HP LP2475w (Possible new IPS)

Skakruk said:
My biggest issue with this thing is it's piss poor black level. I thought IPS was supposed to have OK black levels?
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Before H-IPS, IPS panels were considered weak in terms of their black levels. Only recently are IPS displays now able to compete with P/MVA panels in this regard. With absolutely zero ambient lighting, with the exception of a few high end television sets (and even then, asking for bezel black is a tall order), you will almost always be disappointed by the black levels of an LCD screen. It's a limitation of the technology.

I for one consider the black level of the LP2475w to be quite outstanding.
 
MaZa said:
Why reduced contrast? According to tests by Prad, default contrast at 80 provides the best picture. Reducing it doesnt really help black depth much either (brightness does as it controls backlight strength) but it does damage whites. I can see all the black boxes at Lagom test. Though I have hardware calibrated mine so probaply thats why.
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The default 80 contrast caused significant RTC artifact. For example, scrolling down a credit card statement with alternating white and gray lines made the area green. The same thing occured when scrolling normal text to some extend. Even at 65 contrast, inverse ghosting was still visible on my LP2475w. Only when I turned it down 33, it went away - but that's too dark for everyday use.
 
MaZa said:
Remember, if you are used to CRTs, LCD black depth will always dissapoint in darkened room as it has a slight grey tone, blame the backlight used in nowaday LCD technology. Afterall, in CRTs your black depth is virtually 0, it doesnt emit any light in the black spots. Perfect black.
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It's not the backlight persay, just that it's always on and the pixels try to block it to display black. Some of the light is going to leak though resulting in a bluish or grey glow getting through.
 
Sounds like you either have a bum panel or impossibly high expectations. Is this your first LCD experience coming from CRT? (I see you answered this in a recent edit)

When you talk about it being "never uniform on a black screen", are you referring to the white glow inherent to H-IPS w/o a A-TW polarizer? Or is it something else?

EDIT: As far as my issues are concerned, I foresee an OS reinstall in my very near future. I had a hunch that the Vista x64 Color Management was being hinky, so I loaded up my old Samsung 226BW profile. Made it the system default, etc. Rebooted. Nuthin'. Didn't change the PQ one bit. In other words, for whatever reason, my Vista Color Management is having zero effect on the unit. This wasn't the case when I first bought the monitor nearly a month ago, but I believe my Vista install has been in a steady state of decline these last few weeks ...... Color Management is fugged, the HP drivers aren't installing properly, nearly 13% of the 35Gb partition is perma-fragmented. Who know's what else? Something is amiss.
 
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Something of interest, for those using the thread as a reference: The dreaded green/pink left to right tinting issue. Turns out my display DOES have it (refurb REV GIG143 w/ 068 firmware). It wasn't apparent during the first 10 or so hours of backlight operation, but it become more and more obvious as I closed in on 100. Now I'm sitting around 383 (I leave it on overnight running the Windows Energy screensaver, also helping to "burn in" my GTX 285 to get rid of the capacitor whine) and the tint has definitely improved (meaning, it's less visible on fullscreen pure white). The "green" on the far left is still somewhat noticeable, but the pink on the right is much harder to spot. I guarantee if a new user were to sit in front of the display without being made aware of the issue, they'd never notice it. I've heard that 600+ backlight hours basically eliminates the issue for most users. I'll post with an update when I reach the milestone. I'm already well past the RMA period, so I'm in it for the long haul!
 
Skakruk said:
Mine is revision GIG-122 with GIG 045 firmware and forgets its bezel light off setting every time I turn it off. Should I return it? Are there any other issues with this version aside from the bezel light thing?
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The bezel light thing is a known firmware 045 bug. My original monitor had the same problem. Also had problems turning off sleep mode. Pretty much all of the Power Management options were screwed up. My replacement unit is free of these issues. Both 052 and 068 seem to have fixed 'em.

There's also a RUMOR that f/w 045 introduced almost a full frame of input lag. 032, 052 and 068 are apparently 10+ms faster. I have no way to confirm this, mind you. I had no problem gaming on my 045 unit, and I honestly notice no difference with the replacement in that regard. Both were/are more than adequate.

If it bothers you, demand a replacement. HP is well aware of it. If they're smart, they'll see to it you receive up-to-date firmware (as they did in my case). But be prepared to receive a factory refurb.
 
I'm not willing to sacrifice my fault-free (no hue, dead pixels, etc) monitor with F/W 045 in order to address an issue (or rumor) which I don't even notice.

I certainly will not settle for a factory refurbished monitor when I paid $600 to receive a new one.
 
PC_User said:
I'm not willing to sacrifice my fault-free (no hue, dead pixels, etc) monitor with F/W 045 in order to address an issue (or rumor) which I don't even notice.

I certainly will not settle for a factory refurbished monitor when I paid $600 to receive a new one.
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Exactly. Unless you're one of the rare minority who actually "feel" 9ms difference (are you a professional gamer? do you earn a paycheck playing video games? is your logo on my X-fi sound card?), ignore the input lag rumor. If the bezel light bothers you to any great extent, consider demanding a replacement. Otherwise, be happy you have an otherwise fault free unit with regard to tinting, dead pixels, etc. I probably would have stuck with my 045 were it not for the text issue that appears to have absolutely nothing to do with f/w ......... it's my problem. But that's another story.

If my unit is a refurb (which I'm 99% sure it is, according to the evidence), I'm of the same mind as you with regard to your firmware. It's "perfect" enough for my taste, recent f/w and revision. I paid $750 CDN for a unit that works. If it spent some time on a workbench, I can live with that so long as the damn thing operates like it's supposed to. Naturally I'd prefer a new unit, but this one shows no signs of being pre-owned short of the doctored revision sticker on the back. Even that could've been something they did prior to initial purchase, updating stock. I dunno! Not gonna lose any sleep over it.
 
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Yikes2000 said:
The default 80 contrast caused significant RTC artifact. For example, scrolling down a credit card statement with alternating white and gray lines made the area green. The same thing occured when scrolling normal text to some extend. Even at 65 contrast, inverse ghosting was still visible on my LP2475w. Only when I turned it down 33, it went away - but that's too dark for everyday use.
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Why would contrast setting affect overdrive bug? I guess instead of reducing it, it sort of covers it subjectively but its still there. But I have to test this myself. Hopefully I dont have to sacrifice much black depth and contrast. The inverse ghosting is only flaw in my piece, but I only notice it when bright objects move on darker colored background, like sun or cloud on blue sky. Other movement is just fine. *edit* No effect on RTC artifacts here. Where it occurs for me, it still occured even when contrast turned down to 30.


I didn't expect this monitor's blacks to be as good as my CRT's, but this is appalling. This thing is absolutely worthless for movies. If this is considered 'good' for an LCD, then I dread to imagine what cheap TN's are like.

My lighting conditions are a blackout curtained room , unlit aspart from a halogen desk lamp firing at the wall behind the monitor. Even when I turn on my two ceiling lights and set them to half strength with a dimmer switch, the monitor still looks washed out.
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That definetly sounds like you have a lemon monitor.

One thing though to clarify, when you watch 16:9 or smaller movies, do the black bars on top and below of the picture look black, but the movie itself in the center is washed out? Are other applications like games fine in black depth, but movies look like shit? If so, then this is a colorspace/luminance range mismatch and not a backlight problem, but a common bug in media players when used with LCD screens. It tries to show the picture in TV mode 16-235 lumarange, but the monitor works in 0-255 mode, ending in washed out blacks and bland colors. There are several ways to work around this, some media players also have support for different output modes that might fix this. If you use ffdshow to decode your movies including DVDs, in config click Output, and uncheck every colorspace support but RGB32 and enable High Quality YV12 to RGB conversion. This fixes it with no side effects.

Also if you use Media Player Classic as a player, right clicking on the screen and enabling 16-235->0-255 in the Shader page also fixes this problem. But this also might make video clips that do not have this washed out problem appear too dark so you have to disable this shader on those. Some other players might have similar Shader fixes.


Some codecs also have settings to fix this problem, usually labeled with 16-235->0-255 numbers.
 
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Forceman said:
Deeky, have you finally solved your issues with the text?
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To be honest, I'm not 100% sure. I've settled on settings that best mitigate the "glow" of the light text on dark background, but they're not ideal. I'll be withholding ultimate judgment until after my X-rite Eye One D2 gets here.

The problem is, I've been subject to the eye strain for so long now that my eyes are no longer reliable when it comes to gauging the extent of the problem. It's been an extremely busy period at work. I've been spending A LOT of time in front of the screen (and others), so it could be a normal level of eye strain made worse by the initial phase of ocular blistering I received during the first week. I've had literally no time to recover. I woke up on Monday morning with a busted blood vessel in my right eye and I'm even seeing the white text "glow" when I watch my plasma television! I'd consider that justified grounds for immediate refund if it weren't for the fact that my eyes have since gotten better. The redness is disappearing, no more irritation, and I'm still using the LP2475w 8 hours a day.

.......... so again, to be honest, I don't know! I know it sounds odd, but there are simply too many factors at play for me to determine whether my issues are 100% related to the current settings. The fact that my eyes have since gotten better despite continued use makes me think otherwise.
 
Not really. 1.5 frame lag isnt really noticeable. I dont notice it in any games. It is still there meaning your opponents are 1.5 frames ahead of you always but it is so minimal. But when you add V-sync and Triple Buffering + few prerendered frames (it is recommended to set this as low as possible anyway to minimize lag, if you can adjust this atleast) on top of this base lag, it starts to get easily noticeable. In any case, 1.5 frames (or 25ms) is darn low lag.


On that video, the difference is almost impossible to notice when playing. But when you pause the screen in few key points it is noticeable that CRT is slightly ahead. Very slightly but still ahead.
 
MirageMobile said:
Any idea if this is going to be an issue for me (gaming), coming from a Dell 207wfp (TN panel)?
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I came from a Samsung 226bw 2ms TN panel and I feel zero input lag in Far Cry 2, Left4Dead, Fallout3, Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway ... the list goes on. I know it's there, but only because a nice gentleman set up a CRT next to his LP2475w.

:D
 
MaZa said:
Not really. 1.5 frame lag isnt really noticeable. I dont notice it in any games. It is still there meaning your opponents are 1.5 frames ahead of you always but it is so minimal. But when you add V-sync and Triple Buffering + few prerendered frames (it is recommended to set this as low as possible anyway to minimize lag, if you can adjust this atleast) on top of this base lag, it starts to get easily noticeable. In any case, 1.5 frames (or 25ms) is darn low lag.
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I used to play FPS in clans when everyone was using CRT's. We only worried about net lags. And the difference between 45ms vs 75ms network lag is noticable. Also important is consistent, predictable lag, rather than spikes.

The LP2475w has an input lag between 11ms and 54ms according to PRAD. That's bad for FPS net play. Because even with a good 45ms network lag to the game server, I'd experience an inconsistent lag between 55ms and 109ms (network plus monitor).

Just ask any clan player this question: "Can you play well with an inconsistent lag between 55ms and 109ms?" The answer is no.
 
MaZa said:
Why would contrast setting affect overdrive bug? I guess instead of reducing it, it sort of covers it subjectively but its still there. But I have to test this myself. Hopefully I dont have to sacrifice much black depth and contrast. The inverse ghosting is only flaw in my piece, but I only notice it when bright objects move on darker colored background, like sun or cloud on blue sky. Other movement is just fine. *edit* No effect on RTC artifacts here. Where it occurs for me, it still occured even when contrast turned down to 30.
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See: My Previous Post

My guess is that Brightness & Contrast together controls how aggressive RTC is on the LP2475w. When I increase Brightness, the threshold Contrast at which RTC is turned off is also increased (35 instead of 33, for example). I've also observed the same RTC artifact on two other LP2475w, so it isn't a defect of my particular monitor.

The effect is especially obvious when I place the test image (from my preivous post) across the border of my LP2475w and NEC 20WMGX2, where half of the image is on each monitor. As I scroll up and down at various speed, the 20WMGX2 doesn't change the color of the gray, but the LP2475w either adds green to the gray/white, or make the gray darker, or redder, depending on the Contrast setting.
 
Yikes2000 said:
I used to play FPS in clans when everyone was using CRT's. We only worried about net lags. And the difference between 45ms vs 75ms network lag is noticable. Also important is consistent, predictable lag, rather than spikes.

The LP2475w has an input lag between 11ms and 54ms according to PRAD. That's bad for FPS net play. Because even with a good 45ms network lag to the game server, I'd experience an inconsistent lag between 55ms and 109ms (network plus monitor).

Just ask any clan player this question: "Can you play well with an inconsistent lag between 55ms and 109ms?" The answer is no.
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Yes. Though I am a singleplayer gamer only, so thats why I brought up the V-sync + Triple Buffering + prerendered frames issue. average 25ms (I play in averages) lag is very low, but when other processes are added on top of it, it starts to get noticeable. V-sync ads one frame, Triple Buffering another, and prerendered frames increase how many frames are setted to be prerendered (Nvidia atleast has ridiculously high 2-3 frames on default. LAAAG!!!!) and we start to have noticeable a problems that even slowest reacting person should notice on their mouse movement.
 
Yikes2000 said:
See: My Previous Post

My guess is that Brightness & Contrast together controls how aggressive RTC is on the LP2475w. When I increase Brightness, the threshold Contrast at which RTC is turned off is also increased (35 instead of 33, for example). I've also observed the same RTC artifact on two other LP2475w, so it isn't a defect of my particular monitor.

The effect is especially obvious when I place the test image (from my preivous post) across the border of my LP2475w and NEC 20WMGX2, where half of the image is on each monitor. As I scroll up and down at various speed, the 20WMGX2 doesn't change the color of the gray, but the LP2475w either adds green to the gray/white, or make the gray darker, or redder, depending on the Contrast setting.
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I dont notice different colors, but it might be my eyes. All I can see on my screen that the grey bars leave noticeable darker-than-original gray trail indicating inverse ghosting. :confused: Perhaps this would be easier if I would have another LCD next to it, perhaps my eyes are used to any color artifacts this might have.
 
MaZa said:
I dont notice different colors, but it might be my eyes. All I can see on my screen that the grey bars leave noticeable darker-than-original gray trail indicating inverse ghosting. :confused: Perhaps this would be easier if I would have another LCD next to it, perhaps my eyes are used to any color artifacts this might have.
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It depends on your color profile. If your monitor is already green or blue (e.g. 9000K white point), then you're not going to see it. Mine is set to 6500K, with Contrast at 65. (Be sure to display the test image in full size.) At 80 Contrast, the image takes on a green tint when I scroll.
 
I am seriously considering buying this monitor but there is a detail that people who have the monitors probably can answer. The specs of the monitor show that it has 48-75 HZ vertical frequency and all I can see on the web or in the user manual is 60HZ at 1920x1080 or 1200. Is it possible to do 48HZ or 72 HZ at this resolution so that I can watch bluray at 24p.

Thanks a lot,

_mulder
 
When you guys figure out these issues, yet me know.

Then, I'll buy one.


Haha, no, I really appreciate you guys sharing your troubleshooting experiences with the forum, and I'm sure I will be referring to them all when I purchase this monitor in the very near future.
 
Skakruk said:
Look at what it's done, it's cropped the image on all four sides (see how you can't see the taskbar). That photo was taken with the monitor set to 'Fill to Aspect Ratio'. If I set it to 'Fill to Screen', it's still cropped, but also distorted.

What's the good of providing Component inputs on a monitor that can't handle analogue signals?
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OSD: Image Control -> Auto Adjustment
 
Ok, I've read through about half this thread plus some of the posts at the end and will work through the rest shortly. I'm pretty decided to at least try this monitor, I need a single monitor to replace my dual NEC 20WMGX2 (yeah I may regret not having daulies) due to new arrangements.

From my past LCD experience things that bothered me were:

1) strong anti-glare on a Dell 2407WFP. Obviously the glossy NECs have none of this. I've also had a Samsung TN panel pass through my hands recently and the antiglare on it was subdued unlike the Dell. I understand the antiglare on this is NOT strong right?

2) 'fuzzy' pixels. Coincidentally, or maybe not, I noticed 'fuzzy' text on an HP w2207, somewhat like what people here are describing as what looks like a CRT-esque convergence problem. I chalked it up to pixel pitch on the 22" panel, I have no problem like that on the 20WMGX2, and the pixel pitch on this one is more similar to the NEC than the other HP. I'll keep reading but is this a consistent problem or a personal one?

Finally I'll consider a hardware calibrator. It seems the i1 line is most recommended, if not what's best? I am unsure of the difference between the i1 Display LT and the Display 2 though. From x-rite's site the only thing I can tell is a coupon for more of their software which wouldn't interest me at all...are there any other differences? **This is probably the most important question :p since the others are answerable with other posts and I'm pretty determined to try this monitor.
 
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Yeah I'm just not sure about the text fuzziness/convergence because some people mention it and some don't which means it's either only certain panels or a personal vision thing. There were also some tips in the first half of the thread about detailed Cleartype settings at least for text. I wonder if it's partly due to pixel pitch, I sort of noticed it on the 2407WFP I had briefly but it wasn't as significant as on the w2207. Then again the Samsung 24" TN I had a chance to use for a few days didn't have it.
 
wow, it can't do 1:1 scaling over component? But that looks a little like user error. Did you turn off scaling for your video card...
 
Skakruk said:
'Scaling' options are only available in the NVIDIA CP when using a digital connection, but I did make sure all the other 'Desktop Resize' settings etc. were at default.

Has anyone else here actually tried the Component inputs on this monitor?
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Just looking at that quickly it looks like a driver issue. Have you tried feeding the monitor any other sources? An HDTV receiver would be a better bet I would think trying those resolutions...

But I still don't get it, you're saying there's no 1:1 option in the monitor's menu either over component?
 
Why are you trying to feed it a component signal from you GTX anyway? if you are using multiple displays, that's probably the problem right there. Because if the image displayed over component is still cropped even when NO scaling (1:1) is used on the monitor, then the signal being sent to the monitor is already cropped or distorted. Try truning off DDC/CI on the monitor (under managment) that way it won't send anything to the video card and check your GTX specs for what can be output over Component, then check the control panel to see what type signal is bieng output (bottom option in left pane).
 
Skakruk said:
No-one has answered my question yet: has anyone else here actually managed to use the component inputs on the HP LP2475w?
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When I get home today I will find my Component dongle and try it with my GTX 260 card. I wish I had a component source but I use my PC as my all inclusive media center.

I might as well try the USB hub also.

Why haven't any of the professional reviews tested the input jacks on this monitor as part of their revies so we users don't have to do it?
 
It's displaying it at 3:2, not 4:3. 4:3 would have wider black bars. 480p is 720x480, which is a 3:2 resolution that's supposed to be stretched to 4:3 or 16:9, but most monitors don't do that.

The widescreen setting in your Xbox is irrelevant to the monitor. That just controls how the Xbox scales the image, not the monitor. The widescreen setting assumes the display is stretching the image to 16:9, which is what widescreen TVs do.
 
I've been wondering the same thing. It seems like manufacturers don't care about getting it right.
 
Received my X-rite i1 D2 calibration kit, this morning.

I'm now on my 7th profile (noob to this whole operation, took me a few flubbed attempts) and I'm quite pleased with the results. The colors are noticeably improved, more tame and realistic. I feel that the whites are no longer screaming. My eyes are still in a state of shock from prior to calibration, so it'll take a few days of continued use with the new settings to determine whether they truly make a difference with regard to my eye strain.

My process:

Factory Reset in OSD.
Nvidia Control Panel at default settings.
Contrast 100 (as instructed by the i1 software).
Custom Colors.

I end up with:

Contrast 91
Brightness 14

Red 240
Green 230
Blue 255

Purely coincidental that the numbers rounded off so nicely. The i1Match 3.6.2 software runs fine on Vista x64 (according to the X-rite website and my own experience). The software on the disc that came with the equipment included 3.6.1, so I downloaded from the website for OS compatibility.

Overall, I'm pleasantly surprised. Not sure what I was expecting, but I'm very impressed so far.
 
148/068 is the most recent combination, but I have no idea what the difference between that and 133/052 is. I haven't heard of anything major.
 
Well I've had mine for five days. It's a nice display, the antiglare is just barely noticable if you sit a close but not overpowering at all like Dell. The antiglare on a Samsung 2443BW is the bet I've seen in a monitor I've had in my house when it comes to screen coating aside from glossy :p but the HP is fine too. The wide gamut was noticable right off, especially reds and to a lesser extent greens. I sort of got used to it after a few days and it didn't bother me but I could still tell it was there, it's not something I'd get too upset over or anything. Yes there is white glow in the bottom two corners that an A-TW polarizer would fix. Where they appear depends upon how you have the monitor oriented relative to your eyes in both height and angle plus sitting distance. Sit too close and you'll get more white glow. My eyes are about 30" from the screen. It doesn't bother me because it looks similar to a weak light reflection like the rest of the screen's antiglare. I think people make too much of it epsecially with artificially unreal situations like 80 degree viewing angle shots.

Gaming is fine, video is fine, I haven't used additional inputs yet.

No dead pixels or subpixels but there is a piece of debris that covers around 1.75 pixels. It's three inches in and three inches down in the top right corner. I've had overall good luck with screens, I don't notice this anyway unless I look for it on a white background but it's still covered under warranty if I chose to exchange it.

I had no text issues (blurry or red/blue fringe - I think it is a good chance the latter is from chromatic abberation which someone already mentioned, if you have glasses with polycarbonate lenses, the leightest weight ones that get pushed by eyeglass makers, that's likely where it comes from.) There was also no noticable pink/green tinting going on. The screen was *maybe* a touch darker on the left and brighter toward the right but if so it was very subtle. Sometimes I think it's the green/pink thing if I sit there and scrutinize a white background but I was never sure it was there. Very subtle if it is and may be brightness inconsistency instead.

-----
I've just calibrated it with an i1 D2 and my previous manual calibration...lol well I guess I like screens bright! I was using a luminance around 200 I think. It did help even out the wide gamut. Pure colors, especially red and a little bit green, on a black background are still pretty intense. Maybe because now my blacks are more black too at 0.2 cd.

GIG 122, F/W 052, Dec 2008 mfg
R: 224
G: 217
B: 224
Brightness: 8
Contrast: 100

The calibration 'scores' were very good. One thing I don't get though is everyone has contrast below 100, but in the i1 calbration sequence you set contrast to 100, then adjust luminance with brightness....in other words you never change the contrast. And yet people have changed contrast? Please explain that to me :p are both controls supposed to be used for calibration despite what the instructions seem to say?

After having it at 120 LUX for a bit I feel like the text isn't as sharp but it's probably just my eyes adjusting. At the same time I felt that even before text was weird in that it wasn't *quite* as sharp when I sat back a bit. Probably just my own vision and not the monitor. *Actually this is getting better even as I sit here so my eyes are adjusting to the proper brightness. **One wierd thing after calibration...the L-R brightness or 'possible' green-pink seems a touch more prominent after calibration (could just be my perception too.) Is it possible the higher brightness wiped it out (or blinded me from it :p) OR that the much lowered backlight exacerbates it?

Overall it's surely a keeper I just have to work with it a bit more. Just got to figure out a way to keep the .icc loaded all the time, maybe I'll have to just pick up powerstrip or wait for Win7.
 
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It tells you to set it to 100, then you hit "start". At 100 on 6500k preset, the indicator is in the green and requires no alteration. But if you're set to Custom Color, you'll need to reduce it to about 90 to get the indicator into the middle of the green. Not sure why everyone else seems to end up in the mid 60's with their contrast. Might be a weakness of the i1 unit, or something we're doing wrong?

Another interesting note: like the TFT Central review of the i1 D2 noted, even though I altered the brightness to exactly 120cd/m2 during calibration, the end result was 109cd/m2. However, if you check the custom luminescence option before you start calibration, you can correct the luminescence by literally holding the unit against the monitor displaying a white background and pressing the "measure" button. I originally ended up with brightness 6, but bumped it up to brightness 14 when I double-checked the luminescence under the custom option. That brought me bang on to 120 from 109.
 
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Are you turning off the monitor, perhaps leaving it in stand-by would get better results.
 
Skakruk said:
Dammit, when I turned everything on today none of the devices connected to the replacement monitor were working. Is there something I'm doing wrong? Does no-one else use the USB hub?
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I had this problem in WinXP. Here is the solution. Find the "USB Root Hub" in Device Manager for the LP2475w, go into the "Power Management" tab and turn off "Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power" (it is on by default).
 
When I set the PC resolution to either 1920x1080 or 1280x720, the text becomes a garbled mess, and the colours saturate.

Does this happen for anyone else?

This occurs regardless of which "Aspect" mode you use. Reducing the sharpness to "1" helps with the text, but it's far from pixel perfect.

I'm on F/W GIG052, for future reference. This effect comes into play with all inputs, and makes 1080p games (via PS3/HDMI or 360/VGA) look blurrier than they should.
 
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