Epic Games Store

Discussion in 'PC Gaming & Hardware' started by Blade-Runner, Dec 5, 2018.

  1. Comixbooks

    Comixbooks Ignore Me

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    I wonder what that Batman game is for next week in the Free section on Epic?
    I don't think they would give any of the Rocksteady Batman games out.
     
  2. Ranulfo

    Ranulfo [H]ard|Gawd

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    Probably is the tell tale batman game.
     
  3. Denpepe

    Denpepe [H]ard|Gawd

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    Looks like there are some lego dudes in that graphic thingamajig
     
  4. odditory

    odditory [H]ardness Supreme

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    Steam: "Publish your game here or GOG or UPlay or Windows Store or Itch.io or Origin or EGS or anywhere you please, we'll never tell you not to sell your game anywhere else"

    EGS: "OUR STORE ONLY"

    Epic supporters: "we dont understand what a monopoly is"
     
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  5. Flogger23m

    Flogger23m [H]ardForum Junkie

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    A monopoly would be whoever has a substantial market-share. Steam is the closest thing but it is hard to say it does when you have big alternatives for many of the major games (Origin and Uplay). And Steam's lead is lessening by the month with things like Bethsada, Epic and Activision's thing. Epic has a long way to go to get anywhere close to being a monopoly.

    The irony of that post is you don't know what a monopoly is either. :p

    And what are these?

    https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/control/bz6w9lrpc26w?activetab=pivot:eek:verviewtab
    https://store.ubi.com/us/anno-1800/5b647010ef3aa548048c5958.html?lang=en_US

    Looks like you don't understand what the world "only" means either.

    Gamers are just like politicians these days. Either outright lying, speaking half truths or using emotional assumptions when a quick bit of thought and a 10 second Google search can give them more insight.
     
  6. jiminator

    jiminator Capt Obvious

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    the irony is that the same people complaining that EGS is "breaking up the PC gaming market" don't blink an eye as companies get shut down or bought and dismantled.
    EGS is not a magic solution but paying 30% of all income to what is essentially a webhosting company is pretty ridiculous.
     
  7. dragon69

    dragon69 69's Dragons

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    Wow, still on this same discussion? It was fun for the first 5 pages, but *click* the unwatch thread.
     
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  8. horrorshow

    horrorshow [H]ardness Supreme

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    Nobody says "Jolly-Gee after a decade we get a new/legit Borderlands?!??"

    Call me crazy but it's almost like some of you guys encourage a monopoly..

    TLDR: Read the ToS and invest your money accordingly. (I do think this has gotten way out of hand, almost to a brand-loyalty level)

    Enjoy the game; it's the weekend :)
     
  9. Ranulfo

    Ranulfo [H]ard|Gawd

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    I'm not seeing any price discounts for buying games at stores that pay only 12% for that web hosting, are you? Well, they did have that one month sale where they subsidized many games for $10 discounts which led several game devs to take their game off the store for the month of the sale.
     
  10. odditory

    odditory [H]ardness Supreme

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    That's certainly a fun, made-up definition.

    The takeaway isn't that EGS is a monopoly. It's that they're engaging in monopolistic business tactics, and telegraphing their intentions to be one. "You have to buy it from us or you can't buy it at all". That's inherently anti-consumer. And if the bribery tactics work, there would be no reason for them to ever stop. Nor would they have any incentive to improve their abysmal service level or nonexistent store feature set, if enough head-in-sand gamers buy their dogfood anyway.

    But by all means, stick to "the cancer has a long way to go before it's shutting down your vital organs, might as well just ignore it until then." That always works.

    What ARE those? Sweeney couldn't get a publisher to sell out 100% to EGS on a few titles, proves what? That Sweeney didn't want those on EGS exclusively, and wanted people to have a choice where to buy them? No. A few exceptions don't disprove the rule, nor Epic's intent.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019
  11. jiminator

    jiminator Capt Obvious

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    You are talking nonsense. Most of these games have console versions. many of them are also on steam and others are available on humble store, still using the EGS launcher, but a launcher does not make a "monopoly".
    you want to bitch about the store, how you have to make 2 transactions to get the double free games, then fine. But don't make up reasons to be angry.

    OH, THOSE FKIN bastards stole steam games by paying the developers more for them. Well no shit. The right to sell games is a commodity. Google is getting into it, apple is getting into it and I suspect Amazon will once they see it makes money. The era of steam raking in the cash is gone. They are going to have to compete to get games like everyone else will. If they don't they will get left out. Nobody is going to pay 30% for a webhosting service if they have cheaper options available. Sorry but the customers do not matter in this regard. On the one hand you have people that "want it in their steam library" and on the other hand you have companies fighting for survival. A report came out a few days ago that talked about how much money games make on steam.

    https://www.videogamer.com/news/steams-sliding-revenue-indicates-that-pc-games-are-not-selling-well-

    steam has so much trash on it that it pretty much ensures smaller games will be lost in with all the asset flips.
     
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  12. Ranulfo

    Ranulfo [H]ard|Gawd

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    And who pushed for indie games and asset flips to get easier access to Steam a few years ago? Indie devs and some of their supporters.
     
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  13. MavericK

    MavericK Zero Cool

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    Then why do people keep calling Steam one? Are you saying those people are idiots? I mean, I agree, but people keep saying it anyway.

    They matter in as much as, you know, wanting to stay in business.

    What companies are "fighting for survival"? It's certainly not the AAA publishers, they make record profits every year. If you're talking about indies...yeah, I have more sympathy for them taking an EGS deal. But a lot of these companies are not indies...4A Games, Gearbox, these are not small studios that desperately need cash.

    Also, that article seems to indicate that the future is subscription services and cloud gaming. If that's the case, I guess I'll find a new hobby because I'm not interested in any of that.

    Yeah, that has always been an issue with Steam, I agree with you there. I would suggest that going EGS exclusive is not the solution to that problem, though. Maybe if you sold your game on all other platforms BUT Steam, they would get the picture. But that's not what EGS is about here, they're about creating a closed system where they and they alone rake in tons of cash.
     
  14. Flogger23m

    Flogger23m [H]ardForum Junkie

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    When the whole world is wrong except you, maybe it isn't the whole world that has gone mad but you:

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/monopoly
    https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/monopoly.asp
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly


    Then why claim it is?

    The goal of a business is to gain market share and make money. Every business engages in monopolistic business practices; few reach that status. The gaming industry is far, far from having a monopoly on game publishing. In fact it has more diversity than ever.

    Same deal with EA, Ubisoft & Valve. Invest in something and require it be sold on your own store. The horror. The developers/publishers can always choose someone else to partner with.

    It really isn't. You're confusing "I don't like this change" with "anti-consumer".

    Be honest, you don't care about anyone having a monopoly on PC game distribution. The market is far more crowded now than it was in 2011 during Steam's height. That was as close to a monopoly PC gaming ever had and we didn't hear these complaints back then. And honestly, it was a pretty good time for PC gaming at Steam's height. You're insisting that a monopoly is inherently bad but this isn't always the case. The only reason you've jumped on the "monopoly is bad in 2019" bandwagon is because you're copy/pasting someone's rant.

    What an interesting way of saying "I was wrong".

    Kind of like the whole argument that they don't allow 3rd party key sites which some people here still deny (okay, the first two weeks Metro Exodus didn't have an option). Or regional pricing (same deal there).

    If you just said "I don't like EGS because the launcher sucks" it would be much more truthful and get to the point much quicker. And frankly, is all the justification you need to not like it. But the false issues, muddling up of terms and outright denials when shown wrong is just laughable.

    And this is the crux of the issue here. Steam has gotten lazy and arrogant. Unless they change course (and random Streamers on store pages/library won't help) they will quickly get left behind with the many subscription services or clients coming out. Classic example of a company having a massive hold on an industry and being too slow to react to new players in the market.

    Currently Steam carries a prestigious branding when it comes to PC games but that won't last forever. The more developers that run off and do their own thing (Activision, Bethsada) or go to new competitors (EGS) the less people will care about Steam. People use Steam for the games, not to level up their Steam account. When all they have left are asset flips they won't be able to command the market like they did in the past.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019
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  15. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    I'd like some proof to back that statement up. I don't recall anyone demanding that asset flippers, scammers, and the like got easier access. In fact, one of the things people have been calling for for years is that Valve get off their ass and actually care about what goes up on the store.

    A few years back Forbes (I believe) estimated that Steam controlled anywhere between 50 and 75% of the entire PC gaming market. Even at the low end of that number its fucking huge, especially when you consider things like Minecraft, Fortnite, all the Blizzard titles, League, and the various "competing" platforms. For years Valve has essentially controlled the PC digital games market. They set the standards and everyone else followed or got left behind. Whether you want to call it a monopoly or not they effectively had (and continue to have) a stranglehold on the market and it has made them get incredibly lazy and complacent.
     
  16. Denpepe

    Denpepe [H]ard|Gawd

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    I wonder how they count that, as some games not on steam have huge playerbases some data about 2018 talks about 90 million monthly users, thats around the playerbase of lol but if you look at the nr of games then steam which has a huge catalog will fare differently, just that 95% of that catalog is crap that noone wants/needs.

    Battle.net only has a handfull of games but they sell millions of each while steam has 30k+ games where most of them only sell a couple thousand and they lost some of the biggest sellers over the last couple of years.

    As an indie unless you can generate some hype there is little to no visibility in the steam catalog for your game, which might also happen on the EGS store if they deceide some day to let (almost) everyone iin.
     
  17. Ranulfo

    Ranulfo [H]ard|Gawd

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    Steam Greenlight program and now early access. Let us in they cried. Sure, Steam could curate their store better but its rather rich to hear small indies complain about it too much. There is always the new guy as it were in Itch.io for indies.
     
  18. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    I imagine the large spread of that percentage is due to the challenge of gathering what data is available and estimating off of it. Though this was was a few years back, when Steamspy was still around so that might have made getting some information a little easier.

    Even without opening the floodgates, if Epic signs deals with too many studios at once it will cause smaller games to get lost in the shuffle. Them going after AAA publishers and developers like Ubi and Gearbox is a quick way to turn EGS into a store where indies are buried under big games.

    Greenlight and Early Access would have been great programs, if Valve cared enough to pay attention to the games up there. The reason everyone called for an end to Greenlight was because they wanted Valve to replace it with something better, something that Valve would pay attention to. Instead they did Steam Direct, making the problem even worse.
     
  19. jiminator

    jiminator Capt Obvious

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    Epic isn't signing any deals with anyone except people that can bring traffic to their store. They can make their guarantees and fulfill them by giving the game away as a weekly special.

    Steam screwed up in allowing so much trash into their system. If you don't read about it you will never see them.
     
  20. jiminator

    jiminator Capt Obvious

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  21. Comixbooks

    Comixbooks Ignore Me

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    It was the Lego Batman triology the entire Rocksteady Batman series is going on Epic.

    They improved the layout today so you can view only installed games in your Library as well as a list view.
     
  22. Domingo

    Domingo [H]ard as it Gets

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    The free Batman games this month = pretty great. That's a boatload of good content at no charge.
     
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  23. Comixbooks

    Comixbooks Ignore Me

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    Metro Exodus 2033 never even grazed that game on Steam think it's the remastered version.
     
  24. Comixbooks

    Comixbooks Ignore Me

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    Damn they are all free except Batman Origins is not included but I have all the games on Steam already.
     
  25. Flogger23m

    Flogger23m [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Click this link here:
    https://www.pcgamer.com/the-batman-arkham-and-lego-trilogies-are-free-on-the-epic-store-this-week/

    You have to claim each bundle separately. Arkham Origins isn't included.

    I liked Asylum, hated City, thought Knight was okay but far too long and too many side quests. Origins was a mix between Asylum and Knight and felt a lot easier which was decent but still had the same flaws, but not a horrible game. But never tried the Lego games, grabbed them anyways. Are they worth playing? Never understood the idea of a Lego game.
     
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  26. Comixbooks

    Comixbooks Ignore Me

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    Batman lego is training wheels for kids game probably without all the violence.
     
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  27. jiminator

    jiminator Capt Obvious

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    some people had said the lego games were better than the others...
     
  28. polonyc2

    polonyc2 [H]ard as it Gets

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    what an absolute steal!...one of the best gaming trilogies ever and it still holds up today...plus the last 2 are total graphical eye candy...Epic Store giving them away for free!
     
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  29. zrikz

    zrikz Gawd

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    Just as I suspected, no impact for having it on epic instead of steam. Most people will go to where the good game is.
     
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  30. jiminator

    jiminator Capt Obvious

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    Just to be fair, I don't know what that statement means. There are no numbers for comparison. Are they including console sales in that 5 million? PC sales are typically about 30% of total, so.... 1.5 million maybe? I calculate they saved about 8 million vs having it on steam.
     
  31. zrikz

    zrikz Gawd

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    Blurb from the press release.
    Would be curious to know total pc sales though. Either way it seems to have sold better in comparison to BL2 release on steam for pc sales comparison.
     
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  32. Comixbooks

    Comixbooks Ignore Me

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    Metro 2033 Redux is free own the game on steam but its the regular version.
     
  33. Pringle

    Pringle 2[H]4U

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    You would need to know what portion of that is PC sales in order to make that assumption.
     
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  34. Domingo

    Domingo [H]ard as it Gets

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    I'm accumulating a pretty decent library of free games from the Epic store. Borderlands is the only game I've purchased, but I have like 10 (good) games in my library.
     
  35. Comixbooks

    Comixbooks Ignore Me

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    Yeah you could spend s good chunk of a year trying to finish all the games offered in the past few weeks.
     
  36. odditory

    odditory [H]ardness Supreme

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    The PC userbase growing massively since 2012, the continuous BL1 and BL2 $5 bundle sales throughout the last 7 years might have helped just a little in growing the fanbase and building insane anticipation and hype for a sequel. Was anyone shocked when GTA5 outsold GTA4?

    I'm just not sure why people keep mentioning a big sequel outselling it's predecessor like it's big news. If the point is "people don't care where they buy a game (on PC) after all", that's quite a broad brush, and the only people that can honestly answer whether or not people cared is 2K, since only they know the real EGS sales numbers.

    2K could have sold at least a million more copies had they made it available on multiple PC stores and letting consumers decide, rather than creating a headwind and being controversial and polarizing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2019
  37. GoldenTiger

    GoldenTiger [H]ard as it Gets

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    You just contradicted yourself.
     
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  38. Flogger23m

    Flogger23m [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Yeah, that number is being pulled out of his rear. The game sold 5 million copies so far. The average for AAA games is around 30% sales go to the PC version, which would be close to around 1.5 million copies so far. Obviously putting it on Steam (honestly, no one else cares about any other client, BL2 was exclusive to Steam and no one cared) would have netted some extra sales, but not by that much. ~2.5 million for the PC version of the game out of 6 million sales would be around 45%. That just isn't happening outside of "PC Master Race" fantasies. And this is likely the killer app for EGS (that isn't Fortnite). Over time the amount of people skeptical of buying on EGS will go down so this is increasingly becoming irrelevant.

    Let us look at Witcher 3, the PC gamer's go to poster child for being PC oriented. A developer extremely popular on PC and a series that had not yet been released on consoles, aside from a belayed and not so good Xbox 360 port a year after the PC release (Witcher 2). Pretty much a new IP on consoles with no fan base. Yet, PC gamers only accounted for 31% of the early sales:

    Witcher3.jpg

    As time went on PC sales started to outsell console versions but the amount of total sales by the numbers in 2016 and 2017 likely pales in comparison to 2015's launch months.

    And this game not only was release on Steam, but DRM free on GOG.

    Would BL3 have achieved roughly 45% sales in week one if it were on Steam? Not a chance in hell.
     
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  39. jiminator

    jiminator Capt Obvious

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    nope, most everyone would have picked steam resulting in huge losses. I estimate 1.5 PC million sales, probably 11 million in revenue that would be lost to steam.
    BUT... there would be MORE sales you say.... they will get those very same sales in 6 months and all the steam users will be crowing about how by waiting they got the patched and bugfixed version of the game.
     
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