Dragon Age 3: Inquisition Announced

ballistic90 said:
DA2 really reduced the groups into some base components, which removed any subtlety.

The big problem you have, is that you're seeing groups of people as a monolith, instead of groups of individuals. I don't blame you, as DA2 pretty much reduced everything to mobs of mostly faceless NPCs or targets to attack. In Dragon Age Origins, groups often have drastically differing opinions among them, and plenty of individuals. Did you know that there are 5 or so schools of magic in Dragon Age Origins? I don't mean literal schools, as in types of spells, but schools as in differing political opinions. That made a huge impact to me, since it indicates some depth to the political climate.

As for the werewolves/elves thing, only the leader of that band of elves was responsible for making those people into werewolves. He did that because they were humans, some of which killed/possibly raped his children (don't remember if that was actually implied). He turned them into werewolves, because to him, they were already monsters. The other elves didn't know any of this, and fought against them because the werewolves blamed them all for their predicament, and also because they were made feral by the transformation. By the time you step in, several generations of elves and werewolves have passed, the leader being kept in an "immortal" state by the werewolf curse. It was a story about forgiveness and letting go, in a kind of hamfisted way, really. By the elf leader ( I wish I could remember his name) finally letting go of his anger and rage, he ends the curse and dies with the curse.

Again, this is like real life. A much, MUCH better description is of human motivation rather than "good" and "evil", is about choosing between what is right, and what is easy. People don't always have easy answers to difficult problems, so you get personally motivated answers.
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I specifically said, when looking at them as groups. I'm not saying all of the people in the groups were evil/good.

For the different political sects of magic, I probably knew that... however, it's been a pretty long time since I've played it. So I don't really remember that much of it. And that part was probably one that I don't remember much about, but now that you mention it, I do vaguely remember that or something like that.

Seems to me, that over the generations with the werewolves and the elves, you'd think there would be people questioning what's going on, on both sides. Didn't seem to have that. At least none that I can recall.
 
Serpent said:
I specifically said, when looking at them as groups. I'm not saying all of the people in the groups were evil/good.

For the different political sects of magic, I probably knew that... however, it's been a pretty long time since I've played it. So I don't really remember that much of it. And that part was probably one that I don't remember much about, but now that you mention it, I do vaguely remember that or something like that.

Seems to me, that over the generations with the werewolves and the elves, you'd think there would be people questioning what's going on, on both sides. Didn't seem to have that. At least none that I can recall.
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The groups in DA:O felt a lot less like single units and more like groups of people with similar views.

The magic groups weren't a big part of the plot, but if you play as a mage you can find out about them while wandering the Mage's Tower.

As for the generations of the werewolves, their curse didn't just make them into the appearance of a werewolf, it also gave them a kind of bloodlust and greatly influenced their ability to think rationally. It was difficult for them just to talk instead of immediately lashing out at anything that came their way. That was intentional, as the elf leader wanted to ensure they would behave like the monsters he saw them as. The other elves believed he had discovered a long lost secret of their race that granted him immortality, and he encouraged them to see it that way.
 
a 30 minute Dragon Age Inquisition gameplay video has leaked online...the pre-alpha gameplay shows off new environments, the conversation system and combat in BioWare's fantasy role-playing game...also included: the character inventory screen, keeps and the tactical view from Dragon Age: Origins re-introduced for Inquisition (18 minute mark)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8xJMWRI-cA#t=701
 
Hard to tell with that poor quality youtube video. I'll give it a shot, I remember enjoying DA:O just not sure If I completed it or not
 
Let's hope DA3 isn't anoffline MMORPG like DAO. Dozens of fetch & hunt quests and MMO-style combat system... eww.
 
seanclayton said:
Let's hope DA3 isn't anoffline MMORPG like DAO. Dozens of fetch & hunt quests and MMO-style combat system... eww.
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DA:O's appeal was less about the combat and more about the plot and characters. My wife was the biggest DA:O fan, and she admitted that the combat could easily use a lot of tweaking.
 
The combat did need a little work. Mostly animations and encounter design. It still had far better encounters than 2, but these devs need to play stuff like KotC to see how challenging and fun encounters work.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
The combat did need a little work. Mostly animations and encounter design. It still had far better encounters than 2, but these devs need to play stuff like KotC to see how challenging and fun encounters work.
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I found that playing as a mage and using the spell combos made up for the monotony. Grease fire always made me laugh.
 
I didn't dislike the combat, it just should have been a little better planned, since you're going to spend the majority of the time in the game in a combat situation.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
I didn't dislike the combat, it just should have been a little better planned, since you're going to spend the majority of the time in the game in a combat situation.
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Pretty much. I think the best description of the combat is "It's something you do while you wait for the dialogue to start up again."
 
Combat felt kind of like, "hey, we can make some improvements to NWN" rather than going a completely different direction.
 
polonyc2 said:
a 30 minute Dragon Age Inquisition gameplay video has leaked online...the pre-alpha gameplay shows off new environments, the conversation system and combat in BioWare's fantasy role-playing game...also included: the character inventory screen, keeps and the tactical view from Dragon Age: Origins re-introduced for Inquisition (18 minute mark)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8xJMWRI-cA#t=701
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I may be a little slow, but I didn't see a group/party in that video, is the party system gone?
 
Parmenides said:
wasn't 3.5 the one everyone complained about too?
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No. 3.5 was actually pretty good. It only broke for really high level balance. 4.0 is the most controversial, and pushed a lot of loyal players to the Pathfinder ruleset. Pathfinder being better than both 3.5 and 4.
 
seanclayton said:
Let's hope DA3 isn't anoffline MMORPG like DAO. Dozens of fetch & hunt quests and MMO-style combat system... eww.
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Aren't "fetch" and "hunt" quests the only kind in ANY RPG ever? I mean that is what any quest in any game boils down to, either find the item or kill this bad guy. From Fallout to Half Life.
 
Skripka said:
Aren't "fetch" and "hunt" quests the only kind in ANY RPG ever? I mean that is what any quest in any game boils down to, either find the item or kill this bad guy. From Fallout to Half Life.
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Not always. Try Planescape: Torment :eek: Gothic games are pretty good about avoiding this, too. Geneforge series. Arcanum. To some extent Divinity 2. Fallout doesn't rely too much on those quest types. Basically most games that heavily use non-combat skills have multiple ways to solve quests.

FedEx type quests are typically so overused, people just don't want them any more, even when they are fairly well done. For me, as long as it is done well, I'm OK. I don't want to gather 22 goat whiskers because of contrived reasons, but if you need to gather and combine vines to repair a bridge to re-open trade routes... it can be fine.
 
I see there was also quite a lot of discussion about combat in Dragon Age. I found DA:O combat to be excellent. There was a lot of strategy involved, i.e. placement of characters was crucial. For instance having an archer / mage providing ranged support, manouevering your rogue behind enemies for backstabs and having your tank lure enemies away from everyone else.

In Dragon Age 2, it basically became a matter of waiting for your special power to recharge and just using that. Combat felt extremely dumbed down and the entire tactical element of it felt thrown out of the window.

That being said, once you perfected your strategy in DA:O, it became a matter of using this strategy, except for a few encounters where you really needed to change tactics. However, I always found the gameplay, and especially the combat, extremely enjoyable. I really hope DA3's combat is more like DA:O, rather than the mindless combat of DA2.
 
I'm more tired of the tank, dps, support paradigm. Is the because of the American football culture? Stick your DPS-QB/RB combo behind the tank-linemen and hope the enemy doesn't break past your line and squish your vulnerable damage dealers. "Oh no, the mage almost got sacked! Pull her back and drink some pots so that she can return to the battle!"

Sure that kind of thinking works better in larger scale battles with hundreds of archers behind a line of a hundred footman with calvary doing some flanking. But having tank man with several enemies in kite formation ignoring the easy kills?
 
Parmenides said:
I'm more tired of the tank, dps, support paradigm. Is the because of the American football culture? Stick your DPS-QB/RB combo behind the tank-linemen and hope the enemy doesn't break past your line and squish your vulnerable damage dealers. "Oh no, the mage almost got sacked! Pull her back and drink some pots so that she can return to the battle!"

Sure that kind of thinking works better in larger scale battles with hundreds of archers behind a line of a hundred footman with calvary doing some flanking. But having tank man with several enemies in kite formation ignoring the easy kills?
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Agreed, however, that is the way the different classes influence play. Of course I could rush my mage head-first into the fray, but he probably won't survive long doing that. Larger battles could be really great, especially if you have lines that protect your archers / mages and enemies actually trying to get to them. Don't think we'll see it here though.

Compared to DA2 though, DA:O's combat is far superior. At least you needed to think a little and approach battles more tactically.
 
grausch said:
Agreed, however, that is the way the different classes influence play. Of course I could rush my mage head-first into the fray, but he probably won't survive long doing that. Larger battles could be really great, especially if you have lines that protect your archers / mages and enemies actually trying to get to them. Don't think we'll see it here though.

Compared to DA2 though, DA:O's combat is far superior. At least you needed to think a little and approach battles more tactically.
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Yeah, the problem is just when the game forces you to think in terms of tank, DPS, support. In the lesser difficulties of DA:O where enemy hit points weren't bloated, I was able to try to ignore that paradigm to some degree. I also didn't drink potions. Basically it allowed a sort of situation where I made the game easier and harder at the same time in order to play against the mold.
 
Parmenides said:
Yeah, the problem is just when the game forces you to think in terms of tank, DPS, support. In the lesser difficulties of DA:O where enemy hit points weren't bloated, I was able to try to ignore that paradigm to some degree. I also didn't drink potions. Basically it allowed a sort of situation where I made the game easier and harder at the same time in order to play against the mold.
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This is really why I wish computer games would embrace some of the newer tabletop rulesets. Hell, even some of the most popular old ones didn't have such limitations. While I don't mind tank/dps/support, I think character building can be a lot more interesting than that. GURPS, Shadowrun, Pathfinder, even many of the White Wolf rulesets aren't constrained by the "holy trinity".

Plus, please include non-combat skills. Things like being able to use speechcraft to talk your way out of situations, streetwise to get information from seedy sources etc. really make role playing games... role playing games.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
This is really why I wish computer games would embrace some of the newer tabletop rulesets. Hell, even some of the most popular old ones didn't have such limitations. While I don't mind tank/dps/support, I think character building can be a lot more interesting than that. GURPS, Shadowrun, Pathfinder, even many of the White Wolf rulesets aren't constrained by the "holy trinity".

Plus, please include non-combat skills. Things like being able to use speechcraft to talk your way out of situations, streetwise to get information from seedy sources etc. really make role playing games... role playing games.
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There were specializations in Dragon Age Origins that allowed you to specialize your characters into hybrid classes, or other different things. There were non combat skills too, like making potions, trap finding, persuasion and etc.

You're mostly talking about RPGs in general, not DA:O in your rant, right?
 
ballistic90 said:
There were specializations in Dragon Age Origins that allowed you to specialize your characters into hybrid classes, or other different things. There were non combat skills too, like making potions, trap finding, persuasion and etc.

You're mostly talking about RPGs in general, not DA:O in your rant, right?
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Not really a rant :p, but I was talking about RPGs in general AND the DA series. While DA:O had a few non-combat specializations, it should have been expanded upon, especially with how long the game had been in development. I enjoyed the game and played it through about 7 times, but it didn't fully explore RPG mechanics.

I really want to see a game that uses Pathfinder or Pathfinder OGL instead of watered down standard D20. You don't have to implement all of the rules (that would be expensive and very hard to get working properly), but even basic Pathfinder rules are meatier than what we have in DA:O, and especially DA2. The OGL would cost no money to license, it's open. You could easily make it fit in a Dragon Age game, as it is essentially just a very complex D20 system. Most of us that play even call it D&D 3.75. You could even put the feats into a DA style skill tree without much trouble, the pre-requisites are already determined. I mean, ToEE proves that a good ruleset can be implemented well in a computer game. With a budget like DA has, any of the shortcomings there were in ToEE could become a complete non-issue.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
This is really why I wish computer games would embrace some of the newer tabletop rulesets. Hell, even some of the most popular old ones didn't have such limitations. While I don't mind tank/dps/support, I think character building can be a lot more interesting than that. GURPS, Shadowrun, Pathfinder, even many of the White Wolf rulesets aren't constrained by the "holy trinity".

Plus, please include non-combat skills. Things like being able to use speechcraft to talk your way out of situations, streetwise to get information from seedy sources etc. really make role playing games... role playing games.
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Definitely the noncombat too. Though I have to admit that sometimes I 'speeched' myself out of a problem only start up a fight again just for the challenge and the slight curiosity of seeing what other loot might drop (definitely not RPG-esque), even though I'm not a loot person. (As an aside, I wouldn't complain if there was an RPG that had endgame loot just barely better in quality than starting loot). But yeah, speech can be so much greater than 'the win button' or the 'avoid the fight' button. Obsidian is already railing again the 'win button' motif. I hope to see more games follow. At least DA3 seems ready to embrace choices and consequences.
 
I'm playing through Baldur's Gate (TOS from GOG.com, not the EE version) for the first time at the moment, and it feels so much deeper and engaging than even DA:O. I would love for the cRPGs to make some kind of comeback instead of the garbage that DA2 was and that DA3 looks like it will be.
 
Not sure what he's talking about? in the video they clearly zoom the camera out like in DA:O (on the pc) and say it's going to be back in.
 
Stiler said:
Not sure what he's talking about? in the video they clearly zoom the camera out like in DA:O (on the pc) and say it's going to be back in.
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That doesn't zoom out as far as DA:O. I have DA:O installed right now and can confirm this.
 
Just a little bump for some new info, newest trailer released:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO2h4qUNJ60

Good to see some familiar faces in it.

Also a little new specialization of the mage class, The Knight enchanter:

Among the Circles of Magi, only a few mages have the strength of will necessary to focus their energy inward. Wrapped in protective magics and wielding blades of arcane force, the Knight Enchanters are rare, but inspiring sights as they lead the charge into enemy ranks.


Which sounds like the Arcane Warrior but actually worthwhile/more detailed. Blades of Arcane force? Here I come medieval Jedi! lol.



Also they announced the digital deluxe edition (which you can find on origin/gamestop), it gives you:

- Skyhold Throne – Every ruler should sit in a place of high honor, but as the Inquisitor you will have the greatest of all, fashioned from an ancient dragon skull.

• Red Hart Halla – Traverse the perilous, living world atop this great-horned beast.

• Bog Unicorn – Once belonging to an evil marauder, this unique mount has returned to inspire fear into those who would oppose you.

• Bring the world of Thedas wherever you go with the Dragon Age: Inquisition digital soundtrack

• Bonus digital content – to be announced


The Digital Deluxe Edition also includes the mighty Flames of the Inquisition gear!

• Multi-class Weapons: Smite your enemies with the Flames of the Inquisition weapons arsenal. Whether staff or daggers, greatsword or war hammer, these weapons will make short work of your foes.

• Inquisitor Armor: Protect yourself against the onslaught of enemy attacks by suiting up in the Flames of the Inquisition Armor.

• Armored Mount: Flames of the Inquisition gear also includes a valiant steed, complete with its own set of Inquisition Armor forged from the flames of battle.
 
Does not look too bad. Just hope it isn't another ughy game.
 
Skripka said:
Not really....Asking "what the hell went right with DA2?", now that would be a much easier task with a far shorter list of things to enumerate
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What went right:

Voice for main character a la Mass Effect

What went wrong:
Loss of tactical camera
Loss of tactical combat
Teleporting enemies
Loss of customization of companions (You couldn't make any mage into a healer for instance, you want a healer? You GOT to roll with Anders, tank? You got to roll with Aveline, plus no equipping them with gear you find).
Super-repetitive art - For a game that's much much smaller in scope/setting then DA:O they sure did make the city about as lifeless and dull as they could, reusing assets all over the place there was no variety in the environments really.
 
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