id Software's Official DOOM3 Benchmarks

pxc said:
LOL

The news hit anand with a link to ati's response and a whole new round of "it's not true!!!" has hit the internet.

Did you know:
1. You can't trust hardocp benchmarks (apparently timedemo demo1 can't be trusted when it's printed on hardocp, even though it was run at id with ATI and NVIDIA present)

2. NVIDIA optimized the Doom3 engine. Hmmm, I thought John Carmack wrote it.

3. Both ATI and NVIDIA cheated in the benchmarks. A funny comment since only ATI texture cheating (colored mipmaps change the results) is mentioned in the [H] article.

4. The benchmarks were *mine* since I pointed how it was run. LOL Texas was pretty hot and I only got 1/2 my normal frequent flyer miles. Sorry Kyle and Carmack, you're exposed.

5. 4GB of memory with a PCI-E and P4 3.6GHz invalidates the benchmarks. That dull blade didn't even bother to get past page 2.

I learned a lot, did anyone else? ;)

Fortunately there is some common sense in the thread, but it's still funny to read anyways. A couple of those guys obviously haven't even read the article, or just didn't understand it. You're looking at skull bone 5-6" thick in that thread.
Click to expand...

all I have to say is WOW
 
pxc said:
LOL

The news hit anand with a link to ati's response and a whole new round of "it's not true!!!" has hit the internet.

Did you know:
1. You can't trust hardocp benchmarks (apparently timedemo demo1 can't be trusted when it's printed on hardocp, even though it was run at id with ATI and NVIDIA present)

2. NVIDIA optimized the Doom3 engine. Hmmm, I thought John Carmack wrote it.

3. Both ATI and NVIDIA cheated in the benchmarks. A funny comment since only ATI texture cheating (colored mipmaps change the results) is mentioned in the [H] article.

4. The benchmarks were *mine* since I pointed how it was run. LOL Texas was pretty hot and I only got 1/2 my normal frequent flyer miles. Sorry Kyle and Carmack, you're exposed.

5. 4GB of memory with a PCI-E and P4 3.6GHz invalidates the benchmarks. That dull blade didn't even bother to get past page 2.

I learned a lot, did anyone else? ;)

Fortunately there is some common sense in the thread, but it's still funny to read anyways. A couple of those guys obviously haven't even read the article, or just didn't understand it. You're looking at skull bone 5-6" thick in that thread.
Click to expand...

I don't understand why people have to go bashing benchmarks. They put HardOCP, id, ATi, and Nvidia in a room...and benchmarks came out...how could you possibly deny the importance/fairness of those benchmarks...it's just silliness...nothing more than the old concept: if you don't like it, deny it...
 
^eMpTy^ said:
I don't understand why people have to go bashing benchmarks. They put HardOCP, id, ATi, and Nvidia in a room...and benchmarks came out...how could you possibly deny the importance/fairness of those benchmarks...it's just silliness...nothing more than the old concept: if you don't like it, deny it...
Click to expand...

Its fanboyism :) need something to gossip about
 
http://www.nvidia.com/object/IO_14696.html

... I've just about lost it with that company, publishing something like this over a grand total of SEVEN fps charts.

Whatever.

There are only two ways of looking at this situation, and their companies really... either A) You believe they're both out to deliver a great gaming experience and reasonable prices, to give to the gaming industry and stay successful.

Or, B) They're both a bunch of unethically boundless liers whom twist and manipulate the truth for their sole benefit, playing dirty and taking any means to damage someone else who holds any slight possibly of being competetive.

I live in Canada, do you know how much an 6800 or an X800XT costs up here? 800 DOLLARS. Plus 15% taxes, hey... lets drop a grand on a damn video card. Even online, in American funds, it's friggin' insane.

Too much money for TOO LITTLE. Not worth it. Not worth ONE game, 7 CHARTS of benches.... 30 hours of gameplay and a speratic multiplayer experience thereafter... no, that's bullshit.

I'm the biggest Doom III fan you'll meet, seriously, I've been addicted since '93... but it's still just ONE GAME.
 
enyx said:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/IO_14696.html

... I've just about lost it with that company, publishing something like this over a grand total of SEVEN fps charts.

Whatever.

There are only two ways of looking at this situation, and their companies really... either A) You believe they're both out to deliver a great gaming experience and reasonable prices, to give to the gaming industry and stay successful.

Or, B) They're both a bunch of unethically boundless liers whom twist and manipulate the truth for their sole benefit, playing dirty and taking any means to damage someone else who holds any slight possibly of being competetive.

I live in Canada, do you know how much an 6800 or an X800XT costs up here? 800 DOLLARS. Plus 15% taxes, hey... lets drop a grand on a damn video card. Even online, in American funds, it's friggin' insane.

Too much money for TOO LITTLE. Not worth it. Not worth ONE game, 7 CHARTS of benches.... 30 hours of gameplay and a speratic multiplayer experience thereafter... no, that's bullshit.

I'm the biggest Doom III fan you'll meet, seriously, I've been addicted since '93... but it's still just ONE GAME.
Click to expand...

Hmm really should keep self opnionating things to yourself, it might be only one game for you, but alot of gamers buy a high end graphics cards for all the upcoming games.

You don't think ATi plays dirty. Tell me this did nV ever play down SM 2.0 when the 9700 had it? Why is ATi downplaying sm 3.0 now then? Why don't they want developers developing for SM 3.0? Why did they lie about using full trileanir filtering for the x800 line and tell benchmarks to turn off nV's tri opts and compair them to the x800's when ATi fully knew their methods were optimized but the benchmarkers didn't?

Both sides do it dont try to make ATi look like a rose, its bussiness, business is dirty, if a company is afraid to get dirty well thats when that company is going to go down.
 
I predict that graphics cards will get continuously larger and only the three riches kings of the world will be able to afford them.
 
enyx said:
Or, B) They're both a bunch of unethically boundless liers whom twist and manipulate the truth for their sole benefit, playing dirty and taking any means to damage someone else who holds any slight possibly of being competetive.
Click to expand...
They are reporting HardOCP's results. I saw no changes to the results Kyle posted. Are you calling Kyle a liar? :p

Yes, it is only one game. Yes, NVIDIA is bragging about it, just like ATI bragged last September about Valve HL2 results and more recently about Far Cry results (pre-1.2). That's the PR game both companies play. But it's no reason to only get angry at one company about it. Hate the game, not the player.
 
rancor said:
Both sides do it dont try to make ATi look like a rose, its bussiness, business is dirty, if a company is afraid to get dirty well thats when that company is going to go down.
Click to expand...

hmm apparantly nvidia themselves have been working on brilinear (hey its a good idea if you ask me, and somethign ati did right) type filter which is supposd to be implemented in the 62.xx drivers. however there is supposedly going to be an option to turn it off and still keep the trilinear too but it's just a rumour so far. the fact that ati has done the filtering doesn't bother me, it's the fact they lied about it being full trilinear for so long.
 
Alright then, so it's safe to assume that they both like to nitpick, and they both like to lie?

So... why is one better than the other, being that is the real topic of conversation anyways.

In response to the whole Doom III being one game... well, it is... one game. I only stated the obvious. Although you could always say that games will come out with the same engine, or mods, or whatever...

Maybe one day we'll come out with a few more video card competetors too.

w0w...

amd vs. intel
nvidia vs. ati
creative vs. _blank_

:/
 
Lord of Shadows said:
I predict that graphics cards will get continuously larger and only the three riches kings of the world will be able to afford them.
Click to expand...
The 6800LE, if the tech report review is accurate, is pretty affordable for the performance. $199 isn't out of line for something generally faster than the 9800XT. And prices on both the x800 and 6800 lines will drop continuously over the next couple of months.
 
pxc said:
They are reporting HardOCP's results. I saw no changes to the results Kyle posted. Are you calling Kyle a liar? :p

Yes, it is only one game. Yes, NVIDIA is bragging about it, just like ATI bragged last September about Valve HL2 results and more recently about Far Cry results (pre-1.2). That's the PR game both companies play. But it's no reason to only get angry at one company about it. Hate the game, not the player.
Click to expand...

Naw, I have a firm belief in Kyle's work. Been going to this site for a long time :)

I just really dislike how nVidia is using that article. I just find it to be something too unsubstatial to publish a PR statement on. I find it more insane than anything, really.

/was shellshocked when I saw it posted at nvnews.net
 
i predict that video game software box's will grow smaller and will be owned by everyone except the three richest kings as they are too busy playing golf/governing country/king stuff
 
the most annoying PR speak i have heard right now is ati mocking nvidia with their FP32 full precision and FP16 partial precision mix. it makes bloody sense and ati will be using it with their next bloody core
 
tornadotsunamilife said:
creative vs. hercules vs. terratec vs. zalman
Click to expand...

What? Who here owns a post-creative card on the totem pole up there? I personally have never heard of those two last companies. And hercules most certainly not with sound. All I see everywhere is Creative.

Ever since they killed Aural & A3D... it's been nothing but Sound Blaster from where I can see.
 
enyx said:
What? Who here owns a post-creative card on the totem pole up there? I personally have never heard of those two last companies. And hercules most certainly not with sound. All I see everywhere is Creative.

Ever since they killed Aural & A3D... it's been nothing but Sound Blaster from where I can see.
Click to expand...

hercules make decent sound cards. the fortissimo III 7.1 sound card is here:

http://us.hercules.com/products/showpage.php?p=56&b=0&f=1

zalman although best known for their heatsinks and cooling products have also make audio products (granted not sound cards):

http://www.zalmanusa.com/usa/product/code_list.asp?code=023

and terratec make all kinds of sound based products for pc:

http://tinyurl.com/3jlra

granted none of these companies compare to creative i was merely pointing out they have quite big competition.
 
This is my favorite part:

"Certain statements in this press release including, but not limited to, statements as to the release of Doom 3 and the performance, capabilities and benefits of the GeForce 6800 and the GeForce 6800 GT, are forward-looking statements that are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause results to be materially different than expectations. Such risks and uncertainties include, but are not limited to, the impact of technological advances, manufacturing and other delays of the GeForce 6800 and the GeForce 6800 GT, NVIDIA’s dependence on third-party manufacturers, general industry trends including cyclical trends in the PC, handheld and semiconductor industries, the impact of competitive products and pricing alternatives, NVIDIA's dependence on third-party developers and publishers, certain computer configurations, and other risks detailed and from time to time in NVIDIA’s reports filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission including its Form 10-Q for the quarter ended April 25, 2004 and other filings made from time to time with the SEC. These forward-looking statements speak only as of the date hereof. NVIDIA disclaims any obligation to update these forward-looking statements."

Let me break it down for you "We are badasses because of this and this but oh bear in mind that next week it could be the complete opposite." Kind of makes you ask what the hell is the point of this statement other then maybe hoping people dont read down that far? FYI, I'm neutral when it comes to which company is better. I think thats a dumb thing to even bother with for any company.
 
http://www.shacknews.com/finger/?fid=raduffy@idsoftware.com

Now I want a 512 megabyte card. The madness never ends!!! Arghhh!!! One worry that still sits in the back of my mind tho is texture quality in D3. I've more than likely been spoiled by Unreal Tournament 2K4 and the such, with it's ultra high 1024x1024 diffuse texture maps... but from the screenshots released for Doom III it most certainly doesn't look like the texture quality will be even close to approaching that amount.

Sigh, I guess if you throw a specular and a normal map onto every surface with current hardware, that diffuse map is going to take a beating :(

1024Mb Video cards, here we go!
 
OldPueblo said:
Let me break it down for you "We are badasses because of this and this but oh bear in mind that next week it could be the complete opposite."
Click to expand...
It's called a disclaimer for a reason. Without the wording, some wacko shareholder could come back next year and sue NVIDIA. It would be frivilous of course, but the wording deflates a potential case to nothing because it constitutes a warning about relying on that information for stock/financial purposes. If Doom3 were recalled, for example, the press release would be considered misleading and nvidia could be sued if it caused any movement in the stock price, real or imagined.

The press release says in simple words: "Ha, ha we beat ati... Lawsuit-happy shareholders: this disclaimer is for you."
 
Agreed and understood, but my point was why bother then? If its not completely crystal clear guaranteed then why? They could have waited till after Doom3 shipped, or a little time went by and the 6800's were out in force. I mean "forward-looking statements", "manufacturing and other delays of the GeForce 6800 and the GeForce 6800 GT", etc. Come on, just wait two weeks or so. Maybe ol' Brian's to-do list was a little small and he got bored?
 
the common amd configuration for the typical hardware enthusiast is either nforce2, or kt400- kt600, possibly sis 746-748,intel P4C 3.0, P4b 3.06etc.. and 512 to 768 MB ram... not too many have taken the a64 leap yet. so many are wondering if they should get the second to best nVIDA card as not to have so much of a bottleneck by still running a k7 setup. likewise for intel folk still running p4b's @ 3.06. i don't think everyone needs to rush out and buy the best card for a mostly eye cady game. i know i wont. ati has nice wrappers on thier drivers (certain ones) that make flight sims get nice fps. i would like to see kyle test it with an nforce2 and an ATI 9800 Pro/XT and nVIDA 5950. KT600 too. P4B 3.06 too. Those are tyipical rigs. 512-768 mb's of ram too.
 
I can't wait until videocards are so big that you can chop tree's down with the elongated titanium psb.

Now that's future! :D

I think waiting for Doom is making my brain go something something.
 
This just in, updated benchmarks.

Doom3 at 1600x1200 / 32AA / 32AF
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GeForceFX 6800 Plutonium Magnum--------|8========D - 23FPS
ATI Radeon Nuclear Maximum Extreme----|8=======D - 22.999FPS
BitBoys Gigawatt Meglabyte Quintuple-----|888888========D - 69FPS
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
^eMpTy^ said:
Dude have you been reading all these benchmarks lately? They're all real world...
Click to expand...
Damn, I'm not even supporting a side and your flaming me. I've played with the 6800 Ultra, 6800GT, x800 XT, and the x800 Pro, and I have personally not seen a big enough performance gain over my 9800 Pro. Granted I only play games in 1280x1024 4xAA, 4xAF but overall the 5-10 FPS I gain out of all my games does not warrent a $500 price tag.

You need to relax and understand not everyone is going to throw down $400+ in order to gain a few fps here and there, especially considering a lot of the features these cards have aren't even going to be taken full adantage of until we see games specifically designed for them in a year or so, by that time we'll have a whole new bunch of cards to bitch about.
 
OldPueblo said:
Let me break it down for you "We are badasses because of this and this but oh bear in mind that next week it could be the complete opposite."
Click to expand...

I see you don't live in the US [or if you do you've lead a sheltered life], land of the frivilous lawsuit.
 
OldPueblo said:
This just in, updated benchmarks.

Doom3 at 1600x1200 / 32AA / 32AF
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GeForceFX 6800 Plutonium Magnum--------|8========D - 23FPS
ATI Radeon Nuclear Maximum Extreme----|8=======D - 22.999FPS
BitBoys Gigawatt Meglabyte Quintuple-----|888888========D - 69FPS
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Click to expand...

I KNEW BitBoys was coming with the fire! :)
 
Roach said:
Damn, I'm not even supporting a side and your flaming me. I've played with the 6800 Ultra, 6800GT, x800 XT, and the x800 Pro, and I have personally not seen a big enough performance gain over my 9800 Pro. Granted I only play games in 1280x1024 4xAA, 4xAF but overall the 5-10 FPS I gain out of all my games does not warrent a $500 price tag.

You need to relax and understand not everyone is going to throw down $400+ in order to gain a few fps here and there, especially considering a lot of the features these cards have aren't even going to be taken full adantage of until we see games specifically designed for them in a year or so, by that time we'll have a whole new bunch of cards to bitch about.
Click to expand...

lol...I'm not saying you have to buy one...I'm saying that "not enough performance increase" isn't a reason to pass over this generation...I maintain this is the biggest performance increase ever seen from one generation to the next...and I've been paying attention for a long ass time...

and if you think my previous post was a flame, you've led a sheltered life...
 
The Batman said:
I see you don't live in the US [or if you do you've lead a sheltered life], land of the frivilous lawsuit.
Click to expand...

My point is not that there is no point in using a disclaimer. It's that it would have generally been unnecessary to have such a detailed and moronic disclaimer if they had just waited for Doom3 to actually hit the market and then be proven on all machines everywhere, if that's the case. I am in the US (says under the name FYI) though I do also enjoy the perks that come with a sheltered life.
 
OldPueblo said:
My point is not that there is no point in using a disclaimer. It's that it would have generally been unnecessary to have such a detailed and moronic disclaimer if they had just waited for Doom3 to actually hit the market and then be proven on all machines everywhere, if that's the case. I am in the US (says under the name FYI) though I do also enjoy the perks that come with a sheltered life.
Click to expand...
It is necessary to use such a disclaimer, but it has nothing to do with you or any end-user of nVidia products.

Its only purpose is to deny shareholders (in this case of nVidia shares) the right to claim that they were damaged by being led to believe that this information would specifically and certainly enhance the value of their holdings in nVidia, and to deny them this claim as a basis for litigation in Federal court.

This is a:

"Cautionary Statement for the Purposes of the 'Safe Harbor' Provisions of the 'Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995' (quoted below)."

This is what is commonly known as a "forward-looking-statement disclaimer." These are boilerplate paragraphs added to press releases and other such information to shield the issuer from such (unreasonable) claims.

Such a disclaimer is included specifically to satisfy:

TITLE I--REDUCTION OF ABUSIVE LITIGATION

Sec. 102. Safe harbor for forward-looking statements.

'(c) SAFE HARBOR-
'(1) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in subsection (b), in any private
action arising under this title that is based on an untrue statement of
a material fact or omission of a material fact necessary to make the
statement not misleading, a person referred to in subsection (a) shall
not be liable with respect to any forward-looking statement, whether
written or oral, if and to the extent that--
'(A) the forward-looking statement is--
'(i) identified as a forward-looking statement, and is
accompanied by meaningful cautionary statements identifying important
factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those
in the forward-looking statement;'

A "forward-looking statement" is one which could be construed as predicting (hence it is "forward-looking") the appreciation of holdings in a company.
 
WOW. I was unaware that there even was such a thing as a known "forward-looking statement disclaimer" and even more so that something would be necessary regarding a video game launch. I hereby withdraw my pointed head and say thanks for the info. See how easy it is guys? Being wrong isn't so bad if we learn something. :)
 
OldPueblo said:
WOW. I was unaware that there even was such a thing as a known "forward-looking statement disclaimer" and even more so that something would be necessary regarding a video game launch. I hereby withdraw my pointed head and say thanks for the info. See how easy it is guys? Being wrong isn't so bad if we learn something. :)
Click to expand...
You're welcome, and anything that results in fewer lawsuits can only be a good thing, IMO! :)
 
Pair O' Noyas said:
It is necessary to use such a disclaimer, but it has nothing to do with you or any end-user of nVidia products.

Its only purpose is to deny shareholders (in this case of nVidia shares) the right to claim that they were damaged by being led to believe that this information would specifically and certainly enhance the value of their holdings in nVidia, and to deny them this claim as a basis for litigation in Federal court.

This is a:

"Cautionary Statement for the Purposes of the 'Safe Harbor' Provisions of the 'Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995' (quoted below)."

This is what is commonly known as a "forward-looking-statement disclaimer." These are boilerplate paragraphs added to press releases and other such information to shield the issuer from such (unreasonable) claims.

Such a disclaimer is included specifically to satisfy:

TITLE I--REDUCTION OF ABUSIVE LITIGATION

Sec. 102. Safe harbor for forward-looking statements.

'(c) SAFE HARBOR-
'(1) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in subsection (b), in any private
action arising under this title that is based on an untrue statement of
a material fact or omission of a material fact necessary to make the
statement not misleading, a person referred to in subsection (a) shall
not be liable with respect to any forward-looking statement, whether
written or oral, if and to the extent that--
'(A) the forward-looking statement is--
'(i) identified as a forward-looking statement, and is
accompanied by meaningful cautionary statements identifying important
factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those
in the forward-looking statement;'

A "forward-looking statement" is one which could be construed as predicting (hence it is "forward-looking") the appreciation of holdings in a company.
Click to expand...

Doh found it before i did good work Pair O' Noyas :)
 
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