LG 48CX

madpistol

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Yet they worked with Nvidia on these things for G-Sync support so I am sure procuring a pre-production 3080 would not have been much of a problem. They must have had some way to test HDMI 2.1 anyway even if it is backwards compatible. Remember that the 2019 C9 series was already fully HDMI 2.1 but suffered from some of the same issues the CX had so it took them quite a long time to fix them. Glad they did, but they do deserve some flack for not testing well enough in the first place as many of the issues are easy to replicate and were discovered early after release by end users.

I blamed some of the issues on my Club3D adapter but turns out things like wrong color spaces for HDR and some of the handshake issues were totally problems with the TV.
Before we begin throwing shade at LG over this, lets consider that most issues that were discovered were somewhat niche and only discoverable by people putting the TV through its paces. That's not me making excuses for LG, but it is literally impossible for them to correct every bug before pushing the product to market.
 

Dan_D

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Before we begin throwing shade at LG over this, lets consider that most issues that were discovered were somewhat niche and only discoverable by people putting the TV through its paces. That's not me making excuses for LG, but it is literally impossible for them to correct every bug before pushing the product to market.

Keep in mind that using a large TV as a computer monitor is a niche. Yes, these TV's cater to that niche, but only a fraction of these TV's will ever be used for that purpose. Therefore, it's not surprising that these issues take more time to identify and fix than they would if we were talking about console or other things like cable TV, streaming, etc. There is also no way for them to test all the possible GPU and software combinations out there ahead of time. It's not surprising that they have to fix issues on an ongoing basis after release.
 

kasakka

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Before we begin throwing shade at LG over this, lets consider that most issues that were discovered were somewhat niche and only discoverable by people putting the TV through its paces. That's not me making excuses for LG, but it is literally impossible for them to correct every bug before pushing the product to market.
There were some quite obvious ones like the pixel shift at 4K 120 Hz blurring the image that anyone would easily see. Overall it seems that testing for HDMI 2.1 and 4K 120 Hz was not very extensive considering how many issues that particular setup caused. Not to mention the CX was worse in this regard compared to the C9 which did not suffer from the same issues.

High end TVs and monitors are generally not cheap products so seeing them dumped on the market with various issues all the time is annoying. While all products will have some problems, displays are at the bottom of the barrel for getting fixes and improvements. LG has been better at it than many other manufacturers but the situation could still be a lot better.
 

mirkendargen

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There were some quite obvious ones like the pixel shift at 4K 120 Hz blurring the image that anyone would easily see. Overall it seems that testing for HDMI 2.1 and 4K 120 Hz was not very extensive considering how many issues that particular setup caused. Not to mention the CX was worse in this regard compared to the C9 which did not suffer from the same issues.

High end TVs and monitors are generally not cheap products so seeing them dumped on the market with various issues all the time is annoying. While all products will have some problems, displays are at the bottom of the barrel for getting fixes and improvements. LG has been better at it than many other manufacturers but the situation could still be a lot better.
But then they'd need to actually have compelling features to make you buy next year's model instead of just fixing some bugs with the previous year's.
 

improwise

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Quick question, are the days when we could use something else than MKJ39170828 to access the service menu gone now? I recall there used to be an app etc for it.
 

kasakka

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Quick question, are the days when we could use something else than MKJ39170828 to access the service menu gone now? I recall there used to be an app etc for it.
You can use an Android phone with an IR blaster and the LG Service Menu app.
 

MrTX

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Is the app free or does it cost a few bucks?

I mean, the service remote is only like $8, so pretty cheap anyway.
 

kasakka

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Is the app free or does it cost a few bucks?

I mean, the service remote is only like $8, so pretty cheap anyway.
Costs a few bucks. Less than the service remote if you have a phone that works for that. For me the service remote would have been more expensive due to shipping from abroad.
 

RadXge

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The recommendations from THX are for viewing movies, not playing video games.
I use the same eyes for movies and games... I guess it is the same for you.

This is even more important for games than movies: you generally do not want to move your neck around to compensate for the blurriness near the sides of the screen (which is due to the decreased resolution in the eyes beyond 45 degree of vision).
 

elvn

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Some games benefit from immersive sides a little more , like racing and flying games, especially if running an ultrawide resolution. Those types of games where you aren't looking at the sides all of the time but being immersed by them in your periphery. Some RTS type games are also fine with moving your eyes around a little or being able to see movement in your periphery since it's typically just a big war map you can pan around to move a different area in to the center.

The viewing angle in relation to what kind of game is important. I agree that extreme viewing angles for some games is bad. Personally I want most of the types of games I play to be visible in my main view for the most part ..
....but the other important factor is the PPD.

20/20 vision threshold is 60 PPD which starts at (meaning no closer than)
33.5" viewing distance and 64 degree viewing angle for a 48" 16:9 4k screen (and starts at ~1.5' on a 27" 4k)


Sitting any closer will be much poorer text and aliasing. You can try to compensate with aggressive AA and try to tweak subpixel sampling on text but it's still not optimal.

While
33.5" - 60 PPD - 64deg is the nearest you can sit while still within the 20/20 vision threshold, personally I think what's best for this screen is:

38" -- 41" - 44.4" - 48" view distance
66.6 - 72 -- 76 - -- 81.5 PPD
58 - - 54 -- 50 --- 47 degree horizontal viewing angle
 
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Skott

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4,196
Before we begin throwing shade at LG over this, lets consider that most issues that were discovered were somewhat niche and only discoverable by people putting the TV through its paces. That's not me making excuses for LG, but it is literally impossible for them to correct every bug before pushing the product to market.
Well if a manufacturer says its product will do something then yes the consumer has every right to expect it to work out of the box as advertised. I get the whole bug problem issue but I also expect there to be no bugs to begin with. I dont care what the product is. This is why we have such buggy things in our lives because manufacturers think we consumers wont notice or care when we do. I will give LG kudos for with sticking their product, caring about their consumer and fixing it however. I'm glad they have done that. Their commitment is commendable but it shouldn't leave the factory fully untested and working as advertised. Just my two cents.
 

kasakka

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Well if a manufacturer says its product will do something then yes the consumer has every right to expect it to work out of the box as advertised. I get the whole bug problem issue but I also expect there to be no bugs to begin with. I dont care what the product is. This is why we have such buggy things in our lives because manufacturers think we consumers wont notice or care when we do. I will give LG kudos for with sticking their product, caring about their consumer and fixing it however. I'm glad they have done that. Their commitment is commendable but it shouldn't leave the factory fully untested and working as advertised. Just my two cents.
Since everything nowadays is software driven, every single thing you use has bugs. The difference is bugs that happen in edge cases or a small fraction of systems vs bugs that happen to everyone. You want to get rid of the ones that happen to everyone but we see it all the time that game and hardware gets released with severe issues. I bet behind every one of those has a team of developers or engineers saying "it's not ready" and management goes "but muh Q2 fiscal numbers!" and incomplete things get put on the market and take the next 6 months to get fixed.

The display industry is such a weird beast where despite making extremely iterative products, it takes forever for a new display model to get to stores and then arrives in a very half-baked state when last year's model that was 90% the same was perfectly fine.
 

madpistol

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Well if a manufacturer says its product will do something then yes the consumer has every right to expect it to work out of the box as advertised. I get the whole bug problem issue but I also expect there to be no bugs to begin with. I dont care what the product is. This is why we have such buggy things in our lives because manufacturers think we consumers wont notice or care when we do. I will give LG kudos for with sticking their product, caring about their consumer and fixing it however. I'm glad they have done that. Their commitment is commendable but it shouldn't leave the factory fully untested and working as advertised. Just my two cents.
How do you expect them to do this? As someone who works in the tech industry, I try my best when I deploy a change to our environment to make sure it is free of bugs and going to work as designed. 95% of the time it does, but we also have to support that change as time goes on as the environment around it may change as well, and we cannot hope to account for all of the changes that happen after this deployment. I also cannot hope to test every single scenario that my item may be subjected to, as I am time constrained in most cases. So I do my best, make sure the item is well tested and working as designed, and then I deploy it.

A smart TV is 1000x more complex than a piece of code, especially when that TV supports things that have never been supported before in that capacity... it also supported something that was unreleased at the time (HDMI 2.1 devices), so the testing pool for this was severely limited. How could LG hope to predict the future on this?

I understand consumer frustration, but most consumers don't understand the extremely complex environment the these manufacturers work in. To expect a product like a Smart TV to release without bugs is to either expect it to release in a very simplified state using tech that has been proven from years past, or to, simply put, expect the impossible.
 

Lateralus

More [H]uman than Human
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How do you expect them to do this? As someone who works in the tech industry, I try my best when I deploy a change to our environment to make sure it is free of bugs and going to work as designed. 95% of the time it does, but we also have to support that change as time goes on as the environment around it may change as well, and we cannot hope to account for all of the changes that happen after this deployment. I also cannot hope to test every single scenario that my item may be subjected to, as I am time constrained in most cases. So I do my best, make sure the item is well tested and working as designed, and then I deploy it.

A smart TV is 1000x more complex than a piece of code, especially when that TV supports things that have never been supported before in that capacity... it also supported something that was unreleased at the time (HDMI 2.1 devices), so the testing pool for this was severely limited. How could LG hope to predict the future on this?

I understand consumer frustration, but most consumers don't understand the extremely complex environment the these manufacturers work in. To expect a product like a Smart TV to release without bugs is to either expect it to release in a very simplified state using tech that has been proven from years past, or to, simply put, expect the impossible.
And as has been pointed out, HDMI 2.1 was, until now, uncharted territory for display and GPU manufacturers. I'm not surprised at all that everything wasn't working 100% out of the box and without some teething issues. Tech is almost always that way. LG had the HDMI 2.0 part figured out already, so it was only a matter of time. I applaud them for their dedication to delivering the CX as advertised (even if not out of the box) rather than throwing their hands up and saying "Sorry folks, we're new to this HDMI 2.1 thing, we'll try again next year so be sure to buy the C11 to get what you were expecting!"
 

madpistol

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And as has been pointed out, HDMI 2.1 was, until now, uncharted territory for display and GPU manufacturers. I'm not surprised at all that everything wasn't working 100% out of the box and without some teething issues. Tech is almost always that way. LG had the HDMI 2.0 part figured out already, so it was only a matter of time. I applaud them for their dedication to delivering the CX as advertised (even if not out of the box) rather than throwing their hands up and saying "Sorry folks, we're new to this HDMI 2.1 thing, we'll try again next year so be sure to buy the C11 to get what you were expecting!"
Exactly. HDMI 2.0 worked flawlessly on my RTX 2070 Super when coupled with 1440P120 and GSYNC. HDMI 2.1 amped that up further, but it also changed the signaling, which is why you may need a new cable for HDMI 2.1 to work properly. LG Advertised 4K120 + GSYNC + HDR + 4:4:4 Chroma on both the LG C9 and CX, both of which launched before HDMI 2.1 devices were available... and as advertised, both the C9 and CX now work with HDMI 2.1 and its available features.

Having a company that is willing to fix unforeseen bugs after a customer has purchased a product is all I can really ask for. That's how a company earns repeat business.
 

MistaSparkul

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If you don't want to get burned by a company not fixing the bugs then....just don't buy the product until you know all the problems are fixed? Anyone who early adopts and then gets burned by unfulfilled/broken promises later well that's kinda your fault too IMO. That's the risk you take yourself. I bought my CX knowing that at worst I might only be able to get it working properly with 4:2:0 SDR.
 

madpistol

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If you don't want to get burned by a company not fixing the bugs then....just don't buy the product until you know all the problems are fixed? Anyone who early adopts and then gets burned by unfulfilled/broken promises later well that's kinda your fault too IMO. That's the risk you take yourself. I bought my CX knowing that at worst I might only be able to get it working properly with 4:2:0 SDR.
Same here. HDMI 2.0 worked flawlessly on my RTX 2070 Super, so I assumed HDMI 2.1 would work, knowing full well that nobody had a way to test it prior to HDMI 2.1 GPUs being released. If LG was unable to fix it, it would have really hurt my trust in the company moving forward. But they did fix it, and they did so somewhat quickly. They also fixed it for their C9 line, which was 1.5 years old at the time of HDMI 2.1 GPU release.

If that doesn't give you confidence in a company supporting their products, nothing will.
 

MrTX

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For anyone here who uses the Cable Matters USB3-to-Ethernet adapter AND LG SmartShare app:
For some reason, if I connect the TV through wifi or internal ethernet, the SmartShare app sees the LG CX as a Connected Player asap, but if I connect using the USB-to-Ethernet adapter, sometimes SmartShare will see the CX and sometimes it doesn't, which prevents me from streaming movies from PC to CX. Do you guys have this problem?

----------------

On another note, I tried Emby (thanks elvn for mentioning it). Gotta say, I'm liking it. It can direct play 4K HDR movies (HDR passthrough) without transcoding the video. It did struggle with some audio files (TrueHD which needed to transcode/convert on the fly and DTS XLL which it can't play at all). Though I can easily convert the audio to AC3 and repacked the file, so I'm fine with that. And embedded subtitle (PGS) seems to cause the HDR video to go into SDR mode, but external SRT sub plays fine, so that's an easy fix.

Also, I'm very impressed with the LG's TrueMotion. I tried Natural and Smooth and I gotta say, it's equal to or even better than SVP Pro, with less artifacts, and no CPU/GPU processing needed (which means no need for the fans to spin and no noise from them).
 
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hhkb

Limp Gawd
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I finally got an Asus VG289Q for doing office work on. It's a great panel! Sharp fonts, good colors, and the Asus stand/OSD are really great. I can highly recommend this if you're looking for a "day screen" while leaving your CX for gaming and content.
 

Jumpem

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I can't imagine the stress of using one of these as a monitor. I stress enough just about watching TV on mine. I pretty much hate it.
 

Lateralus

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I can't imagine the stress of using one of these as a monitor. I stress enough just about watching TV on mine. I pretty much hate it.
Oh my.

Been using mine for work + entertainment since release. Usually 6-8+ hours per day. No burn-in. No image retention. No stress.

Relax a bit. I had that same apprehension when I first got my B7 because it was my first OLED, but that soon went away. I used that display as a monitor for over 2.5 years with no ill effects. These are more resilient than you think.
 

Jumpem

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Oh my.

Been using mine for work + entertainment since release. Usually 6-8+ hours per day. No burn-in. No image retention. No stress.

Relax a bit. I had that same apprehension when I first got my B7 because it was my first OLED, but that soon went away. I used that display as a monitor for over 2.5 years with no ill effects. These are more resilient than you think.
I don't watch the local news anymore because they have a blue bar and logo. I don't watch national news when some current event is happening because the news stations all have bars. I don't watch documentaries from National Geographic or the Smithsonian channel anymore because they have yellow logos.

I went from having the TV on five or six hours a night and and all day on the weekends, to almost never watching it. I turn it on to watch a show or movie, and turn it right back off.

It has negatively changed my day to day life. I am about to just let it burn in and go back to an LCD. The much better viewing angles and slightly better blacks aren't worth it.
 

elvn

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If you were that worried about it you should have bought it from best buy with the 5vyr warranty, which is the only warranty afaik that has confirmed covering burn in. . That comes out to around $66 a year insurance over 5 years. If the model tv isn't available years down the line, they'd have to replace it with a newer comparable model.
 

Jumpem

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If you were that worried about it you should have bought it from best buy with the 5vyr warranty, which is the only warranty afaik that has confirmed covering burn in. . That comes out to around $66 a year insurance over 5 years. If the model tv isn't available years down the line, they'd have to replace it with a newer comparable model.
I did.
 

mirkendargen

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I don't watch the local news anymore because they have a blue bar and logo. I don't watch national news when some current event is happening because the news stations all have bars. I don't watch documentaries from National Geographic or the Smithsonian channel anymore because they have yellow logos.

I went from having the TV on five or six hours a night and and all day on the weekends, to almost never watching it. I turn it on to watch a show or movie, and turn it right back off.

It has negatively changed my day to day life. I am about to just let it burn in and go back to an LCD. The much better viewing angles and slightly better blacks aren't worth it.
Just breathe, it'll be ok buddy.

1613327158292.png
 

madpistol

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I don't watch the local news anymore because they have a blue bar and logo. I don't watch national news when some current event is happening because the news stations all have bars. I don't watch documentaries from National Geographic or the Smithsonian channel anymore because they have yellow logos.

I went from having the TV on five or six hours a night and and all day on the weekends, to almost never watching it. I turn it on to watch a show or movie, and turn it right back off.

It has negatively changed my day to day life. I am about to just let it burn in and go back to an LCD. The much better viewing angles and slightly better blacks aren't worth it.

I can't speak for the 7 or 8 series OLEDs, but my CX has been solid. Granted, I don't abuse it (HDR = Brightness 100, but most content is SDR = Brightness 0-30), but no image retention or burn-in.

Most content I watch is news as well, and so far, no logo burn-in. The CX does a great job of identifying logos and dimming them so that they don't abuse the TV as much.

If anyone has a higher "Power On Time", please feel free to chime. I have a feeling mine is super high compared to most users.

CX.jpg
 

elvn

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I haven't had mine that long. I waited until most of the issues were fixed in firmware updates before I decided to buy.

I pretty much only use the OLED for media and games, having side monitor(s) for desktop/app real-estate.

I do watch a lot of HDR movie content on it but that is dynamic. Morning news via OTA antenna from a HDHOMERUN to an app does have some static logos but there are commercials (way too many commercials) that change the screen where those logos are pretty regulalry and it's usually just a half hour news program if that (I usually exit when the sports section comes on).


I also play HDR games. If given the choice I'll choose HDR content so it won't be showing SDR material all of the time by a long shot. I didn't buy it to not use the full HDR. I just finished "Jedi: Fallen Order"in HDR on Jedi Master difficulty but I used an ini edit to remove the HUD completely (which also made the game harder), so that wasn't concerning HUD/log wise considering there was none.. Now I've started in on Nioh 2 which is also HDR and looks gorgeous. I set it's peak HDR brightness around 800nit in game but I could probably set it to 1000 and let the TV do static tone mapping like it does movies. I played a few sessions with the full HUD on and it has a lot of readouts on the HUD which is a big switch from how I was playing Jedi:fallen order. I think you could toggle the HUD visible/hidden using F3 in Nioh (1) though so I might try that out next time. Otherwise I'll just try to be wise about it and rely on the best buy warranty rather than be paranoid about it.

The fact that I can hit the mic button and tell it to "turn off the screen" without it going into full standby makes using the TV a lot more unfettered to me. That was a big relief. It doesn't drop my windows and app positions or anything., continues running apps as if it was on (including sounds), and it lights right back up in a fraction of a second so it's super convenient to do compared to turning the screen off and on or just leaving a paused or static running game on while I do something on the side or go afk.
 
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Ziran

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My C7 55 OLED has 13,300 hrs run time by now (I use it a lot). It was perfect up until ~8000hr mark. After that the refresher was not keeping up anymore and I started getting "shadows" which is basically burn in. It started on red first then green then blue and finally now even on white.

Also the central area is now less bright than the edges. This is most noticeable with red colors. This is because I used the central area more than edges (I have black background). I also noticed a few dead pixels that were not there when the panel was new.

At 13k hours the OLED is still useable. I am going to replace it with 2020 or 2021 model once I get a hold of hdmi 2.1 video card but it is not urgent.

So expect at least 8000 hours of perfect video from your LG OLED and twice that with some imperfections.

If you do the math using the panel every day for 8 hours will be about 3000 hours per year.
 

SH1

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My C7 55 OLED has 13,300 hrs run time by now (I use it a lot). It was perfect up until ~8000hr mark. After that the refresher was not keeping up anymore and I started getting "shadows" which is basically burn in. It started on red first then green then blue and finally now even on white.

Also the central area is now less bright than the edges. This is most noticeable with red colors. This is because I used the central area more than edges (I have black background). I also noticed a few dead pixels that were not there when the panel was new.

At 13k hours the OLED is still useable. I am going to replace it with 2020 or 2021 model once I get a hold of hdmi 2.1 video card but it is not urgent.

So expect at least 8000 hours of perfect video from your LG OLED and twice that with some imperfections.

If you do the math using the panel every day for 8 hours will be about 3000 hours per year.

Very interesting. Does that 8K count factor in a screen saver? How bright have you been running it?

In any case, that's still some mileage out of a screen, which though not cheap, is much less expensive than it was.
 

Monstieur

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My CX gets mild image retention after a few weeks if I use the Blank Screen screensaver rather than letting it power off. It clears up after powering it off.
 

MrTX

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My CX gets mild image retention after a few weeks if I use the Blank Screen screensaver rather than letting it power off. It clears up after powering it off.
You should turn off your TV every day, so it can do a soft pixel refresh (which it does after every 4 hours of continuous use).
 

kalston

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I can't speak for the 7 or 8 series OLEDs, but my CX has been solid. Granted, I don't abuse it (HDR = Brightness 100, but most content is SDR = Brightness 0-30), but no image retention or burn-in.

Most content I watch is news as well, and so far, no logo burn-in. The CX does a great job of identifying logos and dimming them so that they don't abuse the TV as much.

If anyone has a higher "Power On Time", please feel free to chime. I have a feeling mine is super high compared to most users.

View attachment 329332
I thought I might have a lot myself but quick maths say I got about half of what you got. Similarly low SDR brightness and due to COVID lockdowns I've played an old MMO with a static HUD (which can be considered somewhat "abusive") a LOT - probably 1k hours.
And yes the set still looks absolutely perfect.

I don't know how to see the runtime on the EU version of the set sadly :(

I don't give myself headaches over it but I'm not careless either, I just take the simple precautions that don't have any downsides for me and quickly become reflexes - blank screen when I walk away, low OLED light for SDR + dark room etc. Once in a while I might forget and the screen will "burn" a bit while I'm afk or something but who cares if it's only occasional. Minuscule impact in the long run.
 

Perscitus

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'New' firmware out on the Korean LG site... last few months, they are releasing these mid-month each month - like clockwork.

Oddly enough the build number is the same as previously. 03.21.16 but timestamped Feb-17th 2021 (Korean time).
 
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SD777

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If you were that worried about it you should have bought it from best buy with the 5vyr warranty, which is the only warranty afaik that has confirmed covering burn in. . That comes out to around $66 a year insurance over 5 years. If the model tv isn't available years down the line, they'd have to replace it with a newer comparable model.

That's why I got the Microcenter screen protection for 3 years, I rarely keep a TV longer than that anyway. My blood pressure still goes up sometimes though with the stupid ABL. I turned off ASBL, but the ABL still kicks on in very weird ways. Just browsing a webpage and if I scroll up or down the ABL kicks on if there is a portion of the webpage with lighter sections. I can sit there and go up and down and make the ABL go on and off at will, really really annoying. I'm also still getting dimming after time even though I fully turned ASBL off in the service menu (yep I turned off both TCP and GSR). My return period ended yesterday and I thought really hard about returning it, but the only viable alternative IMO would be a Q series Samsung and those have their own sets of issues.

Oh well, I've taken some precautions like enabling a screen saver and using solid black backgrounds/taskbar. But I'm not going to bother being very careful with it. If I get burn in then I'll warranty it and learn my lesson about using OLEDs as a PC monitor.
 

hhkb

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I cut my CX weekly hours by almost 80% now using a 4k LCD as my day monitor. I honestly wouldn't care if I wasn't WFH, but with WFH the hours were racking up really fast. Maybe it's dumb though, since I do have a 5 year burn in protection plan.
 
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