id Software's Official DOOM3 Benchmarks

TyP3-R said:
I honestly think that HL2 is more anticipated than D3.
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Considering that neither of the games are out, the anticipation of either game is based solely on previous tittles.

Now, Doom is old. A lot of people who were doom fans, are now people with full time jobs who do not have time to argue with some kid on a forum.

While halflife is still somewhat fresh. A lot of newer generation kids grew up on half life and CS. So the ammount of "active" HL internet forum fans is remarkably vast.

Me though, I absolutelly loved doom. As a kid, I spent days at my dad's office playing doom lol. Then I HATED HalfLife. Not because it was a horrible game, but because these retards bought halflife, and didn't buy SystemShock2 which IMO killed HL in every way. But then I loved CS. I spent years plating CS.

So am I biased towards Doom or HL? Probably, Doom is more SyestemShockish lol, so I will probably enjoy it more, playing it at night, duking it out with the demons.

But no way in hell am I gonna post on the internet which on is BETTER prior to playing the damn game.
 
TyP3-R said:
Yes they used the Havok system and then they completely modified it to make it perfect. Its like if you wanted to have a fast car, no reason to invent your own car, you use what is tried and true and then go from there. There is no reason to reinvent the wheel.

Throw a mattress in the water and watch it bend and float half-way to the top. Throw a heavy barrel in the water and watch it sink to the bottom, while a lighter one bounces up and down halfway through the surface of the water as it's thrown in, eventually settling at the top. Amazing AI comrades who have top-notch AI (Doom 3 has no AI comrades). Drivable vehicles, such as a buggy-type car. Fully-featured facial expressions, from mouths, to cheeks, to lips, to eyelids and eyebrows, to eyes themselves, to the forehead to the chin, to the tongue, to the teeth, to the jaw, the nose, and every single viewable part of the face... simple amazing; has to be seen to be believed. There's just so much to Half-Life 2 that it will have to be played to be believed.

So overall, Half-Life 2 is, in my opinion, the better game on so many levels.
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Physics of half life 2 is a not that great, Doom 3 if ya saw some of the preview movies of its gameplay has the same things, breakable polys, ragdoll, etc. Even Far Cry had em too. The facial expressin system of Half Life 2 is amazing, but thats now something easily incorporatable. Its an off shoot of the skeletal system with premade word attenuations. There are alot of real time plugin systems for this now.

These are two different games both games will be equally spectacular in thier own right.

Both games better be damn good took em long enough to get them done! :D
 
TyP3-R said:
Thats just ignorant. We are talking about HL2 not the fact that Half Life is a modified Quake 2 engine.
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HL1/CS was based majorly on Quake1. There were a couple of lines of code from Q2, but it was mainly quake1,

I like how you say that HL2 now has the "Perfect" physics engine, without any room for improvement. Then you compare it to a car hehe. Judging by your name, your car probably requires a lot of stickers to go fast. Also downforce is probably your best friend too, so an air runway sized spoiler in on your mad Typ3R yo, is needed. The backward E makes it twice as fast too;p

Seriously, why not just say you are really looking forward to HL2, and wait for the games to come out. Then make judgements?

Edit: Gah, I should have spent more time learning how to type, as a kid and less time playing Doom ;p
 
Preach it Brother t10! :D
I remember stay up late at night playing Doom and SS, HL I could give a rats ass about.

However this is a thread about D3 Benchmarks so I am goin to leave it at this. I am sure most of you D3 diehards havent seen the HL2 demos put out at E3 2003 and 2004. Watch those then you can make a real decision.
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If this was just about the D3 benchmarks then what the hell was your diatribe about the HL2 physics all about? :rolleyes:
And yes those videos were ill but the game isn't out yet so it doesn't matter. I was actually sort of pissed that they have been showing it off so damn much - could have been time spent actually working on the game.
 
t10 said:
HL1/CS was based majorly on Quake1. There were a couple of lines of code from Q2, but it was mainly quake1,

I like how you say that HL2 now has the "Perfect" physics engine, without any room for improvement. Then you compare it to a car hehe. Judging by your name, your car probably requires a lot of stickers to go fast. Also downforce is probably your best friend too, so an air runway sized spoiler in on your mad Typ3R yo, is needed. The backward E makes it twice as fast too;p

Seriously, why not just say you are really looking forward to HL2, and wait for the games to come out. Then make judgements?

Edit: Gah, I should have spent more time learning how to type, as a kid and less time playing Doom ;p
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OUCH :eek: thats gotta hurt hehe
 
plus isn't doom 3 supposed to have seperate damage thresholds(right word?) for certain monsters?(im finding this hard to explain ;)).

ok i'll make a hypothetical stuation.

say a zombie crashes through a door and and starts walking towards you, if you shoot both of its legs off with a shotgun, it will still crawl towards you until it has been shot in the head.

i may be wrong but IIRC i read it in a mag awhile back on a doom 3 article.

well if that is right. that would make one amazing experience because you could go round a corner after thinking you killed a zombie and go fight off some more finding your health going down because the zombie was attacking you from behind or something.

...i need to get out more :(
 
I remember something similar happening in the Half-Life 2 videos. Remember the headcrab zombie losing his legs and coming for you?
 
Yeah also they don't have a "damage zone" around them so you have to actually aim for the thing.
 
Jonsey said:
I remember something similar happening in the Half-Life 2 videos. Remember the headcrab zombie losing his legs and coming for you?
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ahh yes however IIRC that was actually scripted. (you set on a helicopter blade or something and it cuts its legs off)
 
tornadotsunamilife said:
ahh yes however IIRC that was actually scripted. (you set on a helicopter blade or something and it cuts its legs off)
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I think I remember that.

Both games are going to be freaking awesome, all I know is that I'll be playing D3 long before I think of HL2...maybe I'll take my "mad skills" out on the little kids when CS:Source comes out. :D
 
CrimandEvil said:
I think I remember that.
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it was a video shown at E3 2003, however with the leak etc. people found out everything shown was scripted :( although they kept saying how nothing would be scripted in-game :D
 
Okay then, here it is. All of the HL2 pushin' guys are not allowed to ever purchase and play Doom3, and vice versa. Nobody had better catch a Doom3 person playing HalfLife 2 at all or else everything you are posting about how much better it is than the other game makes your comments completely null and void. Yep, sorry it has to be that way. You could have just shut yer mouth and enjoyed both games and then later decided eventually (a year later) which had a bigger impact on the market, which had the better technology, etc. But its too late now, you've all drawn your lines in the sand. You can't play one and then play the other and then be like "Hey, I guess this one was better. Boy I feel like a complete moron now. Good thing nobody I harassed in the HardForums will ever know, teehee!" And those of you that have Nvidia and AIT cards I guess you can never buy the competitors card for the rest of your life, because that would then make you a hypocrite. Damnit, you have fought too hard for no reason to be proven wrong when the time comes to actually do the fighting, which even then is dumb because you win either way. Wait, what was my point again? What was yours?
 
OldPueblo said:
Okay then, here it is. All of the HL2 pushin' guys are not allowed to ever purchase and play Doom3, and vice versa. Nobody had better catch a Doom3 person playing HalfLife 2 at all or else everything you are posting about how much better it is than the other game makes your comments completely null and void. Yep, sorry it has to be that way. You could have just shut yer mouth and enjoyed both games and then later decided eventually (a year later) which had a bigger impact on the market, which had the better technology, etc. But its too late now, you've all drawn your lines in the sand. You can't play one and then play the other and then be like "Hey, I guess this one was better. Boy I feel like a complete moron now. Good thing nobody I harassed in the HardForums will ever know, teehee!" And those of you that have Nvidia and AIT cards I guess you can never buy the competitors card for the rest of your life, because that would then make you a hypocrite. Damnit, you have fought too hard for no reason to be proven wrong when the time comes to actually do the fighting, which even then is dumb because you win either way. Wait, what was my point again? What was yours?
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well thank god i was only mentioning a few features and wasn't basing my views of screenshot/videos/leaked alpha's
 
t10 said:
Now, Doom is old. A lot of people who were doom fans, are now people with full time jobs who do not have time to argue with some kid on a forum.
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It sucks doesn't it :mad:

t10 said:
I like how you say that HL2 now has the "Perfect" physics engine, without any room for improvement. Then you compare it to a car hehe. Judging by your name, your car probably requires a lot of stickers to go fast. Also downforce is probably your best friend too, so an air runway sized spoiler in on your mad Typ3R yo, is needed. The backward E makes it twice as fast too;p
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Haha...I was laughing when I read that. :D
 
I'd actually like to see what the lowest framerate I can get is. Like if I put it on a minimum required specs machine and see how it performs. Stupid I know, but without the game in hand, all I have is imagination and speculation.
 
:cool: Ok, well, first off, congrats to [H]ardocp for getting the exclusive tests, great job guys. Secondly, well as you can probably tell I just signed up to the forums, I was getting ticked at a couple comments and I just had to reply , been following this thread since it popped up. Now I know some of what I'm going to say has already been said, but I won't be the only one reiterating some points, and I guess it's pretty much inevitable when a post has 60 pages of replies.
I'll start with the ATI vs Nvidia debate, yes the horse has been flogged enough, but not many people seemed to fall on my side so chalk up one more for the moderates heh. Brand loyalty is going to get you burned, that's all there is to it. Back in the geforce3 days, ATI simply wasn't up to par, mainly buggy drivers. Then came the geforce4, ATI was still lurking in the background, offering somewhat competitive solutions, but Nvidia still won out, then ATI pulled out the R300 core and had a real success on their hands. The FX series was a catastrophe, the Radeons simply dominated in performance.
I had an ASUS v8420 geforce4 ti4200 oc'ed like heck, but when i upgraded 2-3 months ago, ATI simply had the best generation of cards, so I opted for a 9800pro, soon to be modded into a 9800XT. Then the 6800 series hit, and brought a huge performance jump, I just have to agree with empty, this gen has had the widest performance gap of any yet. As it stands, the 6800 is quite simply holding all the cards. But we can't forget that the x800's are still using a r300 series core. whereas the 6800 is a completey new one, that speaks to the credit of ATI's engineers, I for one am looking forward to their next gen chips to see if they can do it again or if the r300 was ATI's one trick pony. Also, competition is always good, they're already jacking up card prices to 600bucks, I shudder to imagine what it would be if only ATI or Nvidia ran the market.
However, ATI has always had driver issues, and I mean always. Their OpenGL and Linux support has never been more then grudging, before which it was nonexistent. Before, buggy drivers meant constant ctd's, now it's been toned down to artefacts. The issues with the shadows in Thief 3 and the 4.5's, Call of Duty initially refusing to even start, and worst of all, splinter cell: pandora tomorrow. Every driver release It's been a constant check to see if everything is finally working right. 4.4's were fine, 4.5's had horrendous shadowing, 4.6's improved shadowing, but stopped rendering the transparent glass in mp levels such as cinema, 4.7's fixed the glass, but now the spies can see the merc flashlight through walls. Ok, admittedly this feature can be pretty darn handy ;) , but it's not how the drivers or game are supposed to work.
Even so, new driver releases end up fixing issues, and whatever new ones are fixed in the next, and so on, the performance of a 9800pro vs say an fx5900 is still well worth it. I'm a poor college student so I can't afford to always have the best, (though I try danged hard :p ), but I won't be buying a 6800 or x800 till the next gen comes out, assuming that happens before next may or so, which is when I plan on going socket939 athlon64 and Geforce 6800GT on an sli board, initially I'll only have one 6800gt, but my next upgrade will add another one. The facts are simple as far as 6800 vs x800 dx9 performance is comparable, but the x800 gets it butt handed to it on a platter when it comes to OpenGL.
Also lets not forget, OpenGL 2 is slated to be released before the end of the year. Whereas the release date is questionable, it will happen sometime in the relatively near future. This, coupled with Microsoft's wanting to drop DX and focus exclusively on Longhorn, doesn't bode well for ATI unless they get their rear end in gear and pull out that revamped OpenGL driver. As soon as OpenGL 2 hits, DX will in all probability die. Microsoft doesn't want to continue it as mentioned earlier and OpenGL 2.0 will feature all the current DX capabilites with simpler programmability. And hey, Carmack's working with 3dLabs on OpenGL 2.0 and with Microsoft for Xbox development, so it looks like I'm making a fairly valid prediction. So ATI better get those OpenGL drivers finished.

Now to Doom3, finally, :D . Ok, this Half Life2 business has gone far enough.... Doom3 will own Half Life 2 at least in the North American market, now in Korea etc.. there are some pretty hard core counterstrike fans so things might turn out differently. I for one have never seen the appeal in CounterStrike, as anyone will admit is graphics are absolute, total crap, but it's advantage is it will run well on any storebought comp, no matter how crappy, so it obviously has a wider player base, most of which are the occasional gamer, the guys who essentially suck at it. Hey, back in the day Half Life and Counter-Strike were the multiplayer shooter game to have, I mean, it was a very good game, the simple fact is it's outdated, I would say the same thing to people who are still playng Doom or Doom2. All three games are classics, no denying that, but it's time to move on. I got everyone I knew who played Counter Strike into America's Army, and they've never looked back, America's Army has been the new counter strike for about 3 years now.
Half Life 2 will be a good game I've no doubt, but it has nothing on Doom3. The game doesn't even have true dynamic lighting for crying out loud, just look at the danged flashlight pics or the shadows over the train in the E3 video. It does a good job of rendering outdoor environments and some effects such as the giant spider thingies shockwave or whatever that was are pretty cool, no denying it, but the regular alien infested scientists look like crap, the game is shaping up to be S.T.A.L.K.E.R. with better physics. Very nice outdoor environments, though I think S.T.A.L.K.E.R. might actually do a better job with skies.
Now, the Half-Life 2 physics engine is a heavily modified Havok 2 engine and is pretty neat, no question there, but as was mentioned earlier, the Doom3 physics are very close if not the same other than being completely proprietary. They both have the ability to make any object in the game a physics object, in Half Life 2 this might be demonstrated by ripping off a car door with the grav gun and using it as a shield, in Doom3 it'll be demonstrated by huge monsters ripping through doors and walls. The reason we don't hear much about the Doom3 physics engine is because it was added fairly late in the development. From what I recall, Carmack initially didn't want ragdolling because of the cpu intensive possibilities of a model never actually going static, and he didn't see a way of forcing it to be static after certain conditions while maintaining a visibly believable transition, from active to static. Now, I forget who changed his mind, it might have been Duffy.... but whoever it was convinced Carmack that it would be useful, so Carmack simply sat down and wrote one.
One of my top funniest moments in Doom3 trivia was probably at E3, Valve had been making a big deal about its physics, demonstrating the tech demo with the room full of boxes, then some reporters ask id what they thought of the Half Life 2 physics. I'm pretty sure it was Hollenshead, thought it might have been Willits, opens up the editor, within two minutes create a room full of boxes, then knocks one down to start the chain reaction, and then adds a guy and throws him into the boxes, making them all tumble in joyous physic driven chaos. The unspoken sentiment was obviously " Physics, yeah, we got 'em too, nothing special about the Half Life 2 physics."
But as far a technical and graphical capabilities etc, Doom3 simply owns Half Life 2. I'm one of those people who got together with a bunch of friends and went over each piece of the new Doom3 footage from G4 frame by frame, and what we saw was simply amazing. The amount of detail is insane, from the lighting effects which are in a league of their own, such as a plasma bolt flying past a vengeful spirit (the flying heads) and illuminating it for a split second, to the part where the imp is crouched in the window and pulling back a fireball before letting it fly. The lighting has no comparison, well maybe the unreal3 engine, but I really haven't seen enough footage of that to make an informed decision. I sincerely recommend going though the video frame by frame. We learned quite a bit of interesting stuff, such as we have pretty much concluded that the rule is demons disintegrate with this really cool blade style effect starting from the point of impact, whereas as zombies and turned humans gib.
The most amazing thing we noticed was the thin zombie (the techie in yellow overalls) getting a shotgun blast point blank to the torso in a doorway, we freeze framed and suddenly realized, wait a sec, id modeled the guts, how the friggin heck did they do that? We're still debating, all we know is it isn't sprites or some 1/4 second long superimposed animation. To sum it up, the footage was in the end in the xbox footage, but I trust Carmack won't keep that out of the PC version. but if you go through frame by frame, the shotgun blast tears off the middle of the clothing, the rest drops to the ground, whereas the zombie now has no meat to hold it's guts in, you clearly see the rib cage sticking out around a mass of organs, the intestines have been modeled and are of a rotting yellowish white color, all the flesh has this stringy look to it and also, the zombies right hip has been bared to the bone (your right the zombies left) all the while the zombie is flying backwards, this within the space of a half second... Then there's the way in which everything involving fire causes a realistic heat shimmer, and the way the door ripples when the demon, we still have no clue which one it is, sticks his head though and lunges.

Also, the animation of the characters, the environments, everything, is the best I have ever seen, the only animation I have a gripe with is the Archvile, shaking it's head when it appears, it looks sub par for doom3, too mechanical compared to the rest I guess. Also, the quality of the sound, Id software keeps telling us that the sound will be amazing and I believe them, back when I was playing the leaked alpha the sound of the friggin door opening in frount of me sometimes caused me to start, and I have a 5.1 logitech z640 with an audigy2 zs, so I intend to fully appreciate the 6 channels of Doom3 fear. I'm a sound based player in all shooters, and especially splinter cell, sound is a great cue. I can't wait to experience doom3, I'm one of those guys showing up at the compusa midnight sale lol. Half life 2 will be a big title this year, no doubt about it, but the aim is completely different, it's a shooter, doom3 is a fear survival shooter. To tell the truth I'm looking forward to Vampire: Bloodlines, using the Half Life 2 engine, more so than Half Life2.
Those who say Half Life 2 will have more features and better physics than Doom3 are probably the ones who haven't even watched all the Doom3 footage. Does Half Life 2 have entirely dynamic realtime lighting? No. Does Half Life 2 have per-poly hit detection? No. Does Half Life 2 have some of the scariest creatures ever modeled? No. (ok that's a somewhat subjective question, but hey, I'm willing to vouch for it lol) Does Half Life 2 model skin tearing and ripping with on the fly calculated exit wounds depending one the bullet speed and the amount of flesh it passes through? No. Does the Half Life 2 engine support dismemberment (applied to everyone, monsers and players) and blood loss based damage, as well as having all creatures modeled in sections so that once the dismemberment is activated, it can be used in the original game without new models? No. Are there anywhere near the amount of mods announced in advance? No. Does the Half Life franchise have the legacy that accompanies Doom and Id Software? Again, some might argue, but I'd have to say : No. And most importantly, does Half Life 2 have John Carmack in its credits, or Nielson for that matter? No.

Well it's been a long post, but it's off my chest now, phew. In conclusion, neither Nvidia or ATI is better as a company, both take potshots at each other, both sometimes refuse to admit to doing something wrong, and for the current generation, until ATI pulls out some new drivers, the 6800 is better value then the x800 whereas as the 9000's kicked the fx's.
And, finally Doom3 is in a league of it's own, Half Life 2 will be a big release, but my personal opinion is that, in the US market at least, doom3 will outsell Half Life 2, and if it doesn't, it'll simply be due to people not having the computers capable of running it. I also predict that the Doom3 engine will be licensed more then the Half Life 2 engine, simply count the number of licences quake 3 had, then how many half-life had, it's simple math.
Well sorry to have bored you with this insanely long post, but I'm bored and I'm leaving to check if the doom 3 hardware guide is up hehe.
 
Amazing AI comrades who have top-notch AI (Doom 3 has no AI comrades).
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Gah, i post then check what's new, and I get sucked back in, That statement is false, you will meet up with other marines and a few scientists who will team up with you for a part of the way.

Fully-featured facial expressions, from mouths, to cheeks, to lips, to eyelids and eyebrows, to eyes themselves, to the forehead to the chin, to the tongue, to the teeth, to the jaw, the nose, and every single viewable part of the face... simple amazing; has to be seen to be believed
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Also in Doom3, have you even watched the friggin video?

Didnt know thank you. However this is a thread about D3 Benchmarks so I am goin to leave it at this. I am sure most of you D3 diehards havent seen the HL2 demos put out at E3 2003 and 2004. Watch those then you can make a real decision
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Yes, I have all those videos, i have all the doom3 ones and all the half life 2 ones, I still conclude doom is better, read my previous post.
 
well can't say i'm not looking forward to seeing RTCW2/Quake4 using the doom3 engine. but since the half lfie 2 engine is a heavily modified havok 2 engine (which has been licensed to about 100 games so far including tribes: vengeance). or has valve decided because ti is so heavily modified that it is now their own and called 'source'?
 
Why are doomed ati fanboys now debating about which game is better now D3 or HL2. It does not matter here and reality is that both games are very good and very anticipating. Like I said before ati fans are looking away from their weak hardware that they droped $500 on it and now looking at stupid things to say like HL is going to be better then doom3,PLEASEEE Shhhhhhhh... :eek:
 
Wow Suicide King I didn't even see most of that since I was too busy drooling :D but I'm going to have to go back and watch it again.
 
Well sorry to have bored you with this insanely long post
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Hey I read it (but then again ive been reading all 60 pages, more like skimming though), paragraphs are nice, you should use them =). Some interesting things were said about the doom engine, some of which I've never heard before and really hope are true.

/me wonders what everyone fights over after ati/nvidia and doom/hl2...
 
Lord of Shadows said:
Hey I read it (but then again ive been reading all 60 pages, more like skimming though), paragraphs are nice, you should use them =). Some interesting things were said about the doom engine, some of which I've never heard before and really hope are true.

/me wonders what everyone fights over after ati/nvidia and doom/hl2...
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it will probably then be STALKER or HalfLife 2 SM3.0 performance and eye-candy *sigh* the world we live in
 
Yes, I have all those videos, i have all the doom3 ones and all the half life 2 ones, I still conclude doom is better, read my previous post.[/QUOTE]


then tell my why wmp9 wont run the hi res trailers getting error downloading codecs..

what friggin codec does it need?
 
Lord of Shadows said:
/me wonders what everyone fights over after ati/nvidia and doom/hl2...
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Maybe who's pen** is bigger, thats pretty much exactly what this is (ATI users feeling oh-so-small now).
 
I wonder how long it will be before some on tries running DooM 3 on one of these cards to see how it looks at its highest visual quality.

Its a 640MB card, look under specifications on the left side.
 
Wow and people knock NV for the size of their cards..... :eek:
I think that thing could kill a small animal if it feel off of a table or something.
 
Well, it is made for profesional CAD work, not so much for gaming, but it would still work, and is set to support OpenGL 2.0 when ratified. 3DLabs also has another card that has 512 MB, and is AGP8X.
 
Heh, yeah I intend to edit it with paragraphs, but I was posting from work so I had to be quick about it lol, as far as the codecs, the latest klite codec pack and the latest version of quicktime work for me.
 
Suicide King said:
Heh, yeah I intend to edit it with paragraphs, but I was posting from work so I had to be quick about it lol, as far as the codecs, the latest klite codec pack and the latest version of quicktime work for me.
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thanks for your reply, I hate crap like this..I installed quicktime to play it.."i hate quicktime, installed divx which does play it..only to find it installs a google toolbar...

it should just play or tell you whats needed to play...grrr..
 
Suicide King said:
One of my top funniest moments in Doom3 trivia was probably at E3, Valve had been making a big deal about its physics, demonstrating the tech demo with the room full of boxes, then some reporters ask id what they thought of the Half Life 2 physics. I'm pretty sure it was Hollenshead, thought it might have been Willits, opens up the editor, within two minutes create a room full of boxes, then knocks one down to start the chain reaction, and then adds a guy and throws him into the boxes, making them all tumble in joyous physic driven chaos. The unspoken sentiment was obviously " Physics, yeah, we got 'em too, nothing special about the Half Life 2 physics."
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For people who didn't read the novel that Suicide King wrote...I saw this party and thought it was pretty funny :D
 
Very interesting :D

Then again, in recent testing with DOOM 3 we saw that game be very forgiving in terms of CPU scaling. While we cannot get into specifics yet on real-world playability, if you take a look at id Software's Official DOOM 3 Benchmarks here at HardOCP, you will see that NVIDIA's 6800 series stencil shadowing engine makes the most of DOOM 3 blowing past the competitor's cards. If your game is going to be DOOM 3 or you see yourself playing a lot of games utilizing the DOOM 3 engine (and DOOM 3 DeathMatch is a totally new experience that we see ourselves getting into heavily), you are probably going to owe it to yourself to have a BFGTech GeForce 6800 series video card in your computer.
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http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjQxLDk=
 
crime thanks for the link it works great..

i noticed this part too....


Considering all the requirements, and as you can seem from some of our benchmarks, the card is CPU limited in several games. To put it succinctly, when playing some of today's latest games, if you don't have an ultra-fast CPU, your CPU is very likely going to be holding back your video card's performance. This goes for the top end with both ATI and NVIDIA.
 
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