I love Linux

octane

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Damnit I'm going to have a to figure out how to get Steam running on Linux...

The Ubuntu Solus Budgie image I installed doesn't let it start, even after installation, and CPU-Z doesn't work either. Thinking I should wipe for Ubuntu MATE.

*got my distros and DEs confused... I think!
Did you install Steam from the Software Center in Solus or did you install it via the Steam website?

You have to install Steam via the Solus Software Center as Solus has performed some very handy modifications with Stem integration. It does wirk, I have a machine running it here.

The only time I had issues installing Steam was under AMD open source drivers as the installation of Steam caused a dependancy issue - A quick Google and all was fixed in no time. Its not like I havent had issues with Steam under other OS's and I have other Ubuntu machines here running Steam no worries as downloaded off the Steam site itself.

If you're going AMD the open source drivers combined with Mesa as installed by default are the best performance wise and come installed out of the box. Getting the AMDGPU drivers installed can be problematic and aren't as good performance wise - The freesync monitor will give you grief under the open source drivers and it's unlikely freesync will work.
 
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Lunar

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Did you install Steam from the Software Center in Solus or did you install it via the Steam website?

You have to install Steam via the Solus Software Center as Solus has performed some very handy modifications with Stem integration. It does wirk, I have a machine running it here.

The only time I had issues installing Steam was under AMD open source drivers as the installation of Steam caused a dependancy issue - A quick Google and all was fixed in no time. Its not like I havent had issues with Steam under other OS's and I have other Ubuntu machines here running Steam no worries as downloaded off the Steam site itself.

If you're going AMD the open source drivers combined with Mesa as installed by default are the best performance wise and come installed out of the box. Getting the AMDGPU drivers installed can be problematic and aren't as good performance wise - The freesync monitor will give you grief under the open source drivers and it's unlikely freesync will work.
Yeah, at this point I think the best implementation of Steam on Linux is actually on Solus. Their LSI work is phenomenal. They are thankfully working on snapping it up so that other distros can use it, but currently it's only on Solus in a stable implementation.
 

octane

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Yeah, at this point I think the best implementation of Steam on Linux is actually on Solus. Their LSI work is phenomenal. They are thankfully working on snapping it up so that other distros can use it, but currently it's only on Solus in a stable implementation.
Solus is awesome!

To the OP, don't give up on Solus just yet.
 

Vermillion

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Yeah, at this point I think the best implementation of Steam on Linux is actually on Solus. Their LSI work is phenomenal. They are thankfully working on snapping it up so that other distros can use it, but currently it's only on Solus in a stable implementation.
The LSI snap is available on Ubuntu derivatives on the edge channel of the snap store. You do need the latest snapd though. https://solus-project.com/2017/12/19/lsi-0-7-2-released/

sudo snap install --edge solus-runtime-gaming
sudo snap install --edge --devmode linux-steam-integration
 

cybereality

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Also, how are the latest AMD drivers on Linux?

I have a 32" 4k60 HDR Freesync panel that I picked up (new, cheap, somehow) between the holidays that is alright, it's an IPS panel with lots of back-light-bleed commensurate with its bargain price but is otherwise fine, and I'm wondering if I shouldn't see if I can swap the old GTX970 that's in there now for a contemporary AMD part for Freesync and 10bit support, supposing those are worth exploring on Linux.
So, if it's a DisplayPort monitor you should be OK. I don't think HDMI FreeSync is supported. And, unfortunately, HDMI 2.0 is not supported in the open-source driver yet, so 4K60, HDR, etc. won't work over HDMI.

You can use the AMD PRO driver, which does support HDMI 2.0, but I think only on Ubuntu 16.04 (and a few other specific OS releases). I tried with 17.10 and I the machine would not boot (if anyone knows how to get the pro driver working in latest Ubuntu, please let me know).

While I did get 4K60 working over a DisplayPort-to-HDMI adapter, I can't get audio through my TV, and the Vulkan support is not 100% solid with the open-source driver yet (should be soon though).

Thinking about it more, I may reinstall the OS with Ubuntu 16.04 so I can use the AMD PRO driver. I built this machine specifically for Vulkan development, and using a non-conformant driver probably isn't the best idea.
 
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octane

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So, if it's a DisplayPort monitor you should be OK. I don't think HDMI FreeSync is supported. And, unfortunately, HDMI 2.0 is not supported in the open-source driver yet, so HDMI 4K60, HDR, etc. won't work over HDMI.

You can use the AMD PRO driver, which does support HDMI 2.0, but I think only on Ubuntu 16.04 (and a few other specific OS releases). I tried with 17.10 and I the machine would not boot (if anyone knows how to get the pro driver working in latest Ubuntu, please let me know).

While I did get 4K60 working over a DisplayPort-to-HDMI adapter, I can't get audio through my TV, and the Vulkan support is not 100% solid with the open-source driver yet (should be soon though).

Thinking about it more, I may reinstall the OS with Ubuntu 16.04 so I can use the AMD PRO driver. I built this machine specifically for Vulkan development, and using a non-conformant driver probably isn't the best idea.
It's a shame the AMD PRO driver dosent have a PPA like the Nvidia drivers do otherwise the drivers would be a snitch to install. Did you try the following instructions Cyberreality?

http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/AMDGPU-PRO-Install.aspx
 

cybereality

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Yes, that is the guide I used, and I tried it twice (after restoring my system) just in case I missed something. From my quick search it seems there are problems unless you use the specific Ubuntu version they recommend (but I could be wrong, I'm still a Linux n00b).
 

octane

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Yes, that is the guide I used, and I tried it twice (after restoring my system) just in case I missed something. From my quick search it seems there are problems unless you use the specific Ubuntu version they recommend (but I could be wrong, I'm still a Linux n00b).
People hate on Nvidia because they don't contribute to open source Nouveau drivers. But the fact is they perform so well are fully featured and so easy to install, it's the reason why I stik with them. AMD are really dragging the chain with their AMDGPU-PRO drivers. Mind you, the Nvidia 384.98 drivers don't play well with the 4.14 kernel.

I should stuff an AMD card in my Solus rig and see if I can install the AMD PRO driver any easier under Solus.
 
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octane

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Yes, that is the guide I used, and I tried it twice (after restoring my system) just in case I missed something. From my quick search it seems there are problems unless you use the specific Ubuntu version they recommend (but I could be wrong, I'm still a Linux n00b).
AMD PRO only supports 16.04LTS as far as I can tel.
 

IdiotInCharge

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In my case, the only draw for AMD is Freesync- I love G-Sync on my main rig, and while Freesync is inferior (and this monitor is 60Hz and not 165Hz...), it's still certainly better than nothing.

The real hard part though is the absolutely absurd pricing for AMD GPUs. My GTX970 is maybe RX470-level performance, conservatively, and yet I couldn't trade it straight up for an RX460 if I wanted. Worse, the monitor is 4k, for which even the GTX970 is far from suitable :D.

The second draw is HDR and 10-bit support, for which I may need an AMD GPU or a 10-series Nvidia GPU, if support is limited with Maxwell and previous Geforce GPUs as in Windows. And this isn't something I need, 10-bit support is more of a pain for photography than a boon, but it's something I'd like to try alongside attempting to root out an editing process on Linux.
 

Vermillion

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One of the best things about Linux vs Windows is something we've all talked about many times over. Updating Linux is a million times better.

I'm right now updating a laptop at work that we use for VR stuff (Occulus). It's an Alienware 17 R4 fully loaded. Build 1709 started installing at 12:44PM EST. It's now 1:27PM EST and it's still going...

EDIT: It finished at 1:33PM EST but still has more updates to do...

Just a ridiculous time consuming process on Windows.

EDIT 2: 1:44PM EST updates finally done. 59 minutes to simply update the system and this is a beastly laptop. Totally unacceptable in my opinion.
 
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ManofGod

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One of the best things about Linux vs Windows is something we've all talked about many times over. Updating Linux is a million times better.

I'm right now updating a laptop at work that we use for VR stuff (Occulus). It's an Alienware 17 R4 fully loaded. Build 1709 started installing at 12:44PM EST. It's now 1:27PM EST and it's still going...

EDIT: It finished at 1:33PM EST but still has more updates to do...

Just a ridiculous time consuming process on Windows.

EDIT 2: 1:44PM EST updates finally done. 59 minutes to simply update the system and this is a beastly laptop. Totally unacceptable in my opinion.
So, you are saying a full version upgrade up Linux is going to take less time? Like going from Ubuntu 16.04 to 17.04? I may sound like I a rolling my eyes but, I am actually quite serious. :D
 

naib

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So, you are saying a full version upgrade up Linux is going to take less time? Like going from Ubuntu 16.04 to 17.04? I may sound like I a rolling my eyes but, I am actually quite serious. :D
Yes. One of the major slowdown with windows update is actually downto NTFS and that it cannot replace files in-use so it has to stage it and finish it during shutdown and at the next start THEN it can proceed again with shutdown.

This isn't the case for any other OS that can dereference the inodes so the running applications still access the old data (dereferenced) but new launches use the new file.

The only slowdown with say an update of Ubuntu is if you run server applications (mysql, nginx, samba etc...) Part of the upgrade will sit there waiting for you to confirm KEEP MY EDITS! I am sure there is a way to set it to never replace my edits but well.. I am a Gentoo user and only manage a Ubuntu box at work
 

motomonkey

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Most people can't run Linux not because of some weakness in Linux, but because they rely on software that only runs under Windows. :rolleyes:

That's hardly a weakness in Linux - That's called a stranglehold on the market place and is the result of many, many decades of ruthless marketing. Furthermore, the masses that don't think about it don't even know what Windows is - Hardly the basis for a concrete argument.

Good to hear Deadjasper. Been running various Linux distro's for years now without issue, don't require anything the Windows platform offers and have no plans of switching back to the issues surrounding Windows anytime soon.

A lack of viable commercial software IS a weakness, however it came to exist. If I could run the programs I need on Linux, I would not use windows. It's been a chicken (Penguin) and egg problem for Linux since day one.
 
D

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All I'll say about the update process is that in my experience (which it always is, right, same for the rest of you?) it's not always easy-peasy stuff and I have had situations all too frequently where <package manager> can't finish things, too many unfilled dependencies (not the fault of the package manager directly), or failed updates, repositories not being online or so slow everything keeps timing out, etc.

Only issue I've ever legitimately had with Windows Update since it came into being? Slow downloads of updates, that's about it.

So again, experience for each of us presents different situations, some better than others, and again no OS is perfect and certainly no package manager either. :D
 

octane

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All I'll say about the update process is that in my experience (which it always is, right, same for the rest of you?) it's not always easy-peasy stuff and I have had situations all too frequently where <package manager> can't finish things, too many unfilled dependencies (not the fault of the package manager directly), or failed updates, repositories not being online or so slow everything keeps timing out, etc.

Only issue I've ever legitimately had with Windows Update since it came into being? Slow downloads of updates, that's about it.

So again, experience for each of us presents different situations, some better than others, and again no OS is perfect and certainly no package manager either. :D
Wow, I've never had this. I run a number of distros and packag manager has always got it right.
 

octane

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A lack of viable commercial software IS a weakness, however it came to exist. If I could run the programs I need on Linux, I would not use windows. It's been a chicken (Penguin) and egg problem for Linux since day one.
Its obviously not a weekness for deadjasper.

I love Linux and an amazed at just how good it is and how much software runs under Linux these days. I'll never pay for an operating system again.
 

Lunar

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People hate on Nvidia because they don't contribute to open source Nouveau drivers. But the fact is they perform so well are fully featured and so easy to install, it's the reason why I stik with them. AMD are really dragging the chain with their AMDGPU-PRO drivers. Mind you, the Nvidia 384.98 drivers don't play well with the 4.14 kernel.

I should stuff an AMD card in my Solus rig and see if I can install the AMD PRO driver any easier under Solus.
I thought the preferred drivers to use for AMD cards these days were the ones included with MESA. IIRC, AMD has actually been directing people to only use the GPU-PRO drivers for specific use cases. I could also be wrong. I'm currently running NVIDIA hardware, and I have no personal experience with AMD hardware on Linux at this time.
 
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octane

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I thought the preferred drivers to use for AMD cards these days were the ones included with MESA. IIRC, AMD has actually been directing people to only use the GPU-PRO drivers for specific use cases. I could also be wrong. I'm currently running NVIDIA hardware, and I have no personal experience with AMD hardware on Linux at this time.
Oh they are! The problem is Deadjasper's monitor has Freesync and the better performing open source drivers don't support Freesync. Every time I've run AMD hardware ive used the open source/mesa drivers and they've been simple and improving in speed all the time.
 

heatlesssun

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Its obviously not a weekness for deadjasper.

I love Linux and an amazed at just how good it is and how much software runs under Linux these days. I'll never pay for an operating system again.
Strengths and weaknesses are never universal. The cost of Windows doesn't mean a whole lot if you have a lot invested in hardware and software that doesn't work with Linux.
 

Vermillion

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So, you are saying a full version upgrade up Linux is going to take less time? Like going from Ubuntu 16.04 to 17.04? I may sound like I a rolling my eyes but, I am actually quite serious. :D
Yes. In fact I just installed 16.04.03. Fully updated it. Then upgraded to 17.04. 39 minutes to install from scratch, update, and then upgrade. Want me to upgrade to 17.10 as well and still be faster than Win10 1709's install? ;)

Oh and mind you I did all this on a Latitude E5470. NOT the beastly Alienware. That's pretty damn telling right there.

All I'll say about the update process is that in my experience (which it always is, right, same for the rest of you?) it's not always easy-peasy stuff and I have had situations all too frequently where <package manager> can't finish things, too many unfilled dependencies (not the fault of the package manager directly), or failed updates, repositories not being online or so slow everything keeps timing out, etc.

Only issue I've ever legitimately had with Windows Update since it came into being? Slow downloads of updates, that's about it.

So again, experience for each of us presents different situations, some better than others, and again no OS is perfect and certainly no package manager either. :D
And I can't disagree. Windows updates can bork you. Linux updates can bork you. My problem is every package manager I've ever used makes it far easier to fix issues and also makes upgrades so much simpler and much, much faster. Win10 is just so god damn slow with updates nowadays. It's downright pathetic.
 

motomonkey

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Its obviously not a weekness for deadjasper.

I love Linux and an amazed at just how good it is and how much software runs under Linux these days. I'll never pay for an operating system again.
When they release a version of Adobe Lightroom on Linux, plus better support for games, (native, not WINE, Gotta have my Overwatch fix) that's when I stop buying Micro$oft licenses. I installed Kubunta on a backup machine, and in general like it. had some weird issues at first due to downloading the AMD64 specific iso by mistake, but it still worked and the updater fixed itself (color me amazed).

the lack of Microsoft installed crapware and a clean GUI was a breath of fresh air.

plus, KDE Plasma GUI is really sharp.
 

heatlesssun

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Except this is a thread about Linux.
Except the OP started in the OP with a Windows comparison and others have made similar comparisons. I'll grant that Linux overall is easier to update. Except when it doesn't or that how fast it updates is irrelevant if it doesn't support the task at hand. As much as people have debated this subject for two decades, the strengths and weaknesses of desktop Linux and Windows are obvious. People in threads like this don't run Windows because they think it's awesome, they do it because it tends to work for their needs and Linux doesn't. And the reverse is generally true. I'm wouldn't expect a Linux user to run Windows if they'd have to toss thousands of dollars away in hardware and software at least as a client host.
 

octane

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Except the OP started in the OP with a Windows comparison and others have made similar comparisons. I'll grant that Linux overall is easier to update. Except when it doesn't or that how fast it updates is irrelevant if it doesn't support the task at hand. As much as people have debated this subject for two decades, the strengths and weaknesses of desktop Linux and Windows are obvious. People in threads like this don't run Windows because they think it's awesome, they do it because it tends to work for their needs and Linux doesn't. And the reverse is generally true. I'm wouldn't expect a Linux user to run Windows if they'd have to toss thousands of dollars away in hardware and software at least as a client host.
Deadjasper's made his decision as seen in the OP.

I havnt been here long but it's strange how you keep trying to derail the thread towards Windows. We want to discuss Linux lets just discuss Linux. If you prefer Windows make another thread not in the Linux forum.
 

octane

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When they release a version of Adobe Lightroom on Linux, plus better support for games, (native, not WINE, Gotta have my Overwatch fix) that's when I stop buying Micro$oft licenses. I installed Kubunta on a backup machine, and in general like it. had some weird issues at first due to downloading the AMD64 specific iso by mistake, but it still worked and the updater fixed itself (color me amazed).

the lack of Microsoft installed crapware and a clean GUI was a breath of fresh air.

plus, KDE Plasma GUI is really sharp.
Fair enough that covers a small proportion of professionals. But this is a Linux thread and were discussingg deadjaspers choice, a choice thats been made.
 

Deadjasper

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The mail lady delivered the final 16gb mem module today and in the mean time I found a deal on 2 more on eBay and used my eBucks to bring the price down a bit. I will now have the system maxed out with 96gb of RAM. It will be running dual X5675's on a Supermicro X8DAL-i MB. Case will be a Fractal Design R4 I picked up on eBay about a year ago. PSU will be a Lenovo D30 1150w (gotta have 2 8 pin CPU feeds). I'm currently running Ubuntu-MATE on a Samsung 480gb Enterprise grade SSD. It will also have a 3tb spinner for data storage. I plan to fire the system up and let the OS sort out the new HW. I'll do a fresh install if necessary but hope I can avoid it.

Also forgot to mention the Video card will be a GTX 750. EVGA I think.

At present I'm running Memtest86 on the 64gb that's currently installed and will run it again when the rest of the memory arrives.
 

heatlesssun

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Deadjasper's made his decision as seen in the OP.

I havnt been here long but it's strange how you keep trying to derail the thread towards Windows. We want to discuss Linux lets just discuss Linux. If you prefer Windows make another thread not in the Linux forum.
LOL! Not at all. It's just sometimes there are things said in threads like these that, well if you're in that situation, you just get a big kick out of it. Vermillion was making note of how unacceptable to him the length of the Windows 10 update was on that Alienware 17 R4, used to drive an Oculus Rift. If you've ever attempted to setup VR under Linux, we'll, you'd understand the irony of what he said.
 

octane

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The mail lady delivered the final 16gb mem module today and in the mean time I found a deal on 2 more on eBay and used my eBucks to bring the price down a bit. I will now have the system maxed out with 96gb of RAM. It will be running dual X5675's on a Supermicro X8DAL-i MB. Case will be a Fractal Design R4 I picked up on eBay about a year ago. PSU will be a Lenovo D30 1150w (gotta have 2 8 pin CPU feeds). I'm currently running Ubuntu-MATE on a Samsung 480gb Enterprise grade SSD. It will also have a 3tb spinner for data storage. I plan to fire the system up and let the OS sort out the new HW. I'll do a fresh install if necessary but hope I can avoid it.

Also forgot to mention the Video card will be a GTX 750. EVGA I think.

At present I'm running Memtest86 on the 64gb that's currently installed and will run it again when the rest of the memory arrives.
So awesome. Love x58 :D
 

Vermillion

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LOL! Not at all. It's just sometimes there are things said in threads like these that, well if you're in that situation, you just get a big kick out of it. Vermillion was making note of how unacceptable to him the length of the Windows 10 update was on that Alienware 17 R4, used to drive an Oculus Rift. If you've ever attempted to setup VR under Linux, we'll, you'd understand the irony of what he said.
Just what the fuck does the ridiculous length of time for Win10 updates have anything to do with VR on Linux? I only mentioned VR because I wanted people to understand how powerful the laptop was in order to show how crappy Windows 10 updates are. Leave it to you to warp what I said.
 

octane

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Just what the fuck does the ridiculous length of time for Win10 updates have anything to do with VR on Linux? I only mentioned VR because I wanted people to understand how powerful the laptop was in order to show how crappy Windows 10 updates are. Leave it to you to warp what I said.
I just don't understand the Windows comparisons. It's like someones trying to convince me Windows is better and for my uses it is not. I've had negative experiences updating Windows 10, I've had no issues updating any of my Linux machins. I feel no need to discuss my Windows 10 experiences here.

Strange how someone got banned and all I can see is him following the rules. He even thanked the Administrator earlier on. Yet peopl can keep posting Windows comparisons in a Linux thread??
 

heatlesssun

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Just what the fuck does the ridiculous length of time for Win10 updates have anything to do with VR on Linux? I only mentioned VR because I wanted people to understand how powerful the laptop was in order to show how crappy Windows 10 updates are. Leave it to you to warp what I said.
The basic installation and updating of a desktop Linux distro like Ubuntu for basic stuff is a breeze, I don't even argue that it's not better than Windows. It's just the irony of what you said to someone who's a big VR user like me who has actually tried VR under Linux which is rare for even here.
 

Frobozz

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I just don't understand the Windows comparisons. It's like someones trying to convince me Windows is better and for my uses it is not. I've had negative experiences updating Windows 10, I've had no issues updating any of my Linux machins. I feel no need to discuss my Windows 10 experiences here.

Strange how someone got banned and all I can see is him following the rules. He even thanked the Administrator earlier on. Yet peopl can keep posting Windows comparisons in a Linux thread??
 

cybereality

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Well, some stuff can be complex on Linux, but some stuff is actually very easy.

I wanted to download the Ubuntu LTS ISO last night. Clicked the torrent link, torrent downloader was already pre-installed, downloaded 1.5GB in a few minutes.

Clicked the startup disk creator, also pre-installed, had the Ubuntu ISO file and my thumb drive already selected, clicked one button, and it copied and finished in like 15 seconds.

This was a surprisingly smooth experience.
 

octane

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Well, some stuff can be complex on Linux, but some stuff is actually very easy.

I wanted to download the Ubuntu LTS ISO last night. Clicked the torrent link, torrent downloader was already pre-installed, downloaded 1.5GB in a few minutes.

Clicked the startup disk creator, also pre-installed, had the Ubuntu ISO file and my thumb drive already selected, clicked one button, and it copied and finished in like 15 seconds.

This was a surprisingly smooth experience.
I don't know bash like naib and I'm totly envious of his skills, but all operating systems require some form of terminal use for advanced tasks and I just cannot believe how good Linux is. Terminal makes sence in alot of cases under Linux and I cannot see myself ever paying for an operating system ever again as theres just no need for me to.
 
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heatlesssun

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It's like someones trying to convince me Windows is better and for my uses it is not. I've had negative experiences updating Windows 10, I've had no issues updating any of my Linux machins.
You like Linux and it does what you want. No one is debating that. That doesn't mean it's any more perfect for everyone than Windows. It would be nice if Linux fans understood that point.
 

octane

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You like Linux and it does what you want. No one is debating that. That doesn't mean it's any more perfect for everyone than Windows. It would be nice if Linux fans understood that point.
Wel point in case, I use Linux and I find it better than Windows its perfect. I still feel like your trying to sell Windows after the administrator said no more windows talk.

I came here because of the Linux forums, I want to discus Linux.
 

heatlesssun

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Wel point in case, I use Linux and I find it better than Windows its perfect.
It's not about Windows, it's about reality. Nothing is perfect. Vermillion wouldn't be complaining about the update speed of Windows 10, not in that situation. He'd have installed Linux and been done with it.
 
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