Mass Effect 3 Discussion Thread

[Dan_D]

I wouldn't say the same thing if we were talking about a game that sucked. We're talking about a game that many regarded as an all-time great. Then ME3 came out and the ending sucked and all hell breaks loose and we get stories like above calling the whole series shit.

If you didn't like Mass Effect games that's one thing. Not everybody likes the same things but now all of a sudden I'm reading things trashing the whole series because the ending of the 3rd game sucked and BioWare sucks and EA is the devil (well I agree with that one) and they're never buying anything from BioWare again. It is overreacting to the extreme.

I can't recall reading about "plot holes" before ME3. I'm sure they're out there but not all over the place like they are now. The ending sucked. The games were terrific. I just don't get all the rage and overreaction.

I hated the ending too. I desperately want BioWare to fix it. But I'm not ready to throw the whole series down the crapper or demand BioWare employees heads on pikes. I still love the games. I'm on my 3rd playthru of 3 and started an umpteenth playthru of 1 with a fem-Shep and am having a ball. Am I really the only one that thinks this way?

I've replayed ME3 multiple times up to the Priority Earth mission. I can't usually bring myself to do that one very often because that abortion of an ending is just around the corner. It does cast a shadow over the whole series because it invalidates all your choices and makes the journey feel nearly pointless as you leave the galaxy in a state in which you have to question whether or not it was ever worth saving. I'd go far as to say that it looms over the entire series as you play through it. In the end our choices, the lives saved, and the ones sacrificed don't matter. Even if we had more or less the same ending as we did in ME1, at least you'd have a sense of accomplishment to go along with it. Your journey would be topped with a cherry, not a turd. You would at least feel that the emotional rollercoaster that is the third game was worth it in the end. Instead your ride basically drops buckets of peanut infested shit on you as you exit. Every time I finish the game I feel beat down. This is why I've only managed to sit through the ending twice.

Prior to the ending I'd have given the game a 10/10. After reflecting on it more, even despite the ending I'd drop it down to a solid 9 as BioWare did take a few steps forward, and took some back with the game's overall design. Fetch quests, linearity, etc. Character interactions and story were generally improved. Combat, the mod system etc. were also improved. Taking the series as a whole, I've got to say that in many ways ME3 is the worst in the series. While I find the actual game to be more fun than Mass Effect 1, I think that the terrible ending drags it down. ME1 was the best for story, ME2 had the best overall characters, and ME3 has the best gameplay, and character interactions. ME3 also had the best voice acting in the series. Everyone did a bang up job. I have few complaints. Mark Meer finally nails it where as he was just passable before. Jennifer Hale I always thought overacted as FemShep, but she seems to have found a good balance in this one. Ali Hillis has a pleasant voice but a lot of times it sounds like she's reading from a script in the earlier games. She still does from time to time, but for the most part she does very well. I thought she did a great job getting the emotional inflections right even if the cadence was off. I've always thought that about her voice acting, but it was definitely better here. Of course Freddie Prinze Jr. Keith David, Carrie Ann Moss and Armin Shimmerman all did an awesome job. Of course all the other squad mate voice actors like the guy who does Garrus and Tali's voices are as awesome as ever.

For whatever reason Ashley sounds like she's on the verge of crying all the time. Hers is probably the performance I understand the least. She does really good at times, but she really does sound like she's going to storm off, cry in her pillow and then write in her diary some nearly every time she's spoken to. Kaiden's voice is naturally well done. Though I always hear Carth Onasi when he speaks.

 

[Drown Babies]

You may even want to pay a friend to slam the refrigerator door on your head a few times in the hope that you might forget all about it sooner rather than later.

Now this is where I have to disagree with you. A refrigerator door is far too gentle. It has that soft rubber seal to lessen the impact of the blow, making a concussion far too unlikely. The cool air pouring out might also be too comforting for the desired effect to take place. Now, you may think that a car door would be more suited to the task, but those have more sharp and awkward edges that would result in a little too much hemorrhaging and what not. The best option is probably your standard bedroom/bathroom type of wooden door. Enough to cause the kind of minor amnesia that you're looking for, without resulting in any major long term damage. And really, nothing encourages memory loss like waking up concussed on the bathroom floor. A few blows should do the trick, and with a little effort you could probably manage this on your own.

The retarded deus ex machina that we are hit with at the end is pretty bad. People just don't understand how bad it is unless they've seen it.

And this... it's like they looked up deus ex machina and thought it was some kind of amazing literary device that would really impress everyone.

 

[J W]

I think Mass Effect may have the most committed fans of any video game I've seen. Shit, I've never personally spent so much time reading about a video game before this. I wish I could make my mind up as regards BioWare's intentions: was this all planned or not? I just cant imagine that the people at BioWare looked at the finished product and said to themselves, "we're really proud of this, and we think our fans will love it."

BioWare employs a bunch of fuckups in its twitterer and PR deparatment, but they've at least always been pretty consistent as far as being secretive goes.

 

[Dan_D]

I think Mass Effect may have the most committed fans of any video game I've seen. Shit, I've never personally spent so much time reading about a video game before this. I wish I could make my mind up as regards BioWare's intentions: was this all planned or not? I just cant imagine that the people at BioWare looked at the finished product and said to themselves, "we're really proud of this, and we think our fans will love it."

BioWare employs a bunch of fuckups in its twitterer and PR deparatment, but they've at least always been pretty consistent as far as being secretive goes.

As I've stated many times, we may never know their true intentions. But I'd wager that EA got wind of the original ending and wanted it changed to allow for sequels. Personally I think this game was supposed to end quietly and we wouldn't have heard a damned thing until ME4 came out and they pulled the "it was all a dream card." That would be how they bridged ME3 to ME4. Alternatively, they might have made a DLC bridge like the Arrival from ME2 to ME3. But it's hard to say.

It seems to me that they figured they'd do something like this and so they emulated certain franchises films, and games like Deus Ex, Star Trek the Motion Picture and Battlestar Galactica as source material for this open ended mess of nonsense. They hoped people would see it as deep, intellectual and profound. There are a couple problems with this. Dark doesn't equal profound. Intellectual endings aren't satisfying endings. It's like art films and artsy beer. It takes a certain type to appreciate them. That's fine for a Phillip K. Dick novel but not something which is essentially a space opera not totally unlike Star Wars. So it's incongruent and unexpected. It's so awkward and out of place for the series that you are left with a "what the hell just happened feeling?" when the credits roll.

I think the fan reaction really shocked them. A lot of people are screaming for closure and clarity, but the fact is, the ending gives us plenty of closure and it's clear enough. It ties up most everything. Not in a satisfying way of course. And what's introduced at the end was supposed to be the basis for "lots of speculation for everyone." I think they were going for that in order to keep interest in the series high, but underestimated the fan's visceral reaction to seeing their favorite characters screwed over. Also the nonsensical way everything is presented shows poor editing, rushed work and bad writing. It also indicates that BioWare has lost touch with their fan base. They try to pass this crap off as art. It simply stinks of vanity and egotism on their part. The real implications of the endings seem clear, even though BioWare is back tracking on them now via Twitter. Now all the plot holes that popped up are what indicate the fact that it was seriously rushed out the door. There is also a rumor that there was no real peer review and Mac Walters and Casey Hudson are responsible for this alone.

It's either that or Casey Hudson really did jump the shark and try to make Mass Effect transcend from being just a game to "art" and figured this garbage was the way to do that.

 

[J W]

^I think you're right that someone influenced the ending in a direction that wasn't originally planned, and this probably happened late in the development. At this point that contention makes more sense than anything.

After playing, replaying, watching, and rewatching the ending, I have a hard time with the rushed argument, at least to a degree. A more natural ending -- where the credits should roll -- is right after the deed's done in the control room (trying to limit spoilers). They just needed to add a few epilogue slides and they'd have been done. That's far easier and less time consuming than what we actually got.

So it's interesting this way, I guess.

 

[Dan_D]

^I think you're right that someone influenced the ending in a direction that wasn't originally planned, and this probably happened late in the development. At this point that contention makes more sense than anything.

After playing, replaying, watching, and rewatching the ending, I have a hard time with the rushed argument, at least to a degree. A more natural ending -- where the credits should roll -- is right after the deed's done in the control room (trying to limit spoilers). They just needed to add a few epilogue slides and they'd have been done. That's far easier and less time consuming than what we actually got.

So it's interesting this way, I guess.

You wouldn't know it looking at the cinematics alone, but by their own admission the ending wasn't decided until the later stages of development. They actually wrote it just a few weeks ahead of the deadline. Cinematics don't necessarily take too long to create if they use existing models and many of these do. Reapers, the Citadel, soldiers, mass relays etc. are already available from earlier cinematic sequences. Yeah some of it had to be new, but again I've seen these things done in a short period of time regardless. Scene rendering is largely a matter of having the resources to do it in a timely fashion. I'd bet that EA/BioWare can do these things fairly quickly when they need to.

It is also entirely possible that some of the ending footage was pulled from the original dark energy plot line. Repurposing some of this footage could be partly responsible for it making very little sense. When you use existing footage to save time and money, sometimes concessions have to be made to make it work. See season 4 of Airwolf if you want to know more about what I'm talking about.

The interesting part is there is some deleted footage and unusued audio / dialog out there indicating that some aspects of the end were longer and more concise and then cut to make them more ambiguous. I'm not certain this is the case with the cinematic sequences, but I'm positive this was done for the rest of the game's ending mission, or rather the latest parts of it.

 

[TheReproducer]

I'm replaying the first two games as I wanted to change some carry over parameters (I know, I can just grab someone's save game) and I have to say, the first game's inventory is a complete mess. All those guns which don't really vary much between models. It was just quantity over quality... but then the second game removed all that choice. Ah, can't there be a happy medium?

 

[Dan_D]

I'm replaying the first two games as I wanted to change some carry over parameters (I know, I can just grab someone's save game) and I have to say, the first game's inventory is a complete mess. All those guns which don't really vary much between models. It was just quantity over quality... but then the second game removed all that choice. Ah, can't there be a happy medium?

Yeah it's called Mass Effect 3. Mass Effect 3 keeps the same weapons from ME2 and adds a few more and implements a weapon modification system similar to what ME1 used in concept, but it's far cleaner with a vastly improved interface and the mods can really change how the weapons behave. Modifications even alter their appearance as well. But you are correct in that Mass Effect's inventory system was terrible in just about every way possible. ME2's solution was to ditch it entirely and while I did like it more than ME1 in that regard, I think ME3 struck the right balance.

 

[MacLeod]

The only thing I liked about ME1's inventory was that I could collect a billion tbings and then sell them at any store. That made it a lot easier to get those big dawg guns and armor when they became available.

I think ME3's is the best. The only mods I really needed to change on the fly was the type of ammunition I was using and you can do that in 2 and 3 so its the best and cleanest setup.

 

[Dan_D]

The only thing I liked about ME1's inventory was that I could collect a billion tbings and then sell them at any store. That made it a lot easier to get those big dawg guns and armor when they became available.

I think ME3's is the best. The only mods I really needed to change on the fly was the type of ammunition I was using and you can do that in 2 and 3 so its the best and cleanest setup.

And occasionally you find work benches in the field and can modify your weapons on the go. But I typically take care of that before missions. And you've got hot keys for ammunition powers so that's a nice setup compared to ME1.

 

[MacLeod]

LOL. I never hit them right though. I'll flip on the cryo ammo instead of armor piercing and it'll take me a while to figure out why this Atlas wont go down.

None of my extra G700 buttons register in ME3 so I guess I need to bind them to keys so I can use them instead.

 

[Dan_D]

LOL. I never hit them right though. I'll flip on the cryo ammo instead of armor piercing and it'll take me a while to figure out why this Atlas wont go down.

None of my extra G700 buttons register in ME3 so I guess I need to bind them to keys so I can use them instead.

That's why I carry the Black Widow. I can punch through that stupid Atlas regardless of what ammunition power I'm using.

 

[MacLeod]

I actually started carrying the Black Widow but never thought of using it on an Atlas. I use the concentration mod and I love killing bad guys in one shot.....too bad you don't get to see them cause he recoil of that sucker is enormous!

 

[Dan_D]

I actually started carrying the Black Widow but never thought of using it on an Atlas. I use the concentration mod and I love killing bad guys in one shot.....too bad you don't get to see them cause he recoil of that sucker is enormous!

The Black Widow is one of three weapons in the game that penetrate armor or cover without an armor penetration mod or armor piercing ammunition. The M-98 Widow and the Javelin are the other two. Aim for the cockpit and you can punch through the glass and take out the driver. Though usually the Atlas doesn't survive this, but sometimes it does which allows you to jack the Atlas and turn it against Cerberus. The Black Widow I found is best with the sniper rifle extended barrel and the concentration mod. Though the concentration mod stacks with an infiltrators normal time dialation ability, it isn't really all that necessary. So this leaves you to free up that mod slot for something else like the enhanced scopes which allow you to see enemies through smoke. Personally I find the concentration mod is best for all other classes besides infiltrators. It stacks nicely with a soldiers adrenaline rush, but it also means you won't have to use it as often.

The Black Widow may recoil considerably, but if you time your shots it's quite effective. With the sniper rifle extended barrel and cryo ammunition fully evolved, you can explode most enemies with a single shot to the chest.

 

[MacLeod]

The Black Widow is one of three weapons in the game that penetrate armor or cover without an armor penetration mod or armor piercing ammunition. The M-98 Widow and the Javelin are the other two. Aim for the cockpit and you can punch through the glass and take out the driver. Though usually the Atlas doesn't survive this, but sometimes it does which allows you to jack the Atlas and turn it against Cerberus.

No shit? I never even thought about trying that. I usually just flip on ammo piercing, adrenaline rush, break out my Predator pistol them just unload. That usually does the trick. Definitely will have to try taking out the driver though.

 

[Dan_D]

No shit? I never even thought about trying that. I usually just flip on ammo piercing, adrenaline rush, break out my Predator pistol them just unload. That usually does the trick. Definitely will have to try taking out the driver though.

There is actually an achievement for jacking the Atlas. You can't do this in multiplayer but you can definitely do it in the single player game. Also, why the M-3 Predator? That's a weaksauce and nearly useless gun.

 

[MacLeod]

There is actually an achievement for jacking the Atlas. You can't do this in multiplayer but you can definitely do it in the single player game. Also, why the M-3 Predator? That's a weaksauce and nearly useless gun.

Its more "fun" to use IMO. I like going all Lethal Weapon and firing the pistol fast. Don't know why but I've always preferred semi-auto fire modes on all my guns and a high fire rate as opposed to a slow firing, more powerful or full auto. Guess I feel more "involved" by firing each round independently or something. That goes all the way back to Max Payne. I used a single Beretta most of the time for its high fire rate.

I really like the Carnifax but its way too slow. There's another one that I can't remember the name of but its very fast but the recoil is horrible and its hard to rapid fire accurately. The Predator is deadly accurate and it'll fire as fast as you can click. So while its not as powerful as the Carnifax, I can fire off 15 rounds to the Carnifax's 1 so damage wise, the Predator is pretty good especially with the barrel extension. Now that I'm up to a "X" model, I can take out Brutes, Atlas and just about anything with it on Hardcore difficulty.

 

[Dan_D]

Its more "fun" to use IMO. I like going all Lethal Weapon and firing the pistol fast. Don't know why but I've always preferred semi-auto fire modes on all my guns and a high fire rate as opposed to a slow firing, more powerful or full auto. Guess I feel more "involved" by firing each round independently or something. That goes all the way back to Max Payne. I used a single Beretta most of the time for its high fire rate.

I really like the Carnifax but its way too slow. There's another one that I can't remember the name of but its very fast but the recoil is horrible and its hard to rapid fire accurately. The Predator is deadly accurate and it'll fire as fast as you can click. So while its not as powerful as the Carnifax, I can fire off 15 rounds to the Carnifax's 1 so damage wise, the Predator is pretty good especially with the barrel extension. Now that I'm up to a "X" model, I can take out Brutes, Atlas and just about anything with it on Hardcore difficulty.

I'm not taling about semi-automatic vs. fully automatic. I guess being a gun guy, I prefer hard hitting weapons which I have to fire less to accomplish the same task. Shooting 15 times when 1 or 2 shots will do seems silly.

My Shepard's Loadout:

• M-96 Mattock
• Black Widow
• M-11 Wraith
• M-77 Paladin

Sometimes I carry an N7 Hurricane when the mission may cause me to go too long without ammunition for my M-96 Mattock. But this is rare. (I've really only done this with the last mission in the game and that's it.) If I was going to do all CQB type stuff, and a shotgun was insufficient due to the number of enemies I had to face, I'd be all over the M-76 Revenant. It's one of my favorites from Mass Effect 2. Too bad they killed it's accuracy to the point of almost making it unusable for anything but short range in ME3. Equipping the Marksman power does negate this problem which is why Ashley always carries an M-76 Revenant in my games. Anyway, I guess I understand carrying the weaker and lighter weapons for some classes which are dependent on the use of powers to deal damage and fight. The soldier and to a lesser extent the infiltrator don't really need to worry that much about it. With the solider I almost never use powers.

And weaker weapons force you to be out of cover longer to deal damage to enemies, and I speak from personal experience in these games when I tell you the M3 Predator blows goats on the hardcore difficulty setting. The Freedom's Progress mission is much harder than it needed to be thanks to the starting guns sucking so bad. Damages are reduced as the difficulty increases. Not being able to deal damage as effectively also screws you over and allows some types of enemies to overrun your position. Granted Cerberus forces don't do that very much, nor do the Geth. But Reaper forces definitely will swarm you and overrun your area. Your ability to do damage quickly and easily is essential to survival on the higher difficulty settings.

 

[TwistedAegis]

I guess I'm weird; even as a soldier I carried only one gun, the M-99. I liked being able to spam Incinerate (my optional ability I took). With the spare ammo clip and going for headshots, I don't really worry about ammo and it rips through nearly everything. Even Banshees don't last too long; I can chain time dilation so it's up nearly 100% of the time and just rip their heads apart.

 

[TheReproducer]

Yeah it's called Mass Effect 3. Mass Effect 3 keeps the same weapons from ME2 and adds a few more and implements a weapon modification system similar to what ME1 used in concept, but it's far cleaner with a vastly improved interface and the mods can really change how the weapons behave. Modifications even alter their appearance as well. But you are correct in that Mass Effect's inventory system was terrible in just about every way possible. ME2's solution was to ditch it entirely and while I did like it more than ME1 in that regard, I think ME3 struck the right balance.

Good to know, I haven't got ME3 yet (budget gamer so waiting for the price to drop). I'm glad that they took the sensible middle road for the final chapter. Did everyone play Arrival? I've only recently gone on a bioware points spending spree, got it installed but haven't played it yet. I've been told that it explains a lot of things for ME3.

 

[TwistedAegis]

Good to know, I haven't got ME3 yet (budget gamer so waiting for the price to drop). I'm glad that they took the sensible middle road for the final chapter. Did everyone play Arrival? I've only recently gone on a bioware points spending spree, got it installed but haven't played it yet. I've been told that it explains a lot of things for ME3.

Arrival is good. Not too long, but I found it very interesting and I liked the decisions you had to make.

 

[Dan_D]

I guess I'm weird; even as a soldier I carried only one gun, the M-99. I liked being able to spam Incinerate (my optional ability I took). With the spare ammo clip and going for headshots, I don't really worry about ammo and it rips through nearly everything. Even Banshees don't last too long; I can chain time dilation so it's up nearly 100% of the time and just rip their heads apart.

The M-99 Saber is the most powerful assault rifle in the game bar the M-37 Falcon. However it's heavy as hell. The M-37 Falcon is also considerably less efficient ammunition wise. By itself The M-99 Saber is a decent choice for a soldier as it allows almost constant adrenaline rush. Again it's heavy, but when it's your only weapon that makes no difference. Under adrenaline rush damage is significantly increased and the time dialation effect allows for easy headshots.

I am well aware of how that works, I just don't do it because I don't want to play all the combat under adrenaline rush. Outside of adrenaline rush the slow rate of fire is maddening to me. For me the M-96 Mattock is the most balanced rifle for my play style and the additional weapons are a lot of fun for me. It allows me to tactically approach a situation with more options. Shotgun for dealing high amounts of damage to one or two targets, the M-77 Paladin with a scope allows me to make quick headshots at medium range and conserve on ammunition for my other weapons. I also use this for all utility work like blowing open locks and things like that rather than using my other guns. The Black Widow is for bosses, Atlas's and other heavily armored targets or even standard enemies at long range. With the concentration mod it's great even for fast movers like the Nemesis and Phantom, provided they are at long range. The M-96 Mattock under adrenaline rush makes short work of Brute's, Banshee's and even Harvesters. It also allows pin point accuracy at medium and long range. I can make headshots with iron sights on it all day.

 

[TwistedAegis]

I loved the Mattock in ME2, it was my go-to rifle. I actually use adrenalin rush very rarely, only under multiple banshee/brute attack. I prefer to use offensive/damage biotics instead - have Liara pick them all up then drop my Incinerate or Garrus' Overload. I don't mind the slow rate of fire at all actually, it forces me to pick my shots a bit more.

 

[Dan_D]

I loved the Mattock in ME2, it was my go-to rifle. I actually use adrenalin rush very rarely, only under multiple banshee/brute attack. I prefer to use offensive/damage biotics instead - have Liara pick them all up then drop my Incinerate or Garrus' Overload. I don't mind the slow rate of fire at all actually, it forces me to pick my shots a bit more.

The M-96 Mattock is unchanged in ME3. The only difference is that they've fixed the AI issues with squad mates using it in ME3. They never bothered to do so in ME2. I use Liara a lot for her biotics as well due to the fact that a soldier class Shepard has none. She's useful for pretty much any type of enemy. Javik fills a similar role as well if you want to change things up. I've never used Kaiden in ME3 as that pole smoker died on Virmire in all my playthroughs. So I can't comment on him.

 

[MacLeod]

I'm not taling about semi-automatic vs. fully automatic. I guess being a gun guy, I prefer hard hitting weapons which I have to fire less to accomplish the same task. Shooting 15 times when 1 or 2 shots will do seems silly.

My Shepard's Loadout:

• M-96 Mattock
• Black Widow
• M-11 Wraith
• M-77 Paladin

Sometimes I carry an N7 Hurricane when the mission may cause me to go too long without ammunition for my M-96 Mattock. But this is rare. (I've really only done this with the last mission in the game and that's it.) If I was going to do all CQB type stuff, and a shotgun was insufficient due to the number of enemies I had to face, I'd be all over the M-76 Revenant. It's one of my favorites from Mass Effect 2. Too bad they killed it's accuracy to the point of almost making it unusable for anything but short range in ME3. Equipping the Marksman power does negate this problem which is why Ashley always carries an M-76 Revenant in my games. Anyway, I guess I understand carrying the weaker and lighter weapons for some classes which are dependent on the use of powers to deal damage and fight. The soldier and to a lesser extent the infiltrator don't really need to worry that much about it. With the solider I almost never use powers.

And weaker weapons force you to be out of cover longer to deal damage to enemies, and I speak from personal experience in these games when I tell you the M3 Predator blows goats on the hardcore difficulty setting. The Freedom's Progress mission is much harder than it needed to be thanks to the starting guns sucking so bad. Damages are reduced as the difficulty increases. Not being able to deal damage as effectively also screws you over and allows some types of enemies to overrun your position. Granted Cerberus forces don't do that very much, nor do the Geth. But Reaper forces definitely will swarm you and overrun your area. Your ability to do damage quickly and easily is essential to survival on the higher difficulty settings.

I hear ya. Ive got a buddy that prefers that as well. One shot, one kill. I just have always thought it was more fun to use a gun that you could fire rapidly in semi auto mode. All the guns in Crysis and Crysis 2 I keep on semi-auto as well for that reason. Its not a "gun thing" at all. Its simply a "this is more fun" thing to me.

As for cover, I dont find it a whole big problem. Im fast enough I can pop up out of cover, unload on a brutha as he's running or whatever and have him killed pretty quick so I can duck back into cover. You put a barrel extension on a level 10 Predator and its a pretty potent gun especially when its surgically accurate and you can unload a clip in a dude in a second or two. That one pistol I cant think of the name is a little faster than the Predator but with its recoil, its impossible to do stuff like that. So for my way to work its gotta have no recoil and be very accurate.

 

[Dan_D]

I hear ya. Ive got a buddy that prefers that as well. One shot, one kill. I just have always thought it was more fun to use a gun that you could fire rapidly in semi auto mode. All the guns in Crysis and Crysis 2 I keep on semi-auto as well for that reason. Its not a "gun thing" at all. Its simply a "this is more fun" thing to me.

As for cover, I dont find it a whole big problem. Im fast enough I can pop up out of cover, unload on a brutha as he's running or whatever and have him killed pretty quick so I can duck back into cover. You put a barrel extension on a level 10 Predator and its a pretty potent gun especially when its surgically accurate and you can unload a clip in a dude in a second or two. That one pistol I cant think of the name is a little faster than the Predator but with its recoil, its impossible to do stuff like that. So for my way to work its gotta have no recoil and be very accurate.

The N7 Eagle and M5 Phalanx are both that way. A bit more powerful, with higher recoil. The N7 Eagle is a little better in this regard than the M5 Phalanx is. But the Phalanx is definitely the more powerful of the two. It used to be more powerful than the M-6 Carnifex in ME2. Not sure why they changed it. The M-77 Paladin is a more powerful variant of the Carnifex and with a higher caliber barrel it typically kills most enemies in 1 or 2 hits. With a head shot, it can drop most in 1.

Don't get me wrong, I'm fast enough to pop in and out of cover safely too as I can do it on hardcore with the M3 Predator as well. I'm forced to in the first mission. But you are still out of cover longer than if you popped up, fired once, got a kill and dropped back down. In the same time it takes me to kill something with a Predator, I can kill two or three enemies with something else.

 

[MacLeod]

The N7 Eagle and M5 Phalanx are both that way. A bit more powerful, with higher recoil. The N7 Eagle is a little better in this regard than the M5 Phalanx is. But the Phalanx is definitely the more powerful of the two. It used to be more powerful than the M-6 Carnifex in ME2. Not sure why they changed it. The M-77 Paladin is a more powerful variant of the Carnifex and with a higher caliber barrel it typically kills most enemies in 1 or 2 hits. With a head shot, it can drop most in 1.

Don't get me wrong, I'm fast enough to pop in and out of cover safely too as I can do it on hardcore with the M3 Predator as well. I'm forced to in the first mission. But you are still out of cover longer than if you popped up, fired once, got a kill and dropped back down. In the same time it takes me to kill something with a Predator, I can kill two or three enemies with something else.

So I played around with the different guns tonight and I still like the Predator best. The Phalanx has a much slower rate of fire. If I want to play with a slower firing gun, Ill use the Carnifax cause it is much more powerful and has a cool sound to it. The Paladin was just painfully slow. Better make sure you get the guy in the first hit because itll be a good 45 seconds before you can fire again. I guess Im just not a good enough shot for that. I need to spray it around a little more to be effective.

 

[Dan_D]

So I played around with the different guns tonight and I still like the Predator best. The Phalanx has a much slower rate of fire. If I want to play with a slower firing gun, Ill use the Carnifax cause it is much more powerful and has a cool sound to it. The Paladin was just painfully slow. Better make sure you get the guy in the first hit because itll be a good 45 seconds before you can fire again. I guess Im just not a good enough shot for that. I need to spray it around a little more to be effective.

The Carnifex and the M-77 Paladin should have the same rate of fire. The M-77 is more powerful, but it holds 4 rounds instead of 6. This can be mitigated somewhat with magazine mods, but essentially they are the same gun I believe.

But I'm now curious so I'm going to verify that. I usually use the M-77 Paladin because it's more powerful. I come from the old school shooters like Quake 3 where you had your rail gun. It was pin point accurate, but you had to be fast and accurate to use it well. Targets moved incredibly quick, but it was almost always a one shot kill if you could land the hit. Due to playing that so much back in the day, this method of thinking and play stuck with me. As a result I still always prefer more powerful weapons. I can hit fast and on the move. Lead moving targets, etc. I take moving head shots with the Black Widow all the time in multiplayer.

This method also turned me into a kill stealing bastard. I'll see people using weak weapons, taking forever, having to reload etc. on enemies and then I'll head shot the bastard and steal the kill because they were taking too long.

 

[MacLeod]

Now dont get me wrong, I dont want no pump action pea shooters. I like a rapid fire rate but I gotta have a little bit of umph behind it. I wouldnt use the Predator if it was a puny weakling but its got some beef behind it especially with the extended barrel. Try it for a little bit. You might be surprised by how fast you can mow somebody down once you mod it some and get the upper level versions. Youre right tho that bone stock and level 1, the Predator isnt much better than a sling shot.

I go back to Doom in 95 for my shooters and there I liked both the shotgun and the chain gun which didnt require a lot of pin point accuracy. Just hold it in the general vicinity and let 'er rip. Ah the good old days.

 

[Dan_D]

Now dont get me wrong, I dont want no pump action pea shooters. I like a rapid fire rate but I gotta have a little bit of umph behind it. I wouldnt use the Predator if it was a puny weakling but its got some beef behind it especially with the extended barrel. Try it for a little bit. You might be surprised by how fast you can mow somebody down once you mod it some and get the upper level versions. Youre right tho that bone stock and level 1, the Predator isnt much better than a sling shot.

I go back to Doom in 95 for my shooters and there I liked both the shotgun and the chain gun which didnt require a lot of pin point accuracy. Just hold it in the general vicinity and let 'er rip. Ah the good old days.

In the single player game, most all of my weapons are level X variants excluding those I'm not far enough in the game to acquire at level VIII and beyond. Everything else is at least at level VII. I did the opening mission with the M3 Predator VII (currently can not be upgraded past level VII in single player, possibly due to a bug) and while it was servicable, I'd have preferred anything else. And speaking of..........

If you have the Collector's Edition, then the N7 Eagle would be up your alley. Compared to the M-3 Predator the N7 Eagle is lighter weight, has considerably more capacity, and a much greater rate of fire. Power and accuracy are identical to that of the M-3 Predator. It's what I used until I got the M-6 Carnifex. Which by the way, the M-6 Carnifex and the M-77 Paladin are the same. The only difference is capacity, weight and damage. The M-77 is lighter, holds less, but packs a meaner punch. Fire rate and all other stats are the same.

And mods like the extended barrel are meaningless. Those can be applied to the other pistols as well vastly improving their damage as well.

 

[Ryom]

The problem with low-damage high fire rate weapons is that armor does a set damage reduction per hit. So a low damage weapon gets 95% of its damage mitigated while a high damage weapon only take a small fraction damage penalty. The weapons also don't get the bonuses to defenses like they did in ME2 (i.e. fast firing weapons don't have a bonus versus shields). In short, there is every reason to pick a high-damage low-fire rate weapon over the opposite. That is why the Black Widow/Valiant, GPS/Graal and Carnifex/Talon are the best weapons in the game... extreme damage AND reasonably rapid fire rates.

 

[Dan_D]

The problem with low-damage high fire rate weapons is that armor does a set damage reduction per hit. So a low damage weapon gets 95% of its damage mitigated while a high damage weapon only take a small fraction damage penalty. The weapons also don't get the bonuses to defenses like they did in ME2 (i.e. fast firing weapons don't have a bonus versus shields). In short, there is every reason to pick a high-damage low-fire rate weapon over the opposite. That is why the Black Widow/Valiant and GPS/Graal are the best weapons in the game... extreme damage AND reasonably rapid fire rates.

Aside from the damage, flexibility also comes into play. Though the Black Widow is relatively heavy, it can pierce cover and is good against armor without armor piercing ammunition or the sniper rifle penetration mod. This frees up your mod slots for other things. And it's good against pretty much everything. The M-96 Mattock is good for all types of targets at medium to long range. It's fine up close, but not against multiple enemies. The M-76 Revenant has the opposite problem. Great for lots of enemies and superb up close, but suffers at medium to long range. The M-55 Argus is great up close and blows for medium and long range use. Some weapons also perform poorly outside of cover due to stability/accuracy issues.

The best weapons in the game are not only strong damage wise, but maintain flexibility for most situations. The M-96 Mattock is good for almost any situation, but concussive shot, or another power / weapon needs to be available to cover the weapons one weakness. Player skill can mitigate some of these problems as well. I used the Mattock because it was powerful in ME2, and I've learned to deal with it's limitations. The N7 Valkyrie is almost the perfect rifle. The only thing I wish it did was hit a little harder. It also bothers me that it sits a bit too low on Shepard's back. Though that's just a cosmetic thing. The M-37 Falcon and a few other guns don't "look right" either and it bothers me during cut scenes.

But getting back on topic................

Almost every weapon has strengths and weaknesses in ME3. Unlike ME2 where bonuses for certain things came into play, ME3 really only works situationally. Some advantages or disadvantages only effect multiplayer, or single player. Though overlap isn't uncommon. In multiplayer the M-3 Predator is lighter than SMG's and does about the same damage due to it's high rate of fire. So there it is a decent choice for classes dependent on powers. As I said before, some weaknesses are present though in both single player and MP. For example: The M-3 Predator, and in fact any handgun is a poor choice for fighting something like an Atlas. With the M-3 Predator, you just don't do enough damage. With the M-77 Paladin, you can't fire enough shots to take it out quickly. Something like a Phantom, a Nemesis or other fast moving enemy is easier to take out with something that has a higher fire rate as you'll need to be able to put more shots down range to take them down just because they are hard to hit in general. Powers aside, with something like the M-77 Paladin or Black Widow, you'll have to get lucky and just get a nice bead on them while they stop to take cover and present their head to you. But in general this tactic can be a fatal mistake. With stasis or something to slow them down, weapons like the Widow and M-77 Paladin begin to make more sense. If you have stasis, or another power which can slow the enemy down, having to shoot a Nemesis 10 times with an M-3 Predator is stupid. You want to fire once or twice with a M-77 Paladin, a couple times with a M-96 Mattock or once with a Black Widow / M-98 Widow / Javelin to do the job.

So as good as you might be, you are making things harder on yourself. While I have my favorite loadouts as I'm sure most of us do, when I know what the mission will call for, I change it up to make things easier. Just as I am careful to choose squad mates which are an asset to the mission and make up for my Shepard's weaknesses, I do the same with my weapons choices.

 

[shantd]

Jesus. I'm glad my life isn't so sad that I have to put that much work into finding all the faults and plot holes of 3, 40 hour long games. (aimed at the author of that blog, not Lenin).

Yeah there are plot holes and bad direction. The Star Wars movies are chocker block full of plot holes, bad dialogue and bad direction. So what? They're some of the greatest movies of all time.

Maybe I'm alone in this but I game as a form a therapy. I want my games to immerse me into them so I can forget about bills, 2 crappy jobs and so on for a few hours. Mass Effect does this in spades. I sit down and can get lost in this game. I couldn't care less if there are some plot holes and less than Oscar winning voice acting and I don't get my physics books out to make sure what theyre doing doesn't violate E=MC2. I just want cool space battles, scenery, atmosphere and story and Mass Effect delivers. Yeah Francis Ford Coppola could've written and directed a better story but I think this one is just fine. You've got cool ass giant living machines coming to destroy the galaxy and you've gotta run around and figure out how to stop them with the best cast of characters in gaming history along with first rate music and atmosphere.

I think some people need to take a breath, sit back and just enjoy the games and quit spending so much time focusing on all the negatives cause they're outweighed by the positives by 1000:1.

You took the words outta my mouth dude. With the attitude that author has, it's a wonder he's able to enjoy anything in life.

 

[shantd]

Its more "fun" to use IMO. I like going all Lethal Weapon and firing the pistol fast. Don't know why but I've always preferred semi-auto fire modes on all my guns and a high fire rate as opposed to a slow firing, more powerful or full auto. Guess I feel more "involved" by firing each round independently or something. That goes all the way back to Max Payne. I used a single Beretta most of the time for its high fire rate.

I really like the Carnifax but its way too slow. There's another one that I can't remember the name of but its very fast but the recoil is horrible and its hard to rapid fire accurately. The Predator is deadly accurate and it'll fire as fast as you can click. So while its not as powerful as the Carnifax, I can fire off 15 rounds to the Carnifax's 1 so damage wise, the Predator is pretty good especially with the barrel extension. Now that I'm up to a "X" model, I can take out Brutes, Atlas and just about anything with it on Hardcore difficulty.

Totally agree with this as well. It may not be the 'best' gun, but it is hands down the most fun pistol to shoot. I really tried to use other pistols, but I couldn't stay away from the firing rate and perfect 'kick' that the predator provides.

 

[Dan_D]

Totally agree with this as well. It may not be the 'best' gun, but it is hands down the most fun pistol to shoot. I really tried to use other pistols, but I couldn't stay away from the firing rate and perfect 'kick' that the predator provides.

I find it miserable and painful to use. Firing 15 times to kill something when 1 shot will do is just silly. But to each their own I guess. And as I said before, for fast moving targets those weapons do make a certain amount of sense, but this need can be mitigated in several ways. Just take Liara with you and put the fast moving target in stasis and explode it's head with something that isn't a pea shooter. But if I was going to go for that tactic and use a fast firing handgun, I'd take the N7 Eagle every time. Greater firing rate and higher capacity than the M3 Predator. The damage is the same, but again the firing rate is increased so the DPS goes up.

 

[shantd]

You do realize it's not actually 15 to 1, right? Besides that, you're talking about tactics and such and you're missing the whole point of 'feel'. What makes a gun feel good to shoot in a video game is actually a far more tricky/subtle culmination of qualities than most people realize. The sound, the kick, firing rate, and the sense of impact, they all need to be just right. For whatever reason, all those things stack up just right with the predator. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind more damage, but when it's maxed it's not that bad. Certainly gets the job done with a sufficiently active trigger finger. The Phalanx I felt was the best combination of damage and firing rate (I don't have access to the N7 eagle) so I used that a lot as well. Probably got me better results but again, the fun factor just isn't the same.

 

[Dan_D]

You do realize it's not actually 15 to 1, right? Besides that, you're talking about tactics and such and you're missing the whole point of 'feel'. What makes a gun feel good to shoot in a video game is actually a far more tricky/subtle culmination of qualities than most people realize. The sound, the kick, firing rate, and the sense of impact, they all need to be just right. For whatever reason, all those things stack up just right with the predator. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind more damage, but when it's maxed it's not that bad. Certainly gets the job done with a sufficiently active trigger finger. The Phalanx I felt was the best combination of damage and firing rate (I don't have access to the N7 eagle) so I used that a lot as well. Probably got me better results but again, the fun factor just isn't the same.

I know 15 to 1 isn't accurate. It's probably closer to 7 or 8 to 1. And the M-5 Phalanx in this game is closer to the N7 Eagle. It's more powerful of course, but slower. It's somewhere in between the M-3 Predator and the M-6 Carnifex. As for feel, I do know what you mean. Shooting the M-5 Phalanx in ME2 or the M-6 Carnifex/M-77 Paladin is like shooting a Desert Eagle or a .44 magnum instead of a 9mm which is closer to how the M-3 Predator feels. In real life I actually prefer .45ACP and larger calibers to 9mm. So yeah, I get that you guys like the feel of the M-3 Predator, even if it makes very little sense in the game.

And again, tactics wise, there are valid uses for a lot of the guns in the game. I pointed out the one use for weaker and faster guns in the game. I also pointed out their huge disadvantages. All the best weapons in the game as far as most people are concerned are the most powerful as well. Hell I could just rock the M-99 Saber alone and be able to use adrenaline rush nearly all the time, but I don't want to play the game like that. So yeah, I understand where you are coming from even if I have an opposing view.

 

[Drown Babies]

Well my take on the original plot is that the Reapers were trying something new with the form of the Reaper being different. To date all other Reapers share common forms. They are either like Harbiner or Sovereign, with subtle unique variations in each, or they are destroyers like the one on Rannoch. If the Reaper was made to look like the species it came from then almost none of them would look like the one's we've seen. But I do believe that the genetic material of the species is distilled in Reaper form by making them into meat paste and infusing it with something. They preserve the DNA of the harvested species in this way. Also, do not forget that the Rachni pass genetic memory in a very literal way. The Asari actually only use genetic memory and information when they mate with another species. They do not actually take DNA from the father species.

I guess the Reaper ships are a kind of shell around the actual Reaper, at least according to the lead writer.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/04/21/mass-effect-a-q-amp-a-for-hardcore-fans.aspx?PostPageIndex=1

 

[Bankie]

I come from the old school shooters like Quake 3 where you had your rail gun. It was pin point accurate, but you had to be fast and accurate to use it well. Targets moved incredibly quick, but it was almost always a one shot kill if you could land the hit. Due to playing that so much back in the day, this method of thinking and play stuck with me. As a result I still always prefer more powerful weapons. I can hit fast and on the move. Lead moving targets, etc. I take moving head shots with the Black Widow all the time in multiplayer.

lol. You just described me. I like to use the Spike Thrower shotgun in SP because it feels similar to the railgun IMO.

 

[Dan_D]

I guess the Reaper ships are a kind of shell around the actual Reaper, at least according to the lead writer.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/04/21/mass-effect-a-q-amp-a-for-hardcore-fans.aspx?PostPageIndex=1

I've heard that before but never knew the lead writer had said something about that. Interesting.