things that do reinforce the idea of IT, but a couple of odd lines or noises out of a 40+ hour game doesn't constitute evidence.
As I said, do what you like. Interpreting something a certain way when evidence contradicts it is called being dilusional.
I don't know that one.
Deleting the Catalyst is a good change and many people agree. It was bad writing that put it in there in the first place. It turns Reapers into puppets, takes away their independence and makes their motivations the action of one rogue AI we meet in the last 10 minutes of the game. It's fucking stupid. It any case, I have no idea what the fuck the CW theory is.
At the time, the indoctrination theory made sense. I was hoping for a DLC where we had to fight through it and snap out of it and get a real ending. I'd have accepted that whole heartedly if that had happened. However, the Extended Cut and Leviathan both discount this theory. In fact, being more or less immune to indoctrination is why Shepard's unique. It's Shepard's force of will that makes him / her special.
Actually, all the conspiracy theory shit and Mass Effect are both works of fiction. I'm not going to address the rest of your overly dramatic nonsense. I'm simply saying that any interpretation of the ending that's flat out refuted by the game's own dialog and its developer is delusional. You can do what you want, I don't care. We'll agree to disagree on anything else.
I'm done going round robin with you on this subject. This thread is about Mass Effect Andromeda, not ME3.
It's weird how there's a dramatic choice on who to help for the Salarian ark mission. Ryder's group is capped at three but Liam and Cora aren't sent to help a Pathfinder and pretty weak civilians? Jaal is always ready. Drack is ironic but saving the Salarian pathfinder is one way to get in good standing with their scientists, etc. Raeka could still die, it's not like she's as powerful as Samara, there's just help from the Tempest for Hayjer to retreat.
M76
[H]F Junkie
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Ah so if it is something you like then it doesn't matter that it contradicts bioware. This is the case in point of your double standard. I'll refrain from arguing with you in the future, to keep my sanity intact.
No, it is bad writing from a pretty objective stance. It a Deus Ex Machinia, although one used in an odd way (normally they bring about good endings). It is lazy, bad, writing when a writer gets themselves in a corner and suddenly a new event or character or object or whatever appears from nowhere, to the complete surprise of the audience, and resolves things. In this case very literally a god from the machine. The whole reason we have terms for shit like this is because it is bad writing tropes that happen far too often.
If anything I've made the ending less contradictory to the rest of the trilogy by installing a simple mod. The Catalyst goes against everything stated and known about the Reapers up to this point. Leviathan tries to reconcile this error in judgment by the writers unsuccessfully. In this case, I simply chose to fix a contradiction in the game through technical means rather than playing "pretend" the story is something it isn't while watching a game's ending that flat out contradicts what I'd like it to be. Look, do what you want. I don't fucking care. Play your game how you want to. I merely went down this road because you said the ending to Mass Effect 3 wasn't so bad that it ruined the entire experience and I disagreed with that statement. You also ran your mouth about mods you don't know shit about so I wanted to set the record straight on that.
For me, the EC was better, but it was still soul crushing to play through everything after the assault on the Cerberus base. The EC being better than the original ending doesn't set a high bar. Its like saying My Little Pony fetish porn is better than standard beastiality porn. While technically it might be slightly less repulsive, neither is good enough or remotely close to what I'm looking for.
Well said and I couldn't agree more. Objectively, its disappointing coming from other parts of the game which are excellent. It would be one thing if we were playing some average 90's FPS game with a lame ass story that no one cared about anyway that took 10 hours to complete. You don't expect good writing in many if not most games. Mass Effect has never been perfect and arguably isn't even that original outside of its presentation. Machine vs. Man as a theme has been done many times, but Mass Effect did it in a way that felt unique even if it wasn't entirely so. The writing quality in Mass Effect 3 has a few holes in it, but when you have writing and branching game play like you do in the Krogan and Quarian / Geth story arcs, you expect a certain level of quality befitting the end of such a great trilogy and that's not what we got. Its obvious the ending wasn't on par with earlier parts of the game and it didn't meet the standard of quality set in the rest of the game or series. It sure as hell wasn't good enough for a trilogy that takes over 100 hours to complete. There is more evidence in the game for what they had intended, but sadly there isn't enough there to restore or mod into something useful with any quality.
In the modified ending, there is no stupid Star Brat and you simply fire the Crucible and destroy the Reapers. Its still technically Deus Ex Machina, but its better than the contradiction and some bullshit about some kid Shepard met once he couldn't save causing him these stupid dreams which aren't really even traumatic. Oh, BTW, the better dreams mod fixes that garbage too. Shepards dreams are now filled with the traumas and flashbacks of events in his or her life.
Ya the ending is particularly bad, in light of what the game is. It is the culmination of an epic trilogy, one that until the third looked to be a three act heroic epic. So you would think such an ending would be great. Well written, satisfying, answering enough questions to make people happy while leaving enough open for future titles, all that good shit. I mean they should have literally been working on it from the time that ME2 was given the green light.
But no, it is something thrown in as a clear afterthought that explains nothing, is really stupid, and really lazy. It reminds me to the ending in Deus Ex HR which, appropriately enough, features a massive "Deux Ex Machina" moment where it is "press button to choose ending". It sucks in that game, and is one of the reasons I maintain it is a good game, not a great one, but it is far less of a problem since it isn't a capstone to such a story driven series.
I thought in ME3 we'd see some wild divergence, like if you went the renegade route you'd work with Cerberus to control the Reapers and install humanity as the galaxy's rulers and if you went the paragon route you'd unify the races and destroy the Reapers once and for all. Only way you'd get a "bad" ending is if you waffled and didn't commit to either side or work hard enough. But no, instead no matter what you do, it all gets set aside and you get a really, really stupid moment and unsatisfying ending.
But no, it is something thrown in as a clear afterthought that explains nothing, is really stupid, and really lazy. It reminds me to the ending in Deus Ex HR which, appropriately enough, features a massive "Deux Ex Machina" moment where it is "press button to choose ending". It sucks in that game, and is one of the reasons I maintain it is a good game, not a great one, but it is far less of a problem since it isn't a capstone to such a story driven series.
I thought in ME3 we'd see some wild divergence, like if you went the renegade route you'd work with Cerberus to control the Reapers and install humanity as the galaxy's rulers and if you went the paragon route you'd unify the races and destroy the Reapers once and for all. Only way you'd get a "bad" ending is if you waffled and didn't commit to either side or work hard enough. But no, instead no matter what you do, it all gets set aside and you get a really, really stupid moment and unsatisfying ending.
https://www.engadget.com/2018/04/17/mass-effect-anthem-casey-hudson
Casey Hudson is parroting EA corporate talking points and nothing else here. Not much to this.
Casey Hudson is parroting EA corporate talking points and nothing else here. Not much to this.
TaintedSquirrel
[H]F Junkie
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From jason schreier
https://kotaku.com/sources-bioware-plans-a-complete-overhaul-for-anthem-1839892415
Based on the tweet we are looking at another reboot and not ME:A 2. Which is a shame because ME:A ended on such huge cliffhangers.
https://kotaku.com/sources-bioware-plans-a-complete-overhaul-for-anthem-1839892415
Based on the tweet we are looking at another reboot and not ME:A 2. Which is a shame because ME:A ended on such huge cliffhangers.
IdiotInCharge
NVIDIA SHILL
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2003
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Created a thread for the new game over here: https://hardforum.com/threads/new-mass-effect-game.1988776/
Heskaarl is the Angara N7? I wonder if they have their version of SPECTRE or will develop it now exposed to Milky Way (but especially human) deception, covert ops etc. but it has to be against external threats due to their connections.
And sever your connection to the Khala... wait, not Protoss.
And sever your connection to the Khala... wait, not Protoss.
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I finished this game for the first time a few days ago. It wasn't the complete shitshow it was originally reported to be but it also wasn't nearly as good as it should have been. I can deal with the Shepard-lite of the protagonist but the open world setup for the game was a terrible decision. There were so many times it got extremely repetitive to the point where I wanted to stop playing the game and the amount of time to complete it was way overboard in my opinion (and I didn't complete everything by any means.)
I wouldn't have minded starting another playthrough to change things around regarding combat but it wasn't worth the headaches and boredom from having to repeat so many tedious things.
I wouldn't have minded starting another playthrough to change things around regarding combat but it wasn't worth the headaches and boredom from having to repeat so many tedious things.
Armenius
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2014
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The underlying game design concepts are solid, but it definitely feels like the game was quickly slapped together. I've said before that the updated gameplay mechanics are especially good. The verticality adds a good amount of depth, in particular.