GHOST S1 - When both size & performance matters

Discussion in 'Small Form Factor Systems' started by Pachalski, Mar 22, 2017.

  1. Jowersman

    Jowersman [H]Lite

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    I will have my case!! Thank goodness! Now let's just accelerate that timeline... January?! Haha
     
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  2. FlamingKomodo

    FlamingKomodo n00bie

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    Goal reached \o/ we should still keep advocating more pledges, Louqe has such an extensive lineup of revisions and add-ons I'm sure a larger userbase puts them in a way stronger position in negotiations and planning.
     
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  3. Pachalski

    Pachalski Limp Gawd

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    Here is our current list of add-ons, anything else you see we need to add?


    Add-ons Short description

    Pedestals TopHat with side cutouts to elevate the case and house bottom fans
    Verticle stand Stand solution that makes it possible to place the Ghost vertically on it's back for a small footprint
    Handle TopHat TopHat with integrated carrying handle
    Vented glass side panels Side panels with tempered glass on stand-offs to reate ventilation passage
    Non vented Glass side panels Side panels with tempered glass integrated (flush) into the side panel for WC
    IO TopHat (gable) Tophat with integeated HDMI and USBs in the front/back
    ODD TopHat (gable) TopHat with integrated ODD slot for slime drives
    Colored grills Multiple optional grill color options
    Joiners Tophat that joins two Ghosts together with ventilated sides

    Later we will need your help prioritering among these projects. Preliminary prio chart below.

    upload_2017-12-7_8-15-3.png
     
  4. Kaktus

    Kaktus n00bie

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    It would be super awesome if we could get the IO Cable but a clean Top-Hat and then mount it at the back of the Ghost where this slide-in logo-sticker plate is.

    Furthermore i think non vented glass side panels would look incredibly amazing! :)
     
  5. Pachalski

    Pachalski Limp Gawd

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    That is a good idea actually, to provide the IO cables and connections separately! Another IKEA style offer where everything is delivered in separate packages!

    Regarding the glass side panel, it is unlikely we will do both a vented and a non vented to start with, more likely that one of them comes first. So the question is is it vented or not? Non vented would be for liquid cooling. Also, just hit me... would it be of any interest to have a solid side panel without ventilation holes?
     
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  6. Pachalski

    Pachalski Limp Gawd

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    Time for the large CPU cooler test, we have a bunch of coolers ready, which ones should be included? 4 of each type is probably the right amount for a clean report. The units we have in the lab are listed below:

    AIR:

    • Noctua HN-L9i Link
    • Noctua NH-L9x65 Link
    • Noctua NH-L12 Link
    • ZALMAN CNPS8900 Quiet Link
    • Big Shuriken 2 Rev. B + NF-A12x15 PWM Link, Fan
    • Cryorig C7 Link
    • ShadowRock LP + NF-A12x15 PWM Link, Fan


    LIQUID:

    • Corsair H100i v2 Link
    • Corsair H80i v2 Link
    • Fractal Design Celsius S24 Link
    • NZXT Kraken X52 Link
    • NZXT Kraken X31 Link
     
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  7. masteralef

    masteralef n00bie

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    Liquid- If you want to limit it to 4, I would probably skip one of the 120mm radiators, unless there's a particular reason to include them (I guess maybe some sort of bracket on a GPU and dual 120s, if that would fit/be advantageous?) But otherwise, I'd think everyone would just use a 240mm, since a topcoat is a topcoat.

    Air- We already know what the L9i does- decent enough on a lower power processor like a Ryzen 1700, but not enough to cool a 7700k/8700/8700k (maybe not even a 7700). And in this case, if you don't have additional case fans, it's going to be even worse, because it's going to recycle hot air. The C7 might just be, but I'm not sure why anyone would use it in this case over one of the 65mm range coolers, and the same thing that's true on the L9i with recycling the air is true here too. That leaves the other 5 coolers. I'm torn there- on the one hand, the L12 is better than the L9x65, but on the other hand, we also know that the L12 has been discontinued and will be hard to get in the future. So if you have to limit it to 4, I'd probably drop that, but if you're up for 5 I'd keep it.

    As a note- something that has been observed in the A4/Sentry is that connecting the fan to the side of the case helps prevent recycling air. Some people have built ducts, others have used foam weatherstripping. It'd be cool if you have a chance to test that and see how much of an effect it has.
     
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  8. Excallibur

    Excallibur n00bie

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    For Liquid please the H100I, Fractal and NZXT X52 really backed this case for the Liquid compatibility, please also share your experience regarding tube stiffness/length and ease of install.
    (also please test Top and bottom mounted. (And perhaps stretching push and pull orientations)

    Thanks
     
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  9. Kaktus

    Kaktus n00bie

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    Please include the NH-L9x65, NH-L 12 and the Shadow Rock LP. :)
     
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  10. greyhound

    greyhound n00bie

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    i don t think that the solid side panel whithout ventilation would be a good idea, if you don t need side ventilation it means that you are watercooling, usually when watercooling people want to show off their system.

    before deciding vented not vented i think that some render would be nice, vented glass pannels tend to be ugly
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017 at 10:19 AM
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  11. illram

    illram [H]ard|Gawd

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    Coolermaster Geminii M5 LED? (The new one with the slim fan.)

    Re side panels: I have a weird idea. What about some sort of expandable side panel for bigger air cooler support? You could for example have a panel that has a cut out over the CPU area, with a smaller panel that screws onto the larger panel over the hole, and the screws allow you to choose the clearance you need. Or two thin pieces with screw holes that slide in and allow you to screw onto them one larger panel at varying lengths. Or something, I don't know.
     
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  12. nadeboy

    nadeboy n00bie

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    I've never used AIO or water/liquid cooling and the flexibility of the tubing might be a concern with the Ghost case. My concern would be if i bought the H100i or X52 and found the tubing to be very firm and difficult to route into the tophat. Are all the AIO solutions you have used in the lab tests all flexible or is there some which are more difficult to work/install with?

    Thanks!
     
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  13. Kaktus

    Kaktus n00bie

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    That won't work because these panels slide in on the side. If you just expand the CPU area you won't be able to slide those panels in...
     
  14. Brandonandon

    Brandonandon n00bie

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    I'm wondering this myself. I know that you guys used the H100v2 during those initial tests, but Jayz2cents mentioned the Fractal Celcius S24 as being a better option because of the flexibility of the tubing. I already bought an H100v2 for this case during black Friday sales, wondering now if I should consider returning it or if it's fairly easy to install despite the more rigid tubing.

    It would be great if you could compare the ease of installation and any concerns you have about particular coolers. Thanks!
     
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  15. goldy

    goldy [H]ard|Gawd

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    Is the backer number tied to serial/production number, or is it meaningless?
     
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  16. illram

    illram [H]ard|Gawd

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    Cut out could be large enough to still install the cooler, or it could only connect at the top, or something. And the other idea of two "brackets" that slide in but are thin, like the width of a ruler, wouldn't get in the way I don't think if they are small enough. Probably would be ugly though. If I ever get a 3D printer I might give something like this a try....
     
  17. Jowersman

    Jowersman [H]Lite

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    A freaking top hat with a handle? Booya! This will work great lifting it out of my wallye bag :)
     
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  18. FlamingKomodo

    FlamingKomodo n00bie

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    I think your add-on lineup for the initial polling is sufficient, can't think of any others, and more would just diversify the waters too much.
    Will def. cast my vote for the priority when you guys are ready.

    My vote for air coolers. I'm really interested in air only cooling and I think these are the front runners.
    PLEASE I beg you PLEASE, do your temp tests with a delidded intel CPU I think anyone going for the S1 is considering delidding.

    ShadowRock LP + NF-A12x15 PWM Link, Fan
    Big Shuriken 2 Rev. B + NF-A12x15 PWM Link, Fan
    Noctua NH-L9x65 Link
    Noctua NH-L12 Link

    240mm is all I'm interested in.
    Fractal Design Celsius S24 Link
    NZXT Kraken X52 Link
    Corsair H100i v2 Link
     
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  19. Boil

    Boil Gawd

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    So, you are arguing that the non-vented (aka - solid) GLASS side panels are no good for water cooling "because people want to show off their system"...

    Which is why the solide (aka non-vented) side panels are made of GLASS...
     
  20. Yourflyisdwn

    Yourflyisdwn n00bie

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    I think Pashalski was half-pitching the idea of a solid metal side panel without ventilation, given that he already mentioned solid and ventilated glass side panels. So Greyhound was arguing that whoever doesn't want side ventilation is using water cooling and would therefore would want to show it off with a glass side panel, leaving virtually no market for a solid metal side panel.
     
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  21. Brandonandon

    Brandonandon n00bie

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    I sure hope so! I was backer #1 and was super excited when I got the Kickstarter email! I believe they had said previously that backer number would be tied to serial/production number but I haven’t heard anything about it recently.
     
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  22. goldy

    goldy [H]ard|Gawd

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    I wouldn't mind a #69 badge or label. :joyful:
     
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  23. greyhound

    greyhound n00bie

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    a way to do it would be a side pannel with a glass window that screw in (like the one for the dan case)

    edit: probably my brain just had a stroke and i just realised how retarded is what i wrote

    comprehension skill -10
     
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  24. Pachalski

    Pachalski Limp Gawd

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    I’ll tell you right away that we are not looking forward to doing a build with the H100v2 in this case again. It sounds harsh, but it really is tough. You need the zip ties to force the hoses into the center to be able to close slide the panels down. Messy and painful, feels like you are straining all the components and takes a long time. On top of that it is the loudest (based on only one unit). So I recommend you return it and get one of the other two. S24 if you want minimal wires (has a built in fan hub and draws power only from mobo) X52 if you want flashy look and don’t mind all the extra wires.

    Sory for not mentioning this earlier!
     
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  25. Pachalski

    Pachalski Limp Gawd

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    What about a carrying bag? ;)

    Regarding air cooling and delidded CPUs. I’m worried our old test did not translate the performance of the Ghost all that well. During DreamHack we were running 3DMark runs, back to back, all Sunday for 6 hours with L12 and 8700k and we never exceeded 65 C with an OC on GPU and standard (turbo enabled 4.7 Ghz ) CPU settings. In skydiver we were reaching scores over 47000, don’t remember what the Firestrike scores were. The point is you should not be worried about high temps or noise at all any more. The earlier published test were focusing on complete noiseless operation, with extremely defensive fan settings, where 80-85C was targeted.

    How should we better construct the tests to really show the cooling performance of this case? We would like to relieve you from the idea that an SFF case = poor cooling performance!

    EDIT: XS with bottom fan was used.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017 at 6:06 PM
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  26. greyhound

    greyhound n00bie

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    i think that you can set the fan speed at a specific rpm and then check the noise (should be the same but you never know) and the temps of the different coolers.
    you could run this test with 3 fan speeds (low-mid-high) with the different coolers.

    should be simple but quite time consuming

    as a reminder, to have proper results with water cooling temps you should run the test at least for 45 mins as it take time for the water to reach temperature and shorter tests tends to provide unrealistic results (temps too low)
     
  27. Boil

    Boil Gawd

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    Fractal Design S24 seems the ticket to me, easy flexible hoses & the tidy wiring setup...!

    Especially the tidy wiring setup...!!

    And, no annoying RGB advertising on the pump / block combo... !!!
     
  28. Jowersman

    Jowersman [H]Lite

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    What is this special gift going to be? I just want the top hat handle so I can get it out of my bag easier since I'll be traveling by air a lot (security).
     
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  29. FlamingKomodo

    FlamingKomodo n00bie

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    Carrying bag, would be neat but if I was given the choice of 2 priorities Louqe should take in terms of add-ons, it wouldn't be my choice.
    Nice to have, but I'm sure people would find an alternative bag if a Louqe carrying bag was low priority.

    (My 2 choices)
    Vented glass side/Raised glass side panel
    IO TopHat/(The Idea from SFF forums about extra rear I/O by the sticker)

    Fair enough. I'll tick any delidded results as a "nice to have but not necessary". Really seems the compartments really help with isolating the heat from each side this can be a nice metric showing 100% GPU and how it affects an idle CPU and vice-versa.

    > How should we better construct the tests to really show the cooling performance of this case?
    Re-reading, your tests were great, I just had been a lazy person and went straight to graphs. >.>
    I think your test info-graphics are fine just the way they are.
     
  30. Boil

    Boil Gawd

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    Okay, so I herp-a-derped on the solid side panel, my bad...

    But -10 comp...?

    Come on, that was like, a -5, at best...

    As to solid non-vented side panels & water cooling, I could see that some might want that...

    Not everyone goes for the LED-studded acrylic blocks & clear tubing & UV-reactive liquids & such...

    Some of us would be happy with acetal blocks & EK ZMT tubing & barb fittings & hose clamps & such...

    And the solid non-vented side panels would make for a nice sealed up air tunnel, only (minor) downside is that the PSU is now breathing internal chassis air...
     
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  31. PowerfulSFF

    PowerfulSFF n00bie

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    Please don’t get too side tracked with all of these extra items. Deliver a solid product and demonstrate what the current case can currently do, even information about the top hats isn’t that clear.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017 at 1:40 PM
  32. backfeed

    backfeed Limp Gawd

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    Which of those two would you subjectively say is more silent? I don't want extra wires nor flashy looks, but if the X52 is more silent I'd personally still go for that one.
     
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  33. readeh

    readeh [H]Lite

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    Currently using the perfect bag for the DAN case and would like a bag with the perfect fit for the Ghost S1. Actually what I want is not a "bag" it's more of a sleeve so it doesn't get scratched up as I usually use a normal backpack to keep it safe when flying or traveling.
     
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  34. Fernando93

    Fernando93 n00bie

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    Are you using the Wallye Tactic Duffle or something else?
     
  35. Pachalski

    Pachalski Limp Gawd

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    We mounted the S24 in the bottom and the x52 on top when tested. Subjectively:

    The S24 we could never hear, the x52 had a barely noticeable pump "hum" and fans would got audible under heavy torture. The luck of the draw could very well impact these differences.

    We will conduct a thorough test during the weekend and present the result very soon with identical orientations, I'd suggest waiting for those results before deciding.

    PS: Subjectively the x52 flashy pump looks the bomb through the side of the Ghost if you are into that.
     
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  36. Pachalski

    Pachalski Limp Gawd

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    Brilliant, "protective sleeve" added to the add-on list!
     
  37. Kaktus

    Kaktus n00bie

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    Pachalski any chance you could do another air cooler test but this time just compare with/without the bottom mounted fan?
    I think for getting this beta a simple test with just the L12 or any other Cooler would work. I'm just wondering if this bottom fan does anything more than 1c in temps :)
     
  38. Jonas Mellkvist

    Jonas Mellkvist Limp Gawd

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    I think alot wont to se S top hat with 2 Slim Noctua 120 mm vs Xs without top fans in temps.
     
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  39. greyhound

    greyhound n00bie

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    any news about the fitting of a custom loop?
    previously you guys said that at the dreamhack you gave the case to some watercooling expert in order to see if they could fit a custom loop in it as you weren t expert in that area
     
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  40. backfeed

    backfeed Limp Gawd

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    Thanks, great, I'll be waiting (im)patiently. (y)

    Yeah, I have to agree that the pump on the X52 does look very nice.