quakelive is where it's at
Yep! I have been playing that a lot more since I got into a 120 Hz monitor setup. I just wish there were closer servers than Chicago or Toronto, though my ping isn't too bad.
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Eizo Foris FG2421: 120hz VA Panel
- Thread starter NCX
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Yep! I have been playing that a lot more since I got into a 120 Hz monitor setup. I just wish there were closer servers than Chicago or Toronto, though my ping isn't too bad.
What is the EV2436W like as a gaming monitor?
AwesomeOwl
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I received my monitor yesterday, but I'm probably going to return it.
The box says Eizo - Stockholm, Sweden.
Mfd. 2013.09.24
Black looks perfect with no significant clouding, dark grey looks not so great. The right side of the screen is a bit worse than the left. The darker the color gets the more pronounced the effect is. It's actually noticeable on this website on the post backgrounds.
The effects are a bit exaggerated in the pictures (partially because I had messed with the black level setting prior to taking the pictures - it was at 40):
(very dark grey)
(very dark red)
Does anyone know what causes this problem and why pure black is completely unaffected?
On the UFO test, turbo240 dramatically decreases motion blur, but it does increase the amount of ghosting. The actual UFO is incredibly sharp though, even at very high speeds.
The monitor has a bit of smearing going on too. I don't know if it's noticeable in games, but it's definitely there on the UFO tests on most background colors.
The box says Eizo - Stockholm, Sweden.
Mfd. 2013.09.24
Black looks perfect with no significant clouding, dark grey looks not so great. The right side of the screen is a bit worse than the left. The darker the color gets the more pronounced the effect is. It's actually noticeable on this website on the post backgrounds.
The effects are a bit exaggerated in the pictures (partially because I had messed with the black level setting prior to taking the pictures - it was at 40):
(very dark grey)
(very dark red)
Does anyone know what causes this problem and why pure black is completely unaffected?
On the UFO test, turbo240 dramatically decreases motion blur, but it does increase the amount of ghosting. The actual UFO is incredibly sharp though, even at very high speeds.
The monitor has a bit of smearing going on too. I don't know if it's noticeable in games, but it's definitely there on the UFO tests on most background colors.
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spacediver
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nice, I live in Toronto so my ping is about 15 there
My qlive nick is Julios, mainly play FFA and occasional duel.
Well i honestly don't see any lag, but then again i don't play Shooters.
Price wise you really get worth for your money if you can live with IPS Glow in Dark Games (Bottom corners for me in the front). Which is a bit of an issue for me, coming from an EIZO S2231W (S-PVA/CCFL) But the display is really really uniform, the colors are great and the blacks are just fine for IPS.
But as i said, IPS Glow is what bothers me and that's why i tried the FG2421. But the Edge Bleed on mine was so bad it almost looked like IPS Glow. Apart from that the colors were really washed out, like someone crisscrossed their finger over a wet painting. And it had a dead pixel.
I been adviced the CX240 seeing i have a high standard when it comes to uniformity. The only thing that keeps me from buying it is the possible noisy cooling fans and the fact that it might have IPS Glow aswell, tho it seems near A-TW from the front. I kinda need to see it in person to pull me over the line.
Hm, I am not sure as my panels have no issues besides some ghosting on certain UFO test colored backgrounds. I don't have any noticeable glow on the edges etc. This monitor does really well in other ghosting tests that Lightboost monitors struggle at, such as dark items on light backgrounds. I've played a ton of games and it doesn't appear to be an issue.
The motion clarity is just a tad worse than 10% Lightboost, but the god-like blacks, contrast, overall image quality and good viewing angles in portrait surround MORE than make up for any small deficiencies.
nice, I live in Toronto so my ping is about 15 there
My qlive nick is Julios, mainly play FFA and occasional duel.
Mine is around 60 usually for Toronto (I live in Michigan). My nick is phillyboy on there and yeah, been mainly FFA but I definitely enjoy CTF as well.
Yeah, that edge glow is what most of us have been discussing / having issues with. What are your brightness/gamma levels at? Mine got noticeably better after making some adjustments... here are my User1 settings:
Color Temperature: Off
Brightness 14
Contrast 50
Black Level 50 (trying lowering it to 49 - 48)
Gain Red 97
Gain Green 100
Gain Blue 100
ContrastEnhancer Standard
Gamma 2.4
Turbo 240 OFF
Though you might tweak the red/green/blue differently.
AwesomeOwl
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I wish I could say the same thing about mine.. The glow or bleeding or whatever it is is significant enough that I would probably prefer my U2412M for most things except fast paced shooters. At least glow is only a problem with blacks on the Dell..
Do you have perfect uniformity on all your displays with the following picture in a dark room?
http://i.imgur.com/DWFc5dO.png
The stock web setting seems pretty good at exposing the monitor's problems with this specific picture, at least on my sample.
I'm on user1, fairly close to stock except for low brightness. I see no significant change when using your settings though, unfortunately. I think all you can do is really shif the problem around a little.
I know it wasn't directed at me, but I do notice very faint edge glow with that image at full screen. My TV which is sitting next to it doesn't seem to have the same issue.
I also noticed a bit of color shift or glow that is very pronounced at the left and right edges of the monitor. For example when I was installing Windows 8 and the entire screen is blue, you can see the edges are tinted purple. So I guess uniformity is not that good, depending on your panel. I have no dead pixels so I'm leaning towards keeping mine, and it seems like everyone has this edge uniformity problem to some extent.
I just hit an interesting revelation on the contrast ratio front. I decided to say hell with setting the targets and try out the dynamic contrast. I ran the test three times in a row to make sure I was getting accurate readings. My god is it bright though.
And.. here are my settings (Color Mode: 6500k)
Edit: Lowering to 50 brightness with dynamic contrast on gets me a result of 10,580:1
22 brightness with dynamic contrast is 4895:1
And.. here are my settings (Color Mode: 6500k)
Edit: Lowering to 50 brightness with dynamic contrast on gets me a result of 10,580:1
22 brightness with dynamic contrast is 4895:1
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Here are some pics I just took:
Above is the .jpg you provided of dark grey. Panel uniformity is pretty good, with the "worst" edge being the left top. Definitely not what I would call too much of an issue. Disregard the "haze" at the bottom. that is the camera picking up some light from the stainless steel.
_________________________________________________________
Above is solid black.
__________________________________________________________
Solid black, total darkness.
_____________________________________________________________
Steam / corner.
_____________________________________________________________
Panel uniformity, image quality and just about every characteristic of my panels are great across the board. All were built on 10/04 if that makes any difference. Maybe I am just lucky!
The fact pictures always shows the right side being significantly brigther makes me conclude this issue could be significantly reduced by changing how it is built inside.
If the issue was only the both sides being as the left side on your pictures it would be acceptable, but this right side is REALLY too bright
houkouonchi
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I get like 55 to Chicago. I get 7-8 to Los Angeles on a normal day 9-10 on a bad day and 6-7 on a good day.
Quake is pretty nice gaming on my 50 inch seiki with @ 120hz native refresh rate (4k VA panel). I haven't had time to play lately due to being busy with work and other stuff.
I just started up again yesterday because quakelive is doing the stand-alone client (windows-only) so I figured i better get in some hours before its unplayable for me...
The first pic is dark grey based on the .jpg that the one guy uploaded. There is just a slight bit of the right side (top on my setup) lightening. Especially on the left monitor. It's not what I would call a huge issue, unless some monitors are way worse than mine in that test.
Could you try with this pattern:
http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/583351gammashifttestrecadr.png
In the dark + no light from your keyboard, with brightness 50 and gamma 2 and/or 2.2 ?
http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/583351gammashifttestrecadr.png
In the dark + no light from your keyboard, with brightness 50 and gamma 2 and/or 2.2 ?
Ok, but brightness 50 in a dark room, you trying to go blind you know how bright that is on three screens lol. WIll do later tonight, but I think that would be an exagerated mode as I would never use those settings. Not sure how well any monitor would do that bright in a pitch black room with that image..
That's just to be sure your camera can capture it and to be able to make a fair comparison with other users who posted a picture of this pattern and who for most should have done it at 50 brightness. I would not use such a high setting for daily use for sure (I use 17 on my fs2333 even during day).
You can still try at a lower brightness level too as long as you still see the stripes with naked eye and set your camera (iso/exposure time) so it captures it with the same level you see with your eyes.
Also, as you have your panels mounted in portrait mode, I should mention picture must be taken straight forward vertically (for a landscape panel, so no left/right for your setup) because otherwise the gamma shift can be reduced or even not visible as you can see in the pictures from this post:
http://forum.hardware.fr/hfr/Hardwa...21-premier-moniteur-sujet_61598_4.htm#t750038
You can still try at a lower brightness level too as long as you still see the stripes with naked eye and set your camera (iso/exposure time) so it captures it with the same level you see with your eyes.
Also, as you have your panels mounted in portrait mode, I should mention picture must be taken straight forward vertically (for a landscape panel, so no left/right for your setup) because otherwise the gamma shift can be reduced or even not visible as you can see in the pictures from this post:
http://forum.hardware.fr/hfr/Hardwa...21-premier-moniteur-sujet_61598_4.htm#t750038
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If the goal is to compare with other owners then you have to try to make similar pictures, otherwise how could we know if it is possible to have a fg2421 with a lot less gamma shift than many (most ?) have.
I have seen so many times the same thing with this test pattern already, from various owners, that it seems improbable someone was able to get 3 almost unaffected panels. Would really mean a lot of luck considering how many owners we see having much more pronounced gamma shift. But the good side of this would be to know that "it is possible". But for that we have to be sure the pictures were taken in more or less similar conditions or the comparison is biased.
I have seen so many times the same thing with this test pattern already, from various owners, that it seems improbable someone was able to get 3 almost unaffected panels. Would really mean a lot of luck considering how many owners we see having much more pronounced gamma shift. But the good side of this would be to know that "it is possible". But for that we have to be sure the pictures were taken in more or less similar conditions or the comparison is biased.
Ok, but brightness 50 in a dark room, you trying to go blind you know how bright that is on three screens lol. WIll do later tonight, but I think that would be an exagerated mode as I would never use those settings. Not sure how well any monitor would do that bright in a pitch black room with that image..
I don't know if our monitors have differences, but i usually play in a dim or pitch black room, and i use 50 brightness with turbo on (i tried lowering it to 45 and 40, but it was too dim). I didn't even test lower than 30 brightness with turbo on initially because it simply seemed so unreasonably dim that noone would use it.
Flatpanels hd calibrated settings are with 52 brightness and turbo off, for example.
(they recommend "User2 optimized for gaming with the settings above + Turbo 240 activated + 100 % brightness" for turbo).
The picture i posted on page5 is with 50 brightness in a pitch black room. As long as theres anything to contrast against, blacks look completely black at 50b.
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@phillyboy
Yes, the more people post a picture with this pattern the best estimation we can make about the proportion of affected panels (though the conditions to take the picture can make comparisons difficult, hence why it is good to give some details like brightness and gamma for the screen setting, and at least iso and exposure time for the camera).
I can't remember if it was in this thread or another forum I've read someone suggesting that the fg2421 could use rejected panels from the much more expensive version for satellite imaging. I just fear this could be true as it would make sense. Keep the best panels for the very expensive monitor and create a gamer screen to get rid of those panels that didn't pass the quality test. I wouldn't accept to pay for this then, knowing an almost gamma-shift free fg2421 could be possible but we don't have this because it is made with the worst panels Sharp delivers to Eizo.
For a gaming monitor 500€ is not cheap and even if I can understand the best panels are used for the expensive satellite imaging monitor it doesn't mean the gamer version shouldn't have a minimum quality requirement also. At least I know this gamma shift is the main thing preventing me from buying this monitor. I know I couldn't stand having that much light at each side in dark scenes after I have used for 1 year an ips that doesn't have this issue at all (and crt before that).
Yes, the more people post a picture with this pattern the best estimation we can make about the proportion of affected panels (though the conditions to take the picture can make comparisons difficult, hence why it is good to give some details like brightness and gamma for the screen setting, and at least iso and exposure time for the camera).
I can't remember if it was in this thread or another forum I've read someone suggesting that the fg2421 could use rejected panels from the much more expensive version for satellite imaging. I just fear this could be true as it would make sense. Keep the best panels for the very expensive monitor and create a gamer screen to get rid of those panels that didn't pass the quality test. I wouldn't accept to pay for this then, knowing an almost gamma-shift free fg2421 could be possible but we don't have this because it is made with the worst panels Sharp delivers to Eizo.
For a gaming monitor 500€ is not cheap and even if I can understand the best panels are used for the expensive satellite imaging monitor it doesn't mean the gamer version shouldn't have a minimum quality requirement also. At least I know this gamma shift is the main thing preventing me from buying this monitor. I know I couldn't stand having that much light at each side in dark scenes after I have used for 1 year an ips that doesn't have this issue at all (and crt before that).
My IPS has even lighting aswell, there is just some IPS Glow in the lower corners when i sit infront of it. CX240 seems to have coating that is near A-TW quality.
Setting brightness level is something misleading because it takes a long time (several minutes) for the eyes to adjust to the lower brightness.
When I come from let say 20 brightness on my monitor and then set it to 12 because I know that's the good level for me I tell myself it is waaaay too dim at the moment I do the adjustment. It is so dim I even wonder how I could have found this level was suitable for me. But after 5min I don't even think about it, and after 10min I find it is even still too bright.
So you should not hold with the impression you have at the moment you adjust the brightness. Either do the adjustement and try using it for a while, or do it by very little steps every 2min.
Also idk for the fg2421 but with the fs2333 if you cut the pwm (brightness max + reduced gain levels) then despite the screen brightness is lower the OSD is displayed with full brightness, which makes brightness adjustment even more misleading as you compare the result with the OSD displayed at full brightness.
I adjusted it a few steps each day so each settting was in effect 24h. i could live with 45, 40 was too dim, but i turned it back up to 50 since it felt best.
I'm pretty sure there are big differences in different batches of this panel. The really low brightness settings are so dark it looks distorted on mine, and the various reviews have reached the same calibrated luminance with very different brightness values. (52 for flatpanelshd, 26 for tftcentral, 100 for sweclockers, but that 100 just seems really off)
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I personally settled on a brightness of 50 with 240hz on and dynamic contrast on for gaming. I do actually notice a decent difference in contrast between 50 brightness and 20 brightness with dynamic contrast turned on. My primary testing platform was Trine 2 because it has some nice inky blacks and a few contrast test patterns. I am calibrated at 22 brightness for normal desktop usage with 240hz off which puts me at 120 cd/m2.
AwesomeOwl
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I did a quick test comparing the monitor to my u2412m: http://youtu.be/EA4aoJmEXwY
Here's the video I used if anyone wants to try it: http://www.mediafire.com/download/hj5lc724s3pn46k/
This is on user1 with mostly stock settings. Brightness at 15, Black level 50, contrast 50, gamma 2.2, no turbo240.
The bleed is not quite as sharply defined in person, but I don't think the video is particularly unfair. It certainly is very distracting and it gives a large part of the image a yellowish tint when it should be brown, which isn't quite as visible in the video.
Here's the video I used if anyone wants to try it: http://www.mediafire.com/download/hj5lc724s3pn46k/
This is on user1 with mostly stock settings. Brightness at 15, Black level 50, contrast 50, gamma 2.2, no turbo240.
The bleed is not quite as sharply defined in person, but I don't think the video is particularly unfair. It certainly is very distracting and it gives a large part of the image a yellowish tint when it should be brown, which isn't quite as visible in the video.
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Gamma shift is called gamma shift because viewing from angle affects gamma level making it lower at sides and lower gamma will make dark gray brighter while black will remain black. Mind that lack level is affected on some VA displays only because they don't display true black panel can do.
So its not really any 'bleed' but normal ordinary gamma shift.
Vega made photos from much larger distance than most photos showing single displays so it is no brainer that gamma shift was less visible.
So its not really any 'bleed' but normal ordinary gamma shift.
Vega made photos from much larger distance than most photos showing single displays so it is no brainer that gamma shift was less visible.
AwesomeOwl
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It's going back alright
I'm sorry, but you are wrong. It's still there even when viewing the monitor from afar.
if black and white is unaffected and mostly dark grays are then how could it not be gamma shift?
proper gamma will move with your head so look at side with perfect 0 degree angle and see if bleed is still there
I had 3 VA so I know exactly what they are capable of and would expect nothing better than what your photos show
proper gamma will move with your head so look at side with perfect 0 degree angle and see if bleed is still there
I had 3 VA so I know exactly what they are capable of and would expect nothing better than what your photos show
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AwesomeOwl
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I just told you that the issue is still there when viewed from afar. I walked 5 meters away from the screen to make sure. Do you want to know what I found out? The issue was still there.
What more do you want?
What more do you want?
