M3A2 Beta Project: Discontinued

[CMadki4]

I'm definitely interested to see a configuration with the button in the back. I don't need an optical drive, or audio ports on the front, and I probably don't need USB ports either. So I could go with a completely clean front panel, with just a tiny LED. An IR port would be nice, but that's not very noticeable anyway.

Is your power LED setup combined with the disk activity light, by flashing on and off or activating a different color LED?

Check my previous post for a rendering of your desired front panel.

I'll just being using an LED on the power indicator pins, no HDD activity.

i kind of miss the tricell logo in the first renders. maybe you could put the ir/led behind it (assuming it is completely punched out ?)

I like the logo as well, but took it out for no particular reason. I added it back in and actually quite like it.

I should be able to machine it all the way out to backlight it. I'll have to experiment with it. Cool idea.

I know you can wire an IR receiver to act as a power button could this be a possibility for turning the computer on and off?

That would be a clean solution. Definitely in the DIY realm at this point, as is the Xbox 360 control add-in, but both really great ideas.

 

[CMadki4]

Put the USB3 on bottom left edge, or on the side panel.

Why do you say that?

Putting on the side panel (the left one) would prohibit you from standing the case up. Well, you could but would not longer have access to your USB3.0 ports.

But on the bottom left edge is a possibility, but I like the symmetry of where it is. Edit: It also allows for maximum graphics card length and ensure the cable it out of the way of the GPU.

 

[Chime]

I know you can wire an IR receiver to act as a power button could this be a possibility for turning the computer on and off?

Here's a great thread on this topic - How to Power ON/OFF your HTPC using a remote - XBMC forums

If you have an Intel or ASRock motherboard with a CIR header, it's as simple as buying an IR receiver that uses said header and plugging it in. Inteset makes these, link for ASrock version here. Intel version here. They also make a version that uses an internal USB header which you can find here, though I believe you do need to do some wiring to be able to power on/off your PC with it. I also remember seeing a seperate PCB offered that allowed plug and play power on/off using the USB option, though I'll have to track that down again. If I find it I'll edit this post.

 

[Drown Babies]

Check my previous post for a rendering of your desired front panel.

I'll just being using an LED on the power indicator pins, no HDD activity.

I like the logo as well, but took it out for no particular reason. I added it back in and actually quite like it.

I should be able to machine it all the way out to backlight it. I'll have to experiment with it. Cool idea.

I like the clean look a lot, I also like the logo though. It would be great if one of the logo cutouts can be used as a power indicator.

 

[updawg]

http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/grove-touch-sensor-p-747.html?cPath=156_160

Use this touch sensor power button and make the logo the power button. I think that would be cool and unique.

 

[CMadki4]

I like the clean look a lot, I also like the logo though. It would be great if one of the logo cutouts can be used as a power indicator.

http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/grove-touch-sensor-p-747.html?cPath=156_160

Use this touch sensor power button and make the logo the power button. I think that would be cool and unique.

With some more development time these two ideas could be used simultaneously. Backlit logo with the touch sensor embedded. I'm assuming the metallic case and everything going on inside the case wouldn't cause issues with such a switch? And I'm no electrical expert. What additional circuitry would be required to make that switch work?

 

[Chime]

Looks like it would need to be behind a non-metallic surface to function. Wiring shouldn't be too hard, looks like you'd just need a +5v, ground, and then a signal wire to the motherboards power switch header.

It might be easy to accidentally power on/off the PC with this though.

 

[Machupo]

mmmm... clean black glass front fascia w/ touch controls

 

[CMadki4]

Looks like it would need to be behind a non-metallic surface to function. Wiring shouldn't be too hard, looks like you'd just need a +5v, ground, and then a signal wire to the motherboards power switch header.

It might be easy to accidentally power on/off the PC with this though.

Yeah, it might be easy to accidentally power off/sleep right in the middle of something...

For simplicity sake I think I'll hold off on this option, but I'll order one just to tinker with it. Seems like an interesting prospect.

mmmm... clean black glass front fascia w/ touch controls

Wouldn't that be something!?



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On an unrelated note, I think I can get another 1.5mm of CPU cooler clearance by going to a shorter standoff (0.25" rather than 0.312"). Any shorter (0.18" standoff) and I run into issues with the I/O shield on the back panel.

 

[Drown Babies]

Do these kind of touch sensors work as momentary switches? Can you hold your finger on them for a few seconds in the same way that you push a power button for 2 or 3 seconds to force a reboot / power-off?

 

[extide]

Why do you say that?

Putting on the side panel (the left one) would prohibit you from standing the case up. Well, you could but would not longer have access to your USB3.0 ports.

But on the bottom left edge is a possibility, but I like the symmetry of where it is. Edit: It also allows for maximum graphics card length and ensure the cable it out of the way of the GPU.

Well, I was thinking USB on edge for a cleaner look, but yeah it does introduce other issues. Maybe the other side?

As far as USB on bottom left edge, I think that looks better, but that's just my opinion

 

[ekuest]

mmmm... clean black glass front fascia w/ touch controls

black glass? why not plexi? way easier to work with, cheaper, lighter, and less likely to chip the corners or crack the whole thing.

cmad, in your last couple renders you had the usb ports really close together. i would recommend you space them out at least an inch since there are a lot of usb dongles that are thicker than just a port width. personally i like it without the logo, but i think its important for you to get your logo on there for brand recognition. you designed this, and you should get credit. if possible i think maybe it should be a sticker or something that is user removable with some acetone i they really want to.

power button should definitely be in front by default, but a custom option to move it to back is good. i have my gaming pc's power button in back so the front panel is completely clear except for the fan/filter. it looks great. i have to put my ear right up to it or put my hand on it to tell if its on. i hardly ever turn it off or on, just let it sleep, so the slightly inconvenient placement isnt an issue. if i was to have the same setup on an htpc in a cabinet with a bluray player underneath and an xbox on top then that placement would be incredibly inconvenient.

are you pretty set on an aluminum front panel? i think in a lot of cases a plexi front can look great too, and its much more friendly i think. one great thing is you can machine out recesses in it, and put the IR receiver and LEDs etc behind it and not have them visible from outside, giving you that clean look while also being functional.

 

[Chime]

Do these kind of touch sensors work as momentary switches? Can you hold your finger on them for a few seconds in the same way that you push a power button for 2 or 3 seconds to force a reboot / power-off?

This could work for that sort of functionality.

 

[CMadki4]

Plexi front panel.... hmm.... I may be able to do something like that eventually, but for the time being yes I'm set on aluminum. More likely in the near future would be to use the existing aluminum frame, but then machine out the front panel and have a plexi inlay, mounted flush. If I could get black tinted semi-transparent plex that would be slick... And do the aluminum natural brushed finish. Ooooh, sexy.

The USB3.0 ports are modeled after the existing dual port USB3.0 adapter II have. I actually haven't purchased these in quantity yet, so may I'll look for one that has the ports a little more spread out, but still fits where I need it to.

 

[Drown Babies]

The PC-Q12 has the same front panel layout, but with much better spacing between the USB ports, they about twice as far apart. I'll take a look and see if I can find out where the cable comes from if it's not a custom thing. Older models came with some ridiculous external USB extension cable for the front ports, but the newer versions have a regular internal header with a fairly long cable.

 

[CMadki4]

Here is an example configuration that I like:

• Front panel:
  • USB3.0
  • Slot-load optical
  • LED power button
• One (1) 3.5" HDD
• Two (2) 2.5" 9mm SSDs
• One (1) slim slot-load ODD

 

[CMadki4]

The PC-Q12 has the same front panel layout, but with much better spacing between the USB ports, they about twice as far apart. I'll take a look and see if I can find out where the cable comes from if it's not a custom thing. Older models came with some ridiculous external USB extension cable for the front ports, but the newer versions have a regular internal header with a fairly long cable.

I believe Lian Li does their own. or by a subsidiary. I can't say for sure though.

 

[CMadki4]

So.... if you're really want to use an AIO cooler you can do this; mount your fan externally and leave the radiator (up to 36mm thickness) inside. Good idea, bad idea? A little funny looking, but it would work...

It's basically just a color matched fan shroud to house the fan. It would attach with the same as a fan grill.

This would be an OPTION of course.

 

[illli]

i was pondering if something like that might be possible. have the rad outside, the chasis top sandwiched in the middle and the fans inside. if i were to do it myself i'd probably end up sawing off the thin vent slats for better air flow.

 

[ekuest]

i doubt that would work cuz even if theres enough thickness for the radiator, im not sure how youd get enough space for the hose coming out of the barbs. you could mod it with right angle fittings, but i doubt you could do it just stock.

EDIT: if you did it like illi says with the rad outside then youd just have to cut holes or a chuck out of the case top next to the fan grill and then it would probably work without modding the cooler.

 

[Drown Babies]

Here is an example configuration that I like:

• Front panel:
  • USB3.0
  • Slot-load optical
  • LED power button
• One (1) 3.5" HDD
• Two (2) 2.5" 9mm SSDs
• One (1) slim slot-load ODD

I think this is a nice standard layout. There are obviously lots of options for the front panel, but this looks really good.

 

[Chime]

I've been looking into the power on/off with remote things some more. This IR receiver from HDPlex uses an internal USB header for the IR commands and has a connector that you can plug into the power switch header on your motherboard to power/on off the PC. You also need to connect a single wire from the receiver to the +5VSB line on your ATX20/24 pin connector. This is pin number 9 on either connector.

You can also still use the power switch on the front of your case if you wire the IR receiver's power switch and the case's power switch to the motherboard header in parallel. Performance PC's has a y-splitter that makes this really easy.

Note: You only need to use the power switch connector/5VSB wires if your motherboard doesn't support power on from USB. If your motherboard supports power on from USB all you need to do is plug the USB connector into a USB header and you're good to go.

 

[CMadki4]

i was pondering if something like that might be possible. have the rad outside, the chasis top sandwiched in the middle and the fans inside. if i were to do it myself i'd probably end up sawing off the thin vent slats for better air flow.

i doubt that would work cuz even if theres enough thickness for the radiator, im not sure how youd get enough space for the hose coming out of the barbs. you could mod it with right angle fittings, but i doubt you could do it just stock.

EDIT: if you did it like illi says with the rad outside then youd just have to cut holes or a chuck out of the case top next to the fan grill and then it would probably work without modding the cooler.

From what I can see if you mount the fan outside and the rad inside the tubing can run down behind the graphics card riser. Just run the fan cord through one of the vent, mount the rad with the barbs towards the CPU and let the tube drape out and around the water block/pump. Should work.

I think this is a nice standard layout. There are obviously lots of options for the front panel, but this looks really good.

Yeah, I think this will be the standard and you can opt to add or remove features.

 

[CMadki4]

I'm thinking that with the variety of IR receivers it may be wise to located the IR window where there is more room. Maybe in the bottom center of the front panel. Internally, the receiver itself would be just behind the PSU. This area is larger than the area enclosed by the PSU exhaust duct. The HD Plex probably wouldn't fit in the duct, but would fit out in the open.

 

[Chime]

Yeah I'd tend to agree. Better safe than sorry.

 

[updawg]

I would definitely be interested in the HD Plex idea, I feel like it would attract more of the HTPC crowd and make this case a reality.

 

[updawg]

Also would it be possible to include two holes on the back for wifi cards? They are standard SMA connectors and it would be a simple nice addition.

 

[Drown Babies]

Here's an example of what I think is a good distance between the USB ports. I also like the clean look of this front panel; the power button is a little bright and for some terrible reason they decided to etch the little power button symbol into the aluminum, but overall I like this look.

Here's an idea of how cramped the CPU cooler can be. This is with a total height of 57mm (45mm heatsink with 12mm slim fan), also keep in mind that the standoffs in this case are really high, maybe 15mm or more. There is about 10mm clearance above the fan. The external dimensions of this case are about 90mm, but the side panels are only 2mm. You can see above how few intake ventilation holes there are, but it still remains fairly cool even with GPU stuffed in. The M3A2 should have much better ventilation, even with much more powerful, and hotter, components.

And here's a look at the back of the front panel USB ports, in the bottom right here. These things can be pretty bulky, with a fairly inflexible cable, so they can get in the way if they are put in a bad place. And I don't know how well you can see it, but the ports are mounted to a small metal bracket that is screwed into the overhang from the front panel. You can see the screw holding it in place along the far right edge. This prevents you from having to screw it directly into the front panel and potentially having screw holes through it.

 

[Chime]

Great pictures, DB! What CPU are you using, and what kind of temps are you getting? I'm hopeful that mild overclocking will be possible on air in the M3A2 with the right setup.

 

[Drown Babies]

It's an i5 3740, it's on an H77 board, so everything is at default clocks. At idle it's around 30-40C depending on the ambient air. For the past 2 or 3 hours I've been doing a few things that have kept the CPU at around 30-50% usage and the temp has stayed around 40-50C. I prioritize sound over temp, so I keep the fan at 50% (~1000RPM, which is just about inaudible) and don't start ramping up until the temp goes above 50C or so.

With basically unrestricted air coming in directly over the CPU, and maybe a proper 120mm fan I would expect much better performance with the M3A2. A bigger case fan will probably help a lot too. And I imagine that a much hotter GPU won't affect the CPU too much. It seems like the GPU and it's heat should be fairly compartmentalized because of the way it's oriented and the surrounding vents.

 

[CMadki4]

Also would it be possible to include two holes on the back for wifi cards? They are standard SMA connectors and it would be a simple nice addition.

Not a bad idea, I'll look into that. Do you have a suggestion as to where on the rear panel you'd prefer them to be?

Great pictures, DB! What CPU are you using, and what kind of temps are you getting? I'm hopeful that mild overclocking will be possible on air in the M3A2 with the right setup.

Yes, thanks DB for the pics! Nice setup you've got there.

It's an i5 3740, it's on an H77 board, so everything is at default clocks. At idle it's around 30-40C depending on the ambient air. For the past 2 or 3 hours I've been doing a few things that have kept the CPU at around 30-50% usage and the temp has stayed around 40-50C. I prioritize sound over temp, so I keep the fan at 50% (~1000RPM, which is just about inaudible) and don't start ramping up until the temp goes above 50C or so.

With basically unrestricted air coming in directly over the CPU, and maybe a proper 120mm fan I would expect much better performance with the M3A2. A bigger case fan will probably help a lot too. And I imagine that a much hotter GPU won't affect the CPU too much. It seems like the GPU and it's heat should be fairly compartmentalized because of the way it's oriented and the surrounding vents.

Agreed. The GPU should have really good access to fresh outside air on both the intake and backside of the card. I'm hopeful that this is a very effective means of cooling a high-end GPU in a small enclosure.

 

[Chime]

Quick question: how feasible would it be to have the GPU area partitioned from the rest of the case? I'm imagining the PCIE riser protruding through an aluminum panel, with a grommet for the power connector to go through. I honestly don't even know if this would be beneficial for temps, just thought I'd run it by you.

 

[illli]

i'm not sure how feasible it is but it reminds me of this design i saw a while back. always thought it was kinda interesting how it isolated the gpu from the rest. but i think it would require a ribbon cable to pull it off (or at least i've never seen a riser card that sophisticated)

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45440&d=1327499538

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45441&d=1327499543

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45437&d=1327499521

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45438&d=1327499526

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45439&d=1327499530

 

[CMadki4]

Quick question: how feasible would it be to have the GPU area partitioned from the rest of the case? I'm imagining the PCIE riser protruding through an aluminum panel, with a grommet for the power connector to go through. I honestly don't even know if this would be beneficial for temps, just thought I'd run it by you.

Hmmm, that's an idea. But I think you'd get pockets of hot air around the card that won't be able to be exhausted. I may experiment with that idea (good old cardboard prototyping), but I don't think it will make it into the first 10 Beta cases.

i'm not sure how feasible it is but it reminds me of this design i saw a while back. always thought it was kinda interesting how it isolated the gpu from the rest. but i think it would require a ribbon cable to pull it off (or at least i've never seen a riser card that sophisticated)

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45440&d=1327499538

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45441&d=1327499543

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45437&d=1327499521

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45438&d=1327499526

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45439&d=1327499530

Interesting design. Again, the GPU being isolated may cause trapped pockets of hot air. Testing would prove or disprove this.

 

[Daemos]

Interesting design. Again, the GPU being isolated may cause trapped pockets of hot air. Testing would prove or disprove this.

I agree with you, you might need a separate exhaust fan to move air out of that compartment, unless if the cooler on the GPU is really efficient.

 

[illli]

i notice in those renderings the gpu fan is facing down. wonder if the orientation would affect anything, for example if the fan was facing up instead. it would also make it easier to connect the gpu to the motherboard. probably in such a small space a lot of ventilation on all sides would be needed

 

[CMadki4]

i notice in those renderings the gpu fan is facing down. wonder if the orientation would affect anything, for example if the fan was facing up instead. it would also make it easier to connect the gpu to the motherboard. probably in such a small space a lot of ventilation on all sides would be needed

I've seen both executed successfully with great thermal performance. For this run I'm opting for this downward facing orientation for drive configuration and being able to use nice short risers. An upward facing GPU is not out of the question for future revisions or special request.

 

[CMadki4]

Is the spacing between the two parts a big concern to most? Would 1 port be preferred over the two close together?

I'm working on sourcing these now.

 

[Chime]

Its not a big concern for me, and a single port would also be fine.

 

[DG25]

i'm not sure how feasible it is but it reminds me of this design i saw a while back. always thought it was kinda interesting how it isolated the gpu from the rest. but i think it would require a ribbon cable to pull it off (or at least i've never seen a riser card that sophisticated)

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45440&d=1327499538

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45441&d=1327499543

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45437&d=1327499521

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45438&d=1327499526

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45439&d=1327499530

That's my design i've posted there some time ago. Already have a workable PCIe 16x ribbon cable about 9.5" long, just enough to fit in that configuration (behind the mobo). The original was shorter but i've extended it by replacing the cable with a longer one (old ATA66 ribbon cable ) and shielding it with alu tape. I've seen even longer extensions cables being sold, so i don't think length is a problem for this case.

i notice in those renderings the gpu fan is facing down. wonder if the orientation would affect anything, for example if the fan was facing up instead. it would also make it easier to connect the gpu to the motherboard. probably in such a small space a lot of ventilation on all sides would be needed

It isn't intended to sit that way, i just took the screens from that angle to better show the components. It's much more thermal efficient if it stands tall, like this: http://i.imgur.com/At3jcwL.jpg All three sides would need to have vents (left for the GPU, right side for the PSU and mobo, and some vents at the top, so the heat can rise and escape naturally, especially the air from the PSU's exhaust, since i've changed the PSU's orientation in the last revision).

If you want the smallest possible gaming case, this is it. It can even fit a nvidia Titan, if needed. For the CPU, something like a Scythe Big Shuriken 2 should fit. Only the PSU needs to have custom lenght cables, because there's no room for extra cable storage. Though i think if i move the hdds a little bit lower, into GPU's area, i could make room for them.