GHOST S1 - When both size & performance matters

Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
34
They gave the backers a good look at the revised case design, you guys should be quite happy once they get it posted here in full detail. :)
 

dondan

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
1,743
...For the Dan A4 Dondan has said it takes 5-6 months, which is a little too long of a wait for me.

Our definite goal is to be able to deliver well before Christmas, Oct-Nov!

Then you have to start production now because the production time of the 3M riser is 12-16 weeks. This is the reason why the production of the A4-SFX takes so long. So Oct-Nov is impossible.
 

rmearns

n00b
Joined
Feb 1, 2017
Messages
21
Yeah, but in involves cutting off the blades underneath, which doesn't sound like a proper solution to me..

But hey, this is Hardforum, right?

i wouldn't really recommend it. it was a bit of a headache to do a clean job of it.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 11, 2017
Messages
25
For those wondering about the lack of updates, the team has moved all discussion and updates to a Facebook group "GhostS1Reboot", for Kickstarter backers, for the time being, and they will post updates to different forums when they are finished with the new updated case design, so if you are interested just search for "GhostS1Reboot" on Facebook and apply to join, there are some very nice updates being posted.
 

Necere

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 3, 2003
Messages
2,751
Unfortunately, I think they've missed the lesson here: being open and communicative during the development process is what gets people invested in the project, and ultimately what gets them to back it when the time comes. Moving the discussion to a private, limited-access group only hurts them in the long run.
 
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
34
Unfortunately, I think they've missed the lesson here: being open and communicative during the development process is what gets people invested in the project, and ultimately what gets them to back it when the time comes. Moving the discussion to a private, limited-access group only hurts them in the long run.
Someone asked why they haven't been posting it across forums and their reasoning was "we will start spreading the information around forums soon, the value of going through it with you first is that we get many good questions that we will be able to proactively address before they appear"

People want to see the whole process even if it isn't all smooth sailing, really builds up a image that they are constantly working to improve the case.
 

jjsyht

Weaksauce
Joined
May 29, 2016
Messages
86
Agree with last two posts.
Engage the community now instead of saying at the end, how you listened to feedback, and other marketing crap.

It requires more of your time, but this is the only few FREE things a start-up has.
 

backfeed

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 22, 2010
Messages
480
I agree with the last three posts. :)

So far, I think they're doing pretty much everything wrong when it comes to communication/marketing/timing (because they don't seem to get how this particular market works, and apparently don't care to listen either). Sure, it's a lot simpler to gather all communication in one place, but simpler definitely does not equal better. Especially not when that one place is a walled invitation-only garden. To me, it's stupid. And annoying. And frustrating.

One reason they're rushing through this is likely because it isn't a side project, it's their full-time job (at least for two of them, I think) and the sooner they can start selling the better for their private economy. But I don't know them, and I'm just guessing from what I've read in the forums (here, SFF and Sweclockers).
 

Bladestorm

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
1,232
I agree with the last few posts. I was a kickstarter backer before he took it down. Now I'm much more interested in the A4-SFX v2 if this is how he's going to communicate.
 

OTP

n00b
Joined
Sep 7, 2015
Messages
4
I agree with the last few posts. I was a kickstarter backer before he took it down. Now I'm much more interested in the A4-SFX v2 if this is how he's going to communicate.
Who is "he"? I think you misunderstood who's behind this project. It's not one person, they are a team.
 

Pachalski

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
327


Finally, some daylight. Sorry for the silence but we needed these last weeks in the lab, contemplating and consolidating all feedback - putting them into practice. Now we feel comfortable presenting the revised (or resurrected) GHOST S1. This is not a final answer to all your questions and feedback, but a try to create a platform for discussion, call it a version 0.8 if you want. Next week we will meet with the factory and preparing for a new production prototype so please help us get it to a 0.9 as soon as possible. High-level feedback to nitty-gritty details - we need it all.

Let’s get to it. First the new spec and then a presentation of all the components we’ve adjusted


THE SPEC



General Specifications & Compatibility

  • Overall dimensions (including shell & feets): 317 x 133 x 184 mm
  • GPU: Dual-Slot, maximum: 306 x 136 x 50 mm
  • Motherboard: Mini-ITX
  • PSU: SFX or SFX-L
  • Storage: 3 x 2.5" SSD/HDD + M.2
  • CPU cooler: maximum height 65,3 mm
  • Memory: maximum height 67,3 mm
GPU providers don’t specify dimensions detailed enough to understand compatibility completely (especially if they are close to our specified measurements). We will try each of the major GPU models to give you a go/no go as soon as possible. However, IF you see that the dimensions of you card are far smaller than the Ghost’s it will most certainly fit.



THE SPINE


This is where most of the engineering hours have been spent. Maximizing functionality while simplifying the layout has been the primary guiding principle throughout the design process. The hardware of your choice can be fixated directly to the Spine making it the single most important component of the case.

The spine has been totally remodeled, assuring better compatibility, endurance and production efficiency.


  • Height lowered from 179mm to 176mm
  • MB opening enlarged
  • PMB standoffs changed from 6mm to 4mm
  • Fillet to gables decreased
  • PSU bracket, redesigned and fixation orientation flipped 180
  • Kensington lock added on rear gable
  • Power & SSD opening enlarged
  • Length increased by 2 mm
  • Space on both sides of monococ increased by 2.32mm horizontally
  • Filter slots accentuated for better guidance
  • CPU cooler max height 65.32
  • Memory max height 67,32
  • Anodized T5 or T6 alloy
  • GPU max width raised to 53.32 mm


THE CORE

The Core consists of the Spine with some additional components that protect the inside, simplifies the build and increases the aesthetics of the end-product. For the hardcore users, this is where the build ends. Just add filters to cover the Core cavities and you have a stunning case with the “hood left open”.







  • The base plate is slightly longer than the Spine, creating a small lip in the front and two small appendices in the back that the shell eventually rests on.
  • A couple of new holes are found in the back, the earlier plan to have that grill snap on with magnets is ditched and instead it is screwed in place from the back.
  • The total core volume is reduced by 100 ml, at the same time the compatibility is increased. Longer and wider GPU, taller CPU clearance and more room between the PSU and the MB
  • The core is airier than before, the updated design allows for more vertical airflow
  • The top and the bottom of the Core have identical opening patterns, also matching the grill (presented later) perfectly
  • Included dust filters that are well integrated in the design and architecture of the case, making the not only look good but also are easily pulled out for cleaning
  • Pushed bottom plate to increase rigidity and make room for bottom filter
  • Re-designed top plate for reduced turbulence and increased air-flow


THE SHELL

By now, most of you have a good understanding of the inner workings of the case. All the components have iteratively been designed in respect to each other, when assembling all the components together this will hopefully clearly shine through.







  • Shell, anodized rough/matt and dyed in different colors (we will discuss the final launching line-up later)
  • Hole pattern changed, enlarged radius on holes from 1,25 to 1,5mm, increased perforated area on sides vertically to match 120mm fans in PSU and CPU (aesthetically we would like your input here. In our opinion the increased performance/noise reduction/air flow come at a cost of looks
  • The top of the shell is now milled down to let the grill “fall down into the shell”, grill has been increased in every horizontal direction by ~1mm to make this possible (same solution is used in the TopHats, below)
  • All patterns between components are synchronized in order merge in a neat and efficient way, see bottom silhouette angle


THE TOPHATS


Last chapter of the product walk-through covers the TopHats. There are a couple of changes made here. The TopHats now have a milled bottom that slides down into the shell, they are still screwed to shell on the inside.



  • Small: 15,5mm
  • Medium: 25,5mm
  • Large: 56,5mm
The IO-panel has 4 sets of holes to make height adjustments possible to match selected TopHat.
 
Last edited:

Pachalski

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
327
An early illustration of the cable managment solution and why the PSU-bracket needs to be removable for this to work.



 

nadeboy

Weaksauce
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
71
They gave the backers a good look at the revised case design, you guys should be quite happy once they get it posted here in full detail. :)
I don't remember seeing anything :( i don't use facebook so not sure if updates have been posted there recently.
 

Pachalski

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
327
Exiciting news. Really hope the next campaign is successful.... even though I'm not in for this cas, mostly cuz its not as portable (see link below) and I already have a small case. But related to the link, if one of the modular top part of the case would include a handle, it would be awesome.

https://hardforum.com/threads/dan-a...in-the-world.1799326/page-260#post-1042903688

We are looking at a long strap that will go in the back of the case as an optional add-on, also if there is a demand for custom carrying bag there will be one =)
 

Pachalski

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
327
Let me throw in one more question before I go to bed tonight. We threw up a post on Instagram two days ago to feel out the reactions. It generated a lot of activity which made us consider this more seriously. A Tempered glass side window, what are your thoughts? We need to clean the design up of course and make it cleaner but this works as a presentation of concept. Side filters still slide in there (seen in one of the images).

 

nadeboy

Weaksauce
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
71
I think having optional side window showing the gfx card would be great and people would like that. But then again having it interchangeable between either side would also be very cool.
 

Mackan

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 8, 2014
Messages
379
I think it would look quite fantastic if you could somehow slide down an almost edge to edge glass panel on the sides just like the dust filter slides down in the openings. It would of course need to have holes for ventilation, or otherwise fit for water cooling setups only, or get airflow from bottom mounted fans in a pedestal. Whether this is feasible or not I don't know. I can forsee difficulties achieving the solution.

This tempered glass panel solution you show above is of course quite nice as well. Not too many other ways to mount it, I think.
 

Pachalski

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
327
Let’s start walking through all the changes in detail, component for component, first out is the base plate. The following significant changes have been made here:


· Base cutout pattern redesigned to match larger hole pattern in top grill and the “Mounting deck” (FKA the Creative Platform)

· Material thickness reduced for better manufacturing precision

· Pushed 3mm for stronger construction and to make room for bottom filters

· SSD bracket mounted with m2 screws and soft rubber soft rubber gaskets

· 2 different SSD bracket placements, on that allows side filters, one that leaves more room underneath the PSU

· 2.5” drive vertical spacing in bracket is 8mm

· One SSD-disk is mountable without the SSD-bracket using the same mounting holes.

· 4,85mm tall, soft rubber feet, diameter 8,2mm

 

dondan

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
1,743
A Tempered glass side window, what are your thoughts? We need to clean the design up of course and make it cleaner but this works as a presentation of concept. Side filters still slide in there (seen in one of the images).



Wow a copy paste of my solution.

 

dondan

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
1,743
If you read my thread i did hours of testing and prototyping i found out that you need a cutout into the window to have airflow. If you have only the gap the temps will be very bad.

Furthermore there are other options to design a window and I am not talking about only adding holes.
 

elgardo

n00b
Joined
Mar 21, 2017
Messages
34
If you read my thread i did hours of testing and prototyping i found out that you need a cutout into the window to have airflow. If you have only the gap the temps will be very bad.

Furthermore there are other options to design a window and I am not talking about only adding holes.
There are already many manufacters that use this solution...
 

Ziths

n00b
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
11
If you read my thread i did hours of testing and prototyping i found out that you need a cutout into the window to have airflow. If you have only the gap the temps will be very bad.

Furthermore there are other options to design a window and I am not talking about only adding holes.

Well, you are a great contribution to this forum dondan and I'm sure Pachalski didn't just copy paste your idea. I'm sure he has given it some serious thought too.
 

dondan

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
1,743
I'm sure he has given it some serious thought too.

Ok then it is wasted to say that the four mounting holes on the panel are in the keep out area for the glass. For tempered the formula is thickness x 5 and for acryl thickness x 3. In the current design the glass will break on the corners while drilling or cutting the four holes.

As I said a fast copy without thinking of it.

If you review the case drawings there are other construction mistakes like the thin stripes in the bottom plate or the mounting holes on the back of the shell that are too close to the bends. Also the renders looks not really smooth the reason is Keyshot needs more time for making it smooth. Why not let keyshoot run for 20min for each picture.

Don't get me wrong the base idea is good and they become better but I have the feeling they make everything too fast and don't take the time to make it perfect.
 

Pachalski

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
327
Time to go through the Spine, the following important changes have been done:

· Height lowered from 179mm to 176mm

· Edges chamfered

· MB opening enlarged

· PCI riser opening smoothened and decreased

· PMB standoffs changed from 6mm to 4mm

· Fillet to gables decreased

· PSU bracket fixation orientation flipped 180

· Kensington lock added on rear gable

· Outer corner edges rounded

· Power & SSD opening enlarged

· Length increased by 2 mm

· Space on both sides of monococ increased by 2.32mm horizontally

· Filter slots accentuated for better guidance

· CPU cooler max height 65.32

· Memory max height 67,32

· Anodized T5 or T6 alloy, color not set

· GPU max width raised to 50mm mm

· Separator on rear gable in-between GPU slots removed

 

Ziths

n00b
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
11
Wow a copy paste of my solution.

Not useful.

Ok then it is wasted to say that the four mounting holes on the panel are in the keep out area for the glass. For tempered the formula is thickness x 5 and for acryl thickness x 3. In the current design the glass will break on the corners while drilling or cutting the four holes.

As I said a fast copy without thinking of it.

If you review the case drawings there are other construction mistakes like the thin stripes in the bottom plate or the mounting holes on the back of the shell that are too close to the bends. Also the renders looks not really smooth the reason is Keyshot needs more time for making it smooth. Why not let keyshoot run for 20min for each picture.

Don't get me wrong the base idea is good and they become better but I have the feeling they make everything too fast and don't take the time to make it perfect.

Now this is useful! Thanks dondan !
 

illram

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Messages
1,467
The recent sniping between some of the case creators in some of the threads here is not a good look. There is no need for it, no one is getting rich designing and selling kickstarter cases here. This isn't Steve Jobs vs. Bill Gates. Constructive criticism is great, can we keep it to that?
 

dondan

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
1,743
You are right! We are not big players, we are a small community with great unique projects. But this will only work if we try to be unique and don't start copy from each other, because this is what all the big players do. I was ready for the situation that a big player starts copy my ideas or makes it very similar, but not inside the community. Maybe you have a different opinion about it, but I spend tons of hours with my ideas and that is the reason why I think this way.

This is my last statement to this thread sorry for offtopic.
 

mcheddadi

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 24, 2015
Messages
240
You are right! We are not big players, we are a small community with great unique projects. But this will only work if we try to be unique and don't start copy from each other, because this is what all the big players do. I was ready for the situation that a big player starts copy my ideas or makes it very similar, but not inside the community. Maybe you have a different opinion about it, but I spend tons of hours with my ideas and that is the reason why I think this way.

This is my last statement to this thread sorry for offtopic.


LOL! please, no one cares who did it first. this isn't kindergarden ;)

manufacturer will come and go and in the end, great projects will be used, remembered or forgotten on their own merits.
 

Calysto

n00b
Joined
Jan 17, 2017
Messages
40
You are right! We are not big players, we are a small community with great unique projects. But this will only work if we try to be unique and don't start copy from each other, because this is what all the big players do. I was ready for the situation that a big player starts copy my ideas or makes it very similar, but not inside the community. Maybe you have a different opinion about it, but I spend tons of hours with my ideas and that is the reason why I think this way.

This is my last statement to this thread sorry for offtopic.
You knew it would happen, maybe not so fast or from here...
But I agree with you on the way things are being done and there is something that is bothering me even more than that.
If they are making so many changes now, and by the looks of it quite important too, what were they "selling" on kickstarter? An idea? Their first prototype/render?
 

darksable

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 9, 2015
Messages
431
LOL! please, no one cares who did it first. this isn't kindergarden ;)

manufacturer will come and go and in the end, great projects will be used, remembered or forgotten on their own merits.

But see, that's the thing. If I'm buying a small, cube-case of this sort, why am I going to buy the Ghost?

The Dan A4 is already established and is a great little case. If I want more space and watercooling support, then I turn to the Ncase M1.

The Ghost is doing a couple interesting things, but the way the development team is carrying themselves leaves a bit of a sour taste in my mouth, and more importantly...

Nowhere have they convinced me to buy their case. Nowhere do they show what benefit it has compared to its competitors. Okay, sure, it has this spine, and that's the heart of the build, and it has modular tophats.

So what? Why should I, as a potential purchaser, care? Why is it better to have a spine? What do the top hats allow me to do that I wouldn't otherwise?

The biggest flaw this project has is the way the team is approaching the community. If you look at the cases that have been wildly successful, they've been built with input from those of us who are fanatics about small computers - in other words, the customer base.

The attitude that's been projected by the Ghost team, whether it's the attitude they actually hold or not, is, "we're the designers and we're going to make something and it will be good and you should buy it because we're the designers." The first Kickstarter campaign was launched with literally no marketing, then there was the whole deal with the closed group redesign...

If you want the community to buy into your case, you're going to have to acknowledge that we know what we're talking about. This isn't like the world of ATX cases where there are thousands of competing products and a market large enough to just make a thing, throw it out into the world, and make money off of it.

You have to show how what you're doing is different, and more importantly, why doing it that way is better.
 

theGryphon

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 21, 2011
Messages
1,295
Wow a copy paste of my solution.

You are right! We are not big players, we are a small community with great unique projects. But this will only work if we try to be unique and don't start copy from each other, because this is what all the big players do. I was ready for the situation that a big player starts copy my ideas or makes it very similar, but not inside the community. Maybe you have a different opinion about it, but I spend tons of hours with my ideas and that is the reason why I think this way.

This is my last statement to this thread sorry for offtopic.


With all due respect, you jumped the gun by starting off with that comment on top. I understand your sensitivity and protectionism you have developed given all your efforts in designing your case but your claim that someone copy-pasted a tempered-glass sidepanel is as laughable as Apple's claim on rounded rectangles.

Like you have pointed out, the tempered-glass sidepanel showed by Pachalski looks nothing like yours, and your explanation that Pachalski's sidepanel does not look like yours must be because it's a "fast copy without thinking of it" makes it worse. Isn't it much much much more likely that they drew this without giving the proper attention to detail (such as you pointed out) because it's most likely their initial attempts at designing such a solution? Seriously, how else would you start off designing it? Crudely put, it's a slab of glass screwed to the sidepanel with four thumbscrews which trivially needs to have a clearance not to shut-off the airflow. Details give out the designer's efforts to make it their own, and I don't think anyone (including yourself) can point out any similarities in those details between yours and Pachalski's solutions... So, what exactly was copied from yours??

I really don't understand why you feel the need to post here at all. You have a great operation going on and you have the respect of this community (including mine), so unless you generously feel like giving a constructive tip (which you obviously are not expected to do) it can only make you look bad. In this discussion, for example, you came off as trying to put down a "competition" community member with hasty claims of copying, which is not classy at all...

Trust me, if there was even a hint of copying this community would act faster than you to point that out ;)
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Messages
14
But see, that's the thing. If I'm buying a small, cube-case of this sort, why am I going to buy the Ghost?

The Dan A4 is already established and is a great little case. If I want more space and watercooling support, then I turn to the Ncase M1.

The Ghost is doing a couple interesting things, but the way the development team is carrying themselves leaves a bit of a sour taste in my mouth, and more importantly...

Nowhere have they convinced me to buy their case. Nowhere do they show what benefit it has compared to its competitors. Okay, sure, it has this spine, and that's the heart of the build, and it has modular tophats.

So what? Why should I, as a potential purchaser, care? Why is it better to have a spine? What do the top hats allow me to do that I wouldn't otherwise?

The biggest flaw this project has is the way the team is approaching the community. If you look at the cases that have been wildly successful, they've been built with input from those of us who are fanatics about small computers - in other words, the customer base.

The attitude that's been projected by the Ghost team, whether it's the attitude they actually hold or not, is, "we're the designers and we're going to make something and it will be good and you should buy it because we're the designers." The first Kickstarter campaign was launched with literally no marketing, then there was the whole deal with the closed group redesign...

If you want the community to buy into your case, you're going to have to acknowledge that we know what we're talking about. This isn't like the world of ATX cases where there are thousands of competing products and a market large enough to just make a thing, throw it out into the world, and make money off of it.

You have to show how what you're doing is different, and more importantly, why doing it that way is better.

I have to disagree here. I've actually been waiting for something like this to come a long for awhile because the dan-case has a lot of flaws that is actually addressed in the ghost but in the same footprint.

It offers a far more flexible solution to the dancase and that is the merit of the ghost
 

mcheddadi

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 24, 2015
Messages
240
I have to disagree here. I've actually been waiting for something like this to come a long for awhile because the dan-case has a lot of flaws that is actually addressed in the ghost but in the same footprint.

It offers a far more flexible solution to the dancase and that is the merit of the ghost

yep thats what I think too.
Didn't need more to convince me. I think the reason their first kickstarter didn't work is that this basically is a product for those that want or already have the dan-a4 but want MORE but not NCASE size more. And that is a small subset of a small subset already.
p.s. please just get linustechtips on board as soon as the first prototype is complete. liquid cooling in a tiny case with 5ghz overclocks and titan xp will just blow everyone's mind.
 

k3uuu

n00b
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
5
Wow a copy paste of my solution.

Does the dancase v2 come with proprietary integrated salt powered PSUs? LMAO please get over yourself my dude. You're unironically trying to claim tempered glass side panels is "your" idea in 2017. What world do you live in?
 

Pachalski

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
327
Remeber, we still have a long way to go, new prototypes to be made, tested and final adjustments to be made before we start test production. See this as an updated platform for discussion and not the product we are trying to sell you. We have taken a couple of steps back to, with the purpose of arriving at an improved launching product. It will never be perfect and there will always be room for improvement, but that’s what makes this interesting.

This is not the first time this forum has gotten significantly off topic. We have a lot of areas that we would like to get your opinion on, such as the IO-panels configuration, should it be USB-c only or possibly none at all? What should the launching set of colors be? What if we made the case 5mm wider? etc. but we need to get there first. If a defending post is due, then by all means - but don’t let it become the main context of this thread and don’t be patronizing, letting emotions get the best of you when replying. It will hurt the overall discussion.

So, in an attempt to give this a new turn, let’s jump ahead and go straight to an important area where much can be said and we value your opinion:

OI-panle

What should the IO-panel include as standard, optional IO-panels will be developed further on so this is the Standard configuration only.

Please take the following areas into consideration:
• Aesthetics
• Compatibility
• Technical paradigm shifts, Gen , Gen 2 etc.
• Future proofing
• Cost efficiency
• Cable management (multiple interfaces and standards will clutter the build)



Power button and power led are more or less set?
 
Top