I love Linux

auntjemima

Supreme [H]ardness
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Umm no. If you run your host on windows you compromise your whole system with all vulnerabilities known to man, including problems introduced by the Windows updater aka Microsoft itself. That's why the correct way is to run Windows as a guest.

Back when my work laptop was Windows based there was constantly problems and I had to tinker with Windows. After moving to OSX and virtualizing Windows, I no longer have to do anything except the specialized things that are Windows only, on Windows. I can easily snapshot windows when I test some software I expect to make registry changes and whatnot and roll back with 1 click if I detect a problem.

All data is also saved outside of Windows so rolling back won't cause a loss of data like it would if I used WIndows as a host and ran my apps on it.
Every time someone says to use Windows you guys interject with "I tried windows and everything I did messed up and it was constantly infected!!".

Maybe you guys just have no idea how to use it. Ever considered that?
 

Lunar

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 26, 2007
Messages
400
Every time someone says to use Windows you guys interject with "I tried windows and everything I did messed up and it was constantly infected!!".

Maybe you guys just have no idea how to use it. Ever considered that?
Yeah, I'm an avid Linux user who also uses Windows. Frankly, the constant drumbeat of "Windows has all the vulnerabilities ever, blah blah" is freaking tiresome. It's not true and it's alarmist. Does Windows have vulnerabilities? Sure, but the way it gets overblown by people is absolutely insane. Before switching to Linux a little under a year ago I ran Microsoft operating systems of some sort since 1988. Everything from DOS all the way to Windows 10. Daily. Know how many viruses or malware I've ever had to deal with on my own personal machine? Two. That's it. In almost 30 years, two. And both were pretty much self inflicted. One was due to using some software I shouldn't have that was being passed around, and the other was MSBlaster that was due to me not using any type of firewall protection. I had just gotten DSL, and didn't have a router yet.

Windows is fine to use as a daily driver as long as a reasonable amount of safe usage habits are employed. Same with any other damn operating system. Literally everything that is man made has flaws, be it software, cars, houses, EVERYTHING!!!! I'm so sick of people talking about Linux and Mac OS like they are the second coming. Yes I use Linux as my daily driver, but it wasn't because of vulnerabilities in Windows. It was mainly because I didn't like the telemetry BS, and because Windows was just boring. I missed the days of actually learning something again. Switching to Linux has scratched that itch to learn something new. Along the way that I found that I really enjoy the freedom aspect of FOSS as well.

You guys are so stuck up in your own biases that it's laughable. On both sides of the argument. Get over yourselves. We all have subjective experiences that are different. Windows isn't perfect, and neither is Linux. Does Linux do a lot of stuff better than Windows in my opinion? Absolutely. I can tell you that I have had Linux installed, updated, and ready to go on multiple computers before I'm even done installing drivers on a typical Windows installation. It's really absurd how long drivers + updates take on Windows. Also, installing software from repositories is much better than doing so manually package by package or using something like Ninite. Linux just does these things better. Now, that being said, yes Windows supports more hardware, and I still use it for games. Gaming on Linux just sucks. Framerates tend to be lower and less stable, the lack of games compared to Windows sucks, and Valve's seemingly total abandonment of their Linux initiative doesn't help either. Ikey and the Solus team shouldn't be the ones fixing Steam. Valve should, but at this point why do we expect Valve to actually do anything that isn't half-assed?

So, in conclusion, you're all wrong, and you're all right. The biggest problem with almost every point made in this thread and others like it are that they are ideologically based. Some members prefer the freedom of FOSS, and others want application compatibility of Windows. Both are fine frankly. They're also both fairly incompatible and dead end arguments. Each member has their own priorities, and no amount of bickering is going to change minds. So, can we all stop arguing over and over again when these discussions never get anywhere? It's frankly stupid and a waste of time. I mean come on. Who really gives a crap what OS somebody else is running? Especially if they didn't solicit opinions from others about that choice? Would you go up to somebody in person and tell them that they're stupid because they choose to drive X car because you like Y car? No, you wouldn't, and if you would then maybe you need to analyze aspects of your own behavior because you're kind of an ass.

EDIT: Correct spelling errors
 

ManofGod

[H]F Junkie
Joined
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Messages
11,936
Just for the record, it was Windows telemetry that made me switch to Linux. To each his own but personally, I find it intolerable. Some value their privacy and some don't. I'm glad we all have choices.
Yeah, but just how long am I expected to standby for pics and details? :D ;)
 

NoOther

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
6,468
Been running Ubuntu-MATE for about 6 months now and it's far exceeded my expectations. I love knowing that it's not calling home every 2 seconds. I love it's well thought out GUI. I love the power of it's CLI. It's not perfect but it's closer than the alternative. I suppose I should thank the steaming pile of shit called Windows 10 for finally making me get to know and appreciate Linux for what it is. MS can KMA. I'm vnever looking back.

btw, I'm in the process of building a Dually Linux system. Stand by for pics and details. :cool:
Glad to see you on board. Once you start getting more involved with Linux, you may want to start looking at doing a base Debian build and customize from there. A lot of the fun in Linux is being able to customize your experience and build only what you really want/need. Even the base builds often come with far more than what is necessary and learning to build your own version is quite informative. I remember the days when I first got into Linux and you had to compile your own kernel. Still have had to do that for a few projects these days.
 

octane

Weaksauce
Joined
Jun 10, 2017
Messages
94
Gaming on Linux just sucks. Framerates tend to be lower and less stable, the lack of games compared to Windows sucks, and Valve's seemingly total abandonment of their Linux initiative doesn't help either. Ikey and the Solus team shouldn't be the ones fixing Steam. Valve should, but at this point why do we expect Valve to actually do anything that isn't half-assed?
Oh i love my gaming under Lnux it doesn't benifit anyone for one company to monopolize PC gaming and supporting Linux gaming is good for all. Solius aren't really fixing Steam, there integrating Steam more into Solus. The latest update to Steam fixed a number of issues including the placing of icons on the desktop and providing Shader Pre-Cahing.

How do I add pics using the [H]OCP method?
 

auntjemima

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
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Messages
6,149
Oh i love my gaming under Lnux it doesn't benifit anyone for one company to monopolize PC gaming and supporting Linux gaming is good for all. Solius aren't really fixing Steam, there integrating Steam more into Solus. The latest update to Steam fixed a number of issues including the placing of icons on the desktop and providing Shader Pre-Cahing.

How do I add pics using the [H]OCP method?
At the bottom where the quick reply is, click the Upload a File button. Simple as that.
 
D

Deleted member 245375

Guest
How do I add pics using the [H]OCP method?
With the new forum software, create a post and then simply drag and drop images onto the browser window showing the post, it'll then ask if you want to attach them as thumbnails (clickable) or full-size.

Pretty neat little addition that most don't realize and I had to find out haphazardly about myself months later, was still using links from image hosting sites till Kyle called me out one time and I finally figured this new method out. :D

<and yes you can click the Upload a File button too... drag and drop is somewhat easier, and you can then drag them around the preview window if necessary for ordering>
 

Deadjasper

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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Messages
1,806
LOL, I'm waiting on the final part to arrive, a 16gb DDR3 ECC RDIMM. It's late but I'm gonna wait so I can diag all the parts before assembly begins. It should arrive tomorrow. :)
 

octane

Weaksauce
Joined
Jun 10, 2017
Messages
94
With the new forum software, create a post and then simply drag and drop images onto the browser window showing the post, it'll then ask if you want to attach them as thumbnails (clickable) or full-size.

Pretty neat little addition that most don't realize and I had to find out haphazardly about myself months later, was still using links from image hosting sites till Kyle called me out one time and I finally figured this new method out. :D

<and yes you can click the Upload a File button too... drag and drop is somewhat easier, and you can then drag them around the preview window if necessary for ordering>
I cannot believe it was that simple. I was trying everything. Thanks. :)
 

heatlesssun

Extremely [H]
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
44,154
Oh i love my gaming under Lnux it doesn't benifit anyone for one company to monopolize PC gaming and supporting Linux gaming is good for all. Solius aren't really fixing Steam, there integrating Steam more into Solus. The latest update to Steam fixed a number of issues including the placing of icons on the desktop and providing Shader Pre-Cahing.
It's not a simple matter of a monopoly concerning PC gaming. There's just so many more Windows users and the 3rd party gaming support is infinitely better compared to Linux and macOS. And its pretty hard to support Linux gaming when the games aren't there. I know there are thousands of Linux games out on there on Steam and other sources. There's many more thousands for Windows including not only AAA titles but an increasing number of indie titles that aren't making it to Linux. If a person buys PC gaming hardware to play games, the normal expectation is they'll be able to play whatever PC game they want and that's where Linux will be frustrating to people are more interested in gaming than the OS. Now if just playing whatever games are available on Linux suits a person, cool.
 

infinity9

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 21, 2003
Messages
204
An average user wouldn't be able to update windows drivers either. So as long as linux isn't being offered as out of the box experience it will be 'hard to use'. Just as it would be if people were stuck with windows install media and told to install their own.
Yes they will. Windows will boot without a proper video driver and they are all simple executable. Also windows 10 installs almost ALL drivers through windows update now so they wouldn't even need to worry about that.
 

infinity9

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 21, 2003
Messages
204
Just for the record, it was Windows telemetry that made me switch to Linux. To each his own but personally, I find it intolerable. Some value their privacy and some don't. I'm glad we all have choices.
Although I agree about privacy, you will likely need to stop using technology if you are worried about privacy as almost all connected devices share information, even fridges.
 

Auburn_Tigers

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 16, 2013
Messages
421
So tired of these bottom shelf Linux users thinking they are something special because they use Linux.
Linux was going to take over the world 25 years ago. So, tell me how that worked out for everyone?
REDHAT was going the best thing since Kool-Aid, and how did that work out for you all?
Linux is always best used, behind the scene. Always in the shadow of windows. I've not ran
a virus program in 15 years. Stay off torrents and porn, and you will be okay.
 

cybereality

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
5,648
How do I add pics using the [H]OCP method?
You can actually just copy and paste from a paint program. So just make a selection, Control + C, then click inside the text area on the forum and press Control + V.
 

octane

Weaksauce
Joined
Jun 10, 2017
Messages
94
You can actually just copy and paste from a paint program. So just make a selection, Control + C, then click inside the text area on the forum and press Control + V.
I've got it, thank you al for your assistance.

I thought this was a Linux based thread with no WIndows bashing. I havnt been here long and I love Linux yet there still seems to be alot of Windows basing going on even after te Moderator said no Windows bashing.
 

auntjemima

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Messages
6,149
I've got it, thank you al for your assistance.

I thought this was a Linux based thread with no WIndows bashing. I havnt been here long and I love Linux yet there still seems to be alot of Windows basing going on even after te Moderator said no Windows bashing.
The moderator said no Linux bashing. Windows bashing is free reign around here.
 

auntjemima

Supreme [H]ardness
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I must be reading a differnt thread to the one your reading. ;)
It's the same, I assure you. Yes, Bullet got a week ban, but it's not because of his Windows bashing but his shit attitude towards everything.

Check the same administrators post half way down page 1. We were all told to stop Linux bashing, as we always are in this forum.
 

octane

Weaksauce
Joined
Jun 10, 2017
Messages
94
Check the same administrators post half way down page 1. We were all told to stop Linux bashing, as we always are in this forum.
Im not going to get to involved in this as im fairly new around here. But the Linux bashing hasnt stopped and i did not see any problem with bullets postings compred to anyone elses.

Strange, I was lookng forward to some frendly Linux talk. :)
 

B00nie

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
8,342
Yes they will. Windows will boot without a proper video driver and they are all simple executable. Also windows 10 installs almost ALL drivers through windows update now so they wouldn't even need to worry about that.
Linux will boot also without a proper video driver and it has offered the proprietary drivers for install far longer than Windows has. The problems arise when the user applies the wrong methods he has learned with Windows and tries that on linux. Things will break.
 

B00nie

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
8,342
So tired of these bottom shelf Linux users thinking they are something special because they use Linux.
Linux was going to take over the world 25 years ago. So, tell me how that worked out for everyone?
REDHAT was going the best thing since Kool-Aid, and how did that work out for you all?
Linux is always best used, behind the scene. Always in the shadow of windows. I've not ran
a virus program in 15 years. Stay off torrents and porn, and you will be okay.
So what, cut 95% of your computer use and you're going to be okay? I guess that's a solution too :D
 

Deadjasper

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 28, 2001
Messages
1,806
Although I agree about privacy, you will likely need to stop using technology if you are worried about privacy as almost all connected devices share information, even fridges.
It isn't information sharing that bother me it's WHAT information and for WHAT purpose. This should be obvious.
 

heatlesssun

Extremely [H]
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
44,154
Linux will boot also without a proper video driver and it has offered the proprietary drivers for install far longer than Windows has. The problems arise when the user applies the wrong methods he has learned with Windows and tries that on linux. Things will break.
Thing is the average Windows user even in advanced situations never learned any methods for installing drivers much beyond installing and uninstalling.
 

NoOther

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Messages
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It's not a simple matter of a monopoly concerning PC gaming. There's just so many more Windows users and the 3rd party gaming support is infinitely better compared to Linux and macOS. And its pretty hard to support Linux gaming when the games aren't there. I know there are thousands of Linux games out on there on Steam and other sources. There's many more thousands for Windows including not only AAA titles but an increasing number of indie titles that aren't making it to Linux. If a person buys PC gaming hardware to play games, the normal expectation is they'll be able to play whatever PC game they want and that's where Linux will be frustrating to people are more interested in gaming than the OS. Now if just playing whatever games are available on Linux suits a person, cool.
I disagree with most of this statement. There are many reasons to support gaming on Linux, primarily for competition and options. Just like it is important to support Linux as a platform. Not all games on Linux are poor, the problem is more the porting of games to Linux that were not designed for it. That is no fault of Linux. I think it is important for people to support gaming on Linux and drive it forward, if for no other reason, it may help stop all the crappy coding companies are doing for games on Windows.
 

heatlesssun

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I disagree with most of this statement. There are many reasons to support gaming on Linux, primarily for competition and options. Just like it is important to support Linux as a platform. Not all games on Linux are poor, the problem is more the porting of games to Linux that were not designed for it. That is no fault of Linux. I think it is important for people to support gaming on Linux and drive it forward, if for no other reason, it may help stop all the crappy coding companies are doing for games on Windows.
The problem is simply a practical one for a person who is more interested in playing games than the OS it runs one which is irrelevant when it comes to games people want to play. The #1 problem even for people who would like to support Linux desktop gaming is the lack of content. Pick a game at random, even indie games, you'll be getting for Windows if you want to play it. So you go through the process of setting up a Linux system to some games there, then another system to play Windows only stuff and it could have all been done under Windows. People will talk about driver and update issues under Windows but then expect that a typical person who simply wants to play games is going to deal with two different desktop OSes just to support Linux thus increasing complexity because it's good for whom?

Going through the process of setting Steam VR on Linux last summer. Yeah I get that that's super niche but it also reminded me of why for all of its problems people still use Windows. And that goes both ways, there are things that are much easier under Linux. If someone wants like of desktop customizations and configurability, I'm not going to go and say that's great on Windows. It's not. Use Linux.
 

IdiotInCharge

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 13, 2003
Messages
14,312
Damnit I'm going to have a to figure out how to get Steam running on Linux...

The Ubuntu Solus Budgie image I installed doesn't let it start, even after installation, and CPU-Z doesn't work either. Thinking I should wipe for Ubuntu MATE.

*got my distros and DEs confused... I think!
 

NoOther

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The problem is simply a practical one for a person who is more interested in playing games than the OS it runs one which is irrelevant when it comes to games people want to play. The #1 problem even for people who would like to support Linux desktop gaming is the lack of content. Pick a game at random, even indie games, you'll be getting for Windows if you want to play it. So you go through the process of setting up a Linux system to some games there, then another system to play Windows only stuff and it could have all been done under Windows. People will talk about driver and update issues under Windows but then expect that a typical person who simply wants to play games is going to deal with two different desktop OSes just to support Linux thus increasing complexity because it's good for whom?
So we should always just use Windows so there will never be a push to have more content on Linux? I don't ascribe to that at all. The push for gaming on PCs started with rebels who wanted to play games on their business purpose systems. If they ascribed to your ideology, they would have just stuck to consoles and we may have never seen the growth in gaming that we have had over the last few decades. Not only that, there would have been no reason for people to go out and try the Playstation instead of the Nintendo when it came out, or for people to try the Nintendo instead of the Atari, and on and on.

Going through the process of setting Steam VR on Linux last summer. Yeah I get that that's super niche but it also reminded me of why for all of its problems people still use Windows. And that goes both ways, there are things that are much easier under Linux. If someone wants like of desktop customizations and configurability, I'm not going to go and say that's great on Windows. It's not. Use Linux.
You keep going to VR, but it is such a miniscule niche market that it really has no impact at the moment. And then you talk about the advantages of Linux customization and configuration, why shouldn't someone want all that and be able to game? Why stick to something that is more constricted just to play games. Why not implore more companies to write games for a system that is far more customizeable and has a lot more built in tools for development?
 

IdiotInCharge

[H]F Junkie
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Also, how are the latest AMD drivers on Linux?

I have a 32" 4k60 HDR Freesync panel that I picked up (new, cheap, somehow) between the holidays that is alright, it's an IPS panel with lots of back-light-bleed commensurate with its bargain price but is otherwise fine, and I'm wondering if I shouldn't see if I can swap the old GTX970 that's in there now for a contemporary AMD part for Freesync and 10bit support, supposing those are worth exploring on Linux.
 

NoOther

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Damnit I'm going to have a to figure out how to get Steam running on Linux...

The Ubuntu Solus image I installed doesn't let it start, even after installation, and CPU-Z doesn't work either. Thinking I should wipe for Ubuntu MATE.
That is a long road, I have had a number of problems getting Steam to work properly on various Linux images. It seems to be Steam's inability to detect the video card properly, apparently it can only detect it using specific setups and drivers. There is a decent Wiki on it though with some tips and also a straight how to with the steps included (mainly adding 32-bit libraries for it).
 

IdiotInCharge

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For quick question- I'm not partial to a particular DE (yet!), and I'm virtualizing CentOS 7 and Solaris 11 more than I'm using the base OS, for now- so if I were to pick a distro and DE that would be most favorable for Steam, what route might I take, from those with experience doing so?


[I'm going to assume that SteamOS might be the best way, but that might also be a bridge too far in terms of supporting the purpose of the system in the first place, which is to learn Linux on metal]
 

NoOther

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Messages
6,468
For quick question- I'm not partial to a particular DE (yet!), and I'm virtualizing CentOS 7 and Solaris 11 more than I'm using the base OS, for now- so if I were to pick a distro and DE that would be most favorable for Steam, what route might I take, from those with experience doing so?


[I'm going to assume that SteamOS might be the best way, but that might also be a bridge too far in terms of supporting the purpose of the system in the first place, which is to learn Linux on metal]
I think most people are using some version of Ubuntu for it or Mint, both are ports of Debian. Personally I use Debian Jessie with KDE Plasma, then modify from there. The important thing is to get the video drivers right, then do the fixes to get Steam working. Nvidia or AMD.

My particular method is to install Debian with no GUI, then fix the driver issue, then install KDE Plasma.
 

heatlesssun

Extremely [H]
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Messages
44,154
So we should always just use Windows so there will never be a push to have more content on Linux? I don't ascribe to that at all. The push for gaming on PCs started with rebels who wanted to play games on their business purpose systems. If they ascribed to your ideology, they would have just stuck to consoles and we may have never seen the growth in gaming that we have had over the last few decades. Not only that, there would have been no reason for people to go out and try the Playstation instead of the Nintendo when it came out, or for people to try the Nintendo instead of the Atari, and on and on.
A major theme of Linux fans is how much easier or better it is than Windows such as updates. It's not that anyone should do anything, it's a matter of practicality.

You keep going to VR, but it is such a miniscule niche market that it really has no impact at the moment. And then you talk about the advantages of Linux customization and configuration, why shouldn't someone want all that and be able to game? Why stick to something that is more constricted just to play games. Why not implore more companies to write games for a system that is far more customizeable and has a lot more built in tools for development?
And I get that, though VR seems to be close in terms of numbers in PC gaming as Linux. I was just noting just how much better the experience is under Windows and that's a general them in gaming across the board.
 

NoOther

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A major theme of Linux fans is how much easier or better it is than Windows such as updates. It's not that anyone should do anything, it's a matter of practicality.
Yet PC gaming started out from impracticality. It still is more impractical then console gaming. And one of the main reasons to play PC games is for more customization and options. Something that Linux is well known for. Why shouldn't the two be intertwined more today? Your argument of practicality and ease of use falls flat, because everything starts out that way until you design something to make it more practical. If people like Linux better for all it offers, than it only makes sense for them to put more pressure on companies to make games for it so they don't have to have separate systems.

And I get that, though VR seems to be close in terms of numbers in PC gaming as Linux. I was just noting just how much better the experience is under Windows and that's a general them in gaming across the board.
But you use it in just about every argument these days of Windows vs Linux. It is a tired, old argument. And it still follows the same flawed logic. Just because something currently works better on a different platform, doesn't mean you should give up on developing for that platform.
 
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