Epic Games Store

Viper87227

Fully [H]
Joined
Jun 2, 2004
Messages
17,963
It takes serious dedication to deliberately misconstrue what I've written as "finding fault".
I never said it is a bad thing, I said it's value is less than what people make it out to be. And I explained at length why and how is that. But sure go ahead, and ignore every argument. I know you will.

Calling me blinded is ironic since I never said free games were a bad thing.

You'll have to forgive me on this one. Given that you are a poster child for EGS hate, it's hard to see your comments about it as anything but. We can quibble all day long about your intent... but the fact is the conversation was "Yay free games" and your response was "yeah, but...". That's silly to me. You may not see the value, but there isn't a downside to people getting stuff they want for free.

Also, your argument applies only to you. Most people think free stuff is good. You're reasoning otherwise is ludicrous. Flogger nailed it, so I won't dwell on it any longer.

I'm sorry, but I just have to press X to doubt on this one. You literally loved every free game they have given away, and didn't own any of them already? I'm sorry I just find that very hard to believe.

Is it reading you're struggling with? Or comprehension? Kindly point out where I said I literally loved every free game. I said most of the free games were great. And to be clear, so that you can't possibly misconstrue this further, I meant that the selection of games that have been free are mostly games that have been critically well received, not necessarily that I loved (or have even played) every single one. That said, your bastardization of what I said really isn't terribly far off from reality. I don't purchase many indie games, which has made up a large portion of what EGS has given away for free. I have 92 games in my EGS library. I've purchased 7 of them. That means I've got 85 free games from Epic. 17 of them are duplicates (important note: this doesn't make them less good), leaving 68 games I've acquired that I never owned anywhere else. I have not played all of them. There are a handful in there that I may never play, but I have no issue with them being stashed in my account for a rainy day. The rest of what I said holds true. Several of them are games that were in my Steam wish list, things that I would have purchased eventually (you must be very fortunate to purchase every game that interests you immediately. I'm a bit more selective and generally take the "wait for a sale" approach). Several are games I had heard of, but had no interest in purchasing (in genres I never thought I'd get into). I'll use Gone Home as an example. I had zero interest in it. Even once it was in my EGS library it was really not something I thought I'd play. About two weeks ago I was listening to a podcast wherein someone randomly mentioned how good it was, and I said fuck it I'll try it. I loved it. I played it in one go, and had my wife play it the following afternoon while I watched. Immediately after, I went hunting for other, similar games, because I very badly wanted more. How lucky for me that another game I filed away courtesy of Epic, Edith Finch, is one of those similar games. Another fantastic game I'd have never played otherwise. This also led me to Ethan Carter and Dear Esther on Steam, both of which I enjoyed a lot. It also put Everybody's Gone To The Rapture on my radar. I didn't buy this one yet, but I will.

I'm real happy for your success story, no I really am. But this is just anecdotal and not an universal. Most people who like civilization already owns it, you have toadmit that.
And there are demos for many games. You make it sound like epic is giving water to starving people in a drought. That's exactly what I was referring to when I said people give too much credit for the free games.

I'd go even farther and say that pretty much everyone who likes Civilization already owns it. That is EXACTLY my point. My group of gaming buddies weren't people who liked Civilization. They thought it looked boring. They were people who would have NEVER paid money to try it out. I'd often contemplated gifting it to them, but always decided I didn't want to waste the money since they were so adamant it wasn't for them. Then Epic came along and did the heavily lifting for me, and introduced them to a genre they had closed their minds to. That is absolutely universal. Everyone has genre's they either don't like or just don't pay mind to. Everyone has a genre that they wouldn't consider buying games for but might say "eh, why the hell not" if it's provided to them for free. This gives people an opportunity to try genres they've never bothered with, or re-visit ones they've maybe written off.

Using game demos are a parallel to this seems like your grasping at straws. Game demos are remarkably rare these days. It's not 1995.
 

M76

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
11,939
You'll have to forgive me on this one. Given that you are a poster child for EGS hate, it's hard to see your comments about it as anything but. We can quibble all day long about your intent... but the fact is the conversation was "Yay free games" and your response was "yeah, but...". That's silly to me. You may not see the value, but there isn't a downside to people getting stuff they want for free.
I've had the exact same argument about XCOM Chimera, people were defending it based on that it's cheap. It is no excuse, it doesn't make the game fall into any other category because it is cheap or free. My time is still precious.
I'll concede that people with too much time on their hand can enjoy it, but I never said nobody can enjoy them, I said on the community level it's not that big a deal.
Also, your argument applies only to you. Most people think free stuff is good. You're reasoning otherwise is ludicrous. Flogger nailed it, so I won't dwell on it any longer.
I don't know what he nailed, but I always love when people pat each other on the back in a forum for how swell guys they are for agreeing on something. That doesn't prove your point, it just means both of you are equally wrong :p
I literally said free is free blinds people, so of course people like it. That was my exact point in the first place, that people are way too enthusiastic about games that they weren't going to pay money for.


Is it reading you're struggling with? Or comprehension? Kindly point out where I said I literally loved every free game.
No, You're right you didn't say literally, only that most were great.

I said most of the free games were great. And to be clear, so that you can't possibly misconstrue this further, I meant that the selection of games that have been free are mostly games that have been critically well received, not necessarily that I loved (or have even played) every single one. That said, your bastardization of what I said really isn't terribly far off from reality. I don't purchase many indie games, which has made up a large portion of what EGS has given away for free. I have 92 games in my EGS library. I've purchased 7 of them. That means I've got 85 free games from Epic. 17 of them are duplicates (important note: this doesn't make them less good), leaving 68 games I've acquired that I never owned anywhere else. I have not played all of them. There are a handful in there that I may never play, but I have no issue with them being stashed in my account for a rainy day. The rest of what I said holds true. Several of them are games that were in my Steam wish list, things that I would have purchased eventually (you must be very fortunate to purchase every game that interests you immediately. I'm a bit more selective and generally take the "wait for a sale" approach). Several are games I had heard of, but had no interest in purchasing (in genres I never thought I'd get into). I'll use Gone Home as an example. I had zero interest in it. Even once it was in my EGS library it was really not something I thought I'd play. About two weeks ago I was listening to a podcast wherein someone randomly mentioned how good it was, and I said fuck it I'll try it. I loved it. I played it in one go, and had my wife play it the following afternoon while I watched. Immediately after, I went hunting for other, similar games, because I very badly wanted more. How lucky for me that another game I filed away courtesy of Epic, Edith Finch, is one of those similar games. Another fantastic game I'd have never played otherwise. This also led me to Ethan Carter and Dear Esther on Steam, both of which I enjoyed a lot. It also put Everybody's Gone To The Rapture on my radar. I didn't buy this one yet, but I will.
TLDR: Free games are good for those who don't know what they want.
I don't know how many gamers are out there who don't know what genres they are into. But if you like walking simulators try out quantic games, those are on there as well. And no I'm not being sarcastic.
Using game demos are a parallel to this seems like your grasping at straws. Game demos are remarkably rare these days. It's not 1995.
I just heard there is a resurgence of demos, guess they misinformed me.
 
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Viper87227

Fully [H]
Joined
Jun 2, 2004
Messages
17,963
I've had the exact same argument about XCOM Chimera, people were defending it based on that it's cheap. It is no excuse, it doesn't make the game fall into any other category because it is cheap or free. My time is still precious.
I'll concede that people with too much time on their hand can enjoy it, but I never said nobody can enjoy them, I said on the community level it's not that big a deal.

I don't know anything about XCOM, so I've got no context as to how or why that's relatable. But your argument still seems to be that you buy everything you like, which means every game that's been free on EGS either you already have, or it's a game you don't want, and thus a waste of your time. You may not see if, and you'll certainly disagree, but you are in the minority here. Maybe not the majority on [H], which is an enthusiast forum, but for the greater gaming community, you absolutely are the minority. Not everyone is out swooping up every game on their radar. Not everyone has expansive tastes. It's the reason that "wait for the Steam sale" is practically a motto of the PC community. For many people, getting a collection of good games for free is a great way to bolster their video game libraries and allow them to experience things they wouldn't have otherwise spent money on. It's absolutely a good thing, and I'll never understand or agree with any argument to the contrary. I cannot even conceive an argument to the contrary. What you're saying makes no sense to me.

I don't know what he nailed, but I always love when people pat each other on the back in a forum for how swell guys they are for agreeing on something. That doesn't prove your point, it just means both of you are equally wrong :p
I literally said free is free blinds people, so of course people like it. That was my exact point in the first place, that people are way to enthusiastic about games that they weren't going to pay money for.

You're still making a broad assumption that everything that's free on EGS, people either would have already had, or wouldn't want. I totally and completely disagree, and it seems silly to keep repeating it.

No, You're right you didn't say literally, only most were great.

Yeah, and I stand by it. I'm not going to waste my time with it, and I don't expect you to either... but if you were to go and look up the critical reception of every game EGS has given for free, almost every single one (if not every single one) would be overall positive. That doesn't mean they are good games to everyone, or that they are all good games to me. It means they are all games that that have been regarded by the community as a whole as good games. Epic has done a wonderful job at curating quality games for their platform (beyond just the free ones), a stunning contract to Steam which has become the PC equivalent of an app store.

TLDR: Free games are good for those who don't know what they want.

Well, they're good for everyone (but you, apparently)... but that does indeed include people who don't know what they want. Or just people open to trying new things. Or people who don't have a lot of money to spend on games. Or people who are typically very genre focused and don't want to spend money on things they are unsure of. Or people who like building a backlog to play with others (my wife just got into games... like in the past two months. She likes very different things that me. It's great to have a resource to dip into of things I may not like, but she might. Batman, for example. I hate it. She loves it. Thanks to EGS, I have all those games for her to try). There are a ton of really great reasons why amassing a bunch of free games is good. There is literally no logical reason to the contrary.

I don't know how many gamers are out there who don't know what genres they are into. But if you like walking simulators try out quantic games, those are on there as well. And no I'm not being sarcastic.

I'm tempted to disregard just because we don't seem to be able to agree on anything.

Joke... I will check them out, and despite all,appreciate the suggestion. These are the guys that did beyond two souls, heavy rain, and become human right? I've never played any of them. And truthfully, never was sure they'd be for me... but the thought never recrossed my mind after finding an enjoyable chill vibe in walking sims. I'll give them another look (or maybe epic will give me them free if I'm patient enough ;))

I just heard there is a resurgence of demos, guess they misinformed me.

I am genuinely interested to know more. Game demo's use to basically be a given. There was a time when it was weird when a game did not get a demo. Now, when I see a recent game with a "download demo" tag on Steam, it stands out as strange. Demo's started being called beta's. Then these "demos" stopped being a way for consumers to make an informed purchasing decision for free and instead became a pre-order bonus to rid people of their money before a game gets any critical reviews. If game demo's are making a comeback, I sure haven't seen it, and what's more is I absolutely don't see how an argument could be made that they are becoming mainstream like they once were. Not that any of that matters to what we're arguing about.
 
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odditory

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Messages
6,482
Epic publishing & funding = them stealing games. Valve publishing & funding and tethering to Steam = great!

Epic lurking Steam's top50 wishlisted games and then spamming bribe offers to publishers/devs "if you delete your game from Steam we'll give you a bag of money" is not "publishing and funding games"

Epic trying to get a high profile game deleted from Steam the day or week before it was going to release on Steam, after it has soaked up months or years of free advertising and publicity on Steam, IS NOT "publishing and funding games"

Valve has never pulled that kind of bullshit. Epic is doing a lot of things right, but then shooting themselves in the foot being so polarizing with the slimy tactics.
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Flogger23m

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Messages
11,516
Epic lurking Steam's top50 wishlisted games and then spamming bribe offers..

Proof that they're using Steam solely for this.

Besides, you don't need to use Steam's Top 50 list as it isn't a good indicator for success. Half the stuff that shows up there is garbage. Any type of research for supposed market value is going to account for websites, social media presence, market research, ect. Literally every publisher will do this before picking up a game. No one is going to sit hitting F5 on Steam's Top 50 list to figure out the value of an IP. I'm sure it is an okay indicator in its own right, but it will be one of dozens upon dozens of metrics you use to gauge market value.

Only a moron would think that IPs are valued by the Steam Top XYZ page, which literally changes daily last I checked.

...to publishers/devs "if you delete your game from Steam we'll give you a bag of money" is not "publishing and funding games"

Proof? So they're asking people to delete games from Steam yet strangely stay on Steam, albeit with a later release date, for some reason. Odd.

Giving money to fund development and doing marketing is largely what publishers do, FYI. Those advertisements you see on Reddit and social media by Epic? That is publishing. Giving money so they can develop the game longer? Publishing. Giving money so they have an extra cash flow as a studio? Publishing. Marketing and distribution? Publishing.

These days people think companies like Ubisoft or EA are publishers. EA does this a little bit via the EA Originals program, but by and large the "big publishers" no longer publish but rather outright own studios and develop in house. What you're seeing now is more traditional publishing.

Epic trying to get a high profile game deleted from Steam the day or week before it was going to release on Steam, after it has soaked up months or years of free advertising and publicity on Steam, IS NOT "publishing and funding games"

Proof? Deleted from Steam, day before released? Because Epic stole someone's game and put it on their store without the developers consent right? <-- Sarcasm.

Likewise, the developers pay Valve for their marketing. If they decided to switch publishing/distribution platform before release then Valve still gets what was contractually obligated (the Steam publishing fee). Because Valve isn't the actual publisher and doesn't front any money into a game the best they can do is whine; see their Metro Exodus statement.

Now you can say a game developer sucks for doing this but they only have themselves to blame. They made their choice.

Valve has never pulled that kind of bullshit, but by all means keep spouting the false equivalencies. Epic is doing a lot of things right, but then shooting themselves in the foot being so polarizing with the slimy tactics.

Guess you never heard of Portal. Independent devs, project was bought and tethered to Steam. It isn't my logic, but yours, to claim it "was stolen" and they were "given bags of money" to finish and release it under Valve. Likewise for L4D, "stolen" from Turtle Rock Studios. Or Halo "stolen" by "bags of money" Microsoft who swapped platforms for the game. There are all kinds of examples of games swapping developers between sequels or right before release. It isn't as common these days because that model of publishing is largely gone and development/publishing is done top down now.

What you're seeing is a return to a traditional publishing model. Money + distribution + marketing, retaining of IP and the ability to take your game elsewhere in the future. Epic is acting like a traditional publisher. Valve never made that leap. They work as a distributor and someone who takes over studios/IPs when it interests them. Which is perfectly fine.


Now if you mentioned exclusivity rights, you'd have a point. Epic has done this in the past. Typically done by paying you for sales up front (read: you don't actually get more money, just get it sooner). In exchange for quicker cash flow you Epic gets exclusivity rights. The terms vary from deal to deal and I doubt you'll get specifics on all of them as I'm sure both parties will keep it sealed. Example. If Valve (or insert other company) wants exclusivity rights and to be able to put it on their client day 1, then they'll have to pay up. They aren't working hard enough to gain customers (devs/publishers). Turns on being on a "top 50" for one website list doesn't hold as much value as early cash flow or other tangible benefits.
 

polonyc2

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
19,881
Tim Sweeney says Epic Games Store giveaways help boost sales on other platforms

"You're not going to go out and buy—If you're not into games like Satisfactory, you're not going to go out and spend money to buy Satisfactory. But if you get it for free you realize it's an awesome game. People have discovered a lot of great games that way," Sweeney said

"It's been a benefit for game developers. Most developers who launch their games for free on the store found that their sales on Steam and on console platforms actually increased after they went free on Epic because of increased awareness. And so it's been a really positive thing and it's brought tens of millions of new users into the Epic Games ecosystem, and that's been a wonderful thing for the company."

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/epic-stores-free-games-end-up-selling-better-after/1100-6477948/
 

Jumpem

Gawd
Joined
Dec 1, 2000
Messages
898
EGS is much more visually appealing. I also like that you primarily see professionally developed quality games when you go to their main page.

Steam is cluttered and seems to push a lot of indie junk. The discussion page for each game is about the one unique good thing I can think of.
 

Viper87227

Fully [H]
Joined
Jun 2, 2004
Messages
17,963
EGS is much more visually appealing. I also like that you primarily see professionally developed quality games when you go to their main page.

Steam is cluttered and seems to push a lot of indie junk. The discussion page for each game is about the one unique good thing I can think of.

This is one of my biggest issues with Steam these days. Steam used to curate it's content. There was a time when it was noteworthy when a bad and/or broken game ended up on Steam. But as Steam grew and Valve realized how much more money there was in game distribution versus game development, they just sort of let loose. These days, the majority of content on Steam is hot garage. It's like a mobile app store. Adding things like curators helps, but it's still awful trying to discover content on Steam. It's fine if you know what you want, but that's where it ends. I'm sure there are people into niche genres that appreciate the openness of Steam, but I really miss the days when Valve policed what was allowed. The fact that EGS is curated is actually a big boon for me. I hope it stays that way.

I do agree that the resources Steam allots to each game is really useful, however. Discussion pages are incredibly useful, as is the news and guides. The fact that each game gets its own mini-community is fantastic. If Epic added those things, it would likely become my preferred platform.
 

grifter_66

Gawd
Joined
Jun 2, 2005
Messages
1,000
This is one of my biggest issues with Steam these days. Steam used to curate it's content. There was a time when it was noteworthy when a bad and/or broken game ended up on Steam. But as Steam grew and Valve realized how much more money there was in game distribution versus game development, they just sort of let loose. These days, the majority of content on Steam is hot garage. It's like a mobile app store. Adding things like curators helps, but it's still awful trying to discover content on Steam. It's fine if you know what you want, but that's where it ends. I'm sure there are people into niche genres that appreciate the openness of Steam, but I really miss the days when Valve policed what was allowed. The fact that EGS is curated is actually a big boon for me. I hope it stays that way.

I do agree that the resources Steam allots to each game is really useful, however. Discussion pages are incredibly useful, as is the news and guides. The fact that each game gets its own mini-community is fantastic. If Epic added those things, it would likely become my preferred platform.

Agreed.

Like a lot of us here I've literally been using Steam since day 1, it was a buggy, poorly designed pain in the ass (and it still is in a lot of way) but I wanted HL2 and Counter Strike Source. It took a few years for it to come into it's own and part of how it grew it's customer base was having exclusives and great sales in their store.

Now it's just a pain in the ass to use, full of such a huge amount of shit I don't even browse anymore. It's primary use for me is its game discussion forums and user reviews. I buy games from whoever gives me the best deals and/or makes it the easiest.

If EGS rolled out those two features it would be my PC platform of choice. I also think Epic is doing and has been doing amazing things for PC gaming and gaming in general.

I genuinely believe people who actually hate EGS and refuse to buy anything from them, even if they want a game they sell, are too stupid to understand how business works and that a larger cut for developers is a great thing.

I'm going to go play Civ 6 now, A game I'm really enjoying and never would have played if not for EGS.
 

limitedaccess

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 10, 2010
Messages
7,594
I actually disagree with features like those. I've always been of the belief that that game store should simply be bare bones game distribution, this is actually the best outcome for consumers over the long run. This means there is zero attachment with consumers to any particular store.

Why are all those other features actually bad for consumers? They instead turn the game store itself more into a platform, and those features are what pressures people into platform lock in. But the tech industry in general knows this and the long term value in this, they users to buy into and be tied into their platform, the more tied in they are the more locked in they are into not only using it but feeling strong attachment to it. Hence the Steam situation in as an example where isn't just that people have a business/client relation but they are actually ardent fans of it. Steam is much more than game store, which is why if other platforms rise up and diminish Steam's relevance they are a threat.

Here's a pretty simply analogy that people here might find relevant. All those extra features game stores offer are basically the same as ISP e-mail addresses. You probably know people who end up using one and find it hard to ever switch ISPs due to losing the email address due to how long they've been using it.
 

Denpepe

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
1,802
Agreed.

Like a lot of us here I've literally been using Steam since day 1, it was a buggy, poorly designed pain in the ass (and it still is in a lot of way) but I wanted HL2 and Counter Strike Source. It took a few years for it to come into it's own and part of how it grew it's customer base was having exclusives and great sales in their store.

Now it's just a pain in the ass to use, full of such a huge amount of shit I don't even browse anymore. It's primary use for me is its game discussion forums and user reviews. I buy games from whoever gives me the best deals and/or makes it the easiest.

If EGS rolled out those two features it would be my PC platform of choice. I also think Epic is doing and has been doing amazing things for PC gaming and gaming in general.

I genuinely believe people who actually hate EGS and refuse to buy anything from them, even if they want a game they sell, are too stupid to understand how business works and that a larger cut for developers is a great thing.

I'm going to go play Civ 6 now, A game I'm really enjoying and never would have played if not for EGS.

This may not last that much longer on EGS according to this article https://www.gamespot.com/articles/the-epic-games-store-will-launch-on-mobile-devices/1100-6477950/
 

M76

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
11,939
I don't know anything about XCOM, so I've got no context as to how or why that's relatable.
It's relatable in a sense that I don't judge a game by price. I judge it on whether it is worth wasting time on or not. I assumed other people did that too. It is either I want to play a game or I don't.

But your argument still seems to be that you buy everything you like, which means every game that's been free on EGS either you already have, or it's a game you don't want, and thus a waste of your time.
Yes that is exactly my point. Any game I wanted to try from the free games I already did.

You may not see if, and you'll certainly disagree, but you are in the minority here. Maybe not the majority on [H], which is an enthusiast forum, but for the greater gaming community, you absolutely are the minority. Not everyone is out swooping up every game on their radar. Not everyone has expansive tastes. It's the reason that "wait for the Steam sale" is practically a motto of the PC community. For many people, getting a collection of good games for free is a great way to bolster their video game libraries and allow them to experience things they wouldn't have otherwise spent money on.
I was always talking about actual gamers, not casual gamers, of course they don't care about any of this. There is no such thing as casual gamer community, it stops being casual as soon as you have a community.
Wait for steam sale is the motto of people who aren't at all enthusiastic about gaming. Let me give you an analogy. Would you call someone a movie enthusiast who always waits until films go to Video or streaming?
It's absolutely a good thing, and I'll never understand or agree with any argument to the contrary. I cannot even conceive an argument to the contrary. What you're saying makes no sense to me.
It's really hard to argue when you refuse to recognize the point. Now for the third time: I didn't say free games are bad, I said it is not as big a deal.


You're still making a broad assumption that everything that's free on EGS, people either would have already had, or wouldn't want. I totally and completely disagree, and it seems silly to keep repeating it.
Epic could easily shed some light on this if they released a statistic on how many of the redeemed free games were actually installed and played for more than 10 minutes. You'd be surprised. I saw a statistic some years ago that a third of all steam games that people own were never even installed, and most of that are games people paid money for.

Yeah, and I stand by it. I'm not going to waste my time with it, and I don't expect you to either... but if you were to go and look up the critical reception of every game EGS has given for free, almost every single one (if not every single one) would be overall positive.
Oh no you don't, where are you taking the goalpost, come back with it! What I doubted was you personally liking most of the free games, not their critical reception. You made it sound that you loved almost all if not all of the games they were offering. But it is besides the point now either way.


That doesn't mean they are good games to everyone, or that they are all good games to me. It means they are all games that that have been regarded by the community as a whole as good games. Epic has done a wonderful job at curating quality games for their platform (beyond just the free ones), a stunning contract to Steam which has become the PC equivalent of an app store.
If you put it like that to begin with then there wouldn't be any disagreement. And I've been complaining about the shit quality of the steam store for years, but of course that is never noticed. But when I say something less than an absolute praise of the EGS I'm automatically a steam cheerleader.
Well, they're good for everyone (but you, apparently)... .
Still It's not about being good enough for me. I was just stating that it is not as big a contribution in the greater scheme as people make it out to be.
I'm tempted to disregard just because we don't seem to be able to agree on anything.
Now that would actually be petty.

Joke... I will check them out, and despite all,appreciate the suggestion. These are the guys that did beyond two souls, heavy rain, and become human right? I've never played any of them. And truthfully, never was sure they'd be for me... but the thought never recrossed my mind after finding an enjoyable chill vibe in walking sims. I'll give them another look (or maybe epic will give me them free if I'm patient enough ;))
Yeah, same people. They are not traditional walking sims as there are a lot more QTEs in these games than in gone home or life is strange for example. If you don't like QTEs at all you might wanna skip Heavy Rain as that is the most heavy on those. Fun fact: Heavy Rain was originally developed for PC, until Sony swept in and paid them to become an exclusive studio. And now that they bought themselves out of the sony deal, they immediately sell out to Epic. So i shouldn't even be recommending their games.


I am genuinely interested to know more. Game demo's use to basically be a given. There was a time when it was weird when a game did not get a demo. Now, when I see a recent game with a "download demo" tag on Steam, it stands out as strange. Demo's started being called beta's. Then these "demos" stopped being a way for consumers to make an informed purchasing decision for free and instead became a pre-order bonus to rid people of their money before a game gets any critical reviews. If game demo's are making a comeback, I sure haven't seen it, and what's more is I absolutely don't see how an argument could be made that they are becoming mainstream like they once were. Not that any of that matters to what we're arguing about.
I just saw a youtube video on the topic about demos making a comeback, because gog released the demo of system shock remastered. But I haven't seen much else either.
 

M76

[H]F Junkie
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Messages
11,939
EGS is much more visually appealing. I also like that you primarily see professionally developed quality games when you go to their main page.

Steam is cluttered and seems to push a lot of indie junk. The discussion page for each game is about the one unique good thing I can think of.
Steam is crap lately, well it has been for years. I didn't purchase games on it for years now. And I don't even go to the store page. It is my preferred platform because it has the most features and easiest to use. Plus the discussions, reviews, workshops. Especially the workshop. Visually stunning usually means inefficient. still from all the launchers steam is the best and easiest to use, and the worst right now is the windows store.

I do agree that the resources Steam allots to each game is really useful, however. Discussion pages are incredibly useful, as is the news and guides. The fact that each game gets its own mini-community is fantastic. If Epic added those things, it would likely become my preferred platform.
I don't have a preferred platform, the only reason I'm ignoring EGS is because of the shitty deals they have been making snatching up games that already had announced steam release dates and steam pages.
The other store I'm boycotting is the windows store, for being utter garbage (download errors, slow downloads, not even able to choose install location, all modding impossible)
 

Newbie_52

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Messages
158
Has any games been announced for steam and then switched to egs in 2020? i haven't heard of any but maybe there was...
 

Jumpem

Gawd
Joined
Dec 1, 2000
Messages
898
I actually disagree with features like those. I've always been of the belief that that game store should simply be bare bones game distribution, this is actually the best outcome for consumers over the long run. This means there is zero attachment with consumers to any particular store.

Why are all those other features actually bad for consumers? They instead turn the game store itself more into a platform, and those features are what pressures people into platform lock in. But the tech industry in general knows this and the long term value in this, they users to buy into and be tied into their platform, the more tied in they are the more locked in they are into not only using it but feeling strong attachment to it. Hence the Steam situation in as an example where isn't just that people have a business/client relation but they are actually ardent fans of it. Steam is much more than game store, which is why if other platforms rise up and diminish Steam's relevance they are a threat.

Here's a pretty simply analogy that people here might find relevant. All those extra features game stores offer are basically the same as ISP e-mail addresses. You probably know people who end up using one and find it hard to ever switch ISPs due to losing the email address due to how long they've been using it.
It's easy to get a game somewhere else and still use the Steam discussion board for it.
 

GoldenTiger

Fully [H]
Joined
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Messages
20,789
It's easy to get a game somewhere else and still use the Steam discussion board for it.
B-b-but then you aren't feeling lord gaben's warmth by giving him all your money and heart and soul!! Nooooooooooooooo!
 

Viper87227

Fully [H]
Joined
Jun 2, 2004
Messages
17,963
Do you still need to run EGS to play EA/Origin purchased games?

I didn't think you ever did? They activate on Origin, and I thought you could launch them from there. I know for ubisoft games that's how it works. I bought Valhalla and once it activated I installed it through uplay. Egs doesn't even show it installed, and it works fine.

I'll try something ea today and let you know.
 

Blade-Runner

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
3,553
I didn't think you ever did? They activate on Origin, and I thought you could launch them from there. I know for ubisoft games that's how it works. I bought Valhalla and once it activated I installed it through uplay. Egs doesn't even show it installed, and it works fine.

I'll try something ea today and let you know.

Great, thanks buddy!
 

Viper87227

Fully [H]
Joined
Jun 2, 2004
Messages
17,963
Great, thanks buddy!
I guess I was mistaken. Origin labels it as an EGS title. I launched it with EGS exited, and it launched EGS prior to launching the game. When I exited the game, EGS remained running.

This is with fallen order, which was purchased on and installed via EGS.
 

Blade-Runner

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
3,553
I guess I was mistaken. Origin labels it as an EGS title. I launched it with EGS exited, and it launched EGS prior to launching the game. When I exited the game, EGS remained running.

This is with fallen order, which was purchased on and installed via EGS.

Bugger, was thinking I could buy some Origin games without having them permanently tied to EGS.
 

Blade-Runner

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
3,553
Does it really matter though? Just have a shortcut for the game on your desktop. Whichever launcher the game is tied to comes up for a couple seconds and then the game starts.

I don't like the idea of permanently tying my other game accounts to EGS considering that Epic is 40% owned by Tencent. I don't trust either company.
 
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DPI

[H]F Junkie
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I don't like the idea of permanently tying my other game accounts to EGS considering that Epic is 40% owned by Tencent. I don't trust either company.
That I could deal with if that was the worst part of EGS - I keep nothing important on my gaming PC - I just don't like their tactic of trying to block or remove games from being sold on other marketplaces. Mortal Shell was the last straw.

Now I don't care how many desperation-freebies they try to give away, even if Cyberpunk was free on there I will not install their launcher ever.

Their long game is partly in trying to boost their usercount so they can ask investors to enable even more of their shenanigans.
 
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Drexion

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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Messages
1,380
Mortal Shell
Funny you should mention that game, because the rumor is that it was dead in the water due to lack of funding and the epic deal is what saved it giving the devs enough resources to complete it to a shipped state.
Epic games is very very helpful towards indie developers, providing them with an insane amount of resources and game development tools for free, something no other platform does for it's devs.
I will not install their launcher ever
Right now Steam is owned by 'good guys' but that could change any moment. People quit, they resign, they retire, they die. And any number of 'evil corporations' like Apple or Disney can come swooping in with a buyout any moment, and turn Steam into something that's 100x worse than anyone here can ever imagine. And in a moment like that everyone will be glad alternatives exist.
 

DPI

[H]F Junkie
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Funny you should mention that game, because the rumor is that it was dead in the water due to lack of funding and the epic deal is what saved it giving the devs enough resources to complete it to a shipped state. Epic games is very very helpful towards indie developers, providing them with an insane amount of resources and game development tools for free, something no other platform does for it's devs.
The "game was dead in the water before Epic saved the day" narrative of the Mortal Shell devs was face-saving propaganda due to backlash. The reality was they had enough capital and inertia to co-develop both Xbox and PS4 versions simultaneously with PC. Three platforms. They weren't some poor little Indie just tryin' to make it in this world. They enjoyed free advertising on Steam for a year, then pulled the rug out a week before the public beta - they were that far along.

Contrast that to an actual Indie - a one-man developer that created DARQ - who Epic approached because it was trending on Steam's top-wishlisted, and when he told them "I don't want to let my existing fans down by removing it on Steam, can't I just sell on both stores?", Epic told him "sorry, no deal if it is not removed from Steam".

And that's one of the only devs we really know about, because most devs that turn down a devil's deal with EGS aren't talking about it since there's no upside.
 
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Call me a whore but I just like those free games. That's the only reason have an Epic games store account.
 

DPI

[H]F Junkie
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Messages
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Right now Steam is owned by 'good guys' but that could change any moment. People quit, they resign, they retire, they die. And any number of 'evil corporations' like Apple or Disney can come swooping in with a buyout any moment, and turn Steam into something that's 100x worse than anyone here can ever imagine. And in a moment like that everyone will be glad alternatives exist.
I don't care who Steam's owned by, and they're not good or bad - they're a corporation and not my friend. I'm fine with buying on Origin, GOG/Galaxy, UPlay, Windows Store. But the moment one of them starts using consumer-hostile tactics to suppress competition and limit consumer choice, we got a problem.
 
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Drexion

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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Messages
1,380
I'm fine with buying on Origin, UPlay, Windows Store.
Your reasoning doesn't hold water as all of those (except gog) have purchased exclusive distribution rights to games. Either directly by buying the distribution rights, or indirectly by outrightly buying the studio which makes the games. The console manufacturers, Sony, Nintendo and MS also do this on a regular bases every generation, do you have unreasonable dislike/hate for them as well?

co-develop both Xbox and PS4 versions simultaneously with PC.
Know why an indie dev could develop for all three platforms simultaneously? Because of Unreal Engine's packager, which can compile the same code bases for multiple platforms without extra work needed by the developer. A huge blessing for indie devs, provided by Epic Games for 100% free. Maybe you should sign up for an Epic account and see for yourself how much insane resources they make available for free for indie devs who wouldn't be able to release their games without it.
 

DPI

[H]F Junkie
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Messages
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Your reasoning doesn't hold water as all of those (except gog) have purchased exclusive distribution rights to games. Either directly by buying the distribution rights, or indirectly by outrightly buying the studio which makes the games. The console manufacturers, Sony, Nintendo and MS also do this on a regular bases every generation, do you have unreasonable dislike/hate for them as well?
There's a difference between a publisher funding a project at or near its inception in exchange for exclusivity- "Hey cool idea, we believe in this, here's funding to make it happen", and a guy at Epic monitoring Steam's Top50-wishlisted to see what's popular, then spamming bribe/poach offers to get the game removed from Steam and put on EGS only. Particularly irksome when this happens close to the game's imminent launch on Steam after it's soaked up free advertising and gained a fan following, like Mortal Shell that was pulled literally a week before the public beta test. How anyone would argue in favor of this kind of bullshit is baffling.
 

Drexion

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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Messages
1,380
How anyone would argue in favor of this kind of bullshit is baffling.
Human history is littered with examples of how companies with monopolies ended up abusing their position in an exploitative manner. To the point where most governments started making anti-monopoly laws, breaking up companies which had too much marketshare. (there's even ex-Valve employees speaking out against their 'effective monopoly' and how it should be broken up)

Your convenience of having your game shortcuts in one window isn't worth the potential abuse of power that may happen in the future. I wonder what all the Valve defenders will say if Zuckerberg outright buys Valve tomorrow and links all Steam accounts with facebook, making a FB account mandatory for using your Steam account, like he did with Oculus.
 

Krenum

Fully [H]
Joined
Apr 29, 2005
Messages
17,770
Call me a whore but I just like those free games. That's the only reason have an Epic games store account.
I only installed Epics Game store to get the free games. And I probably won't even play them after finding out that they can't be downloaded and saved on PC for future use without having Epic Game Store installed.
 

sharknice

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Messages
2,411
I only installed Epics Game store to get the free games. And I probably won't even play them after finding out that they can't be downloaded and saved on PC for future use without having Epic Game Store installed.

Nobody cares. The EGS hate train is gone. Normal people are annoyed by the EGS hate spam. Stop spamming this crap.
 

Aireoth

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
5,062
I use ESG, and if normal people are happy with it they are stupid.

1. no checkout cart, you have to buy games one at a time (wtf)...
2. Stupid popups that tab you out of games to announce something (wtf)...
3. The interface is hot garbage, slow, unresponsive, cluttered. Its stupid to access the game controls (mods, verify, uninstall, etc) and often just launch the game by mistake.
 
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