Mass Effect 3 Discussion Thread

[Elios]

see even a "sorry we fucked up EA told us the game had to be done by X date we didnt have time so we half assed the ending" would go along way i might even think about playing ToR again

why they cant just admit they made a mistake is what really bugs me if nothing else it proves some one at EA and Bioware is still human...

 

[Dan_D]

LOL, not a chance.

The biggest thing I'm hopeful about is that BioWare takes this Extended Cut seriously. People are going to hype themselves up for it in the 3-5 months between the announcement and the release, so a few extra slides with text wont do much for the nerdrage. If this is what happens, BioWare would be better off had they just continued to subtly hint that more was to come and then surprise release something once they got it done, even if it wasn't till 2013.

They have the MP component still, so they can always keep people's interest by promoting that and by offering additional characters/weapons/maps for free.

Eh.

I think they are taking it seriously, but the problem is that there is no indication that BioWare truly understands how they went wrong, nor do they understand what needs to be done to resolve it. I'll tell you, that clarification isn't the key. And ending which isn't so bleak, full of plot holes and just generally shitty is what's needed. The entire thing with the Starchild needs to get thrown out, but I seriously doubt they'll go that far.

At best they'll be able to make it better, maybe even significantly better. But they'll never be able to make it as good as it could have been if they hadn't jumped the shark with the whole Starchild bit.

 

[LeninGHOLA]

I think they are taking it seriously, but the problem is that there is no indication that BioWare truly understands how they went wrong, nor do they understand what needs to be done to resolve it. I'll tell you, that clarification isn't the key. And ending which isn't so bleak, full of plot holes and just generally shitty is what's needed. The entire thing with the Starchild needs to get thrown out, but I seriously doubt they'll go that far.

At best they'll be able to make it better, maybe even significantly better. But they'll never be able to make it as good as it could have been if they hadn't jumped the shark with the whole Starchild bit.

I think they obviously underestimated their fans here. I honestly agree a lot with this review http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=8117

They could have done better overall, I just hope they learn from these mistakes.

 

[Dan_D]

I think they obviously underestimated their fans here. I honestly agree a lot with this review http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=8117

They could have done better overall, I just hope they learn from these mistakes.

There is nothing about that article that's not correct. Though I have to say, even as absurd as the story in Mass Effect generally is, I've always thought it was usually well presented. And when it isn't, that fact is overshadowed by genuinely good characters who carry the story despite being ridiculous. Compelling characters is genuinely what makes the series work.

But when BioWare goes with a "blow it all up in the end" type of scenario, there is really no saving it.

 

[Drown Babies]

There is nothing about that article that's not correct. Though I have to say, even as absurd as the story in Mass Effect generally is, I've always thought it was usually well presented. And when it isn't, that fact is overshadowed by genuinely good characters who carry the story despite being ridiculous. Compelling characters is genuinely what makes the series work.

But when BioWare goes with a "blow it all up in the end" type of scenario, there is really no saving it.

I can't get to that article now, but I agree that the presentation and characters are what keep the series going; that and the deep and interesting universe they've created.

But I didn't realize quite how badly the main story in ME2 went off track until I played through it again after playing ME3. I always knew that the plot of ME2 was weak, but there was at least the possibility that ME3 would show us how everything fit together, why stopping the Collectors was important. But no, ME3 just confirmed that basically nothing that happened in 2 mattered.

Sure, it's fine that we would want to stop the Collectors once we learn that they are helping the Reapers. But nothing that we learn explains why they are such a threat, or what stopping them accomplishes. They seem to have only one ship (at least we are only shown one) that the Normandy easily destroys. So that doesn't seem to be much of a threat. The only reason the Collectors have been able to continue operating seems to be that they stay under the radar and only attack human colonies that no one cares about. If the Normandy can stop them, then a real fleet should have no problem with that one ship.

And then there's the human reaper. At the end of ME2 Edi says that it's only in the early stages of development, the "larval stage". And that doesn't seem to be much of a threat, given that three foot soldiers could destroy it. What if the reaper were completed? Would it somehow be more of a threat than Sovereign, would it be completed before the rest of Reapers arrived, or does it serve some other purpose, one that we are given no hint about? ME3 doesn't seem to tell us anything, it's just being used by Cerberus as a some kind of computer. Sounds threatening doesn't it? And aren't the Reapers going to harvest humans and build a new Reaper, isn't that what they do? Maybe there's a difference between what they are doing and what the Collectors were doing, but it's never explained to us.

So yeah, the story of ME2 makes no sense to me. Can anyone explain why what we did matters in the long run? When ME2 first came out I thought that destroying the Collectors was going to be some kind of delaying tactic, or it would convince the galaxy that the Reaper threat was real, but none of that seems to be true (except for The Arrival DLC, which had nothing to do with the main story in ME2).

After going back and thinking about ME2 it should be no surprise then, that Bioware could come up with such a terrible ending. It would seem that their story telling prowess has been greatly exaggerated, and that we've all, or most of us, have been duped. So I don't have much hope for any kind of improved or new ending. Of course, somehow, none of this changes the fact that the games are really engaging and fun to play.

 

[LeninGHOLA]

The human reaper should have spoken like Jar Jar

 

[Dan_D]

Everything in Mass Effect 2 was designed around the dark energy plot. In that plot, the Human Reaper made a little more sense as I understand it. The Reaper physically looking more human doesn't, but whatever. Though in a sense you could argue that a 160m tall human Reaper destroyer would have been far more effective on the ground than the standard Reaper destroyers that are killed in ME3. It would be faster, more agile, and have greater reach.

My interpretation of the original story is here.

All that being said, what makes Mass Effect 2 great was the overall presentation and the characters. Their individual stories are what made it work. I also felt that the revalation that the Collector's were paws of the Reapers and that they were Prothean was cool. While the overarching plot doesn't really make much of a difference outside the games beginning and ending, I still thought it was servicable. The human Reaper idea makes sense to me somewhat on the whole where the dark energy plotline is concerned, but in ME2 we have no context for that and as a result we are thrown for a curve that makes no sense. In thar regard the human Reaper is simply bad story telling. For something like that to work in a story it has to have some context otherwise it looks like you are jumping the shark. As a boss fight it's mechanically too simple. Still cinematics, music, and everything before or after that I thought was very well done.

ME2 is often referred to as pointless but it introduces Cerberus as more than a simple terrorist organization. This is necessary for ME3. Shepard's hatred and betrayal of Cerberus has no context without Mass Effect 2. Going past that I think that Shepard's death and resurrection make sense to explain a necessary game mechanic which is the re-leveling your character and getting all new weapons, and explaining a revamped Normandy. I also thought that these details are important with regard to the Liara / Shepard relationship. Even if you don't romance her, it clearly shows her loyalty and feelings towards the Commander. Story wise I'd still agree that Mass Effect 2 is the weakest of the three installments if you don't count ME3's ending. That's where things just go off the rails completely. As bad as the human Reaper was, ME3's ending is far worse.

 

[Maplehamwich]

Sure, it's fine that we would want to stop the Collectors once we learn that they are helping the Reapers. But nothing that we learn explains why they are such a threat, or what stopping them accomplishes. They seem to have only one ship (at least we are only shown one) that the Normandy easily destroys. So that doesn't seem to be much of a threat. The only reason the Collectors have been able to continue operating seems to be that they stay under the radar and only attack human colonies that no one cares about. If the Normandy can stop them, then a real fleet should have no problem with that one ship.

And then there's the human reaper. At the end of ME2 Edi says that it's only in the early stages of development, the "larval stage". And that doesn't seem to be much of a threat, given that three foot soldiers could destroy it. What if the reaper were completed? Would it somehow be more of a threat than Sovereign, would it be completed before the rest of Reapers arrived, or does it serve some other purpose, one that we are given no hint about? ME3 doesn't seem to tell us anything, it's just being used by Cerberus as a some kind of computer. Sounds threatening doesn't it? And aren't the Reapers going to harvest humans and build a new Reaper, isn't that what they do? Maybe there's a difference between what they are doing and what the Collectors were doing, but it's never explained to us.

My understanding was that the collectors were beginning the construction of the human reaper. Thus the larval stage reference, as the full harvest had not yet begun. By defeating the collectors, my understanding, was that we had stopped the creation of the human reaper for the time being. The reapers were still on their way, so there was still that fight to consider, but for the time being we didn't have to worry about the already in progress human reaper.

 

[TwistedAegis]

You also stopped fairly large-scale human harvesting. Even if it went "off the rails" slightly, it would be hard to just sit there and ignore colony after colony being kidnapped wholesale.

 

[Drown Babies]

Everything in Mass Effect 2 was designed around the dark energy plot. In that plot, the Human Reaper made a little more sense as I understand it. The Reaper physically looking more human doesn't, but whatever. Though in a sense you could argue that a 160m tall human Reaper destroyer would have been far more effective on the ground than the standard Reaper destroyers that are killed in ME3. It would be faster, more agile, and have greater reach.

My interpretation of the original story is here.

All that being said, what makes Mass Effect 2 great was the overall presentation and the characters. Their individual stories are what made it work. I also felt that the revalation that the Collector's were paws of the Reapers and that they were Prothean was cool. While the overarching plot doesn't really make much of a difference outside the games beginning and ending, I still thought it was servicable. The human Reaper idea makes sense to me somewhat on the whole where the dark energy plotline is concerned, but in ME2 we have no context for that and as a result we are thrown for a curve that makes no sense. In thar regard the human Reaper is simply bad story telling. For something like that to work in a story it has to have some context otherwise it looks like you are jumping the shark. As a boss fight it's mechanically too simple. Still cinematics, music, and everything before or after that I thought was very well done.

I kind of thought that maybe the Reaper ships were some kind of shell around the the actual Reaper. I don't have anything to base that on, but it seemed reasonable at the time. Edi says that the Reapers are made in the shape of the species they come from, but the big ships all seem to look the same, so there must be some kind of universal exterior design.

And yeah, I noticed how the Dark Energy plot was brought up repeatedly as if it were going to be something important only to be dropped entirely in ME3. I don't know if Bioware could have turned that idea into a better ending, but at least it would have been directly related to the central element of the ME universe, instead of some generic plot device that's been done to death.

By itself though, I agree, I think ME2 was fine. The characters and presentation were enough to carry everything along. And the Protheans as Collectors made them an interesting enemy. There were plenty of plot holes, sloppy story telling, and questionable narrative devices, but overall it was pretty good.

 

[TwistedAegis]

I feel really dumb, because I've played through ME2 several times and have no idea what the dark energy plot is...?

 

[Drown Babies]

You also stopped fairly large-scale human harvesting. Even if it went "off the rails" slightly, it would be hard to just sit there and ignore colony after colony being kidnapped wholesale.

I agree that the Collectors were worth fighting and stopping, that they were somehow helping the Reapers seemed like reason enough. It's just that we were never really told how stopping them would really affect the greater threat from the Reapers.

To me the most obvious way to draw everything together would have been to have found the plans for the Crucible on the Collector base. Then we could point to our attack against the Collectors as a real turning point in the fight against the Reapers. Of course that would have required Bioware to plan out the story ahead of time and stick to it, instead of changing it and plopping our Deus Ex Machina literally right next door, to be found just in time.

 

[Maplehamwich]

Of course that would have required Bioware to plan out the story ahead of time and stick to it, instead of changing it and plopping our Deus Ex Machina literally right next door, to be found just in time.

It's the Wal-Mart of story telling devices!

 

[Dallows]

You also stopped fairly large-scale human harvesting. Even if it went "off the rails" slightly, it would be hard to just sit there and ignore colony after colony being kidnapped wholesale.

Same. I must've missed something.

 

[Dan_D]

Same. I must've missed something.

I feel really dumb, because I've played through ME2 several times and have no idea what the dark energy plot is...?

If you'll recall, Tali's team on the planet Haestrom (a former Quarian colony world in Geth controlled space) has a star that's aging prematurely. She theorized that dark energy interacting with the star may be responsible. There is one interesting thing to note and that is that all mass effect technology uses dark energy or interacts with it in some way to create mass effect fields. FTL, relays, even smaller devices like tooth brushes and firearms which use the technology all interact with it.

Also, Gianni Parasini mentions it if you encounter her in Mass Effect 2 on Ilium. She mentions the fact that much of the scientific community is concerned with it.

 

[Reisen]

77 pages, plenty of passion about this game. I had heard there was an ending controversy, but avoided spoilers.

Finally finished it yesterday with a strength of mid 6000's. I agree with those that loved the game, and the series, hated the end. More specifically, I can almost promise with 100% certainty that they simply ran out of time. That ending reeked of "get it done to hit the shipping date".

This is a perfect example of what happens when you abandon good game making to hit a timeline.

I wanted a LotR-style ending. That series knew how to end. Wrap up every plotline, give us a detailed look at every character, race, etc. I would have loved 20 or 30 minutes of cutscenes, dialogue choices, etc, AFTER the confrontation with the illusive man.

Why not? They gave us that kind of intro. Give me a non-violent, final, what, 3% of the game, to wrap up storylines? Why is that so hard?

 

[Dan_D]

I kind of thought that maybe the Reaper ships were some kind of shell around the the actual Reaper. I don't have anything to base that on, but it seemed reasonable at the time. Edi says that the Reapers are made in the shape of the species they come from, but the big ships all seem to look the same, so there must be some kind of universal exterior design.

Well my take on the original plot is that the Reapers were trying something new with the form of the Reaper being different. To date all other Reapers share common forms. They are either like Harbiner or Sovereign, with subtle unique variations in each, or they are destroyers like the one on Rannoch. If the Reaper was made to look like the species it came from then almost none of them would look like the one's we've seen. But I do believe that the genetic material of the species is distilled in Reaper form by making them into meat paste and infusing it with something. They preserve the DNA of the harvested species in this way. Also, do not forget that the Rachni pass genetic memory in a very literal way. The Asari actually only use genetic memory and information when they mate with another species. They do not actually take DNA from the father species.

A lot of science fiction is working with the premise of imbedded genetic memory in life. Scientists in the real world actually wonder how much of our behavior is a result of genetic memory or programming and how much of it is social behavior learned from our parents. If you take a child from the parents immediately and give them to another family, would the child take on the traits of the adopted parents, or incorporate personality traits of the biological family? We know for a fact that some behavior, such as various psychosis can be passed on from parent to child. Someone who is technically psychotic may not actually do anything violent, and in fact most psychotics don't.

This point is nailed down many times in the entirety of Mass Effect. Liara is very clear about taking the genetic memory of a species and passing it to Asari daughters. Her father makes points about this in ME2 and ME3. The plot line with Miranda and her sister further enforces this point as Oriana has a lot of personality similarities to Miranda because they are both essentially clones of each other. Despite vastly different upbrining they are very much the same.

So it seems reasonable that the Reapers preserve the material in a non-degrading Reaper shell. If genetic memory were somehow readable and accessible to them, then the knowledge and behavioral traits of that species would enhance the Reaper society as a whole. The problem is that these types of questions and all this conjecture is essentially for nothing because none of that is seen in the games. We have no concept of Reaper society or their existence.

As for the ship itself being some kind of shell, so far we've seen nothing of the kind. I've had similar thoughts, perhaps taken further. What if the human Reaper was to be a pilot of sorts in a larger Reaper? Perhaps there is a Prothean looking Reaper about that size which flies a larger Reaper like Sovereign like a fighter? An interesting thought but unnecessary from a lot of standpoints. Though it would make more sense out of the human Reaper. And keep in mind that Reaper destroyers are about 160m in length which makes them less than 10% the size of a Sovereign-Class Reaper. It's like comparing a truck driver's volume to an 18-wheeler.

And yeah, I noticed how the Dark Energy plot was brought up repeatedly as if it were going to be something important only to be dropped entirely in ME3. I don't know if Bioware could have turned that idea into a better ending, but at least it would have been directly related to the central element of the ME universe, instead of some generic plot device that's been done to death.

The original ending didn't leave any way for the series to continue. I'd bet money that EA said no to the original ending for no other reason than it limits their ability to capitalize on the franchise going forward. The ending we have now can be interpreted lots of ways and leaves BioWare with a few options for continuance. Though all of which really mean either embracing indoctrination theory or pulling the "it was all a dream card." In fact the destroy ending goes a long way toward validating the dream idea. As do all the stupid dreams in the game.

By itself though, I agree, I think ME2 was fine. The characters and presentation were enough to carry everything along. And the Protheans as Collectors made them an interesting enemy. There were plenty of plot holes, sloppy story telling, and questionable narrative devices, but overall it was pretty good.

Generally I agree. The problem is that the main plot really makes up very little of the actual game. Loyalty missions and DLC plotlines in that game are far stronger than the main story is. The main story is handled well, albeit just not handled much at all. The only exception is the human Reaper which could make sense with additional context, but this context is never provided. BioWare even really had a chance to make that whole thing make sense in Mass Effect 3, and never did bother. They should have had this context in Mass Effect 2, but didn't. And then they pissed away that chance again in ME3.

 

[Drown Babies]

Generally I agree. The problem is that the main plot really makes up very little of the actual game. Loyalty missions and DLC plotlines in that game are far stronger than the main story is. The main story is handled well, albeit just not handled much at all. The only exception is the human Reaper which could make sense with additional context, but this context is never provided. BioWare even really had a chance to make that whole thing make sense in Mass Effect 3, and never did bother. They should have had this context in Mass Effect 2, but didn't. And then they pissed away that chance again in ME3.

I like the interpretation of ME2 as a season in a TV series.

http://kotaku.com/5898519/why-mass-effect-2-was-my-favorite-mass-effect?tag=masseffect

The main plot line just takes up a few episodes, while the rest of the time is spent on character development. There are also a few side quest chains, where each mission leads to the next, that I thought were done really well. This doesn't really really address how little the main plot of ME2 relates to the overall story, but it's still an interesting take on the game.

Also, for the true Mass Effect masochist there's this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5HVvNazoSk&list=PL67454ADAC2BDA8AA&index=2&feature=plpp_video

There's a lot of nitpicking, and irritating background music, but he does make a pretty clear argument for how poorly written ME2 is.

The original ending didn't leave any way for the series to continue. I'd bet money that EA said no to the original ending for no other reason than it limits their ability to capitalize on the franchise going forward. The ending we have now can be interpreted lots of ways and leaves BioWare with a few options for continuance. Though all of which really mean either embracing indoctrination theory or pulling the "it was all a dream card." In fact the destroy ending goes a long way toward validating the dream idea. As do all the stupid dreams in the game.

I hadn't really thought of it that way, that EA would so directly change the story, but it does make sense that they would try to milk the series for all it's worth. Didn't Bioware basically admit to doing so with Dragon Age 2?

 

[Dan_D]

I like the interpretation of ME2 as a season in a TV series.

http://kotaku.com/5898519/why-mass-effect-2-was-my-favorite-mass-effect?tag=masseffect

The main plot line just takes up a few episodes, while the rest of the time is spent on character development. There are also a few side quest chains, where each mission leads to the next, that I thought were done really well. This doesn't really really address how little the main plot of ME2 relates to the overall story, but it's still an interesting take on the game.

Also, for the true Mass Effect masochist there's this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5HVvNazoSk&list=PL67454ADAC2BDA8AA&index=2&feature=plpp_video

There's a lot of nitpicking, and irritating background music, but he does make a pretty clear argument for how poorly written ME2 is.



I hadn't really thought of it that way, that EA would so directly change the story, but it does make sense that they would try to milk the series for all it's worth. Didn't Bioware basically admit to doing so with Dragon Age 2?

If there is one thing EA is good at, it's making money.

 

[J W]

I get confused when I think about the ending. I want to believe that BioWare is an honest developer, yet to make sense of the ending you almost have to assume that BioWare is lying. A 4th game which continues from where ME3 leaves off would be peachy in my book. My #1 concern, unfortunately, is that BioWare/EA will turn this thing into a MP-centric experience.

I don't mind the cheese we get in ME. It's almost charming, really. I love the space setting. Games set in space are a PITA to find nowadays.

 

[MacLeod]

I think they obviously underestimated their fans here. I honestly agree a lot with this review http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=8117

Jesus. I'm glad my life isn't so sad that I have to put that much work into finding all the faults and plot holes of 3, 40 hour long games. (aimed at the author of that blog, not Lenin).

Yeah there are plot holes and bad direction. The Star Wars movies are chocker block full of plot holes, bad dialogue and bad direction. So what? They're some of the greatest movies of all time.

Maybe I'm alone in this but I game as a form a therapy. I want my games to immerse me into them so I can forget about bills, 2 crappy jobs and so on for a few hours. Mass Effect does this in spades. I sit down and can get lost in this game. I couldn't care less if there are some plot holes and less than Oscar winning voice acting and I don't get my physics books out to make sure what theyre doing doesn't violate E=MC2. I just want cool space battles, scenery, atmosphere and story and Mass Effect delivers. Yeah Francis Ford Coppola could've written and directed a better story but I think this one is just fine. You've got cool ass giant living machines coming to destroy the galaxy and you've gotta run around and figure out how to stop them with the best cast of characters in gaming history along with first rate music and atmosphere.

I think some people need to take a breath, sit back and just enjoy the games and quit spending so much time focusing on all the negatives cause they're outweighed by the positives by 1000:1.

 

[Dan_D]

Jesus. I'm glad my life isn't so sad that I have to put that much work into finding all the faults and plot holes of 3, 40 hour long games. (aimed at the author of that blog, not Lenin).

Yeah there are plot holes and bad direction. The Star Wars movies are chocker block full of plot holes, bad dialogue and bad direction. So what? They're some of the greatest movies of all time.

Maybe I'm alone in this but I game as a form a therapy. I want my games to immerse me into them so I can forget about bills, 2 crappy jobs and so on for a few hours. Mass Effect does this in spades. I sit down and can get lost in this game. I couldn't care less if there are some plot holes and less than Oscar winning voice acting and I don't get my physics books out to make sure what theyre doing doesn't violate E=MC2. I just want cool space battles, scenery, atmosphere and story and Mass Effect delivers. Yeah Francis Ford Coppola could've written and directed a better story but I think this one is just fine. You've got cool ass giant living machines coming to destroy the galaxy and you've gotta run around and figure out how to stop them with the best cast of characters in gaming history along with first rate music and atmosphere.

I think some people need to take a breath, sit back and just enjoy the games and quit spending so much time focusing on all the negatives cause they're outweighed by the positives by 1000:1.

I agree with the author with regard to everything he said. However, I can pick anything apart and talk about how ludicrous it is. All fiction is ludicrous to some extent. At least all science fiction is. So while I agree with the author of that, it isn't the point. Mass Effect's story may be retarded to some extent, but it's better than most of the movies, TV shows and games we get these days. And getting past that the presentation of the plot is what really counts. Does it entertain you? Is it interesting? If it is then the plot did it's job. But what really sets Mass Effect apart from the rest are the characters. For the most part, all your characters are compelling to a degree.

Granted we all have our favorites and even though you may not have liked all of them up front, they have a way of growing on you as their stories progress. About the only squad member I can't stand is Jacob. He's frankly plain and boring. He only makes himself memorable by being annoying. Even James Vega is entertaining if you give him a chance. He's got some of the best on mission dialog in the game and the voice acting for him is among the best in the game. Some characters like Liara have grown and changed quite a bit, but retain their initial charms. The interactions and relationships you have with these characters make a lot of the nonsense worth while.

This is what BioWare does well. It tells character driven narratives. And while you can pick apart things like romances, etc. to a large degree, the fact remains that some concessions need to be made for technology and production time. As long as the narrative is satisfying and or entertaining, again who cares? And this is the problem with ME3. The ending of the narrative is far from entertaining or satisfying.

 

[WldWzl]

The ending of the narrative is far from entertaining or satisfying.

I couldn't agree more. I like to play Bioware RPGs because they used to make me "feel something" when I finished them. I didn't get that at the end of ME3, I just felt empty.

 

[Dan_D]

I couldn't agree more. I like to play Bioware RPGs because they used to make me "feel something" when I finished them. I didn't get that at the end of ME3, I just felt empty.

I had a lot of feelings about the ending to Mass Effect 3. Anger, rage, emptiness, betrayal, despair, just to name a few.

 

[pewter77]

I see everywhere that people want a Mass Effect 4, me? I personally hate that idea. Not because I don't like the Mass Effect Universe, but because ME3 was supposed to be the end of this trilogy and I wanted an ending that was satisfactory. I'm not even sure I care if I was to get one ending for it all if it was good, although it would be hundreds times better if it was several endings based on previous choices and not mainly dependent on your final choice.

Mass Effect was supposed to be a trilogy, everything led up to fighting the reapers and then... the terrible ending. Terrible ending doesn't mean they should make more games in this same story line. They should stop, fix the ending, and then be done with it. Then make more games in the Mass Effect universe if they want. But not, ME4 is a bad idea in this instance, especially since they advertised that it would be the end of the story line.

 

[Dallows]

I had a lot of feelings about the ending to Mass Effect 3. Anger, rage, emptiness, betrayal, despair, just to name a few.

wow

 

[Dan_D]

I see everywhere that people want a Mass Effect 4, me? I personally hate that idea. Not because I don't like the Mass Effect Universe, but because ME3 was supposed to be the end of this trilogy and I wanted an ending that was satisfactory. I'm not even sure I care if I was to get one ending for it all if it was good, although it would be hundreds times better if it was several endings based on previous choices and not mainly dependent on your final choice.

Mass Effect was supposed to be a trilogy, everything led up to fighting the reapers and then... the terrible ending. Terrible ending doesn't mean they should make more games in this same story line. They should stop, fix the ending, and then be done with it. Then make more games in the Mass Effect universe if they want. But not, ME4 is a bad idea in this instance, especially since they advertised that it would be the end of the story line.

OK, this makes little sense to me. I can understand not wanting a Mass Effect 4 that has Commander Shepard as the protagonist. I get that. As for them saying it was a trilogy, who cares? If they put out a fourth game and it's good, I won't care what they said. Also, if the ending is to be taken at face value, then the potential to develop more Mass Effect games that aren't prequels is practically non-existant. There in lies the biggest problem and it's the biggest reason why EA probably shitcanned the original ending and why BioWare is likely to pull the dream card, or add sequences to the "Extended Cut" which will radically alter our perceptions of the ending and make it not so bleak and horrible. They also need to ditch the synthesis ending as it is a huge obstacle to sequels. Prequels suck because they'd be limited in scope to the confines of existing stories set in that universe.

 

[samduhman]

I had a lot of feelings about the ending to Mass Effect 3. Anger, rage, emptiness, betrayal, despair, just to name a few.

So I came here to find out if ME3 is worth $29 (amazon download) but I'm getting the impression it's not?

 

[J W]

It's worth it, but you'll end up having to spend an extra 10 bucks for the DLC character.

 

[Godmachine]

I'm all on board for Bioware doing more ME games but not with Shepard , that horse is dead even if they actually "fix" it which they won't.

I still enjoyed my ME experience quite a bit despite it being soured because of a lackluster ending that served to please Bioware more than the audience that was being told that each player would shape the ending.

I think if you removed the ME3 ending from the census then you would have lots of happy customers but the delicate nature of balancing the fans expectations with creative freedom of the development team needs to be better respected by Bioware if they intend to do any more ME games (which lets be honest , they are going to).

 

[TwistedAegis]

So I came here to find out if ME3 is worth $29 (amazon download) but I'm getting the impression it's not?

Well worth $29, particularly if you've played the first 2.

 

[LeninGHOLA]

Jesus. I'm glad my life isn't so sad that I have to put that much work into finding all the faults and plot holes of 3, 40 hour long games. (aimed at the author of that blog, not Lenin).

Yeah there are plot holes and bad direction. The Star Wars movies are chocker block full of plot holes, bad dialogue and bad direction. So what? They're some of the greatest movies of all time.

Maybe I'm alone in this but I game as a form a therapy. I want my games to immerse me into them so I can forget about bills, 2 crappy jobs and so on for a few hours. Mass Effect does this in spades. I sit down and can get lost in this game. I couldn't care less if there are some plot holes and less than Oscar winning voice acting and I don't get my physics books out to make sure what theyre doing doesn't violate E=MC2. I just want cool space battles, scenery, atmosphere and story and Mass Effect delivers. Yeah Francis Ford Coppola could've written and directed a better story but I think this one is just fine. You've got cool ass giant living machines coming to destroy the galaxy and you've gotta run around and figure out how to stop them with the best cast of characters in gaming history along with first rate music and atmosphere.

I think some people need to take a breath, sit back and just enjoy the games and quit spending so much time focusing on all the negatives cause they're outweighed by the positives by 1000:1.

I'm sure you can come up with some rebuttals, my Highlander friend. It was a well written review, I'm not sure why you're taking it as a personal attack.

You want amusement, the author of the review wants amusement with a little bit of thought. Just different tastes. You'll have to get used to that if you want to discuss RPGs (or RPG-Lite). There are quite a few games in the genre that have very well written characters and prose. ME tends to cater to the action movie crowd, which is fine. I happen to like space opera too. Some people are just going to prefer, and maybe expect, more sophistication from the genre. There isn't anything sad about the opinion of the reviewer.

 

[LeninGHOLA]

Well worth $29, particularly if you've played the first 2.

I can say that, too. I didn't particulary think the game was great, but $30 is solid.

 

[Dan_D]

So I came here to find out if ME3 is worth $29 (amazon download) but I'm getting the impression it's not?

The first question I'm always going to ask from now on is this one:

"Have you played Mass Effect or Mass Effect 2?"

If not, then the ending to Mass Effect 3 probably won't piss you off as much. You will likely not experience the game's emotional impact, the death of characters etc. the same way those of us who have played earlier installments will. For those of us who started from the beginning and have a hundred hours or more into the games, we are far more vested in what happens to our version of Shepard and his or her crew. The ending is a slap in the face to long term fans of the series. For those of you who are coming into the series starting with ME3, I think your perception of things will be different. Many people who started in ME3 didn't care for the ending, but weren't as angry as long time fans are. Still it's a pretty good game aside from that, but there are some things you need to know.

Despite it's best efforts to change this, and be easier on new players than Mass Effect 2 was, it won't make any goddamn sense to you at first. The settings, the characters, etc. It doesn't begin in a way that really allows you to jump right in. Yet it forces you to do so anyway. The game has a lot of faults and a lot of strengths but cohesive narrative isn't one of them. Now if you are coming into ME3 from ME2 and it's Arrival DLC, then it makes a ton of sense and you more or less pick up where you left off. Many people thought ME2 wasn't very good for new players to jump into, and despite BioWare talking about addressing that problem, Mass Effect 3 is far worse in this regard than ME2 was. I actually started with ME2, then went back to ME1, then replayed ME2, and then moved into ME3. So I know how ME2 was for a new player who new next to nothing about the universe.

As for the game itself:

It is by far the most linear Mass Effect game. This has the benefit of improving pacing and allowing for some story elements to be expanded due to not having to account for things you may not have done yet, or accounting for things you've already had to do. Exploration from Mass Effect 1 or what you'd expect in a traditional RPG is non-existant. You can explore mission areas, and I'd encourage you to do so in order to get all the weapons and item pickups. But the missions are largely linear. They were linear in Mass Effect 1 and 2 as well, but you had some vehicle exploration (more so in ME1 and only in DLC for ME2) that allowed you to look around and discover things. Again this is not without it's advantages as it allows for richer, albeit less varied story telling and scripting. It's not as on rails as Call of Duty is, but it's far from open world. Missions are given to you in blocks. Essentially you'll do one series of missions, then go to a planet where there is another series, so on and so fourth. Granted, this is largely how you ended up playing ME1 and ME2, but ME3 forces you to do planets in a certain order. ME1 and ME2 allowed you to do a significant portion of the game in any order. In ME2, there were consequences for making bad judgements with regard to putting some things off. ME3 does the same thing in that regard, but you are still forced to complete one group of missions before advancing.

Shepard is a delivery man/woman. There are many fetch quests. These are largely filler but frankly I don't rage about them as much as others do. They get old, but you can do these in any order you wish for the most part. Some can only be done as you advance in the game. Others don't. You have to be careful as some of these can get locked out if you advance too far in the story as those NPCs may be killed or simply disappear from the game. Also, you need to know that you do need to play some multiplayer or get the iPhone application in order to get your EMS high enough for the best endings. BioWare denies this but that's bullshit. You can't achieve an EMS of 5,000 or whatever without doing some multiplayer. Again you can use the iOS application in place of that if you like.

Your choices don't matter in the end but can impact the story experience to a large degree. Which leads into the next problem. The game begins with certain choices from ME1 and ME2 made for you. The game has to default to something and thus options are already selected. The problem is that these are almost always the worst choices that the game defaults to. This makes certain aspects of the game more linear as you may be locked out of choices, or it will shape part of the story in a way you didn't want it to be shaped. It also severely limits replay value due to the fact that not having an ME1 > ME2 save again locks you into specific variables with specific characters. (Overall in the end I suppose this doesn't matter given how the endings work.)

Character interactions are a particular strong suit of these games. And Mass Effect 3 delivers here. ME1 and ME2 can't touch it for the most part. Though you had a lot more characters in ME2 to interact with. Their loyalty missions were also special as they allowed you to really get to know them and what makes them tick. With ME3 loyalty missions are basically gone but you do have to help people out with specific things from time to time. But many of the characters are just thrown at you with a history dating back to ME1 that you as a player will be unaware of. So much of the dialog just won't make sense. The romance subplots are something that many of the series' fans have really come to enjoy. While everyone has their favorites and hates some choices, these add a particular personal touch to your character and their relationship to that person. It also to a lesser extent alters the dynamic of their relationship to other characters with regard to how they respond to your Shepard. Not importing an ME1 or ME2 save means that you will be unable to romance certain characters as they are locked out in ME3.

Also, romances carried over from previous games have slightly different dialog than they do if you go into ME3 and romance them in that game alone. A player which carried a faithful relationship from ME1 to ME3 is rewarded with more personal dialog than they'd otherwise get. There are a few specific scenes which take a very different tone if you carried a romance from a previous game. You also missed the opportunity to know these characters better. You won't understand why Ashley is so distrustful of Shepard, or why Kaiden feels so bad about something he did before. You won't know why Garrus is your best friend nor why Liara doesn't care about your privacy or why she cares so much for Shepard. And despite her feelings, her level of trust is vastly different if Shepard didn't complete LOtSB for ME2. You will also be unaware of all that she did in the past for him or her.

Without an imported save, you will have fewer reputation points available to you. This again locks you into certain choices which are a big deal. Some choices and therefore their outcomes are flat out unavailable to you without this import. You will also most likely be able to score far fewer EMS points than if you imported a save. This may cause you to have to relay more on multiplayer in order to bring it up.

Mass Effect 3 from the perspectice of being a shooter, is a pretty good game. The weapons are fun, the graphics are decent, but not spectacular, and the level design / locations are pretty solid. They are not as varied as ME2's are but there are fewer locations and much of the galaxy is a waste land. Combat flows well and is entertaining. This is another area where ME3 far surpasses it's predecessors. Though largely similar to ME2, Shepard is far more agile and cover works better than it did in ME2. You have a vast array of weapons to choose from and the classes all play a lot differently. And as a shooter it's long for that type of game. With the game set to auto dialog everything and basically transition to missions and action scenes, it's far shorter but still about 20 hours ro so. While it's a good shooter, it isn't as good as a lot of pure shooters are. So take that for what it's worth. Though there aren't a lot of pure science fiction shooters so that's another point in ME3's favor.

All in all I'd say the game is always worth $30 but be prepared as the ending does indeed suck. (And there is a chance BioWare will improve this dramatically with DLC.) But if you are new to the franchise, it probably won't bother you as much. You most likely will not understand the rage and feelings of betrayal that many of us are experiencing. Even as a veteran of the series, the ending doesn't sour the entire experience once you get over that initial hatred of the ending. Then there is also the chance you may genuinely like it. If you like artsy beers that taste like ass or artsy films which seem to be mostly about gay cowboys eating pudding, then yeah, you will probably like the ending and shouldn't worry. Oh, wannabe intellectuals that like so called "high science fiction" seem to like the ending as well. Though despite their claims to the contrary, I doubt they fully understand it's implications.

 

[J W]

I loled at the gay cowboy bit.

Anyway, I'd say the MP is worth 30 bucks. If it were me, I'd snag it at that price and only play MP until the EC came out. Maybe you could even get the DLC between now and then at a reduced price.

 

[mas]

Jesus. I'm glad my life isn't so sad that I have to put that much work into finding all the faults and plot holes of 3, 40 hour long games. (aimed at the author of that blog, not Lenin).

Yeah there are plot holes and bad direction. The Star Wars movies are chocker block full of plot holes, bad dialogue and bad direction. So what? They're some of the greatest movies of all time.

you would say the same thing if the subject was some other type of film/media/art? star wars isn't pants on head retarded like the storyline we're talking about here, "plot holes" is just a civil way to put it. some 2 hour passive entertainment is not the same as spending $60 to insult your intelligence, a coherent plot is not too much to ask for at all.

entertainment is worthless without criticism. this is the whole point of seeking stimulation, otherwise you're just killing time. which is more sad and a bigger waste?

 

[Dan_D]

you would say the same thing if the subject was some other type of film/media/art? star wars isn't pants on head retarded like the storyline we're talking about here, "plot holes" is just a civil way to put it. some 2 hour passive entertainment is not the same as spending $60 to insult your intelligence, a coherent plot is not too much to ask for at all.

entertainment is worthless without criticism. this is the whole point of seeking stimulation, otherwise you're just killing time. which is more sad and a bigger waste?

The retarded deus ex machina that we are hit with at the end is pretty bad. People just don't understand how bad it is unless they've seen it. Many people who played it and disliked it may not feel the outrage that long time fans of the series do, but I think there are more people that hate it than not.

I won't spoil it here, read my posts in the ME3 spoiler thread if you want to know just what level of retardation we are dealing with. But the facts are thus: It introduces a new character in the last 10 minutes of the game, you can't question him, your presented with three nonsense choices, and yeah, it's all deus ex machina pulled out of the writers ass at the last moment. Oh and I forgot. If you aren't a fan of circular logic, you'll want to slam your head into the desk a few times after hearing it. You may even want to pay a friend to slam the refrigerator door on your head a few times in the hope that you might forget all about it sooner rather than later.

One more thought then I'll shut up for a bit. The ending is so pretentious, so badly written in it's attempt to be transcendent from a game to "art" and it tries to be so artsy that I expected to see this after the credits rolled:

FIN.

It's so bad I don't think first week film students can appreciate it. The writing for Mass Effect is generally a 7 or 8 out of 10 while most games hover at about a 3. At the end it's total amateur hour by the writing staff leaving the ending at a solid 2/10. I can cite a few worse examples of writing. Highlander II: The Quickening, Robot Jox, and a film called Millenium. So there is worse, but not much.

 

[TwistedAegis]

You may even want to pay a friend to slam the refrigerator door on your head a few times in the hope that you might forget all about it sooner rather than later.

Are you asking? Because my prices are very reasonable.

 

[Dan_D]

Are you asking? Because my prices are very reasonable.

Sadly I'll never forget the ending to Mass Effect 3. I've never hated an ending so much in my life. I actually cared about how the game's story played out and BioWare let me down big time. I've also watched the ending many, many times on Youtube, recorded the crap with FRAPS after my second playthrough in order to analyze it in the hope I could make some sense out of it. So far I've been unable to do so. In fact I usually find some new reason to be pissed off about it each time I see it.

 

[MacLeod]

you would say the same thing if the subject was some other type of film/media/art? star wars isn't pants on head retarded like the storyline we're talking about here, "plot holes" is just a civil way to put it. some 2 hour passive entertainment is not the same as spending $60 to insult your intelligence, a coherent plot is not too much to ask for at all.

entertainment is worthless without criticism. this is the whole point of seeking stimulation, otherwise you're just killing time. which is more sad and a bigger waste?

I wouldn't say the same thing if we were talking about a game that sucked. We're talking about a game that many regarded as an all-time great. Then ME3 came out and the ending sucked and all hell breaks loose and we get stories like above calling the whole series shit.

If you didn't like Mass Effect games that's one thing. Not everybody likes the same things but now all of a sudden I'm reading things trashing the whole series because the ending of the 3rd game sucked and BioWare sucks and EA is the devil (well I agree with that one) and they're never buying anything from BioWare again. It is overreacting to the extreme.

I can't recall reading about "plot holes" before ME3. I'm sure they're out there but not all over the place like they are now. The ending sucked. The games were terrific. I just don't get all the rage and overreaction.

I hated the ending too. I desperately want BioWare to fix it. But I'm not ready to throw the whole series down the crapper or demand BioWare employees heads on pikes. I still love the games. I'm on my 3rd playthru of 3 and started an umpteenth playthru of 1 with a fem-Shep and am having a ball. Am I really the only one that thinks this way?