I love Linux

Deadjasper

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Been running Ubuntu-MATE for about 6 months now and it's far exceeded my expectations. I love knowing that it's not calling home every 2 seconds. I love it's well thought out GUI. I love the power of it's CLI. It's not perfect but it's closer than the alternative. I suppose I should thank the steaming pile of shit called Windows 10 for finally making me get to know and appreciate Linux for what it is. MS can KMA. I'm vnever looking back.

btw, I'm in the process of building a Dually Linux system. Stand by for pics and details. :cool:
 

travm

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Feb 26, 2016
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never tried MATE, Ubuntu and derivatives definately are the "best linux" at just working for desktop users. Although in my experience they do break often enough. To be fair I havent tried them all, and there are a lot.
My first go at linux was Gentoo, talk about a learning experience. Was fun, but by the time i had a half functioning desktop.... Linux is a pretty cool social experiment.
 

heatlesssun

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trolling
Glad to hear it! I think most people in place like this know the deal between Windows and Linux, Linux ain't new like Windows on the desktop. Everything has strengths and weaknesses and while a typical PC buyer doesn't think much about it people in places like this do. I'd love to run Linux on all my desktops and have that be that. But it simply isn't possible because of the weaknesses in Linux that Linux fans say aren't weaknesses.

It's working for you and that's the important thing.
 

BulletDust

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Most people can't run Linux not because of some weakness in Linux, but because they rely on software that only runs under Windows. :rolleyes:

That's hardly a weakness in Linux - That's called a stranglehold on the market place and is the result of many, many decades of ruthless marketing. Furthermore, the masses that don't think about it don't even know what Windows is - Hardly the basis for a concrete argument.

Good to hear Deadjasper. Been running various Linux distro's for years now without issue, don't require anything the Windows platform offers and have no plans of switching back to the issues surrounding Windows anytime soon.
 
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BulletDust

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never tried MATE, Ubuntu and derivatives definately are the "best linux" at just working for desktop users. Although in my experience they do break often enough. To be fair I havent tried them all, and there are a lot.
My first go at linux was Gentoo, talk about a learning experience. Was fun, but by the time i had a half functioning desktop.... Linux is a pretty cool social experiment.

Windows 10 with it's shocking excuse for an updater and rolling release failed social experiment - Not to mention viruses, malware and PUP's, is by far more fragile than Ubuntu based distros in my experience.
 
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octane

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I'm running MATE as a result of Bullet's praise for the DE and I have to say I also love it.

I also have to say that I have no reason to use Windows 10 and have no desire to run Windows ever again. Most of my Steam titles run under Linux with acceptable performance so I'm happy.
 

heatlesssun

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Furthermore, the masses that don't think about it don't even know what Windows is - Hardly the basis for a concrete argument.

This group would also not know Linux is. Much of the problem with this argument in place like this is that we're not the masses. I'd have no problem like anyone else around here running a free OS without the hassles of Windows. If it didn't involve tons of issues with tons of money spent on hardware and software.
 

BulletDust

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This group would also not know Linux is. Much of the problem with this argument in place like this is that we're not the masses. I'd have no problem like anyone else around here running a free OS without the hassles of Windows. If it didn't involve tons of issues with tons of money spent on hardware and software.

Never disputed otherwise and I don't care what you want/need. Anyone that keeps buying decades of Microsoft/Surface products is hardly the kind of person to even remotely offer an unbiased opinion.
 

ManofGod

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Never disputed otherwise and I don't care what you want/need. Anyone that keeps buying decades of Microsoft/Surface products is hardly the kind of person to even remotely offer an unbiased opinion.

I could say the same thing about someone who trumpets Linux every chance he gets... *Cough* I see no reason for anyone here to limit themselves to just one OS or another. This is not a competition, despite what some of you may think, period. To the OP, glad you are enjoying it but, if you have to bash one thing just so you can enjoy or love another, just how much are you truly enjoying that thing you say you love?

*Let me guess BD: This is just a troll post and I have no idea what Linux is or even how to use it, right? :rolleyes:*
 

heatlesssun

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Never disputed otherwise and I don't care what you want/need. Anyone that keeps buying decades of Microsoft/Surface products is hardly the kind of person to even remotely offer an unbiased opinion.

This is an area where it get EXTREMELY confusing even in place like this. So support Linux, cool. What desktop Linux products am I supposed to buy? Hell I bought an S8 Note, about the most Linux product the masses would buy these days.

Surface products? I never bought any until the Surface Pro 3 which defined that line. The Surface Book, the most unique convertible ever made. Also runs Linux fine virtually, downloadable from the Windows Store.
 
D

Deleted member 245375

Guest
Let's do something different for 2018, folks:

Let's not turn every fucking Linux thread into a bashing session against the competing products, and let's not turn Windows threads into bashing sessions either (unless we're all bashing Windows 10 in unison because really, the truth hurts). :D

Can we all just for once fucking agree on something simple like "Every OS has it's strengths and weaknesses as heatlesssun stated earlier and I've stated over the years and so have many others, if Linux works best for you that's fantastic, if it's Windows that suits all your needs, requirements, and wants, that's awesome, if it's OSX/macOS that too is spectacular, it really is, but that doesn't mean Linux or Windows or OSX/macOS is the best operating system ever made and everything else sucks (except Windows 10, of course)."

Can we just do that one simple thing? :D

And Happy New Year... :p
 

B00nie

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True story: My in-laws and my mother have been running Ubuntu Mate for years now. I usually don't have to touch them at all until now. The reason? MICROSOFT of course. Their damn Skype updater doesn't work and the old release of Skype got disabled. So I had to manually reinstall the new version of Skype to them.

It seems whatever I do I can't escape dear old MS fucking with me.
 

CookieFactory

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Typical Linux holier-than-thou attitude:

If something fucks up in Windows, it's Microsoft's fault.
If something fucks up in Linux, it's the user's fault.

Ya'll act like part of your identity is tied up with your OS.

Chillax it's just a tool. I use Win 10 LTSB on my desktop, OS X on my laptop, and Ubuntu on my server.
 

heatlesssun

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However, as a Windows 10 user on two machines here myself, where I can praise Windows I do - It's just there isn't much to praise unless you want to play EA games and the like. My daughter likes The Sims, she primarily runs Windows, she also runs Linux as I don't want her growing up like many in these very forums with no understanding of anything beyond Windows.

The biggest PC game of 2017 was PUBG and EA had nothing to do with it and there's no native Linux or macOS version. PUBG came out of nowhere from an indie developer. There were a record number of small and indie PC releases last year and Linux got ignored big time so lack of Linux Origin support isn't even a 100th of the problem.

I do agree with you that most people who use Windows use it because it's just there and many if not most of these folks could get by with Linux just fine. But lack of support for the latest and great hardware and software continues to be a huge problem for desktop Linux. If this weren't a big problem everyone on this forum would be running Linux. Period.
 

naib

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*sigh* the usual "linux can't do this, linux can't do that" from the usual naysayers..

Look Heatlesssun, ManofGod... we get it... you prefer Windows, you are in a position where "linux doesn't work for me" good for you... Guess what for the local's of this subforum it does!. Someone has tried it and it does what they want. So how about you don't start fscking 2018 with your standard bullshit!
 

cybereality

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I've been using Linux more seriously in the past year, with a dual boot machine and one dedicated Linux miner. I like Linux, but sometimes things that are dead simple on Windows turn into huge research projects on Linux. Case in point, I setup a new machine this weekend and I'm trying to use it on a 4K TV. In Windows, it takes 2 seconds to select 4K 60Hz and that's it. I spent all night trying to get 60Hz working (and eventually did) but ran into all sorts of issues. Open-source AMD driver not supporting HDMI 2.0. AMDGPU-Pro driver not available on Manjaro, causing the PC to not boot in latest Ubunutu, etc. In general, these issues don't really happen in Windows. I still want to make Linux work, but it's for sure more hassle than Windows and I wouldn't recommend it for non-expert PC users.
 

swatbat

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Most people can't run Linux not because of some weakness in Linux, but because they rely on software that only runs under Windows. :rolleyes:

That's hardly a weakness in Linux - That's called a stranglehold on the market place and is the result of many, many decades of ruthless marketing. Furthermore, the masses that don't think about it don't even know what Windows is - Hardly the basis for a concrete argument.

Good to hear Deadjasper. Been running various Linux distro's for years now without issue, don't require anything the Windows platform offers and have no plans of switching back to the issues surrounding Windows anytime soon.

No lack of compatibility, be it hardware or in this case software is a weakness. This is found in both free and commercially sold software. It's getting better though. Attempts in bringing paid software markets to it haven't gone well either. Even ubuntu's store was a bad failure and that was the one you'd expect to do better. I haven't checked with steam as of late but I remember the early reports didn't show good things for the linux client sales. The operating system is there to run the software you need to use on top of it. If it doesn't than it is a limit or weakness to it.

Now for many home users this isn't a big deal. I converted my father to linux years ago and he has mostly been happy with it. Hell steam has helped on the gaming side which was one of the biggest drawbacks for home users(other than stuff like running netflix and that has long been fixed) It still is a big issue in the business area though.

I'm not trying to bash linux here but one needs to be able to acknowledge issues as well as the positives. Brushing off the bad just makes its users look bad. Linux has its issues, for many those issues are not as big as say mac os or windows 10. In my case my primary notebook is a surface pro 4 running windows 10 because I have business software that will not work in linux. My home laptop? A dell xps developer edition currently running ubuntu right now. I also have a mac as I need to support them from time to time. It gets used the least.
 

KarsusTG

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But Microsoft isn't anywhere near all of the problem. 3rd parties are absolutely critical to the health of a platform and far too many of them simply don't care about desktop Linux.

What I'll never understand is why desktop Linux folks can't just accept the obvious issues with desktop Linux. A practical, experienced Windows generally understands the obvious issues with Windows, like malware. There's no denying it and it's been a problem forever, plain and simple and obvious. A practical person would LOVE to solve this issue and others that Windows has and it's clear that for some folks the strengths of Linux work for them and that's awesome. Desktop Linux has it's share of issues but different ones from Windows.

This is all true. 3rd parties are the primary problem imo on both sides. My DD desktop and home server are both Linux. Crazy stable and does everything I need them to do and more. However my laptop and tablets are running windows and windows 10 is AMAZING at those tasks, despite all it's flaws and you couldn't pay me to put linux on my P51 laptop atm. Until 3rd parties have more incentive to change, this won't change at any faster of a pace than it is now. It IS changing, just slowly.

Until a 3rd party breaks the stranglehold MS office has on the enterprise world, and someone with serious money builds and supports a linux distro that can keep it's shit together and force driver cohesion I don't think Linux will become mainstream. Yes, it absolutely, even in it's current state, do what 99.9% of users need, it just isn't enough. Which sucks.
 

BulletDust

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I've been using Linux more seriously in the past year, with a dual boot machine and one dedicated Linux miner. I like Linux, but sometimes things that are dead simple on Windows turn into huge research projects on Linux. Case in point, I setup a new machine this weekend and I'm trying to use it on a 4K TV. In Windows, it takes 2 seconds to select 4K 60Hz and that's it. I spent all night trying to get 60Hz working (and eventually did) but ran into all sorts of issues. Open-source AMD driver not supporting HDMI 2.0. AMDGPU-Pro driver not available on Manjaro, causing the PC to not boot in latest Ubunutu, etc. In general, these issues don't really happen in Windows. I still want to make Linux work, but it's for sure more hassle than Windows and I wouldn't recommend it for non-expert PC users.

This is why I prefer the binary Nvidia drivers as they come with a proper X Server settings panel. You select 4k and your desired refresh rate and you're good to go, I've had 4k running on my main Linux machine many times running Nvidia hardware/drivers no problem.

What was your issue with getting Ubuntu running on your new rig? I've lost count of the number of times I've installed xbuntu on various setups and I've never once had an issue so it's got me intrigued?

Also, give Solus Linux a go - with three versions based on Budgie, Gnome or MATE it really is an awesome OS assuming it installs considering the issues you had installing Ubuntu. Willing to offer advice where needed.

If something fucks up in Windows, it's Microsoft's fault.
If something fucks up in Linux, it's the user's fault.

Well, when the user's trying an OS they're in no way used to or familiar with and it doesn't work identically to Windows - It stands to perfect reason that in many cases any issues experienced are the unintentional fault of the user. Take cyberreality's example, he was unfamiliar with the process required to get 4k running compared to Windows, he worked it out, next time he's faced with the same situation he'll have it running in no time.

Lack of familiarity plays a big part in solving issues when trying something new. That's not the fault of the OS as there's no prerequisite for Linux to behave identically to Windows, users crack the shits and start bagging out the OS - Quite often intentionally and Linux users respond as expected. I'm more than happy to assist anyone having issues in any way I can provided they act in a mature, friendly and open manner with no preconceptions or desires to simply take a dump on Linux.

It's the same reason many so called 'IT Techs' refuse to work on macOS based systems, a complete lack of familiarity coupled with a distinct lack of drive to learn anything new.

[EDIT] Thank you for your professional moderation Crosshairs, you have no idea just how appreciated it is.
 
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cybereality

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So I have 4K60 working in Ubuntu now. I think the issue was not just Linux but also my TV (or some combination). HDMI wouldn't work (as HDMI 2.0 isn't supported yet with open-source drivers, this I knew before) but it's supposed to work with a DisplayPort adapter. For me, it still wasn't working until I enabled UHD Color on my Samsung TV. This conflicted with another issue I have with my HDMI switch, it doesn't like UHD Color and results in a black screen (on Windows too, not Linux related). So I ended up plugging the Linux box direct to the TV with UHD Color and the Windows box to the switch and then to another port on the TV without UHD Color. Can't really fault Linux for this, as I have some strange hardware in the mix, but the switch I have does work on Windows, PS4, etc. at 4K.
 

BulletDust

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and you couldn't pay me to put linux on my P51 laptop atm.

Considering it looks like the P51 only runs Nvidia Quadro graphics (awesome laptop BTW), why wouldn't you consider running Linux on it assuming software compatibility wasn't an issue? It looks like the perfect device to run Linux on.

I use Linux on my own work laptop (no where near as good as your example) and it's bloody fantastic. I can connect to client's networks/transfer data between machines with literally no risk of infecting my own machine with viruses, malware and PUP's. Furthermore, it handles almost every file system ever implemented.
 

BulletDust

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So I have 4K60 working in Ubuntu now. I think the issue was not just Linux but also my TV (or some combination). HDMI wouldn't work (as HDMI 2.0 isn't supported yet with open-source drivers, this I knew before) but it's supposed to work with a DisplayPort adapter. For me, it still wasn't working until I enabled UHD Color on my Samsung TV. This conflicted with another issue I have with my HDMI switch, it doesn't like UHD Color and results in a black screen (on Windows too, not Linux related). So I ended up plugging the Linux box direct to the TV with UHD Color and the Windows box to the switch and then to another port on the TV without UHD Color. Can't really fault Linux for this, as I have some strange hardware in the mix, but the switch I have does work on Windows, PS4, etc. at 4K.

I'm really glad you mentioned this as I've only connected my Ubuntu MATE PC to a dedicated 4k monitor via DP, hence no issues. However, on my HT system I run a HDMI switcher on one of the inputs to my receiver as well as a HDMI splitter on the HDMI output from my receiver to split between the plasma and the projector - Which is bound to give me grief in a situation identical to your own.

Good job at quietly working through your issue with a positive attitude. (y)
 

KarsusTG

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Considering it looks like the P51 only runs Nvidia Quadro graphics (awesome laptop BTW), why wouldn't you consider running Linux on it assuming software compatibility wasn't an issue? It looks like the perfect device to run Linux on.

I use Linux on my own work laptop (no where near as good as your example) and it's bloody fantastic. I can connect to client's networks/transfer data between machines with literally no risk of infecting my own machine with viruses, malware and PUP's. Furthermore, it handles almost every file system ever implemented.

Quadro graphics work just fine on linux. It's all the little things, like the trackpad drivers suck, battery life goes down the drain on linux, and I can't run cad on linux side.
 

BulletDust

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Quadro graphics work just fine on linux. It's all the little things, like the trackpad drivers suck, battery life goes down the drain on linux, and I can't run cad on linux side.

You can tweak trackpad drivers under many distro's, I run kbuntu on my laptop and my trackpad works as well as it does on the many Mac's I work on - However, while the whole process is GUI based it did take me quite a bit of time to get things working exactly as I wanted them to.

Battery life you do have a point, nothing is going to beat Windows in that regard and I totally understand re your CAD software, however that's fairly specialized stuff - In such situations it's obvious many are going to resort to Windows out of necessity, however this is only really about 10% of the population and comes back to a market stranglehold as a result of years of ruthless Windows marketing as opposed to anything else. However, as evidenced by Adobe's recent demonstration of their own software running under Ubuntu, times are changing.
 
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naib

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Quadro graphics work just fine on linux. It's all the little things, like the trackpad drivers suck, battery life goes down the drain on linux, and I can't run cad on linux side.
What sort of cad? I have a Ubuntu box at work with a quadro card which is mainly used for large simulations of matlab,modelsim etc and is used for some design: mentor, NX,
 
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AltTabbins

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I’ve been using Ubuntu 17.10 on my main laptop since it’s release. It’s far and away the best home computing Linux experience I’ve had on any distribution. I run Linux at work for some things but they are very purpose focused distributions (like Oracle Linux). It’s weird how close I am to doing a complete switch over at home though. There are only two things that are keeping me somewhat tied to Windows and that is really weird because the last time I checked before now, it was a grocery store sized list. For me personally, Linux is getting better at about the same rate Windows 10 is getting worse.

I still have to attend Microsoft events and my work will always be a Microsoft house, but Linux gives us choice. We should applaud that instead of arguing over which is better.
 
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BulletDust

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I’ve been using Ubuntu 17.10 on my main laptop since it’s release. It’s far and away the best home computing Linux experience I’ve had on any distribution. I run Linux at work for some things but they are very purpose focused (like Oracle Linux). It’s weird how close I am to doing a complete switch over. There are only two things that are keeping me somewhat tied to Windows and that is really weird because the last time I checked before now, it was a grocery store sized list. For me personally, Linux is getting better at about the same rate Windows 10 is getting worse.

Totally agreed, this is the exact situation.

The only thing I miss under Linux now is BF4, which I can live with now that I never plan on running any EA game on my personal systems ever again - Pay to play is a model I'm totally opposed to, especially when it involves what is effectively gambling. Nothing pisses me off more than paying for Xbox Live, especially when I pay for to months and my daughter uses her Xbox all up for about a week in that Month - It's worse than gym memberships.
 

naib

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Totally agreed, this is the exact situation.

The only thing I miss under Linux now is BF4, which I can live with now that I never plan on running any EA game on my personal systems ever again - Pay to play is a model I'm totally opposed to, especially when it involves what is effectively gambling. Nothing pisses me off more than paying for Xbox Live, especially when I pay for to months and my daughter uses her Xbox all up for about a week in that Month - It's worse than gym memberships.
That was the hardest/annoying part when I was 50:50 dual booting... I was in a BF1942:DC clan and well... I was dual-booting for then at CSS. When BF2 etc came out I just drifted away and played Quake/UT instead (dire situation for linux gaming... not like now). While Battlefront would be cool, as a starwars fan, the lootboxes, the pay to win/pay to play model just doesn't agree with me.
 

BulletDust

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Shh.. You are revealing the true weakness of Linux, new hardware/features.

edit. bah didn't quote. was in reference to the 4K 60Hz comments.

VR's lagging a bit, that's about all.

Personally I see the fact that we have a struggling technology such as VR at all as a positive.
 

ManofGod

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*sigh* the usual "linux can't do this, linux can't do that" from the usual naysayers..

Look Heatlesssun, ManofGod... we get it... you prefer Windows, you are in a position where "linux doesn't work for me" good for you... Guess what for the local's of this subforum it does!. Someone has tried it and it does what they want. So how about you don't start fscking 2018 with your standard bullshit!

Look at the first post of this thread and get back to us. *Sigh* :rolleyes: Yep, I agree with Tiberian. And as you can see, I have yet to bash Linux and from what I could tell, this was not supposed to be a Windows bashing thread either but hey, guess that is cool, eh? :rolleyes: I would love to see an actual Linux thread capable of going on without Windows bashing but hey, I have yet to see that. (Please do not try to claim I started or instigated it, check the first post, thanks.)
 

ManofGod

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I've been using Linux more seriously in the past year, with a dual boot machine and one dedicated Linux miner. I like Linux, but sometimes things that are dead simple on Windows turn into huge research projects on Linux. Case in point, I setup a new machine this weekend and I'm trying to use it on a 4K TV. In Windows, it takes 2 seconds to select 4K 60Hz and that's it. I spent all night trying to get 60Hz working (and eventually did) but ran into all sorts of issues. Open-source AMD driver not supporting HDMI 2.0. AMDGPU-Pro driver not available on Manjaro, causing the PC to not boot in latest Ubunutu, etc. In general, these issues don't really happen in Windows. I still want to make Linux work, but it's for sure more hassle than Windows and I wouldn't recommend it for non-expert PC users.

So, what did you end up having to do to get it working at 4K 60hz? Inquiring minds want to know. :D :)
 

auntjemima

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Look at the first post of this thread and get back to us. *Sigh* :rolleyes: Yep, I agree with Tiberian. And as you can see, I have yet to bash Linux and from what I could tell, this was not supposed to be a Windows bashing thread either but hey, guess that is cool, eh? :rolleyes: I would love to see an actual Linux thread capable of going on without Windows bashing but hey, I have yet to see that. (Please do not try to claim I started of instigated it, check the first post, thanks.)

He's right you know. Someone will post about how great Linux is and the Linux crowds rushes them to congratulate, which makes sense, and secondly to say dumb shit like "way better than shit windows, eh!" And "of course it's awesome, it doesn't have garbage updates, malware, etc etc". Then when people respond to those attacks, BAM we are trolling.
 
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