Mass Effect 3 SPOILERS THREAD

Damar

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EA thats who
They closed another thread where they claimed people were making up lies and such about EA/BW.

Guess they were worried about copyright infringment since they did it so well on ME3, they didnt want others doing it. :p
 

Elios

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yea they closed the PR thread
lame its not lies when its true

EA does buy reviews and one that thinks other wise needs to read up on the Kain and Linch scandal
maybe not directly but im sure there was an implied if you dont give us good reviews we wont spend as much for advertising
 

Damar

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yea they closed the PR thread
lame its not lies when its true

EA does buy reviews and one that thinks other wise needs to read up on the Kain and Linch scandal
maybe not directly but im sure there was an implied if you dont give us good reviews we wont spend as much for advertising
Yup, and they lied through their teeth about how much choice we'd have in ME3 and how many variations we'd see at the end.

Its ok when THEY do it, but if someone else does it, whoa, thats not ok.

Nice double standard they have. :rolleyes:

I suspect they've been saying "thats fake" to a lot of the little truths leaking out just to cover their ass when at least some of those leaks are true. At this point I dont see me buying another EA/BW title again, I just dont trust them at all anymore after this whole mess.

Never been so disappointed in the end of a game that meant so much to me and that I had invested so much time in. Even now I hate the feeling I get when I think of the "ending".
 

stewartjm

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It's been over a week since I finished ME3. I still feel ill, betrayed, and duped, when I think about the ending. Ray Muzyka has spoken, and is unable or unwilling to make any concrete statements about fixing it.

Since money(or it's lack) is the only message corporations understand, I'm taking advantage of Amazon's generous offer, and returning my pre-ordered copy of the N7 Collector's edition, for a full refund. If it's ever fixed, maybe I'll buy it again, but I'm not holding my breath.
 

J W

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Amazon offering a refund for a PC game is just crazy to me. Every company should follow Amazon's example on how to operate.

Also, everyone knows that EA donates all of its money to the Human Fund :p
 

ballpoint

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I've never heard such idiocy (in the games-as-storytelling context) as this talk of BIoware "fixing" the ending. They will follow up on the ending with DLC and that will probably round out the story and give some of the details we're wondering about. But the concept that BioWare is going to patch a different ending into the main ME3 game or something is utterly silly, naive, and shows a weird sense of entitlement on the part of those demanding it (or even thinking it's possible).
 
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CrimsonKnight13

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I've never heard such idiocy as this talk of BIoware "fixing" the ending. They will follow up on the ending with DLC and that will probably round out the story and give some of the details we're wondering about. But the concept that BioWare is going to patch a different ending into the main ME3 game or something is utterly silly, naive, and shows a weird sense of entitlement on the part of those demanding it (or even thinking it's possible).
I wouldn't call it entitlement. More like a plea for them to make the game worth it in the end. The endings were a joke to anyone who knows the series. I don't blame anyone for wanting something better.
 

stewartjm

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The endings were a joke to anyone who knows the series.

They're worse than a joke, they're a straight up mega-troll. Given that by almost any objective standard, the writing of the end is just dreck, not even fit for the slush pile, my favorite pet theory, is that the writers did it intentionally, not to spite to the fans, but to spite EA for forcing them to follow such an unrealistic time table. Though I'm sure we'll never know the real story.
 

ballpoint

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I wouldn't call it entitlement. More like a plea for them to make the game worth it in the end. The endings were a joke to anyone who knows the series. I don't blame anyone for wanting something better.
Mass Effect is pretty much my favourite series of games (if we're talking single player then there's no debate, it's my favourite). I didn't love the ending, but I didn't hate it. It seemed to fit in with the concept that this was an all-or-nothing battle for the continued existence of everything in galaxy... usually when the stakes are that high there are elements at play which you can't be aware of, and certainly there are elements which you can't control or affect.

If the whole "indoctrination" theory is true then I like the ending more. I sat there in front of the 3 paths for at least ten minutes debating over whether to Control or Destroy. I didn't want to kill the Geth or EDI. Finding out that Control or Synthesis were the wrong choices left me happy... I don't see how you can play through all three games working to destroy the reapers and then choose one of the other two options. I'd love to see a poll that shows how many people so severely butt-hurt over the end of ME3 chose Control or Synthesis.

I chose to destroy the reapers, as had been my stated goal for three games (well, for all of ME2 and 3 anyhow). The reapers are dead and earth lives on... and the citadel and mass relays, which were elements of the reaper control cycle, are gone or out of commission too. Fuck 'em. I'm waiting for the DLC followup to ME3 and would love to play ME4 where you build up galactic civilization by opening a new mass relay network or something (only 1% of the stars in the milky way have even been explored by citadel species in ME continuity).
 
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J W

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i hate the ending because the long-running themes the series seemingly prided itself on were never really touched on in the conclusion. Does BioWare want my lasting impression of the series to be "survival at any cost"? That's just depressing.

The conclusion to this game is not complete in my eyes and I would welcome any change/addition. This is a story after all. This is not real life.
 

Zxcs

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Just completed the game and chose to destroy the reapers.

How does Shepard's interactions in chat affect the ending? Did it even matter when I chose 'red' chat options rather than the 'blue' ones? Also, what does reputation do? I'm almost at max reputation but haven't completed it yet.
 

ballpoint

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... actually there are subtle variations beyond the colour changes. The changes are based on paragon/renegade levels and how you handled the dialogues with TIM. There are good/bad variants on each ending. In the Good/Destroy ending the blast wave in London destroys the reapers, but not the alliance soldiers, who are even shown cheering in victory. In the Bad/Destroy ending the blast wave in London is shown disintegrating the alliance ground troops.
 

KatalDT

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... actually there are subtle variations beyond the colour changes. The changes are based on paragon/renegade levels and how you handled the dialogues with TIM. There are good/bad variants on each ending. In the Good/Destroy ending the blast wave in London destroys the reapers, but not the alliance soldiers, who are even shown cheering in victory. In the Bad/Destroy ending the blast wave in London is shown disintegrating the alliance ground troops.
That's just readiness though.
 

PureBooYah

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That's just readiness though.
I agree with you, but I'll play devil's advocate here. One could argue though that your choices lead to a different readiness which lead to different things happening with each ending.

Also keep in mind the other 2 games also had similar choices at the end that weren't drastically different. No matter what you did during the games, you ended up with the same choices. ME1, save or kill council. ME2, save or destroy base. Only minor differences to the cut scenes at the end, same with ME3. If you look at it this way ME3 actually has more choices at the end ;)
 

Dan_D

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I agree with you, but I'll play devil's advocate here. One could argue though that your choices lead to a different readiness which lead to different things happening with each ending.

Also keep in mind the other 2 games also had similar choices at the end that weren't drastically different. No matter what you did during the games, you ended up with the same choices. ME1, save or kill council. ME2, save or destroy base. Only minor differences to the cut scenes at the end, same with ME3. If you look at it this way ME3 actually has more choices at the end ;)
The endings are 95% all the same. Your color of explosion is really the biggest change amongst all the so called endings. Save for the renegade ending which strives to confuse you more, but sadly offers the most hope. Mass Effect 1 does have only two endings, but your choices during the game counted going into the other two installments. Mass Effect 2 had about 4 endings really. Shepard lives, collector base saved, Shepard lives, collector base destroyed. Shepard dies, collector base saved, Shepard dies collector base destryoed. But there were many possible variations on the number of casualties you took ranging from 0 to 36. (The Normandy's crew of 24 plus Shepard's actual team.) These decisions actually shape the game going into the 3rd installment. Much like ME1's major choices shaped ME2. Some of your choices from ME1 have a fairly significant impact on the game in Mass Effect 3. While it may seem sublte and pretty much the same, the way it shapes each subsequent game isn't. In Mass Effect 3 we have 16 minor variations on the same exact ending. The relays are destroyed,

Let's also not forget the shitty implications of the ending to ME3. The Normandy's attempt to escape a blast wave indicates that more than likely the huge fleet Shepard worked so hard to assemble was completely wiped out and most of the major planets are blasted back into the stone age. Assuming the planets survived. Based on what you see in the galaxy map and based on the Arrival DLC for ME2, it seems unlikely that any star system with a Mass Relay would survive. But let's assume for a moment they blow up gentle the way the device hits them. Any remaining ships in the galaxy which weren't engaged in the fight are all more or less stranged where they are. Sure they have FTL drives of their own, but they are relatively short range. It could take them years to get where they needed to be. Krogan which are cured and left on Earth will be a problem. Turians and Quarians on the planet have no food as they can't eat what the rest of the races can. The situation on Earth would simply breed more violence and it's unlikely that the peace brokered between all of them would last. Oh and let's not forget that the Citadel is blown up and your going to have huge chunks of that falling all over earth. The council, Bailey and the people you helped who were most likely still on the Citadel are all dead.

So the Reapers are gone. Big deal. Once they were finished killing all the people that end up dying anyway they'd leave. So even if the cycle is broken now, it doesn't really matter from a practical standpoint because everyone Shepard gave a damn about (including Shepard) is dead or worse off than they would have been just staying out of the fight and ignoring the Reapers.

Now if the fleets aren't totally wiped out and the Mass Relays do blow up more gently, then it's not as bad. The races of the galaxy still understand the Mass Relay's technology, and Matriarch Atheyta had talked about the Asari building their own relays in ME2. This means the Asari at least might have the capability, or be very close to being able to do so. Which means that the may fracture and divide over a few decades while the relays are replaced. Assuming they can recover well enough to reach that point in a few years. The Asari were among the last attacked and technologically the most advanced society, so they may be in better shape than everyone else. But by the time the galaxy reconnects, Shepard will be little more than a legend to anyone not long enough lived to remember his or her efforts and sacrifice. Still you have the problem of Turian and Quarian fleets having issues with supplies and getting home. Though galaxy wise, Palaven is relatively close to Earth, but it was hit almost as hard as Earth was. So it may or may not be able to sustain the Turian and Quarian fleets should they head there. In 100 years the galaxy could largely bounce back to a pre-Reaper state. The populations may not hit the same numbers, aside from perhaps the Krogan who would either die out or breed like insects depending on whether you cured the Genophage or not. And wars are still most likely inevitable in the future between some of the galactic races. And of course, depending on the ending you chose, the Geth could still be a problem later as they contain Reaper code. As fully functioning individuals, assuming you didn't wipe them out already, they no longer have consensus and can develop infighting and all kinds of social disarray. This could work out well or blow up in everyone's faces. It does however pave the way for them to be the major enemy later on.

I could deal with the second scenario playing out really. The only thing that bothers me about that is the Normandy getting destroyed (again) and the crew of the Normandy getting fucked over so bad. But this is one of the biggest plot holes because they wouldn't just leave the fight and wouldn't just abandon Shepard. Especially in light of the fact that one of your squad mates seems to always step out of the Normandy wreckage. This seems impossible. Likely a dream, or rather hopefully a dream of a dying Shepard. At face value, without wings, I don't know how the hell the ship could have landed so well. Also the crew won't have sufficient provisions to make a real go of survival on a foreign planet. Liara is likely the one to do the best, but Joker will run out of meds, food on the planet may not work for everyone, if Tali is there she's almost certainly going to die. Same for Garrus. If he can eat the food then everyone else dies, etc. This part of the ending is truly what bothers me the most.
 
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Neb

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Since money(or it's lack) is the only message corporations understand, I'm taking advantage of Amazon's generous offer, and returning my pre-ordered copy of the N7 Collector's edition, for a full refund. If it's ever fixed, maybe I'll buy it again, but I'm not holding my breath.
I get the feeling that Amazon is the one that'll be taking most or all of the hit on the refund. Not that they mind, since it's a customer service action that's bound to pay off in terms of PR and future sales.

I wouldn't call it entitlement. More like a plea for them to make the game worth it in the end. The endings were a joke to anyone who knows the series. I don't blame anyone for wanting something better.
A rational plea is appropriate, I agree. But when you have people filing FCC complaints over a game ending? That's a bit excessive and demanding.
 

Elios

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if people still dont get it here is the flow chart for the endings for ME2



and here is effectively the the chart for ME3
 

J W

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I get the feeling that Amazon is the one that'll be taking most or all of the hit on the refund. Not that they mind, since it's a customer service action that's bound to pay off in terms of PR and future sales.
Amazon would make a good corporate overlord. They've taken care of me a bunch in the past.

Also, I bet they throw their weight around more than you think when it comes to dealing with companies like EA.
 

MaZa

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A rational plea is appropriate, I agree. But when you have people filing FCC complaints over a game ending? That's a bit excessive and demanding.

AFAIK only one did that. Or atleast only one did it publicly. He didnt expect results, just wanted to throw some fuel into fire. The retake movement mostly frowned this action.
 

PureBooYah

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The endings are 95% all the same. Your color of explosion is really the biggest change amongst all the so called endings. Save for the renegade ending which strives to confuse you more, but sadly offers the most hope. Mass Effect 1 does have only two endings, but your choices during the game counted going into the other two installments. Mass Effect 2 had about 4 endings really. Shepard lives, collector base saved, Shepard lives, collector base destroyed. Shepard dies, collector base saved, Shepard dies collector base destryoed. But there were many possible variations on the number of casualties you took ranging from 0 to 36. (The Normandy's crew of 24 plus Shepard's actual team.) These decisions actually shape the game going into the 3rd installment. Much like ME1's major choices shaped ME2. Some of your choices from ME1 have a fairly significant impact on the game in Mass Effect 3. While it may seem sublte and pretty much the same, the way it shapes each subsequent game isn't. In Mass Effect 3 we have 16 minor variations on the same exact ending. The relays are destroyed,

Let's also not forget the shitty implications of the ending to ME3. The Normandy's attempt to escape a blast wave indicates that more than likely the huge fleet Shepard worked so hard to assemble was completely wiped out and most of the major planets are blasted back into the stone age. Assuming the planets survived. Based on what you see in the galaxy map and based on the Arrival DLC for ME2, it seems unlikely that any star system with a Mass Relay would survive. But let's assume for a moment they blow up gentle the way the device hits them. Any remaining ships in the galaxy which weren't engaged in the fight are all more or less stranged where they are. Sure they have FTL drives of their own, but they are relatively short range. It could take them years to get where they needed to be. Krogan which are cured and left on Earth will be a problem. Turians and Quarians on the planet have no food as they can't eat what the rest of the races can. The situation on Earth would simply breed more violence and it's unlikely that the peace brokered between all of them would last. Oh and let's not forget that the Citadel is blown up and your going to have huge chunks of that falling all over earth. The council, Bailey and the people you helped who were most likely still on the Citadel are all dead.

So the Reapers are gone. Big deal. Once they were finished killing all the people that end up dying anyway they'd leave. So even if the cycle is broken now, it doesn't really matter from a practical standpoint because everyone Shepard gave a damn about (including Shepard) is dead or worse off than they would have been just staying out of the fight and ignoring the Reapers.

Now if the fleets aren't totally wiped out and the Mass Relays do blow up more gently, then it's not as bad. The races of the galaxy still understand the Mass Relay's technology, and Matriarch Atheyta had talked about the Asari building their own relays in ME2. This means the Asari at least might have the capability, or be very close to being able to do so. Which means that the may fracture and divide over a few decades while the relays are replaced. Assuming they can recover well enough to reach that point in a few years. The Asari were among the last attacked and technologically the most advanced society, so they may be in better shape than everyone else. But by the time the galaxy reconnects, Shepard will be little more than a legend to anyone not long enough lived to remember his or her efforts and sacrifice. Still you have the problem of Turian and Quarian fleets having issues with supplies and getting home. Though galaxy wise, Palaven is relatively close to Earth, but it was hit almost as hard as Earth was. So it may or may not be able to sustain the Turian and Quarian fleets should they head there. In 100 years the galaxy could largely bounce back to a pre-Reaper state. The populations may not hit the same numbers, aside from perhaps the Krogan who would either die out or breed like insects depending on whether you cured the Genophage or not. And wars are still most likely inevitable in the future between some of the galactic races. And of course, depending on the ending you chose, the Geth could still be a problem later as they contain Reaper code. As fully functioning individuals, assuming you didn't wipe them out already, they no longer have consensus and can develop infighting and all kinds of social disarray. This could work out well or blow up in everyone's faces. It does however pave the way for them to be the major enemy later on.

I could deal with the second scenario playing out really. The only thing that bothers me about that is the Normandy getting destroyed (again) and the crew of the Normandy getting fucked over so bad. But this is one of the biggest plot holes because they wouldn't just leave the fight and wouldn't just abandon Shepard. Especially in light of the fact that one of your squad mates seems to always step out of the Normandy wreckage. This seems impossible. Likely a dream, or rather hopefully a dream of a dying Shepard. At face value, without wings, I don't know how the hell the ship could have landed so well. Also the crew won't have sufficient provisions to make a real go of survival on a foreign planet. Liara is likely the one to do the best, but Joker will run out of meds, food on the planet may not work for everyone, if Tali is there she's almost certainly going to die. Same for Garrus. If he can eat the food then everyone else dies, etc. This part of the ending is truly what bothers me the most.
Yeah I agree, that's all I really had for the other side of the argument.

What I wish (which won't happen) to see in the ending DLC is having the Indoc theory be true, I'd pick Control, and then I'm indoctrinated but can wreak havoc on alliance forces as a reaper or be an indoctrinated Shep and have to fight former allies. I think that'd be a pretty cool twist.
 

Neb

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AFAIK only one did that. Or atleast only one did it publicly. He didnt expect results, just wanted to throw some fuel into fire. The retake movement mostly frowned this action.
Yeah, but there's still a large amount of hyperbole that's thrown around by the "retake movement".
 

J W

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I actually hope Shepard doesn't die. I like the character. He/she represents humanity and what it stands for.

I also wonder if anyone else knows where this came from?

MassEffectWiki said:
During the battle to retake Earth from the Reapers, the superweapon known as the Crucible is activated. When Commander Shepard interacts with the Catalyst, the AI that controls the Reapers, the Commander is given the option to destroy the Reapers, control the Reapers, or merge organic and synthetic life together. In all cases, the energy reaction required to achieve those options results in the complete destruction of all mass relays across the galaxy. Unlike the explosion of the Alpha Relay in Arrival, however, the destruction of the mass relays does not result in the destruction of their surrounding systems. The reason for this is not given.
I understand it could just be conjecture, but has anyone said anything officially about whether the Mass Relays blew their systems sky high? I don't remember seeing anything and the actual science seems sketchy.
 

Dan_D

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I have two more issues with the current endings.
  • If the Mass Relays don't blow up more gently than they did in the Arrival DLC for ME2, then what does that mean for the galaxy as a whole? The real question becomes, can the galaxy survive hundreds if not thousands of super nova sized explosions? My guess is, not really. You may end up with a galaxy which can't sustain carbon based life at all.
  • The idea of the Catalyst AI / Star Child thing incidates the Reapers aren't sentient at all. Everything we've seen prior to the ending of ME3 indicates they are. They must have had some humble beginning like the Geth as they are many programs creating an internal consensus like the Geth and forming a consciousness, but they shouldn't be controllable with the flip of a switch. That's also a load or horseshit.
 

mas

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Somehow you made it look like Dan_D said what I did :p

My surprise is how BioWare is acting vs. how I know they used to be. Its stupid of them to cover up so much instead of being blatantly honest.
huh how did that happen I didn't even notice, must have cut/pasted the wrong multi quote.

doesn't surprise me at all, bw has been doing this with all their games.
 
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J W

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I really think the ending of ME3 spells the ending for the series if the illusion/hallucination/indoctrination/dream stuff doesn't pan out. To me, everything's dead. Some life may still exist, sure, but some life would still have existed had the Reapers gotten their way.

Which leads to the question: Why did I bother investing all the time I did into the series? The more I think about the ending the more I feel like this guy:

http://youtu.be/b33tJx8iy0A
 

Dan_D

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I really think the ending of ME3 spells the ending for the series if the illusion/hallucination/indoctrination/dream stuff doesn't pan out. To me, everything's dead. Some life may still exist, sure, but some life would still have existed had the Reapers gotten their way.

Which leads to the question: Why did I bother investing all the time I did into the series? The more I think about the ending the more I feel like this guy:

http://youtu.be/b33tJx8iy0A
Agreed. That's how I felt about the whole thing, especially when I finished the game the first time.
 

Dan_D

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I had all 3 choices with an EMS of ~3600. Is talking about the total or effective military strength?
Right. There is EMS and TMS. The TMS doesn't matter. Playing multiplayer or using the IOS application will bring the numbers to parity, but so long as your EMS is over 4,000 or 5,000 you should be able to receive the so called "best" endings. They are all about the same so I wouldn't worry about it too much. The Citadel is destroyed, the reapers leave or are destroyed, Shepard dies, the Normandy crew get bent over without lube, and the galaxy is in ruins. At 3600 you probably did close to 100% of the game's single player content. You may have missed one or two quests and or resource items.
 

CrimsonKnight13

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Right. There is EMS and TMS. The TMS doesn't matter. Playing multiplayer or using the IOS application will bring the numbers to parity, but so long as your EMS is over 4,000 or 5,000 you should be able to receive the so called "best" endings. They are all about the same so I wouldn't worry about it too much. The Citadel is destroyed, the reapers leave or are destroyed, Shepard dies, the Normandy crew get bent over without lube, and the galaxy is in ruins. At 3600 you probably did close to 100% of the game's single player content. You may have missed one or two quests and or resource items.
I figured as much since it does seem that I missed a little from the game. I didn't get to have the Illusive Man kill himself & see the "super (fake) good" ending in London.
 

MorgothPl

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Also endings may wary depending on ME 2 choices. Haven't yet forced myself to play it again, but I read on forums, that if you didn't destroy Collector's base, you get somehow different endings then if you did blow it.
 

Dan_D

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I figured as much since it does seem that I missed a little from the game. I didn't get to have the Illusive Man kill himself & see the "super (fake) good" ending in London.
In a game as complex as any Mass Effect game is, I find it nearly impossible to go through them without forgetting one quest, one item, or screwing up the outcome of a mission slightly. Even trying to make similar choices, at times the dialog comes out somewhat different. No doubt in response to something I've done before. That's part of what I like about these games. They have rich replay value based on your choices.

Something as simple as not seeing Thane in the hospital before curing the Genophage has massive results. He won't be there to stop Kai-Leng from assasinating the Salarian Council member during Udina's coup attempt. And as a result of slightly different choices on my part, I had two very different renegade experiences in diffusing the situation with Ashley. In one I was able to get her to stand down immediately and point her gun at Udina. In the other there was back and fourth, and Udina of course had "proof" that Shepard killed the council member and not someone else. That resulted in me almost not being able to get Ashley to join the team on the Normandy. I had to actually use a paragon conversation option to get her to do it. And the dialog where she meets Shepard at the airlock was entirely different. Not just a little different as is sometimes the case, but drastically different. The relationship with Ashley was very much strained at that time. This is despite the conversation options early in the game being identical and having romanced her in ME1.

In one run through Ashley was killed. Garrus took the shot and it disturbed Liara greatly as well which isn't what I expected given that relations between the two have never been all that great in Mass Effect 1. Not because Liara does anything other than having a thing for the Commander and being an alien. The conversation with Garrus was fairly depressing. He was applogetic about having to do it, and he was the one who put her name on the memorial. Liara on the other hand talks a great deal about Ashley and how she saw her.

It was actually interesting, and she revelaed something about the assasin I hadn't caught before without going through Ashley's death. He too is a former Alliance Soldier who also held the N7 designation. She draws parallels between the assasin and Shepard. It was really quite interesting, but that particular scenario is one example of choice and consequences that exemplifies the Mass Effect series as a whole and it's characters.

Unfortunately, the ending dropped the ball on this important theme.
 

Dan_D

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Also endings may wary depending on ME 2 choices. Haven't yet forced myself to play it again, but I read on forums, that if you didn't destroy Collector's base, you get somehow different endings then if you did blow it.
Not really. The relays are still destroyed and Shepard has the same 3 shitty choices.
 

Ritorix

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If you saved the Collector base, you can get the baby human reaper brain as a war asset. That's about it.
 

Damar

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