I love Linux

Discussion in 'Linux/BSD/Free Systems' started by Deadjasper, Dec 31, 2017.

  1. ChadD

    ChadD 2[H]4U

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    I like that one.

    Windows is the crossover of the computing world. It tries to appeal to everyone and does nothing all that well.

    I'll give it to heatle and the other MS employees though, if you are not a PC person generic windows out of the box does do the basics with the least amount of fuss.

    Linux and BSD as well for that matter are for people willing to trick things out. If you want to put together a custom render farm for a VFX studio... your going to use Linux >.< I see this thread has brought up Maya and photoshop again and yes plenty of front line work is still done on windows stations cause Adobe is annoyingly bought and paid for. Really though Full pro Maya runs very well on Linux setups, as do other pro VFX stuff like Houdine and the other sidefx stuff.

    MS does make a fine little cross over for the masses. Still no self respecting car person is going to brag about their crappy mid range cross over... I don't understand why any self respecting nerds wouldbragging about their windows setups either.

    Linux has no shortage of high end paid software. The one and only acception that would be nice to see official support for is Photoshop. Not that setting up a windows workstation for photoshop is all that big a deal either. So the 2d paint artists run a windows station... its not nearly the PITA it used to be.
     
  2. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    ...And Shadow of Mordor is running pretty well!
     
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  3. Mr. Baz

    Mr. Baz 2[H]4U

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    Windows is the crossover of the computing world? It does nothing well? How long have you even been using computers?

    I like how you make it seem as though photography is the only area of industry that is stuck with Windows.....:confused:

    There are MANY areas of industry that cannot switch over to Linux yet because of software availability.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
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  4. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    Photographers use macs not windows. I'm constantly amazed by the amount of people who choose to expose themselves to the risks and losses of productivity caused by use of Windows at work.
     
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  5. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Lovely, another thread about how Windows sucks and Linux is everything. :D Amazing how a Linux thread cannot stand on it's own but must be compared to Windows or Windows needs to be bashed in order for Linux to appear good. :D LOL!
     
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  6. Deadjasper

    Deadjasper [H]ard|Gawd

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    One strange thing I've noticed. Network discovery in Ubuntu-Mate sucks but in Mint-MATE it's very reliable and always shows what's out there. This is using Caja in both. Mint is looking better every day. :cool:
     
  7. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Strange thing is, why should one suck and the other not, since they are essentially the same thing?
     
  8. Deadjasper

    Deadjasper [H]ard|Gawd

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    I have no idea but it is what it is.
     
  9. ChadD

    ChadD 2[H]4U

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    Because they are not the same thing. Mint uses the ubuntu base that doesn't make it the same thing.

    Although most of Mints development is aimed at Cinnamon, they do develop their own driver application as well as specific domain blockers and VPN config tools. They have actually done a lot of work in the etc/host stuffs which is likely why deadjasper has noticed a difference with his specific setup. (not sure exactly what specific is different in his setup that mint is doing a better job with in his case. Still point is there are differences in Mint/Ubuntu mates net stuffs)
     
  10. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    LOL! I get not liking Windows but inane statements like this that fly in the face of reality are just that. ChadD used to talk a lot about a Photoshop alternative called Affinity Photo that's become popular over the last few years as a low-cost permanent license cost replacement for Photoshop CC subscriptions. It started out as macOS only. One of top requests the developers got was for a Windows version and they responded. It's even sold in the Microsoft Store.
     
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  11. ChadD

    ChadD 2[H]4U

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    I would return with the exact same question. How is windows not the crossover of computing. That is exactly what they are going for. One OS to do everything. 10 different skues (exaggerating slightly I know) with the only differences being artificial feature lockouts and store hooks.

    Yes I 100% stand by my first post. Windows does nothing best in class. It does most everything decently. And as we we where talking about Maya/Photoshop and other artistic VFX software ya... windows is used by 99% of such companies in a workstation capacity at most. Their NAS setups are running BSD. Their servers are running Linux, Render farms are running linux. Of course many such studios have a mix of Windows workstations... but the days of 100% MS houses have been gone a long time. Windows is used these days where its use is forced. Yes photoshop is one piece of software that still sells high end windows workstations.

    Of course the same can be said of Apple... but OSx is a far better OS then windows. Apple makes unix for the masses and it works quite well. Other then upfront cost I can't think of very many reasons average people shouldn't be running Macs over Windows. You see macs in many of those pro GFX studios as well, particularity in pro sound production.

    And to answer since you asked first PC was a Vic20.
     
  12. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    Funny how you would say this while talking about the artificial restrictions of Windows. mscOS is so great it can't be installed without hacks and unsupported by Apple on any non-Apple hardware.
     
  13. ChadD

    ChadD 2[H]4U

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    Software companies don't much care what OS their software runs on no. Why should the Affinity pro guys care... that said. You do see a lot of pro shops running macs and affinity. You also see a lot of macs being used in sound recording and processing studios. Apple even went out of their way buying the company that made Logic audio so they could offer a low cost high end DAW. Logic pro sells a ton of macs. Its also why every major DAW company goes well out of their way to support MAC. (in general every DAW runs best on a mac). (windows ASIO low latency drivers are shit >.< compared to Mac core audio... which is why very few major sound studios use Windows machines.)

    Yes every popular software is going to have a windows version. That isn't shocking. Most open source software gets compiled for windows as well. If I write software why would I want to restrict who can use it. That hardly has anything to do with how their base OS works.... and windows is a mess.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
  14. ChadD

    ChadD 2[H]4U

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    Why would I be worried about installing osx on non-apple hardware. Yes Apples OS is intended for their own hardware. I'm talking about the OS not the install process. Macs have a reputation for being easier to use for a reason. (also not trying to create a Apple tangent here lol... yes mainstream OS wise OSx is superior my opinion you don't have to agree)

    When I talk about artificial restrictions in windows I am talking about their laughable SKUed setup... where they disable a few policies and call it "pro".
     
  15. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    A commercial software company selling native client software isn't going to go through the trouble of developing for platforms that it doesn't view as profitable. There are no native Linux versions of Affinity clients and looking at their support forums they currently have no plans of developing any.
     
  16. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    It's just doesn't make sense to call macOS a wonderful desktop OS when it's not support on the overwhelming majority of desktop class devices. macOS has no value to anyone not using Apple hardware.
     
  17. James21

    James21 Limp Gawd

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    Many photographers and people in the graphics design business use Macs because of the lock in they are stuck with.
    So they pay way over the going rate for hugely substandard specifications on their system.
    The Apple OS while nice, is hard locked (without tons of work) to Apple's own low end hardware.

    All is fine right up till you have to do a complicated 3D render or animation in a compressed time frame & a PC workstation that costs half as much can do the job in less than half the time.

    I probably would not try to use Apple based OS and hardware options when talking anything about "artificial restrictions" in regards to windows.
    The Apple OS (without a lot of work), will not run on anything other than an extremely limited set of low end (for the price) hardware at huge prices that is sold by Apple.
    Saying Apple is easier to use is a bit of a laugh because of course when you have basically no choice it's "easy to use", You could say the same thing about Windows 10 RT locked to a Microsoft ARM surface.
     
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  18. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    Bingo.
     
  19. Frobozz

    Frobozz [H]ard|Gawd

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  20. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    Cool. I think the typical person loves their hardware and software a lot more. These are the things that cost the money beyond basic uses on cheap hardware. In this place, the overwhelming majority are using whatever OSes support their needs and wants. I could love Linux all day long, it simply doesn't support my needs and wants and obviously others have different needs and wants.
     
  21. Frobozz

    Frobozz [H]ard|Gawd

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    That's a bummer.
     
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  22. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    What's a much bigger bummer is not being able to use like any of the stuff I paid for. So yeah "Fuck desktop Linux". Desktop Linux has its problems, if it were as great as some of you say we'd all be using it. It's just funny to me that something that's like totally obivous becomes such a big damned deal with so much bullshit attached to it that "Fuck desktop Linux" seems to mean anything to anyone. "Fuck desktop Windows." I just want to use my PCs for what I paid for is all.
     
  23. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    Macs are expensive, yes. But when you take into account the hours saved not troubleshooting Windows related problems, waiting for windows updates at the most inconvenient times and/or purging the system of malware and viruses, it's very cost effective for a company to pay extra for macs. Not to mention the user satisfaction which keeps work morale higher.

    Many times when I have meetings with our customers they place envying looks at my MBP and some even say they wish their company would buy them macs too. Without exception, users hate their windows computers.
     
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  24. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    You can keep playing your games and using your whatever software that's stupidly locked to a single OS. We know, we don't care and we'd appreciate if you'd stop trolling and repeating the same mantra over and over in the linux forums.
     
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  25. Mr. Baz

    Mr. Baz 2[H]4U

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    Good Lord, I did not know there were so many trolls in this thread lacking sensical ability to rationalize scenarios outside their small circle. Not worth talking with a person with no ability to reason or that don't have actual relevant experience. I'm out! :facepalm::facepalm:
     
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  26. Frobozz

    Frobozz [H]ard|Gawd

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    You bought hardware/software that's supported or better supported on Windows. To do what you want, you should probably use Windows.
     
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  27. James21

    James21 Limp Gawd

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    You are correct on many fronts about the ease of use for macs & for the average user them having way less issues with the OS.
    The systems that I have to use windows on (both 7 and 10) regularly have me loudly exclaiming expletives at Microsoft, mostly over the horrendous slow as anything update system in Windows 7, or the Slow, intrusive and system hijacking update system in windows 10.
    However the ease of use does come in a great deal from rigid control of what hardware you have and what programs run, as well as Apple's focus not so much on the best hardware, but on a smooth user experience for your average user who doesn't push the boundaries.

    Macs are very underpowered for the cost & even if you spend a huge amount of money get nowhere near the processing power for high end jobs that PCs can muster for high end render jobs. (for many people this doesn't matter at all as they will never need that processing power).
    Gaming on the Mac is also very limited due to the low performing and limited video card options on all the latest units, along with the lack of native games.
    Now if Apple was to licence the Mac OS to run on a wide variety of non Apple hardware, they would probably rocket up in OS share pretty quickly. However they won't do that anytime soon.
    As far as not getting malware etc, it's a bit because of better OS design, but also a lot because of low market share making exploits not profitable to make.
    If Mac OS was to hit a 50% market share, the security and exploit market would probably look a fair bit different, it's hard to say.
     
  28. Frobozz

    Frobozz [H]ard|Gawd

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    To be honest, they're really not too far off in a lot of cases if you're buying an equivalent device. (ex. comparing AIO to AIO as opposed to an AIO against a tower)
    Example:
    $2k iMac
    3.5Ghz 7th gen i7
    8GB ram
    1TB Fusion drive
    Radeon Pro 575 / 4GB ram
    27" 5k 5120 x 2800 Display
    All-in-one form factor

    $1950 Dell 7450 AIO
    7th gen i7 7600
    8GB ram
    1TB spinny disk + M.2 Optane 16GB
    Radeon R7 M465X / 2GB ram
    23" 4k + touch panel
    All-in-one form factor

    $1550 Dell XPS 7760 (v1)
    7th gen i5-7400
    8GB ram
    1TB spinny + 32GB M.2 SATA SSD Cache
    Intel HD Graphics
    27" 4k Non-touch

    The XPS line really sucks on customization.. However, on both you're deficient on screen resolution and video card.
    Raising the price point and evening specs-

    $2950 XPS 7760
    7th Gen i7-7700
    16GB Ram
    512 GB PCIe SSD
    AMD RX570 8GB
    27" 4K + touch

    $2700 iMac
    4.2Ghz i7
    16GB Ram
    512GB SSD
    Radeon Pro 580 8GB
    27" 5k 5120 x 2800 display

    Higher resolution monitor w/ better graphics.

    So overall, I would say they're fairly priced. Admittedly I did not do this exercise across their entire product line. I wouldn't be surprised if some aging designs like the MB Air start to look a little funny.
     
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  29. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    Apple has thunderbolt to expand the graphics capabilities. Remember that the cost is a non issue in corporate world. If the gear improves efficiency by 2-5% the hardware can cost a lot.
     
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  30. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Which is available for other systems, so...?
     
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  31. ChadD

    ChadD 2[H]4U

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    I know the windows boosters love coming around to our Linux threads and shout Photoshop Photoshop Photoshop... MICROSFT INK. As often and as loudly as possible. It really is annoying. Agreed.
     
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  32. ChadD

    ChadD 2[H]4U

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    I agree with most of what you posted. Ya MacOS isn't perfect and Mac hardware sure its selected to be stable and turn a profit more then to impress. No doubt. Of course average computer users don't need this months latest greatest processor all the time... they are not rendering stuff and as hard as it is to believe around a place like [H] to most people gaming on a computer often = facebook games. lol

    On the security front though... the not widely used thing is mostly complete and utter crap recited by MS employees over the years so often most people just believe it.

    The truth is OSX is a nix OS... just like Linux BSD Android ChromeOS. So basically EVERY OS in the world other then windows. For the most part they share the same handful of vulnerabilities... and they are HUGE targets. I am not just talking about Android either. Every cloud, every large server, data farm is running some form of nix. They are massive targets for the real criminal types. They tend to be more secure in general because nix has far better security baked in. Windows is a mess frankly that allows users to access kernel memory all the time ect ect... its one of the major reasons huge data farms don't run windows anymore. Yes MS has improved windows security a lot over the years... but by design it will never match a nix OS. And yes before heatle or someone else pipes in... of course the user behind the keyboard is always the weak spot, still not allowing user accounts access to core systems negates a lot of the damage you can do by compromising one low access user account.
     
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  33. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    The thing is that you just said in this thread that Windows does nothing well. Then when people point out things it does well where Linux and macOS suck then there's just all of this nonsense coming from folks like you. I'm more than happy, able and willing to run Linux full time on all of my desktop class devices if does everything I want and need without the problems of Windows with introducing other problems.

    I have no idea why people want to make it out more than that. Most people would be very happy with something on their PCs that does everything better than Windows, like me.
     
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  34. ChadD

    ChadD 2[H]4U

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    Just stop BSing... you don't wanna run Linux you have no intention to run linux and according you there is no reason for you to run Linux. So please STOP trying its not for you.

    People in the Linux threads have went around with you for how long now. I use Linux every single day. I have clients that use it ever single day... they and I do things with Linux that windows either doesn't do at all or sucks so bad at its not even worth talking about.

    Stick with windows and stop pretending like you wanna love Linux when everyone that has ever read anything you have ever typed on the subject knows otherwise. Your fooling no one. However let me know if it helps you get your check from MS I can post pretending that you have swayed me.
     
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  35. cybereality

    cybereality [H]ardness Supreme

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    I was the one that brought up Photoshop, not because I was trying to say that Windows is better but because I'm honestly trying to switch to using Linux (as much as I can) and it pains me to go to another machine (or reboot in a dual boot config) because the app I need doesn't have a Linux version.

    Granted, I don't think I would run Linux on all my computers, pretty much because of PC gaming, but I do believe Linux can be competitive in many areas with the right software.
     
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  36. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    You preach about how Windows does nothing well and the moment that someone mentions things that it does do well like VR they must be a Microsoft employee. Now that's BS.
     
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  37. ChadD

    ChadD 2[H]4U

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    There is a legit conversation about specific software packages and lack or proper Linux versions. Didn't mean to say you where attacking Linux yourself. There is however a number of specific software packages that induce very pavlovian responses from some Linux detractors in these parts. (no matter how much some of them claim to always be attempting to "install" Linux so they can love it) Photoshop is one of those... and I agree I would love to see Adobe support it and it boggles my mind that they don't as I have been in multi million dollar VFX shops helping them with Linuxy stuff and see that they are forced to run windows or mac workstations often for no other reason. (all their real expensive software is 100% Linux first).

    Support is getting better... in Adobes case it seems like they are more jazzed about moving everyone toward their cloud offerings then taking care of their larger clients. Its why as Heatle pointed out I talked about Affinity for awhile. I do have clients that jumped on that for their macs, as much as they love Photoshop Adobe also drives them insane.
     
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  38. ChadD

    ChadD 2[H]4U

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    hahaha

    Damn you are so predictable. I just lost a 5 dollar bet. I said you would wait for 7 or 8 hours till you assumed I was in bed for the VR post. I loose.
     
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  39. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    You're a WAY better Linux ambassador than most around here.
     
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  40. Frobozz

    Frobozz [H]ard|Gawd

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    You might keep an eye on the WineDB entry for Photoshop CC2018, or periodically give it a try throughout the year. It currently has Silver and Gold reports.

    There's also been some positive stories reported on Reddit.
    ex.thread - Photoshop CC2018 on OpenSuse
    thread - CC install script

    url].png

    Not as good as a directly supported product, but maybe it'll reach good enough status.

    edit: just noting that it is not my picture, and I haven't tried it.