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iPhone Ad vs. iPhone Reality
- Thread starter HardOCP News
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Not liking it and not supporting it (by not watching it and stating what it is for what it is) does not mean I must move out into the forest and not have a normal life.
Personally, I think this is bullshit.
You can believe that, but you're just another person who doesn't care what they're shown.
If you're such a stick-up guy then you should vote with your wallet. Take it to its logical conclusion and you won't be spending your cash on anything. What you're saying is freshman level BS middlebrow philosophizing and a bunch of hot air. Who cares? Just realize that advertising is BS and move on, no big deal.
That said, if you are a college freshman then I guess your BS is understandable.
rat
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Quite often.
I remember their Dual G5 ad being banned in the UK (if you remember, people turned it on and got through back through the walls of their house because it was so "blazing fast"), but specifically it was because they were claiming it was the only 64 bit personal computer you could buy. AMD64's came out earlier that year and had been available for some time.
If you don't think Apple has ever blatantly lied about anything, well, then, I got a bridge to sell you.
If you're such a stick-up guy then you should vote with your wallet. Take it to its logical conclusion and you won't be spending your cash on anything. What you're saying is freshman level BS middlebrow philosophizing and a bunch of hot air. Who cares? Just realize that advertising is BS and move on, no big deal.
That said, if you are a college freshman then I guess your BS is understandable.
You should spend a day looking in the mirror. What I'm saying is not about being the perfect person but instead being aware of your faults and at least acknowledging they could be improved. Instead what you're doing is supporting your faults and acting as if they're valued and something to be proud of. I'm certainly not a perfect person and I regularly do things I wish I wouldn't but I actively work towards improving myself. Is such an action really to much to ask of someone? You seem to think so. This thinking process of just accepting wrongs is simply sad, I'm not even asking you to change them. I'm simply asking you to even admit they're there. So now you're on the offensive and desperately defending your position.
Bashing Apple is so popular because of this very situation. People who like their products defend the company, warriors to save the kingdom! Even after the company repeatedly partakes in numerous anti-consumer actions they can't do any wrong in these warriors of the light eyes. Just read these very forums and you'll see numerous companies being called out for poor products, but you'll see only one company bashed like Apple and it has more to do with the companies fans than anything.
MrGuvernment
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who said he believed it more so then just wanted to give people a reality check / comparison to further show how full of it Apple is.
I'm not saying not to criticize, I do it all the time myself. Hell, I've criticized the ridiculous "I'm a Mac" ads many times. You however are taking this very far into "omg internet is serious business" land.
I'm with Joe Average here, your pushing of this very elementary point is BS. Know what it is you're dealing, absolutely, with but for god's sake, relax. There are much bigger problems in the world than what you're talking about.
I'm not saying not to criticize, I do it all the time myself. Hell, I've criticized the ridiculous "I'm a Mac" ads many times. You however are taking this very far into "omg internet is serious business" land.
I'm with Joe Average here, your pushing of this very elementary point is BS. Know what it is you're dealing, absolutely, with but for god's sake, relax. There are much bigger problems in the world than what you're talking about.
And all those problems started out with people not bettering themselves but instead saying the other person was in the wrong. It's treating the symptom but not the disease. Typing these posts doesn't take any time for me nor is it stressful, I have no reason to relax because I already am.
Ok, I should let it go but this is FUD, plain and simple, about as ridiculous as unsubstantiated claims that Vista is a "complete failure". Apple keep tight control over their own products but since when have they had it out for their own consumers? They make excellent products for the consumer and the professional, its the only reason I buy from them in the first place (started off with Final Cut six years ago, went from there).
Anti-consumer actions, really? They fight against the RIAA and movie studios to keep media prices low, even at the expense of losing some of them like NBC/Universal. They build the most efficient user friendly interfaces out there, so much so that even Microsoft is still following in their footsteps (something that was immediately apparent the first time I fired up Vista and saw UI paradigms that I'd seen for years prior in older versions of OS X). This isn't partisanship or fanboyism, I simply use both on a daily basis and call it like it is. How exactly are they actively trying to screw their customers? Are you going to keep an even playing field and call out Microsoft's anti-trust practices from the 90s, ones that actively killed alternatives like OS/2? Cause I won't, what's done is done. Give me a break.
Goddammit, Bionic Commando: Reloaded needs to upload to XBLA already so I can do better things with my time.
Fine. My point is that all advertising is an exaggeration and always will be. I think it is a waste of energy to accept anything else. We all know that print and TV ads, at best, represent the spirit of the product. If they wanted a real time demo, well, that's a long ad. Maybe you're right and they needed something more than a disclaimer, maybe use hard edits or something, I dunno. The suggestion of a stopwatch seems silly.
If the fool that posted the video honestly expected a GPS to acquire a position in under a second, well, I don't know what to say to him. Like many other smart people have pointed out in this thread, it makes as much sense as complaining that the cereal doesn't snap/crackle/pop like it does on TV, the burger isn't as succulent or juicy looking, the car doesn't turn as quickly, the beer doesn't make hot chicks magically appear, and so on.
We agree to disagree.
To make my point even more clear, the "Mojave" ads for Windows Vista are some of the most intellectually dishonest advertising I have ever seen. Does that mean I think Vista is a bad product?
Hell no. I can't in good faith recommend that anyone run any version of Windows aside from Vista unless there is an obscure application that they absolutely need XP for. I still like the product, even though that ad (like almost every other ad out there) is some serious BS. I can look past it, so whatever.
Hell no. I can't in good faith recommend that anyone run any version of Windows aside from Vista unless there is an obscure application that they absolutely need XP for. I still like the product, even though that ad (like almost every other ad out there) is some serious BS. I can look past it, so whatever.
Almost all of these Apple bashing articles begin with people bashing Macs and then others disputing until eventually it is all discussed and the Mac people end it with sound arguments, analogies and logic.
I wonder if that is the goal all along... sustained page views...
I wonder if that is the goal all along... sustained page views...
What articles have you been reading?
Look, False advertising is false advertising. It's about time someone calls Apple out on this, they've been doing this for years.
PowerPC is better than Intel
Macs are the FUN computers and PCs are all about boring work
The iPhone isn't a total rip-off, really!
All Bullshit. Couple that with the smug pro-Apple elitist nonsensical plop-in-the-toilet arguments coming from Macusers about how they think that Macs are superior ... rgh!
Apple is stepping into the spotlight and thanks to the way they do business, they'll end up pissing enough people off to get shoved back into the darkness again.
That's just it, some people don't feel the need to have to "accept" or "deal with" the misleading nature and in some cases outright lies in ads. Why should we "accept" the bullshit just so your job is easier? I prefer the truth as do many people. Many people's lives would be easier if there was no such thing as misleading advertising.
I can tell you right now that a lot of people believe the phone should be as fast as it is shown to be in that ad. Why shouldn't they? Ads are supposed to be true. Ads are supposed to describe the product. This ad is not true and doesn't not describe the product based on the purpose of the ad. The sooner shit like this doesn't happen, the better off just about everyone will be. Well, except for the people who create bullshit advertising. They'll probably have to find new jobs.
That and more affluent areas are generally Democrat while poorer sections generally go Republican. Some of you people out there will say that level of education and income level are mutually exclusive, but I call those people crazy.
Full disclosure: I'm a registered Libertarian, screw both parties.
Uhm, wow. This gets the most uninformed post of the year for simply posting a complete lie. So you are telling me that the majority of the poor, which by all accounts from Democrats are disenfranchised minorities tend to vote REPUBLICAN? You must be one of those guys that looks at the South (the H is based in Texas) and really takes those articles off MSN as serious examples of who votes for Republicans. The entire platform for the Dems is that the Republicans are for the rich and the Democrats help the disenfranchised.
BACK to the Iphone. It is a typical Apple Product. You pay twice as much for essentialy the same features you get from a WM 6 phone. However, it is in the DSATA PLANS you must sign up for. Oh wait, the great Jobsmeister thought it would be wonderful to take a multimedia phone and not allow MMS's with it
You got to be kidding me! SO I cannot take a picture and MMS it immediately to my friends for instant gratification while using my said overpriced data plan? Hmmm...The problem Windows people have with Macs and Mac Users in general is their blanket acceptance of whatever Apple throws out there without a shred of evidence. They have been proven to have more security breaches now, they have as many or more recalls in light of the G84 G86 fiasco (How about 2500-3000 for that Macbook Pro that could fail now?), and yet they still seem like it is their right to charge an additional 50% markup simply to use their operating system. I bet MS wishes they could charge 50% over market and be able to make people only use hardware THEY certify in order to run their OS. BTW, how about that new "program" Stevie put on their iPhone (make no mistakes, in Apple's mind you may have it, but it is THEIR iPhone. You just liscence to use it) to kill programs they deem "malicious"? Seems pretty Orwellian to me. Yet, we have Mac Zealots on here proclaiming their greatness.
Listen, if you want a Mac, fine. However. call it what it is. You are saying to everyone you are willing to pay the 50% premium to use an operating system. In many cases it is also for the "shic" value. Again, it is a choice. DO NOT however, say it is the better value, they are somehow better made, or somehow are a better product than an equivalently priced PC. They are not, and Consumer Reports has the failure rates and customer satisfaction data to back it up. Cheers
Joe Average
Ad Blocker - Banned
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Yanno, I was sitting here a bit ago watching the women's gymnastics team event during the Olympics (I'm fucking PISSED at the coach for the American team, that cold bitch Karolyi - when Alicia Sacramone made some mistakes and came off the platform and NEEDED some support that cold bitch just put a hand on her shoulder and wouldn't even look her in the eye... GRRRRR... personal rant, sorry)... anyway during a commercial break, lo and behold...
An iPhone commercial.
A new one I'd never seen before.
One that made the god damned piece of shit look like the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Blaring out that "Twice as fast" "Twice as fast" bullshit once more.
Showing me activity on the screen of the iPhone that was so obviously being played back at like 4x the actual speed of an iPhone because I know idiots that own them and I have firsthand experience of using one because I needed some comic relief.
Showing me the NY Times web page, then a press on the touchscreen, and the next page loading in like, 1 second flat. There wasn't even a load time, it was just *POOF* there it was.
Showing me that yes I do know it's total bullshit, that I do know the only way a device could possibly load such a page so fast would be from the RAM cache which has absolutely nothing to do with the 3G capabilities which are slower than Wi-Fi by leaps and bounds anyway - the page couldn't load that fast on Wi-Fi max signal either. Hell, my Core 2 Quad at 3 GHz with DDR2 1066 can't load a damned web page that fast on a 15Mbps connection.
SHENANIGANS, I say. Sounds better than BULLSHIT and doesn't cause so many freaky stares, especially from Apple product owners.
That whole commercial from start to finish was... "Ok, bullshit... bullshit... that really is... oh man, it's not that... BULLSHIT... I CALL BULLSHIT... HELL I CALL SHENANIGANS!!!!"
'Nuff typed.
Here's truth in advertising:
"The new iPhone 3G. Twice as fast as shoving our marketing bullshit down your throat..."
An iPhone commercial.
A new one I'd never seen before.
One that made the god damned piece of shit look like the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Blaring out that "Twice as fast" "Twice as fast" bullshit once more.
Showing me activity on the screen of the iPhone that was so obviously being played back at like 4x the actual speed of an iPhone because I know idiots that own them and I have firsthand experience of using one because I needed some comic relief.
Showing me the NY Times web page, then a press on the touchscreen, and the next page loading in like, 1 second flat. There wasn't even a load time, it was just *POOF* there it was.
Showing me that yes I do know it's total bullshit, that I do know the only way a device could possibly load such a page so fast would be from the RAM cache which has absolutely nothing to do with the 3G capabilities which are slower than Wi-Fi by leaps and bounds anyway - the page couldn't load that fast on Wi-Fi max signal either. Hell, my Core 2 Quad at 3 GHz with DDR2 1066 can't load a damned web page that fast on a 15Mbps connection.
I CALL SHENANIGANS!!!!
SHENANIGANS, I say. Sounds better than BULLSHIT and doesn't cause so many freaky stares, especially from Apple product owners.
That whole commercial from start to finish was... "Ok, bullshit... bullshit... that really is... oh man, it's not that... BULLSHIT... I CALL BULLSHIT... HELL I CALL SHENANIGANS!!!!"
'Nuff typed.
Here's truth in advertising:
"The new iPhone 3G. Twice as fast as shoving our marketing bullshit down your throat..."
I still like my iPhone, when it comes to the mobile hardware I think their build is one of the best, (I was a die-hard nokia n-series person) I still hate how their commercials are targeted at the ignorant. If anything their commercials almost convinced me not to buy one. The last thing you want to be is 'that guy' who hangs around starbucks all day on his iMac waiting for people to ask him "are you a writer?"
I don't, cause it's true...
Don't take it personal, you are just the idiot that invested in them. The H doesn't bash Apple, they just laugh at their stupidity and mistakes which arise quite often.
No he just really likes debating on the internet. (key in retard-race gif)
Yea it's misleading advertising and borderline an all out lie. Apple does it all the time. Can we just agree to confirm this as just another one of Apple's deceptive marketing maneuvers?
Joe Average
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Yeah, we do agree, but it's boring to just agree... hence the discussions... on a discussion forum... about stuff we agree on and discuss... see how that works?
Why? Because most other ads show some kind of deception? Oh what, I don't get 10 babes in bikini's prancing around me when I open Miller Lite? Opening a pepsi bottle is going to drage Justin Timberlake from LA all the way to my house? Answering an ad telling me I can make $10,000 a month part time from home means I can retire in 3 years?
Yes, the load times shown on the screen are a horrible misrepresentation of how long it actually takes, but the whole "twice as fast" is talking about 3G vs. EDGE, not how fast every Mac basher can come out of the woods.
The stupid thing about all this is inorder to watch this video, I had to load it on my iphone because my work blocks access to it.
While my web browsing isn't T1 speeds, it is more than acceptable compared to my last POS phone that claimed to be able to surf the internt. My old phone surfed the internet as well as a retarded kid with 1 leg treads water.
While my web browsing isn't T1 speeds, it is more than acceptable compared to my last POS phone that claimed to be able to surf the internt. My old phone surfed the internet as well as a retarded kid with 1 leg treads water.
AthlonXP
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That seems to be badass, I am sending that to my buddy right now who is going to get an iphone. He could use that with his turboed civic.
well whatever. That wasn't my whole point. I was emphasizing on the definition of misleading and how Apple uses the definition.
skiddy
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I remember that. They also blatantly lied on benchmarks when comparing to Dell systems back in 2003 or 2004 I think. I remember they were running the benchmarks on low qualitly for the Apples and medium/high on the Dells. And the conclusion came to the apple being faster.... with PowerPC!
As for the 3g, I knew it was as 'slow' as shown in the video before I bought one. I got to play with a couple of friend's phones first hand to test the performance. The commercial is a crock of shit though. I know two people who thought it would be that fast and were disappointed.
More or less. I love the misconception that Mac's don't slow down over time and PC's need to be reformatted every other hour to stay fast. My 5+ year old Toshiba laptop boots faster than my G5 at work and crashes far less often. That being said, I love my first gen iPhone but it is one of the the buggiest products I've ever owned. Constant app crashes and terrible wifi & cellular signal. I don't know anybody who upgraded to the 3G who hasn't regretted it.Have you seen the Apple VS PC ads lately? Apple ads lie about speed and performance VS the PC ALL THE TIME. It is easier to fool Apple zealots as their brains are so much smaller and their wallets are so much fatter.
BTW, there is forum talk and videos showing it to be very accurate when set up properly. I'd try it out myself but a bug is preventing it from calibrating....gotta love those mac products that never crash
I don't recall seeing any commercials that say Macs are faster than PCs. The ones I've seen say that the Mac is easier to use, offers better integration between applications, and are less prone to viruses and malware.
In my decade of experience with both platforms, I would have to say those statements (concerning average computer users) are true. Note, a vast majority of us here are not average computer users.
From what I've seen the iPhone commercials simply state that the new 3G phone is faster than the old EDGE iPhone.
I do not own an iPhone (although I may be getting one soon because wearing an iPod and a cell phone at the same time sucks) and honestly as long as the phone has all the features it says it does, I would consider the advertising truthful enough.
I wish fanboys from both camps would just go back into their respective basements and stay there. Seriously, if you are making important decisions based on commercials, you deserve to be fooled.
In my decade of experience with both platforms, I would have to say those statements (concerning average computer users) are true. Note, a vast majority of us here are not average computer users.
From what I've seen the iPhone commercials simply state that the new 3G phone is faster than the old EDGE iPhone.
I do not own an iPhone (although I may be getting one soon because wearing an iPod and a cell phone at the same time sucks) and honestly as long as the phone has all the features it says it does, I would consider the advertising truthful enough.
I wish fanboys from both camps would just go back into their respective basements and stay there. Seriously, if you are making important decisions based on commercials, you deserve to be fooled.
Just because you haven't seen them doesn't mean they're not out there. So maybe you wanna come OUT of your basement and join the world once in awhile.
HardOCP News
[H] News
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Alright, you got me on that one. I cater to our 99.9% PC audience that laughs at funny stuff like this.
Yes, instead of taking out billion dollar "I'm a Mac" campaigns that say anything with they want without ever being taken to task for outright falsehoods and lies...I crack jokes when Apple shoots themselves in the foot.
Guilty.
We are bastards.
Thank you for for your continued patronage despite our obvious lack of character, integrity and moral values. We appreciate you sticking around for 5+ years even though we repeatedly offend you.
Next Apple joke in 3....2.....1
Yes, instead of taking out billion dollar "I'm a Mac" campaigns that say anything with they want without ever being taken to task for outright falsehoods and lies...I crack jokes when Apple shoots themselves in the foot.
Guilty.
We are bastards.
Thank you for for your continued patronage despite our obvious lack of character, integrity and moral values. We appreciate you sticking around for 5+ years even though we repeatedly offend you.
Next Apple joke in 3....2.....1
Ingonuts13
[H]ard|Gawd
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I knew it was not going to be that fast going into it and still bought it.
Just because you haven't seen some of the more shiesty Apple ads doesn't mean they don't exist. Apple's ads have been sketchy for almost as long as I can remember.
Case in point, the PowerPC/Pentium thing has been brought up several times already in this thread, and since you think that Apple's advertising isn't so bad, I'll tell you the entire story (someone please correct me/add anything I left out)...
Apple used PowerPC processors in their computers until 2006, when it switched to Intel. Not a funny story in itself, but when you factor in Apple's ad campaign slamming Intel's processors (there were a series of ads featuring a snail with the 'pentium' logo on its shell,) you begin to see the irony (and the true colors of Apple's advertising dept.)
Not bad enough? Big D mentioned what happened after Apple switched to Intel...
Whoops!
Nice 180 though, Apple.
Definitely a company I trust.
Joe Average
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Wanna know the fastest way to spot a company that lies about their own products?
They make ads that directly compare them to another product of a similar nature.
Macs vs PCs with the "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" is the perfect example. Apple spent a few hundred million coming up with the campaign (yes their practically in-house outsourced marketing and advertising firm handled it, but whatever) and all it does is constantly bash PCs in general with a shitload of focus on Windows, obviously.
Funny thing is that the #1 rule of advertising is you don't talk about, discuss, mention, name, or in any way shape or form compare your product against the competition by putting the competition in your own fucking advertising.
People are really fucking stupid (thank you, George Carlin, rest in peace and tell God to go fuck himself, thanks) and might even be dumb to some degree, but even they can see through that level of absolute horseshit.
The best products, the ones that matter, don't compare themselves to other products in the advertising. They don't have to because they don't have the massive inferiority complex that Steve Jobs creates with his fabled "Reality Distortion Field" which in reality is merely "DO WHAT I FUCKING WANT YOU TO DO OR YOU'RE FUCKING FIRED!" and not really much else. He's got such an ironclad grasp on Apple it's not even funny. The military and other organizations could learn a lot from him.
I know the idea behind the commercials for the new iPhone is to say "The iPhone 3G is twice as fast as the original iPhone when strictly talking about the connection speeds supported by the 3G network as opposed to the EDGE network."
But that's not what the ads portray, not at all. They purposely show you this incredibly sleek fast moving visual representation of what the iPhone could be like if you lived at 4x normal speed. Steve Jobs must be using that substance from that old episode of Star Trek: TOS where those people with the superhella fast metabolisms doped his coffee and sped him up...
Now, if that was me and I had that coffee and I saw that iPhone 3G ad on TV while doped and sped up, I'd almost... note.... almost believe it.
They make ads that directly compare them to another product of a similar nature.
Macs vs PCs with the "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" is the perfect example. Apple spent a few hundred million coming up with the campaign (yes their practically in-house outsourced marketing and advertising firm handled it, but whatever) and all it does is constantly bash PCs in general with a shitload of focus on Windows, obviously.
Funny thing is that the #1 rule of advertising is you don't talk about, discuss, mention, name, or in any way shape or form compare your product against the competition by putting the competition in your own fucking advertising.
People are really fucking stupid (thank you, George Carlin, rest in peace and tell God to go fuck himself, thanks) and might even be dumb to some degree, but even they can see through that level of absolute horseshit.
The best products, the ones that matter, don't compare themselves to other products in the advertising. They don't have to because they don't have the massive inferiority complex that Steve Jobs creates with his fabled "Reality Distortion Field" which in reality is merely "DO WHAT I FUCKING WANT YOU TO DO OR YOU'RE FUCKING FIRED!" and not really much else. He's got such an ironclad grasp on Apple it's not even funny. The military and other organizations could learn a lot from him.
I know the idea behind the commercials for the new iPhone is to say "The iPhone 3G is twice as fast as the original iPhone when strictly talking about the connection speeds supported by the 3G network as opposed to the EDGE network."
But that's not what the ads portray, not at all. They purposely show you this incredibly sleek fast moving visual representation of what the iPhone could be like if you lived at 4x normal speed. Steve Jobs must be using that substance from that old episode of Star Trek: TOS where those people with the superhella fast metabolisms doped his coffee and sped him up...
Now, if that was me and I had that coffee and I saw that iPhone 3G ad on TV while doped and sped up, I'd almost... note.... almost believe it.
ah you don't remember the ads saying Macs run Windows faster than PCs do? or at least the Macbook Pro anyway. all because of a review PC World (or PC Mag...can't remember which) did. its all funny. the Mac is nothing more than a froo froo PC that can run a diff OS. yet of course they still market it as something "different".
I don't remember an ad based on that review but I certainly remember the review itself. And yes, Vista screams on my Macbook Pro. But you know what the funny thing is?
OS X performance is much much faster on the same hardware. Standard operations like file copying and transfers, things like encoding, standard things like opening and closing applications, boot up/shut down/sleep/wake from sleep, all faster. And this is on top of having a more logical, cleaner, more streamlined GUI.
But whatever, I'm obviously suffering from RDF even though I use all of those platforms every single day and am just offering up my own opinion based on personal experience.
Now I thought we were debating how advertising was stupid and some of you sensitive types are taking it all way too seriously...
As another example, I think Vista is great and wouldn't recommend anyone use XP over it at this point (not unless their software was the rare case that only worked on XP), yet Microsoft's Mojave ads are some of the most intellectually dishonest advertising I've ever seen. I don't let the complete bullshit of those ads cloud my opinion of the product though.
I keep it separate. Some of you seem to have a real problem doing that.
That's the thing, I can't think of a single cell phone out there that touches it as far as speed goes. WM, Blackberry, Treo, Helio, I've owned or tried them all and they all fall behind in terms of both browsing speed, page rendering, and quality.
You better cram it though, you're obviously deluded and are defending your overpriced POS.
umm.... Did you not read my post? I own an iPhone and I'm happy with it.That's the thing, I can't think of a single cell phone out there that touches it as far as speed goes. WM, Blackberry, Treo, Helio, I've owned or tried them all and they all fall behind in terms of both browsing speed, page rendering, and quality.
You better cram it though, you're obviously deluded and are defending your overpriced POS.
albert6719
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You know, this commercial is kind of like McDonalds making a Big Mac commercial using a 50' Big Mac and then claiming it to be the next "new" evolution in hamburgers.
Apple simply claims in these ads that their new iPhone is faster yet it is CLEARLY not fast by any stretch of the imagination. This is what is known as FALSE ADVERTISING.
Apple simply claims in these ads that their new iPhone is faster yet it is CLEARLY not fast by any stretch of the imagination. This is what is known as FALSE ADVERTISING.
No see, Steve Jobs put on a live demonstration one time at this one place that everyone in the world witnessed at the same time, so you should obviously know the actual speed of the iPhone and ignore this demonstration in the commercial, because it's obviously not meant in any way whatsoever to be even remotely factual and/or representative of the actual iPhone currently being sold on the market.
*study based off of 137 people from Berkeley University
Seriously, polls told us Kerry was going to win by a landslide, rofl.
I wouldn't doubt if it was true though, colleges are one big lib institution where they breed and indoctrinate their own kind.
And if not for voting irregularity in certain sections of Ohio (all, shockingly, areas that tend to vote democratic) we could have had 2 elections in a row where the most votes didn't win....however, polls weren't picking the popular vote (unless you're referring to specific states).
Besides, the polls didn't show Kerry winning in a landslide. Electionprojection is had bush winning in a close victory 289-249 (it was slightly closer), and the owner bases his predictions on publicly available polls.
As for how people think, I think it has far more to do with the more educated you are, the more shades of gray you see.
w1retap
[H]F Junkie
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The more shades of gray one sees is the scary part..