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Dragon Age II

WabeWalker said:
People who pirate a game invest nothing in it, and as a result don't value it the way other people do.
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Thus their opinion of the game isn't tainted by buyer's remorse. They don't have to convince themselves that they like a game more than they really do to justify the purchase in their minds, so the game must stand upon its own merit and nothing else to garner the praise of a pirate.

Pirates are not influenced by payola or buyer's remorse, and they feel no sense of entitlement because they have traded nothing for the game. Their opinion of the game is derived from the game, as it should be.
 
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fattypants said:
Thus their opinion of the game isn't tainted by buyer's remorse. They don't have to convince themselves that they like a game more than they really do to justify the purchase in their minds, so the game has to stand upon its own merit and nothing else to garner their praise.
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Correct. I still don't think that people should pirate games.
 
fattypants said:
Thus their opinion of the game isn't tainted by buyer's remorse. They don't have to convince themselves that they like a game more than they really do to justify the purchase in their minds, so the game has to stand upon its own merit and nothing else to garner their praise.

Armchair psychology swings both ways.
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I'm inclined to agree with this...someone who pirates, borrows or rents the game is less likely to have invested interst in promoting or condeming it. People who buy the game outright may have "buyer's remorse" or the urge to deny it, people who receive it as a gift are motivated to like it to avoid offending whoever gave them the game, and people who review games at a professional level have the "Gertsmann Incident" in mind when penning their final rating.

If you want to dismiss a pirate's opinion on a game it should be solely on "moral" grounds, not because their opinion is inheritly less valid due to the absence of money changing hands. How a person obtains a game doesn't change the game itself; Dragon Age 2 doesn't magically ditch the simplified combat and repetitive enivironments because a pirate pointed them out.
 
Let's not forget that people justify their investments in the latest and greatest hardware by buying the latest and greatest games that supposedly crank their system to over 9,000. And in order to justify the hardware investment, they need to buy and play "great games." It's a cycle that repeats itself. In order to validate them investing hundreds or thousands of dollars in hardware upgrades, they have to convince themselves they are playing games that made the investment in the hardware worthwhile.

Towards that end they will stand up and smite those who bash the games they are playing, whether the criticism is valid or not, because they have a sense that criticism hits a little too close to home.
 
or like me, you could feel sad with your brand spanking new system. "oh boy, I can finally run a DX11 game!!!!!" You then buy a very anticipated game, and then feel ripped off because the game was not worth the $60.

Why else would you spend thousands of dollars on the latest hardware? for folding? I don't think so. It's games that drive the need for expensive hardware. And when the game is a disappointment, well you know.....
 
I agree with that in theory and with other games, but I don't think it really fits with Dragon Age 2. The first game was not a graphics masterpiece, nor was DA2 ever billed as a hardware crusher. I would question the logic of those who expected DA2 to justify expensive, high-end hardware upgrades.
 
Wow, a few pages back it appeared we were going to have some decent discussion about DA2 - now this nonsense.

This thread has been completely hijacked.
 
Dallows said:
So you took the time to pirate and play a game, that you knew ahead of time was going to be awful... just so you could bitch about it?
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The answer to that question is a resounding YES. And it's the same people in every thread.
 
WabeWalker said:
Wow, a few pages back it appeared we were going to have some decent discussion about DA2 - now this nonsense.

This thread has been completely hijacked.
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You hijacked the DA2 demo thread and went to war with everyone who didn't like it.

You also started the current line of discussion by saying anybody who hasn't personally paid for the game has no right to hold an opinion. Reap what you sow, etc.
 
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What's there to discuss? How great the game is? About how many areas appear to be exactly the same, over and over, and over again?
 
Motley said:
What's there to discuss? How great the game is? About how many areas appear to be exactly the same, over and over, and over again?
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You're not towing the party line sir, this game is an undisputed masterpiece, it stands heads and shoulders above every game of the last decade.

Get it right!
 
It's been said before in this thread but it needs to be said again. The demo was a poor representation of the game for a number of reasons.

1. The combat in the first half of the demo was supposed to be over the top and crazy. Varric the dwarf was embellishing the story of the Champion of Kirkwall. As a result everything was exaggerated, including the combat and the girl's endowments.

2. The demo was only locked at Normal difficulty. Normal difficulty is really only for console players or people new to rpg's. Everyone else needs to play at either Hard or Nightmare. I have never seen anyone whose played the game on Hard or Nightmare call the combat kiddy or watered down console version of Origins.

3. Demo had no DX11 or High res textures. The game looks so much better than Origins it's not even funny.
 
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So, playing on Hard, I've been having a tough time deciding how to level up.

I was kind of surprised to see all these new skill trees popping up. I had assumed that what you see at the start would be what you'd have for the duration of the game, but that's not the case - as you level up, entirely new trees are made available to you.

I'm worried about spreading myself too thin by going down the wrong branches of the wrong trees. I'm also wondering how to invest my attribute points - should I stick to my main attribute, or should I spread my points out a little.

The thing is, sometimes when gamers encounter a fight that's 'impossible' for them to win, it's often the case that they simply haven't leveled up properly. My first month with Baldur's Gate was a real frustration, for that very reason. I kept on saying, this game is impossible, but it was simply that I didn't level correctly.

Are any of you playing on Hard, and do you feel that your party is gimped - have you learned anything that you would say is vital?

Anyhow, sure is nice to play an RPG that makes me work at it like this. God, this game makes Origins look like a child's play toy.
 
Here are my quick thoughts on attribute points so far.

2-hand warrior: 2 Str & 1 Con per level.
Sword/Shield warrior: 2 Con & 1 Str per level.
Mage: 2 Magic & 1 Will or Con. There's a Willpower threshold for some items.
Rogue: Dex, Cunning, & Con. You need cunning to open up chests, every 10 points of cunning is a new tier of lockpick, i.e. 10/20/30/40.

Toss in some Willpower if you feel your mana or stamina is too low.

If your a rogue I wouldn't spread your points between ranged and melee. I'd focus on either an archer or a melee rogue.
 
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Why the hell did they force me to take Veric into the Deep Roads with me?

Your damn crossbow is useless. Please, never come back again :)
 
WabeWalker said:
So, playing on Hard, I've been having a tough time deciding how to level up.

I was kind of surprised to see all these new skill trees popping up. I had assumed that what you see at the start would be what you'd have for the duration of the game, but that's not the case - as you level up, entirely new trees are made available to you.

I'm worried about spreading myself too thin by going down the wrong branches of the wrong trees. I'm also wondering how to invest my attribute points - should I stick to my main attribute, or should I spread my points out a little.

The thing is, sometimes when gamers encounter a fight that's 'impossible' for them to win, it's often the case that they simply haven't leveled up properly. My first month with Baldur's Gate was a real frustration, for that very reason. I kept on saying, this game is impossible, but it was simply that I didn't level correctly.

Are any of you playing on Hard, and do you feel that your party is gimped - have you learned anything that you would say is vital?

Anyhow, sure is nice to play an RPG that makes me work at it like this. God, this game makes Origins look like a child's play toy.
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This is my full breakdown of the combat. I will try to keep any major spoilers out, but little things will be inevitable.

Here is what I discovered about DA2: 2h warriors have taken the mage's place as the overpowered class. They are significantly tougher than the other classes and have so much AoE burst damage that it's absolutely absurd. I played through on Nightmare with a 2h warrior Hawke and waffled around with group compositions for a while before settling on Hawke, Fenris (2h warrior), Anders (support mage) and Merrill (damage/control mage).

As far as spec for Hawke, besides the 2h tree, there are two other trees that really stand out, Reaver and Vanguard. Reaver has a passive skill (Blood Frenzy) that gives you 2% increased damage per 1% missing health. Vanguard gives a variety of nice passives and toggles, but most importantly gives you Cleave, which (when upgraded) is a 100% boost to damage for 15 seconds on a 20 second cooldown. Using both warriors as pseudo-tanks and AoE burst machines with Scythe and Whirlwind, you can cut through every non-boss enemy in like two attacks.

I found virtually no uses for the Berserker tree. It was WAY stamina intensive and simply didn't provide any noticeable boosts to my damage. Reaver, on the other hand, offers this interesting paradigm where you allow (even encourage) your character to take damage because you grow so strong so fast. I'd often leave Hawke at 25-50% health so that I could pop Cleave and Sacrificial Frenzy, which doubles the effect of Blood Frenzy and then blow all my attacks. My highest Mighty Blow was over 8000 damage and it would bring Scythe and Whirlwind into the 3k-5k range quite consistently.

The other thing I would suggest is to keep an eye on cross-class combos. The other strength of my class setup was that 2h warriors stagger everything in sight. Hawke with Reaver can stagger even the hardest bosses with Voracious Devour. In particular, this synergizes well with Crushing Prison for Arcane mages and Chain Lightning from the Primal tree. Crushing Prison paralyzes and deals 2x damage to staggered targets and Chain Lightning does a whopping 6x damage to staggered targets. Chain lightning consistently dealt 2500 damage to up to 4 targets in the late game (and with no friendly fire).

At some point, I started speccing my mages out of the usual mix of willpower and magic and into constitution. In the late game, I rarely had mana issues (Merrill used her blood magic form almost all the time) and Anders used his abilities sparingly. With improved blood magic, I actually ran about 5 toggles on Merrill at the same time because she never even needed mana, so I dumped almost nothing into willpower. This meant that I had a very beefy party all around. The end result was that my party was quite tanky and incredibly bursty without even needing a dedicated tank.

I found that a dedicated tank often had trouble holding aggro because of the long cooldown on taunt and the general structure of the fights. Aveline's damage was pitiful, so she often even lost control of bosses, and the wave-based and enemy spam structure of combat meant that she couldn't control the entire battlefield very easily.

This caused a similar problem for rogues. Although I could recommend them for single targets, rogues just don't function well in the multitarget paradigm so common in DA2. I found their battlefield control to be lackluster compared to a good mage and they have virtually no viable AoE. Against single targets, however, they can be devastating. Isabela with upgraded explosive strike on a staggered targets with 10 combo points was probably consistently my biggest hitting attack, easily breaking 5000 damage most of the time. However, I just didn't like to use them unless I was forced to by the current quest (fuck you Varric).

As far as cross-class combos built on other effects, I just didn't find them as useful as staggers. Disorientation was only caused by a very select few abilities and only taken advantage of by an even smaller and less effective subset of abilities. Brittle was slightly more useful as bow users could hit them for ridiculous amounts with upgraded Archer's Lance and it also provided 2x and 3x bonuses to Scythe and Mighty Blow for warriors, but again, Brittle is only caused by like three abilities in the mage trees.
 
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Krameriffic, you're really saying that if I'm going to succeed in DA2, on Hard, then I'm going to have to abandon my play style from Origins, which was to build up my tank by maxing out the shield talents, and then taunting enemies away from my two spell casters who were basically healing my tank constantly. (I used Sten as my main DPSer).

So, two handed warriors, eh? And cross class combos initiated by the warriors (by stunning) and then following up with a Chain Lightning (from the Mage), or an Explosive Strike (from the rogue). There's some good solid stuff there, man. I'm going to be checking into this 'real soon'.

But there's one thing I'm confused about - it's this Explosive Strike thing. How exactly does it work? I've spent about three hours on DA 2 so far, and this one eluded me.

You mention 'combo points'. Do you get these from basic melee attacks? How do you keep track of how many you have? Are you supposed to let your warrior just swing away for a time, and then use the Explosive Strike ability? I don't get it.

krameriffic said:
Isabela with upgraded explosive strike on a staggered targets with 10 combo points was probably consistently my biggest hitting attack, easily breaking 5000 damage most of the time. However, I just didn't like to use them unless I was forced to by the current quest (fuck you Varric).
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Anyhow, great post, man.
 
Basically, the Explosive Strike works in tandem with the Unforgiving Chain talent right before it. When you attack a target with normal attacks on a rogue, you'll notice around the little attack icon next to their health bar a little dotted circle filling up--that represents the number of hits in the current combo. Explosive Strike deals 50% additional damage for each point on the target and consumes them, which makes it very bursty. Combined with a stagger and the upgraded version, it does 400% additional damage on top of that, plus it crits every time.

Also of note about the combo points, they transfer between enemies and you can perform other actions without losing them. I think they are based on a timer, and they disappear if you don't attack for 5 seconds or so. With Haste from a mage, they build up insanely fast given how fast DW rogues attack.

As far as tanking goes, I just found it hard to keep attention on my tank because fights typically have a whole bunch of enemies surrounding your party coming in waves. I suppose it could be easier if you focused on battlefield control a little more than me, but I just found Aveline clunky and ineffective. As far as aggro management, the talents in the rogue scoundrel tree were actually more effective than taunt I found. Armistice and Goad are the ones to try.

This guy's video shows basically how I like to play my warrior. It's not exactly the same, but it clearly shows that a 2h warrior can tank very effectively. He plays Nightmare with no pausing, and has a few other videos of higher end bosses with the same party setup you see there. This one is not a big spoiler fight, though his others are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mKaIJdOLDk&tracker=False&hd=1

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/305/index/6396096
 
WabeWalker said:
Krameriffic, you're really saying that if I'm going to succeed in DA2, on Hard, then I'm going to have to abandon my play style from Origins, which was to build up my tank by maxing out the shield talents, and then taunting enemies away from my two spell casters who were basically healing my tank constantly. (I used Sten as my main DPSer).
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I'm playing Nightmare using the same build I had in Origins, 1 sword/shield tank, 1 rogue, and 2 mages.

You can definitely complete hard using your usual play style. Aveline can become a real monster of a tank with the right talents.
 
What are good builds/uses for Aveline and Fenris? I'm having a hard time making much out of them. Thanks.
 
Just got to the beginnings of the Deep Roads. As I have said, I like the game and I don't mind a lot of the changes they have made. Probably the biggest thing that annoys me though is the repeated and cookie cutter dungeons. If there is any area where I notice that Bioware rushed things it is there. Especially compared to Origins.
 
SuX0rz said:
Just got to the beginnings of the Deep Roads. As I have said, I like the game and I don't mind a lot of the changes they have made. Probably the biggest thing that annoys me though is the repeated and cookie cutter dungeons. If there is any area where I notice that Bioware rushed things it is there. Especially compared to Origins.
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I actually really enjoyed the combat and got really bored with the sidequests and the environment. The Deep Roads are one of the rare examples of a place that is truly interesting to be in the whole game (sadly). They crank up the difficulty a fair bit down there and the overarching story, which was largely absent to that point, begins to take some shape.
 
How long is one complete playthrough? The further I get into the game, and the more disparaging comments I read, the more I start to dislike the game. This could have really been something. I don't think modding can fix this, seeing as even DA:O mods didn't get too far in terms of quality. I wish I had finished Origins at this point, but I can't see myself going back.
 
Riddleofsteel said:
How long is one complete playthrough? The further I get into the game, and the more disparaging comments I read, the more I start to dislike the game. This could have really been something. I don't think modding can fix this, seeing as even DA:O mods didn't get too far in terms of quality. I wish I had finished Origins at this point, but I can't see myself going back.
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I think if you ignore the sidequests you could finish it in easily less than 10 hours. My nightmare playthrough finished at 36 hours with virtually all of the sidequests done. I was level 24.
 
Aveline:

Primary attributes: Strength, Constitution.

One possible leveling scenario - for every four levels, pump five points into Strength, four into Constitution, and three into Cunning (to dodge attacks).

Essential Abilities:

1) Max out the Weapon and Shield Tree - just take everything.
2) Warmonger Tree: Taunt, Bellow, Bravery, Bravado, Bravura.
3) Battlemaster Tree: Bolster, Second Wind.
4) Guardian Tree: Indomitable.
5) Defender Tree: Elemental Aegis, Elemental Shroud

Things to do:

Always sustain Shield Defense (15%) and Bravery (30%) and upgrade as you advance. Switch on Elemental Aegis when being attacked by elemental energy, then switch off to enable more ability usage.

Advance Aveline to draw enemies and Taunt early.

Reserve Shield Bash and Scatter for a co-ordinated cross-class combo when a Chain Lighting or Fist of The Maker is ready and waiting.

Assault and Scatter enemies after a rogue has Disoriented them.

Desirable equipment properties worth pursuing:

1) damage resistance
2) threat generation
3) fortitude increase
4) health increase
5) stamina increase
6) immunity to Stun and Knockback

Armor Upgrades:

Act 1 - Underpadding (Armor stand in Lowtown)
Act 2 - Impact plating (Armor stand in Lowtown)
Act 2 - Flex Chain (Raiders on the Cliffs)
Act 3 - Deflecting Joints (Favor and Fault)

From the official gameguide, which just arrived on my doorstep this morning. Wow, there's a ton of stuff in here. This game sure doesn't look dumbed down to me.
 
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Also, I have one slightly embarrassing question to ask: This cross-class combo thing, which seems like it's going to be essential to get through the tougher battles, especially on the higher difficulty settings... it wasn't in Origins, right?

Tell me that I didn't advance all the way through Origins without knowing about cross-class combos. This has got to be something new?
 
WabeWalker said:
Also, I have one slightly embarrassing question to ask: This cross-class combo thing, which seems like it's going to be essential to get through the tougher battles, especially on the higher difficulty settings... it wasn't in Origins, right?

Tell me that I didn't advance all the way through Origins without knowing about cross-class combos. This has got to be something new?
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You could do combo spells with mages. I remember you could cast grease or oil, whatever it was and set it on fire. You could also combine stuff like the lightning and frost aoe.

You could also shatter an opponent that was frozen by mages cone of cold.
 
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Spoiler alert...


Just finished the second "act" in Kirkwall and I was hoping I would actually get to leave after that - nope. Sigh

I cant believe how tough that fight with the Arshiok was as a rogue on normal difficulty. It took like 15 minutes of me just using the spirals in the middle and playing ring around the rosey waiting for Assassinate cooldown and stamina potion cooldowns. I had to use 7 stamina potions - lol.
 
Just got through the first portion of the game and arrived at Kirkwall. Playing on nightmare and I enjoying it quite a bit. I think the combat looks a lot better even if it is unrealistic. I am a big baldurs gate1/2 fan and I find that the battles require a lot of tactical thought at harder difficulties. Each action and use of ability has to be thought out and used on the proper enemy or you're in trouble. Graphics look good, high res textures look good and my initial distaste for the chat wheel has been for nothing, I actually like the wheel at this point. Even the interface looks better.

I dont really mind the permanent armor either, as long as you have several choices for other items, I dont find it to be that big of a deal. I initially thought someone telling your story was stupid but I actually quite enjoy it.

Overall, most of my worries were for nothing, I would recommend the game.
 
I'm absolutely in love with this game. Much, much better plot then original, and better NPCs. Varric is even funier then Jan Jansen ;P

Each NPC has meaningful story, not like in 1st game, where it was simple "give 100 dog treats to raise friendship to 100"... and the combination of friendship/rivalry makes it nice addon. ALso finally, first game, after Baldur's Gate where companions do disagree on player's choices. Try to help the templars with Anders, or help mages while having Fenris in party :)

Of course main plot is also better then Origins - plot twists,quests are fun, give insight to your character, and make every decision count. ANd yes, the new dialogue options - smirk/loyal/evil also great choice, with me choosing mostly the "smirk" parts - speaking not of yourparty members help you in certain cituation, like Varrick lying me out from troubles with templars ;)

The city finally lives... and when you achieve fame, you are recognised on the street :)

Biggest gripe? Inventory - too many items, not all the junk, but too many typesof armors, rings, weapons... whoo need'em :p

IMO, until ME3 shows this year, it's my game of the year.
 
Dexterity 20 + Cunning 20 = Ser Issac Armor for my rogue!

Yes! This is one of the coolest DLC bonuses I've ever seen. The Ser Issac armor looks even better in-game than it did in the promo.

I'm now a Level 6 rogue, but have yet to experience my first cross-class combo. The cross-class combo system is going to be vital in this game. If I can setup a tactic and get that working in real time, without pausing, I'll clean up.

-----------------------------------------------------

But I still can't figure out this Explosive Strike thing. With Unforgiving Chain I'm supposed to perform ten consecutive normal melee attacks, and then use the Explosive Strike for maximum damage.

I see nothing on the screen that keeps track of the number of melee attacks I've strung together. I've looked everywhere, but I see nothing?
 
MorgothPl said:
I'm absolutely in love with this game. Much, much better plot then original, and better NPCs. Varric is even funier then Jan Jansen ;P

Each NPC has meaningful story, not like in 1st game, where it was simple "give 100 dog treats to raise friendship to 100"... and the combination of friendship/rivalry makes it nice addon. ALso finally, first game, after Baldur's Gate where companions do disagree on player's choices. Try to help the templars with Anders, or help mages while having Fenris in party :)

Of course main plot is also better then Origins - plot twists,quests are fun, give insight to your character, and make every decision count. ANd yes, the new dialogue options - smirk/loyal/evil also great choice, with me choosing mostly the "smirk" parts - speaking not of yourparty members help you in certain cituation, like Varrick lying me out from troubles with templars ;)

The city finally lives... and when you achieve fame, you are recognised on the street :)

Biggest gripe? Inventory - too many items, not all the junk, but too many typesof armors, rings, weapons... whoo need'em :p

IMO, until ME3 shows this year, it's my game of the year.
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Never cared much for the main plot in Origins.

Gather an army. Fight the Darkspawn. It was too simplistic.
 
Dragon Age 2 doesn't use SecuROM, according to Bioware technical producer Derek "CrushBug" French:

Sorry, but there is some confusion on this. We use Sony Release Control which shares some functionality with other Sony products (SecuROM), but we do not use SecuROM for the DRM.

Once the Sony Release Control check is passed, Release Control self-destructs, removing the Release Control wrapper and it is never used again. Game updates will not use Release Control because obviously the release date is passed.

Additionally, installing the game and then any future game patch will also remove the Sony Release Control check and it will never run on your computer.
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Good news for those who were worried.
 
Dallows said:
Yup. And no epic battles.
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Not true.

There was one epic battle. It occurred when you rescued Annora - remember, when you were leaving the estate, and that group, led by the female, was waiting at the door?

That was pretty much about it though. Even on the highest difficulty setting the battles were too simple. In this title, as far as combat is concerned, there are so many hell yeah moments that it doesn't even feel like it was made by the same team, which is obviously a good thing.

That developer guy who left - good, I'm glad he left. Maybe HE was the reason Origins was so full of suck. I always blamed it on Mike Laidlaw.
 
WabeWalker said:
But I still can't figure out this Explosive Strike thing. With Unforgiving Chain I'm supposed to perform ten consecutive normal melee attacks, and then use the Explosive Strike for maximum damage.

I see nothing on the screen that keeps track of the number of melee attacks I've strung together. I've looked everywhere, but I see nothing?
Click to expand...

When you select your target you'll notice a crossed swords icon by his head. As you autoattack you'll see a circle forming around the icon, once it completes the circle your at max charges. Any ability you use resets the charges.

I'm loving follow-through on my rogue. Gives you 1% stamina per attack, means you'll never run out of stamina in a fight. Also, back-to-back isn't half bad either.

Biggest hitters so far on my rogue are twin fangs and upgraded explosive strike. However, 20 second twin fangs is just pure win.
 
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Oh, dear god, I was looking at the interface, not on the character I was attacking. Damn, I feel like a fool now. I thought the number of melee attacks would appear beside my character portrait.

Also, this is turning out to be 'one of those Saturdays'. I'm really locked into this game. I was the biggest critic of the new animation system pre-release, and now I have to eat crow. The new system makes the game feel fresh.

Love these tactical battles.
 
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