Mantle is here

magoo said:
That will be a wise choice if you only want to play BF4 for the next two years......;)
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Because it takes two years to adapt a game to Mantle ofcourse. No way AMD would make something easily implementable and also market it like that. That's also the premise of Mantle: to make it much harder to get performance out of existing hardware.

Yes, all the above is 100% sarcastic because trolls only deserve sarcastifood.
 
magoo said:
That will be a wise choice if you only want to play BF4 for the next two years......;)
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Possibly if they keep providing DLCs and if for some reason Frostbite engine doesn't get used in other future games and other engines don't follow suit.

Keep an eye on this space...

http://techreport.com/news/25651/mantle-to-power-15-frostbite-games-dice-calls-for-multi-vendor-support

http://www.frostbite.com/games/future-games/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frostbite_(game_engine)

Plus, crypto currency and password/hash recovery rates are much superior on AMD GPUs. $1K Titan mining rate is lower than ~$200 R9 270X. :D

https://litecoin.info/Mining_hardware_comparison
 
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mi7chy said:
Nothing wrong with that chart. You just need to open your mind and come to the realization that a strong GPU like the R9 290/290X make more of a difference than CPU and Mantle is further extension of that. Wouldn't be surprised to see budget Kaveri show up near the top of that chart.

Interesting...

http://www.guru3d.com/index.php?ct=articles&action=file&id=9016
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except it's 3 months old on a game that had such a horrible release filled with bugs that the game from 3 months ago is not the same. There is also the difference of Intel Core i7-4770K (3.50GHz) vs 4.5Ghz, BF4 being cpu bound...

Plus that's a 780 ti, else it wouldn't be labeled 780 GHz why don't you look at the thing first
http://translate.google.com/transla...l=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http://pclab.pl/art55953.html

They list the map they use and if it's done in single player or multi player.
You dismiss the whole thing because you don't believe in one thing, the whole review isn't like that. Plus you're dismissal is based off a chart you saw 3 months ago for a newly released game?

Hell if you don't want to believe things why do you believe any mantel fps report? All of the mantel recordings are done inside the game itself. As there isn't a current method to get frame data outside of what the game says because AMD hasn't release it yet for people to dick around and look at it throughly.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/R9_290X_Direct_Cu_II_OC/9.html
XK0elr1.gif

Nvidia cards run even better in bf4 if techpowerup used windows 8 instead of 7. The polish site used windows 8 for their tests
 
It just looks like the image is compressed like shit to me, and it's not a very high res image to begin with
 
I think he means he doesnt trust its performance evaluation enough to switch from the green team
 
The Mac said:
I think he means he doesnt trust its performance evaluation enough to switch from the green team
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Good. That means one less person in the wait queue and less reason for the jacked up pricing.

Ideal is when 290/290X are readily available there's a die shrink to ~20nm.
 
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Phuncz said:
Because it takes two years to adapt a game to Mantle ofcourse. No way AMD would make something easily implementable and also market it like that. That's also the premise of Mantle: to make it much harder to get performance out of existing hardware.

Yes, all the above is 100% sarcastic because trolls only deserve sarcastifood.
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He engaged in some hyperbole there but he does have a good point. What percentage of a person's game library is going to have a Mantle renderer in two years? Even if you go with a generous number of 50%, it seems to follow that you can't really go and skimp on CPU hardware because you still want to play the other 50%.

So if you're into gaming you're probably still going to prefer an i5 or above.
 
jwcalla said:
So if you're into gaming you're probably still going to prefer an i5 or above.
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Yup, if you want to run emulators for "newer" consoles, you'll want at least an i5+. If you do anything else on your computer besides gaming you probably don't want the lowest end CPU.
 
PcZac said:
Yup, if you want to run emulators for "newer" consoles, you'll want at least an i5+. If you do anything else on your computer besides gaming you probably don't want the lowest end CPU.
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Mantle and HSA computing are the future. Pointless to invest in old thinking mentality.

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/174632-amd-kaveri-a10-7850k-and-a8-7600-review-was-it-worth-the-wait-for-the-first-true-heterogeneous-chip/5

With HSA enabled, however, performance skyrockets — AMD’s A10-7850K is more than 5x faster than the Core i5-4670.
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Also, quad and hexa core are useless for ESXi. Versatility in running ESXi with IOMMU, crypto currency mining, password and hash recovery rates, trend with highly multi-threaded gaming and bang for the buck currently influence my buying decision.
 
My advice is to buy hardware for exisiting applications and games, if the software you use don't support HSA computing, there's no reason to buy hardware for it. Same thing for Mantle, or even g-sync. Playing the waiting game always sucks, and there's always something new on the horizon, you never know how supported any tech will be. If you are going to spend most of your time playing Battlefield 4, sure buy a card that supports Mantle. If you are going to play a large mix of games, and nothing you play right now has mantle, just buy that card with the best performance for the price.
 
Mantle isn't something new, it's just the end of a decade old cease-fire and a return to something OLD.

When Nvidia finished off 3dfx and bought out what was left of them, the last hold-out using a custom API was put away and everyone had agreed to rally around the standard that is D3D.

The fact that AMD is willing to fire the first shot, take the momentum and break the truce isn't really a badge of honor. Nvidia is also perfectly capable of improving performance by building their cards around a custom API. Up until now it has been for the good of the gaming industry to standardize around DirectX.

I'm not calling AMD bad or evil for choosing to go back to this line of thinking, but this could be a bit short sighted just to pick up some sales today. They have now started this war again in earnest, and long term it may not be AMD that has the resources to end it.

Good luck to all of us. I just want gaming to advance.
 
Advil said:
Mantle isn't something new, it's just the end of a decade old cease-fire and a return to something OLD.

When Nvidia finished off 3dfx and bought out what was left of them, the last hold-out using a custom API was put away and everyone had agreed to rally around the standard that is D3D.

The fact that AMD is willing to fire the first shot, take the momentum and break the truce isn't really a badge of honor. Nvidia is also perfectly capable of improving performance by building their cards around a custom API. Up until now it has been for the good of the gaming industry to standardize around DirectX.

I'm not calling AMD bad or evil for choosing to go back to this line of thinking, but this could be a bit short sighted just to pick up some sales today. They have now started this war again in earnest, and long term it may not be AMD that has the resources to end it.

Good luck to all of us. I just want gaming to advance.
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It's not a completely closed API. AMD has publicly stated that their intent is to open it up to become a new de-facto standard.

Frankly, I don't think anyone really wants MS to have a strangehold on the advancement of graphics APIs (and yes I know that OpenGL is open as well but it might as well be dead for gaming at this point).
 
Mantle also happens to allow the closer to hardware coding for BOTH consoles to be easier to implement on the PC
 
Advil said:
Up until now it has been for the good of the gaming industry to standardize around DirectX.
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DirectX has been a net positive for PC gaming, yes. Whether Mantle ends up being a net positive remains to be seen.

Rizen said:
Frankly, I don't think anyone really wants MS to have a strangehold on the advancement of graphics APIs (and yes I know that OpenGL is open as well but it might as well be dead for gaming at this point).
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Nine of the sixteen currently-featured games on the Steam store support either OpenGL as an option or are exclusively OpenGL.
 
Rizen said:
It's not a completely closed API. AMD has publicly stated that their intent is to open it up to become a new de-facto standard.

Frankly, I don't think anyone really wants MS to have a strangehold on the advancement of graphics APIs (and yes I know that OpenGL is open as well but it might as well be dead for gaming at this point).
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It's as "open" as Android is "open" even if nvidia adapted drivers to run off mantle they would have to run it though an interpreter which would mean any gains by the use of a low level api would be lost to the cpu overhead of the interpreter ie might as well just be directX.

OpenGL isn't dead it's just costly to use, it requires the use of alot of extra in-house work to be done during game development. DirectX is a full toolset encompassing everything you need to make a game, opengl just is analogous to direct3d part of directX it's the support and other tools you have at your disposal that makes directX attractive.
thebufenator said:
Mantle also happens to allow the closer to hardware coding for BOTH consoles to be easier to implement on the PC
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that doesn't change anything for consoles, consoles have used low level api's and direct access for a long time... and it's not like you could make a game in matel and auto port it to pc, it's as silly as saying making a game in opengl in windows means it will be effortless to port over to mac and linux.
 
Big devs stay away from OpenGL because AMD's drivers are so awful. It's just a fact. Everyone remembers the Rage disaster. Look at how long Valve stalled many of their Linux game releases waiting on AMD to fix their stuff.

It's not an exaggeration to say that -- today -- Intel has better OpenGL drivers than AMD. It's ridiculous.
 
mi7chy said:
Good. That means one less person in the wait queue and less reason for the jacked up pricing.

Ideal is when 290/290X are readily available there's a die shrink to ~20nm.
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So long as miners have AMD cards as their sole source for max hash, you won't find them anywhere near MSRP.

Even with the cliff coming up, it's not going to magically stop overnight.
 
Phuncz said:
Because it takes two years to adapt a game to Mantle ofcourse. No way AMD would make something easily implementable and also market it like that. That's also the premise of Mantle: to make it much harder to get performance out of existing hardware.

Yes, all the above is 100% sarcastic because trolls only deserve sarcastifood.
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Please tell me how long it takes to produce a quality AAA game title?
Currently the only engine capable of using the Mantle is Frostbite.
There are titles "in the works" but only one right now.....BF4.....and that Star-whatever is in beta.

I was considering that it will be at least two years until mantle, if it does catch on, becomes wide spread enough to be used in many games for PC, enough to shelf high powered CPUs.

If you look at the benches from Guru3D, mantle does little for a current system (intel core i7).....but you'll need that system for every other title currently out or planned to be released this year.

No trolling..........just the facts as we see them right now.

and............get off my lawn.........damn kids............:rolleyes:

and you say "easily implemented".....how long have DICE and AMD been working on this?
At least two years to develop BF4 and they haven't had a smooth roll out of the DX version, not to mention all the bugs known by DICE and AMD for the mantle roll out.......now 4 months after the game was released.
I'm just pointing out reality here.
I realize a lot happened at once.....new version of Frostbite, new GPUs and new software......still, hasn't been very smooth.
 
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*edit :: Fixed my rubberbanding, unrelated packet loss/modem issues.

Mantle running smoooooth now
 
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Don't know why I'm unlucky, but mantle/14.1 is very unstable for me. Choppy fps, drops down to the teens at times. Exited out of BF4 and I'm getting artifacts on the desktop. Rebooted, still getting artifacts, mostly after opening chrome. Rebooted, tried IE and same artifacts. Tried to boot BF4 and it crashes.

I rolled back to 13.12 and all is good. I was hoping for a decent boost in performance so I could bump up the resolution scale slider but oh well - I can't complain with what I've got.
 
Mantle is absolutely mindblowing on my 3930K with Xfire 290X x2. WOW!

Absolutely Quadrupled performance in Star Swarm Demo. Trying BF4 next.
 
tangoseal said:
Mantle is absolutely mindblowing on my 3930K with Xfire 290X x2. WOW!

Absolutely Quadrupled performance in Star Swarm Demo. Trying BF4 next.
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Wait, so mantle performed well in a demo designed to show how well mantle performs?

I'm sort of curious about bf4 numbers but I don't play that one much any more.
 
LigTasm said:
Wait, so mantle performed well in a demo designed to show how well mantle performs?

I'm sort of curious about bf4 numbers but I don't play that one much any more.
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Quick nvidia release a demo with unnecessary amounts of tessellation.
 
LigTasm said:
Wait, so mantle performed well in a demo designed to show how well mantle performs?

I'm sort of curious about bf4 numbers but I don't play that one much any more.
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hey just reporting a mind blowing difference. You can bitch at me if you want. I justvreported what I seen. Nothing more. Not my fault if something was optimized or not. I can tellmyoummy cpu core isage across all.12 threads was crazy utilization.
 
tangoseal said:
hey just reporting a mind blowing difference. You can bitch at me if you want. I justvreported what I seen. Nothing more. Not my fault if something was optimized or not. I can tellmyoummy cpu core isage across all.12 threads was crazy utilization.
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It may be a mind blowing difference but it is as relevant as those various 3D Mark benchmark score things. In other words, worthless.

I am waiting for the BF4 benchmarks. Anandtech posted some, but I am hoping more sites post the results later today.
 
Flogger23m said:
It may be a mind blowing difference but it is as relevant as those various 3D Mark benchmark score things. In other words, worthless.

I am waiting for the BF4 benchmarks. Anandtech posted some, but I am hoping more sites post the results later today.
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No need to thread crap, there is already a Mantle BF4 thread. I suggest you head on over there.

OK, since I figured out how to change the resolution settings I can now run the Starswarm demo natively on my Plasma at 1360x768. I ran the demo at Ultra on my R250 with my i540 @ 4.0GHz. Win 7 Pro 64bit

DX - 18.56 fps
Mantle - 19.75 fps 6.41% increase

Although both were choppy Mantle seemed to run more smoothly. Pretty impressive since being on Ultra with that video card I didn't expect any gpu increase.
 
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wonderfield said:
DirectX has been a net positive for PC gaming, yes.
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In the past definitely. MS has however let it stagnate for quite a while now. If MS were properly managing DX AMD most likely never would've released Mantle since there would've been no need for it.
 
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