Intel Core i9 Cascade Lake-X thread

newls1

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Can someone help me with this question regarding IPC on these cpus vs's the IPC on the 9900k.... Will these cpus be faster then the 9900k clock speed for clock speed? or no? hoping to build me a nice tinkering pc with either the 3950x or 10940 i9 cpu and having a hard time deciding.... Thank you
 

ole-m

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Can someone help me with this question regarding IPC on these cpus vs's the IPC on the 9900k.... Will these cpus be faster then the 9900k clock speed for clock speed? or no? hoping to build me a nice tinkering pc with either the 3950x or 10940 i9 cpu and having a hard time deciding.... Thank you
absolutely not.
unless you use AVX512 they will be slower than zen2, a 12 core zen2 will beat a higher clocked 14 core.

Only arguments in My book is.
X299 boards aren't that pricey.
quite a lot of pci-e lanes (3.0 though)
4 channel memory for memory capacity.
Avx512.

My arguments against:
Current X299 boards have all M2's through chipset (Not good...)
Inferior IPC.
Terrible Latency (Gaming suffers)
Very high power draw.
still too expensive if looking at cpu performance


My bottom line: the pro's must be real darn important to warrant a buy.


This is how a 8 core with Cascade improvements likely would far performance wise, they've specifically improved the Mesh for lower latency and improved game performance and somewhat IPC.
https://static.techspot.com/articles-info/1457/bench/FC.png

About the same as zen+ probably ?
they may have done minor improvements to get it slightly better
 
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German Muscle

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absolutely not.
unless you use AVX512 they will be slower than zen2, a 12 core zen2 will beat a higher clocked 14 core.

Only arguments in My book is.
X299 boards aren't that pricey.
quite a lot of pci-e lanes (3.0 though)
4 channel memory for memory capacity.
Avx512.

My arguments against:
Current X299 boards have all M2's through chipset (Not good...)
Inferior IPC.
Terrible Latency (Gaming suffers)
Very high power draw.
still too expensive if looking at cpu performance


My bottom line: the pro's must be real darn important to warrant a buy.


This is how a 8 core with Cascade improvements likely would far performance wise, they've specifically improved the Mesh for lower latency and improved game performance and somewhat IPC.
https://static.techspot.com/articles-info/1457/bench/FC.png

About the same as zen+ probably ?
they may have done minor improvements to get it slightly better
Your all boards having m.2 through pch is false.

It's also kind of a big stretch to say these chips which are a new architecture is the same performance as skylake x. Let's wait until the reviews and see what it really is instead of assuming.
 

thecold

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5ghz all 18 cores?
Not likely,

Note* this is not directly comparable, I don't have 4.2.2 to compare these. However, it's likely at stock or a higher power budget with better ram.

This is my 7940x @ 4.3 on air with 3200 1T c14 ram
 

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ole-m

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Your all boards having m.2 through pch is false.

It's also kind of a big stretch to say these chips which are a new architecture is the same performance as skylake x. Let's wait until the reviews and see what it really is instead of assuming.
Broadly speaking M2 is generally through chipset and at minimum 2 first are through chipset for first gen x299 due to Kabylake-X if they have 3 they may use cpu lanes and be non KBL-X exclusive.
The m2's through chipset is a X299 specification

On second gen motherboards we might assume this is not the case.

Second, new architecture argument, it's not "assumptions" and we know how they're performing in servers hence we know generally what improvements we see on desktop.
8180 vs 8280, 200 mhz difference + some mesh frequency that's about it.

https://www.servethehome.com/intel-xeon-platinum-8280-benchmarks-and-review/2/


Edit:
Cpu architecture changes:
https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/microarchitectures/cascade_lake

AVX512 VNNI

So it's for almost in every way the same architecture just refreshed.
 
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German Muscle

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Broadly speaking M2 is generally through chipset and at minimum 2 first are through chipset for first gen x299 due to Kabylake-X if they have 3 they may use cpu lanes and be non KBL-X exclusive.
The m2's through chipset is a X299 specification

On second gen motherboards we might assume this is not the case.

Second, new architecture argument, it's not "assumptions" and we know how they're performing in servers hence we know generally what improvements we see on desktop.
8180 vs 8280, 200 mhz difference + some mesh frequency that's about it.

https://www.servethehome.com/intel-xeon-platinum-8280-benchmarks-and-review/2/


Edit:
Cpu architecture changes:
https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/microarchitectures/cascade_lake

AVX512 VNNI

So it's for almost in every way the same architecture just refreshed.
Went from saying "All" to "broadly speaking" and "generally". What all X299 boards/chips do you have experience with working with btw? Im also curious as to what you mean by the terrible latency that you spoke of?

Sadly you are assuming. I prefer real world numbers rather then assuming everything is the same and that its just a refresh.
 

oleNBR

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Went from saying "All" to "broadly speaking" and "generally". What all X299 boards/chips do you have experience with working with btw? Im also curious as to what you mean by the terrible latency that you spoke of?

Sadly you are assuming. I prefer real world numbers rather then assuming everything is the same and that its just a refresh.
there might be even mesh changes, it's what im hoping for. but we all know intel cut prices by 50% and will do the bare minimum to reduce further cost. was hoping this 14nm+++ will set us a higher mesh frequency around 3600mhz minimum to maybe 4ghz.
 
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Almost ready to release pcie 6.0 with network error checking PAM. Dont get why were still on pcie 3.0 still.
 

mikeo

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Can you put together at least one sentence when when posting such a long video?

It's basically clickbait with Cascade Lake in the title as it is simply an overview of a refreshed x299 board. Fun!
Yeah, posted it as I was watching it, usually his videos have more details and less clickbait, but seems he has also succumbed to the youtube clickbait money, sorry. Only interesting part was the vertical M2 having better cooling.
 

German Muscle

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He analyzed the VRM and showed it to up to par to handle the chips.

Being the conversation in here i thought it was interesting he showed the layout map and that both m.2 go to CPU and not through PCH.
 
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thecold

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I've read this article, but I actually haven't see any motherboards that remove support for kaby lake-x. I've gone through 6 of the low budget boards (that support both). Some boards never had support for Kaby, but that's a different situation altogether.

Cascade lake-x support was added almost a month ago for some manufacturer's. It could just be really poor documentation, but idk. I'd have to borrow my old 7740x to test.
 

Dan_D

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I have. The ASUS X299 Prime doesn't support it. I would know, I have both a Kaby Lake X CPU and that very board. They do not work together.
 

thecold

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I have. The ASUS X299 Prime doesn't support it. I would know, I have both a Kaby Lake X CPU and that very board. They do not work together.
I believe it, it's not like the warning didn't exist for nothing. I just don't have a 7740x to test them with. Anyways, which model of prime? *it could be all of them, they just do a poor job of warning people*
 

Dan_D

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I believe it, it's not like the warning didn't exist for nothing. I just don't have a 7740x to test them with. Anyways, which model of prime? *it could be all of them, they just do a poor job of warning people*
When I went to review that board awhile back, the Core i7 7740X was the only LGA2066 CPU I had on hand and it didn't work. I checked with ASUS and sure enough, it wasn't supported. So I had to borrow a CPU from Kyle to do the article.
 

thecold

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When I went to review that board awhile back, the Core i7 7740X was the only LGA2066 CPU I had on hand and it didn't work. I checked with ASUS and sure enough, it wasn't supported. So I had to borrow a CPU from Kyle to do the article.

Some of the newer boards that replaced the base models never supported kaby lake x. For those that don't know (or remember) some of the really low end boards don't support skylake x for that matter (weirdest boards in existence, literally the only real budget x299 boards).


An example of such a board that doesn't support kaby is the prime x299-a2, this only supports skylake-x and probably now cascade lake-x.


The original prime-a did support kaby.


I'm looking to see if boards like the prime-a still support them. This list has no warning about updating to the cascade lake firmware, at least I didn't see any warnings. They still show support for kaby lake x. I'm not really looking for boards that never supported kaby.

MSI x299 raider,MSI x299 sli plus, Gigabyte x299 ud4, Gigabyte Ultra gaming, Asrock Extreme 4, Asus PRIME X299-A


I won't be able to get my hands on the 7740x till December, so I won't be able to test my MSI boards. Why do I care? It's more of a hobby thing.
 

D-EJ915

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Only board I have without KBLX support is Rampage VI Extreme; the Apex, OC Formula, Dark and MEG Creation all support it. Kinda fun to play with if you have one.

Waiting over here for 10 series to come out and also for Intel to send me check they said they are sending for my bad CPU, I guess they have none in their RMA bin.

For NVMe drive being PCH or CPU it really depends on the board, some are one or the other some have both and some you can select which lanes they use in bios.
 

Dan_D

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I won't be able to get my hands on the 7740x till December, so I won't be able to test my MSI boards. Why do I care? It's more of a hobby thing.
Why would you want one? It's literally the dumbest processor Intel ever released for its HEDT platform. It defeats the entire purpose of going to an HEDT motherboard by crippling the board's extra features. The only thing it buys you is a whopping 100-200MHz of overclocking headroom over the standard mainstream equivalent CPU.
 

thecold

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Why would you want one? It's literally the dumbest processor Intel ever released for its HEDT platform. It defeats the entire purpose of going to an HEDT motherboard by crippling the board's extra features. The only thing it buys you is a whopping 100-200MHz of overclocking headroom over the standard mainstream equivalent CPU.
When I originally purchased it, it was used cheap. I never regretted purchasing it. lol
 

DKS

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I have. The ASUS X299 Prime doesn't support it. I would know, I have both a Kaby Lake X CPU and that very board. They do not work together.
The ASUS TUF X299 Mark 2 had a new bios released last weekend (2002) which "Add support for Intel® Core™ X-Series 10000 Processor Family" . It also does not kill the Kaby Lake-X 7740X processer either. I have both with the new bios. Everything is just fine.

https://www.asus.com/ca-en/Motherboards/TUF-X299-MARK-2/HelpDesk_Download/
 

Nightfire

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Although not Cascade Lake-X, this review of the 9990xe should give clues on the higher clocked CCL-x performance:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14980/the-intel-core-i9-9990xe-review

Overall, there seems to be a regression in performance. The 9990xe loses to the 7940xe in a few cases despite much higher clocks.

The 14 core 9990xe should be compared to the 12 core 3900x. If the highly overclocked 14 core intel part can't beat the stock 12 core AMD part, it's most likely that a highly overclocked 18 core intel part will not beat a stock 16 core (3950x) AMD part.
 

Jandor

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well, pretty confirmed the 3950x ill be getting my hard earned monies
Take care there's big leaks on new unannounced 10nm Intel line to start deliveries at the beginning of 2020. The leaks are nearly official from Intel Canada asking their clients to wait...
Intel has been converting all his factories and everything is now on schedule as it was supposed to be. And Ice Lake core is much faster on Desktop than Zen 2. Better IPC, better speed, lower consumption. Because of this, such a 12 core Intel CPU will obliterate a 16 core 3950X.
 

Mega6

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Take care there's big leaks on new unannounced 10nm Intel line to start deliveries at the beginning of 2020. The leaks are nearly official from Intel Canada asking their clients to wait...
Intel has been converting all his factories and everything is now on schedule as it was supposed to be. And Ice Lake core is much faster on Desktop than Zen 2. Better IPC, better speed, lower consumption. Because of this, such a 12 core Intel CPU will obliterate a 16 core 3950X.
I can't wait!
 

Nightfire

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Ice Lake clocks have not looked promising in the mobile market compared to Skylake.
 

jeremyshaw

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Ice Lake clocks have not looked promising in the mobile market compared to Skylake.
IMO, Skylake mobile wasn't a promising clocker, either. Being better than Broadwell isn't much of an achievement, considering its regression from Ivy Bridge, even if some of that was the "over promise" of the 15W U series vs the 35W M SKUs. Took until Kaby Lake R to really push it beyond what Ivy Bridge "M" was already capable of.
 

Nightfire

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With all of the attention on the 10980xe, I was curious to see if there was any benchmarks from the other cpus in the Cascade Lake family.

I found this one but I question the legitamncy:

For the most part, Cascade Lake is targeting the R9 or 'Baby TR' twins. AMD TR should really be compared to Workstation Xeon.

Using their CB15 scores:
Stock 10900x: 2358
Stock 7900x: 2446
Stock 3900x: 3114
Stock 10940x: 3117

Interesting that the 10900x lags behind the 7900x. This has been seen by other reviewers and possibly due to hardware fixes.

Overclocking maxed out at 4.9ghz which was a bit lower than I expected.

O/C 10900x: 2683
O/C 3900x: 3432
O/C 10940x: 3736

The 14 core Intel was able to separate itself from the 12 core AMD part after both were overclocked, though it still fell far short of even the stock 3950x.
 

German Muscle

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at this point im mostly interested in clocks and OCing but i think im going to have to wait for a few real overclockers to get their hands on them. Regardless i think im going to bump up from a 10 to 18 core. Just need to find out which of the 3 chips i want.
 

Nightfire

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Again we see performance degradation with some of the new Intel cpus compared to older models such as the 9920x. Older AMD TR parts are looking better than ever as the 2920x manages to match the 10920x in a few benchmarks.
Screenshot_20191126-124034_YouTube.jpg

I would say the 10920x and 10900x are in the worst spot as the 3900x seems to beat them easily in most tests. The 10940x edges out the 3900x but it is really no match for the 3950x even if you are willing to run a crazy overclock 24/7.

Being a mesh setup, even gaming does not justify these parts over the baby TR lineup:
Screenshot_20191126-124338_YouTube.jpg
 

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