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DoubleSight DS-263N - 26"

nomu said:
You can remove the shroud around the back ports, just pull until it comes out. Hats off to you if you actually managed to hook up a cable with it on, I was pretty sure that would be impossible.
Click to expand...

No, what I'm saying is, even with the shroud off, the stand still gets in the way. But for the record, I did leave the shroud on.
 
If you wanted to do a triple monitor setup with the DS being the main / middle screen, which screens would matchup the best on the slides?
 
Zetherin said:
The colors look "real" to me on this sRGB mode, even though it may not be "real" enough for you. I'm sorry you view the situation differently, but please don't make it as it's your way or the highway and the monitor sucks.
Click to expand...
This isn't about opinions. This is about facts. You said there are modes to "fix" the wide gamut look, but the modes have no effect on the gamut.

Regardless, the modes suck not because of the gamut, but because sRGB mode distorts the grayscale, and every other mode except TEXT has banding. If that doesn't bother you, that's fine, but the modes and color controls are pretty much useless if you want to make adjustments without distorting the colors. I couldn't get satisfactory colors no matter what settings I tried. I had to calibrate it to get decent colors, but that still doesn't take care of the gamut.

Zetherin said:
As for the video card, I have a 6800 Ultra. I would think that it's powerful enough to run this bad boy, but perhaps it's not.
Click to expand...
I asked because some FX-series cards have trouble with 1920x1200, but a 6800 Ultra shouldn't have problems with DVI. Have you tried rebooting with the monitor plugged in through DVI?
 
ToastyX said:
This isn't about opinions. This is about facts. You said there are modes to "fix" the wide gamut look, but the modes have no effect on the gamut.

Regardless, the modes suck not because of the gamut, but because sRGB mode distorts the grayscale, and every other mode except TEXT has banding. If that doesn't bother you, that's fine, but the modes and color controls are pretty much useless if you want to make adjustments without distorting the colors. I couldn't get satisfactory colors no matter what settings I tried. I had to calibrate it to get decent colors, but that still doesn't take care of the gamut.
Click to expand...

Listen buddy, I've read multiple day long debates regarding the wide gamut issue, especially considering this monitor. There's really no point to argue over the matter, as you just aren't satisfied and there's no swaying you. All I ask is that you stop making it out as if there is some major defect with the monitor that really detracts from it's appearance. There isn't one, and that's "fact". sRGB mode looks decent, and as for your mention of banding, it is subjective. Yes, on your little scale and with your numbers you could tell me it's 'inaccurate', but if it looks good to me, why would I care what your little scale says?

Oh, and for the record, when you use "satisfactory", that does imply an opinion, not fact.

As for even using the DVI, what are the benefits?
 
Zeth:

You are essentially calling your opinion a fact. It isn't. Just because you see nothing wrong with the image quality, doesn't mean others won't.

sRGB mode is just a set of color settings, it doesn't change the gamut. BTW this is what is actually known as a fact. Objective things are fact. Subjective are opinions.

Be satisfied that you like it but realize yours is also an opinion, and not necessarily one that works for everyone. Many people like the effect of feeding sRGB color space values uncorrected into a wide gamut panel. You just happen to be one of the many. Good for you. meant to be done. If you don't care about things like smooth gray scales and consistent color, fine. No need to insult those who do.
 
These last few posts may help alleviate the current shortage of DoubleSights. :)

I'm sure that many people will love the colors/gamut/grayscale/etc. right out of the box (or did we decide it was a bag.) Others will be disappointed with the colors/gamut/grayscale/etc. despite professional calibration. I don't mind hearing from both sides. Please just don't flame, especially when you're asking for help.

When anyone has the time, I would really like to hear if someone who just bought the monitor has been able to see an image when using one of the DVI connections. Thanks.
 
Snowdog said:
Zeth:

You are essentially calling your opinion a fact. It isn't. Just because you see nothing wrong with the image quality, doesn't mean others won't.

sRGB mode is just a set of color settings, it doesn't change the gamut. BTW this is what is actually known as a fact. Objective things are fact. Subjective are opinions.

Be satisfied that you like it but realize yours is also an opinion, and not necessarily one that works for everyone. Many people like the effect of feeding sRGB color space values uncorrected into a wide gamut panel. You just happen to be one of the many. Good for you. meant to be done. If you don't care about things like smooth gray scales and consistent color, fine. No need to insult those who do.
Click to expand...

You've already said exactly what you just said to me to that guy that had the same argument. We're going in circles here. The point, however, is that when you guys throw around "inaccurate", "incorrect" and state that I don't care about consistent color or gray scales, that is insulting...not only to me, but many other consumers

If the case was presented without the subtle elitism "we know what's objective, so be happy you're one that doesn't appreciate real colors!", I wouldn't have a problem with you sharing your scale to point out the grave inaccuracies of the colors.

Thanks,

Z
 
X-ray Doc said:
These last few posts may help alleviate the current shortage of DoubleSights. :)

I'm sure that many people will love the colors/gamut/grayscale/etc. right out of the box (or did we decide it was a bag.) Others will be disappointed with the colors/gamut/grayscale/etc. despite professional calibration. I don't mind hearing from both sides. Please just don't flame, especially when you're asking for help.

When anyone has the time, I would really like to hear if someone who just bought the monitor has been able to see an image when using one of the DVI connections. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Hello,

I just got the DVI working, and don't see a difference from the VGA.

I completely agree concerning the flaming, and will leave upon seeing a war erupt.
 
Zetherin said:
Listen buddy, I've read multiple day long debates regarding the wide gamut issue, especially considering this monitor. There's really no point to argue over the matter, as you just aren't satisfied and there's no swaying you. All I ask is that you stop making it out as if there is some major defect with the monitor that really detracts from it's appearance.
Click to expand...
You're not even reading what I'm saying. I'm not arguing over the gamut. You are. Why do you keep focusing on the gamut? I said the modes suck because of the banding and color distortion. That has nothing to do with the gamut.

Zetherin said:
sRGB mode looks decent, and as for your mention of banding, it is subjective. Yes, on your little scale and with your numbers you could tell me it's 'inaccurate', but if it looks good to me, why would I care what your little scale says?
Click to expand...
Banding and color distortion are not subjective. If I put up a grayscale gradient, it should be smooth and gray throughout. If I switch to any mode other than TEXT or sRGB, the gradient is no longer smooth. If I switch to sRGB mode or make any color adjustments, some shades have color tints because certain parts change more than others. This is why the modes and color adjustments suck. It has nothing to do with numbers or measurements.
 
ToastyX, you have a good eye for these subtle color changes.

Please tell me how I can correct these grave inaccuracies, or should I just send the unit back?

EDIT: Just in case this was perceived as sarcasm, there was none. I'm anxious to know if I wasted $700.
 
Monitor looks fantastic to me. That's my opinion of course. Some people have different requirements and different opinions. Some are just very particular about their monitors.

I think Toasty is just pointing out where he had issues with it. No monitor is perfect after all, but for 700 bucks this is probably as close as you'll get if you like IPS wide gamut monitors :)
 
Dashel said:
Monitor looks fantastic to me. That's my opinion of course. Some people have different requirements and different opinions. Some are just very particular about their monitors.

I think Toasty is just pointing out where he had issues with it. No monitor is perfect after all, but for 700 bucks this is probably as close as you'll get if you like IPS wide gamut monitors :)
Click to expand...

You're right.
 
All I was pointing out is the modes have no effect on the gamut, but the modes do other weird things. That's all. If you're not bothered by that, then don't worry about it. The banding and color distortion are not really noticeable in games or movies. It's only noticeable to me with normal computer use. The banding can be avoided by using TEXT or sRGB mode, and the color distortion can be fixed with calibration, so it's not a major problem, but it'd be nice if the modes worked better.
 
ToastyX said:
All I was pointing out is the modes have no effect on the gamut, but the modes do other weird things. That's all. If you're not bothered by that, then don't worry about it. The banding and color distortion are not really noticeable in games or movies. It's only noticeable to me with normal computer use. The banding can be avoided by using TEXT or sRGB mode, and the color distortion can be fixed with calibration, so it's not a major problem, but it'd be nice if the modes worked better.
Click to expand...

Can you advise me the best way to calibrate? I do think the screen looks fine now, however, I'm curious as to what you are speaking of. So, I would like to at least attempt to view in accurate colors, even though I know this monitor doesn't have the full capability.

I have downloaded your icc profile and installed it via Advanced in Settings (properties). Is this the right manner to install? Do I need further software? I see no difference whatsoever right now.
 
If you want to do your own calibration, you'd need a calibration device and software.

If you just want to try my profile, you must use the monitor settings I posted because the settings correct the white point, and the profile corrects the specific color distortion caused by those settings. The white point will probably vary slightly from unit to unit, but the specific color distortion should remain similar since that's caused by the monitor's firmware. Only the brightness and sharpness can be changed without affecting the colors.

I don't have experience with manually loading profiles in Windows since calibration programs come with a profile loader that takes care of that for you, and it's different in Windows XP vs. Vista. You can install the profile by right-clicking the file and installing it, but you'll still need something to load it.

In Windows XP, you can use this:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/digitalphotography/prophoto/colorcontrol.mspx

In Windows Vista, there's a color management section somewhere in the display settings that can be used to load the profile.



I have new profiles if anyone's interested. These files are smaller, and I set the white point as close to D65 as possible before doing the calibration. These may or may not be better than the previous one I posted, depending on your monitor. Just use the one that looks best to you.

http://www.toastyx.net/DS-263N Calibrated.icc

Settings used:

DV MODE: TEXT
BRIGHTNESS: 0.0%
CONTRAST: 50.0%
SHARPNESS: 40.0%

RED GAIN: 100.0%
GREEN GAIN: 100.0%
BLUE GAIN: 100.0%
RED OFFSET: 43.0%
GREEN OFFSET: 17.0%
BLUE OFFSET: 50.0%
SATURATION: 0.0%



Several people have complained about the brightness, but the only way to go lower is to reduce the contrast. If you'd like to do that, I have a profile for that.

http://www.toastyx.net/DS-263N Low Brightness.icc

Settings used:

DV MODE: TEXT
BRIGHTNESS: 0.0%
CONTRAST: 34.0%
SHARPNESS: 40.0%

RED GAIN: 100.0%
GREEN GAIN: 100.0%
BLUE GAIN: 100.0%
RED OFFSET: 50.0%
GREEN OFFSET: 7.0%
BLUE OFFSET: 48.0%
SATURATION: 0.0%

This brings the brightness down to around 120-130 cd/m², but the contrast ratio will be around 400:1. If that's still too bright for you, I suggest you get used to it because the contrast starts to look bad if I go any lower.
 
Thank you, you've been a tremendous help.

EDIT: Dude, it looks even better now with your initial profile. Photos look a tad less saturated and it presents more of a 'wow' effect somehow...and I wouldn't have even been able to tell the difference without your assistance. Funny how this little bit of tweaking can make this much of a change, at least in my eyes.

Thanks once again,

Z
 
Thanks for posting your gain settings, ToastyX. I'm going to use them as a reference and recalibrate my display.
 
How to find Color Management in Vista control panel:

In Vista they completely reorganized the control panel, and if you try to navigate through the menus like you did for XP you'll be frustrated. Vista is designed with Search as an integrated feature, and you need to use it, especially in the control panel. Simply click the windows button and then click Control Panel to bring up the control panel. Type "color". The text automatically goes into the search string box, you don't even need to click anywhere first. You don't need to hit enter, its a dynamic search. In fact, you don't get the chance. By the time you finish typing the 'r' in color, the search will have Color Management right at the top for you to click on.

Now if your vista is not English-US, you may have to type something else, like "colour", or whatever language you have localized to.

Unfortunately, that's the easy part. Once you get into color management its the same old tabs and buttons stuff, and I have no clue what to do, but that would be the case for me and XP too, since I've never messed with color profiles before.
 
Zeth:

How did you finally get the DVI working?

Toasty:

Thanks for the color profiles. I like the newer profile keeping contrast at 50%.
 
Ordered Tuesday afternoon from newegg, standard shipping, received Thursday morning (under 48 hours!!!).

The box looked well worn with a few bigger dings, but the packaging protected the panel very well. Lots of cables, all with protected ends (a nice touch). Manual is not very thorough and incorrectly describes the stand as height adjustable, but thanks to threads like this, not a problem.

Setup was not too hard once I figured out I needed to pop the back panel off (still a bit tight as mentioned earlier, but not impossible). The base may lack some adjustments, but will do for now. It's solid, and my only complaint is that the rubber feet stick to the glass desk top, so it's a bit inconvenient to move (pull hard, but not so hard you damage the monitor). Then again, I don't need to move it once it's setup, and it will keep the kids from sliding it off the desk and onto the floor...

Then I powered it up....

...then I quickly picked up my jaw and cleaned up the drool before it damaged sensitive electronics.

I'm a professional photographer moving from a dual 17" CRT setup, and this screen is amazing. Running Lightroom and Photoshop, as well as album design software, on a screen this size is a revelation (ok, watching movies, too). Yes, it has LCD and H-IPS limitations and quirks, and I've not yet calibrated so there may still be some challenges, but the quality otherwise is still great and I've no regrets!!

One stuck subpixel (green), but from my working distance, I have to look for it, and it's only noticeable when the screen is dark. Polarizer!! No noticeable backlighting!! Much relief.

I ordered a wide gamut calibrator (Spyder3 Elite, after much debate between it and Eye-One Display 2), expecting it next week, so the real test for me will be in the color accuracy and prints made after calibration. But given the other strengths (and the fact that most of the software I use is color aware and works fine with wide gamut), I expect I'll continue to be thrilled!
 
TNPI said:
Zeth:

How did you finally get the DVI working?
Click to expand...

I'm actually using this as an external monitor on my laptop, as my laptop display recently died. So, I can't just plug and play since it initially detects my original display. It requires, which I just learned, to hold my "Fn" button and then press "F8". This switches from the laptop display to an external.

So, right when I turn the computer on, I press "source" or any button on the DS, and then when it's running through the signal detections I do the Fn, F8, and it picks the screen up immediately on DVI.
 
AMDImaging said:
Yes, it has LCD and H-IPS limitations and quirks, and I've not yet calibrated so there may still be some challenges, but the quality otherwise is still great and I've no regrets!!
Click to expand...

Congratulations on your purchase.

Correction: it has DoubleSight limitations and quirks, NOT H-IPS limitations and quirks.

H-IPS LCD NEC 2690WUXi has been proven to be equal and in some aspects superior to appropriate CRT (SONY GDM F520 at least) regarding color-critical print-target work.
Please be accurate generalizing things beyond your practice.

Again congratulations and good luck!
 
DS-263N is back in stock at Newegg! I was bummed out when they went out of stock a couple days ago when I finally decided to order one. Can't wait to get this, it should be a nice step up from my 19" Viewsonic...
 
Well I've been using mine for about a month now and I'm almost positive it has the polarizer and I've adapted to the brightness pretty well (brighness at contrast 34%). I do have 1 dead pixel and one stuck green subpixel towards the bottom center of the monitor but I barely notice either of them.) I'm past my return period with buy.com but still am under warranty with doublesight of course. Do you guys think its worth it to get a replacement with hopefully the polarizer and no bad pixels or is 2 barely noticable defective pixels pretty normal for this monitor. Has anyone else been able to rma their monitor to doublesight with 2 or less bad pixels? I don't think I'll return mine I'm pretty happy with it I just wanna hear what you guys think.
 
albovin said:
Correction: it has DoubleSight limitations and quirks, NOT H-IPS limitations and quirks.

H-IPS LCD NEC 2690WUXi has been proven to be equal and in some aspects superior to appropriate CRT (SONY GDM F520 at least) regarding color-critical print-target work.
Please be accurate generalizing things beyond your practice.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I was referring primarily to complaints from other posters related to this panel, primarily the screen door effect (which is supposed to be worse on IPS panels, but improved on H-IPS). I was not complaining about its color-critical capabilities (which is why I bought this panel, and which I expect to be a huge asset once calibrated).

I hardly notice the screen door effect even under the most extreme conditions. In fact, I find the lines on the Trinitron CRT's to be far more noticable (and annoying). Anyway, I'm completely sold on this monitor and H-IPS. As a former-CRT-evangelist-turned-H-IPS-convert, I've no buyer's remorse. I love this monitor!
 
I need some help is determining whether I have the polarizer or not.

The only references I have are from Toasty's photos of the screen becoming a bit whitish as you view from an angle. Well, mine doesn't become whitish if you're looking straight from a left or right view, however, if I were to stand up and look down at the monitor, straight down or diagonally down, it becomes whitish.

Does this mean I do or do not have the polarizer?

Can anyone help?
 
As a sidenote to all those still in doubt about this monitor, I just want to say again that the monitor is absolutely beautiful.

While I understand it may not be as color accurate as the NEC series, for a regular user, I really can't notice any of the differences in the greyscale or tinting that many of those versed in the technical matters do (I won't even pretend that I'm versed in these matters, as I really don't know the difference between the gamut, colors or whatnot). I suppose you have to have an eye for such a thing, but as a regular user with no background in any of the technicalities, it's great. With all the changes you can make with the monitor, I'm more than sure anyone can find a settings that suits them.

You really have to see this monitor in real life. These pictures just do not do justice. From someone coming from a 17", there is just a WOW factor. Text and pictures look sharp, and movies and games just look amazing. Really, the environments in my games just look astounding.

I'm very happy with my purchase, and thanks to everyone for their help. I also apologize to those that I may have offended earlier.

Regards,

Z
 
If any of you live around New York area
I have my 2 days old DS-263N for SALE :D

I ordered it on May / 14th / 2008
and received it on May / 16th / 2008
(I can provide you with the receipt)

This is the latest generation with Polarization Filter
no dead / stuck pixel !!!

Please take a look at this post
http://newyork.craigslist.org/que/sys/684223180.html

The display is incredible
I am only selling it because the monitor is
so much bigger than I expected.
I need something smaller that's all :)

please contact me to arrange pick-up
cash only please :)

Thank you

-J
 
highyellow1 said:
Now that we got that solved; is there any monitors that will go perfect next the 26" DS?
Click to expand...
Nothing will match perfectly except another 25.5" monitor. To match the vertical height, you'd need either a 22.5" 4:3 monitor or a 16" 16:10 monitor rotated, neither of which exist. A 17" 5:4 monitor rotated will come close, but it will still be short by a quarter of an inch, and the resolution won't match.

Your best bet is to get two 20" 4:3 monitors like these: http://www.directron.com/lcd2090uxibk.html
 
So, I just recalibrated with my Spyder2 using the offset settings ToastyX posted on the previous page of this thread. It looks even better now! Thanks again for posting those. :)
 
Deinonych said:
So, I just recalibrated with my Spyder2 using the offset settings ToastyX posted on the previous page of this thread. It looks even better now! Thanks again for posting those. :)
Click to expand...

Yeah, it really does!

PS: Can anyone help me with my polarizer question above; I still can't figure out whether I have it or not!
 
ToastyX said:
Nothing will match perfectly except another 25.5" monitor. To match the vertical height, you'd need either a 22.5" 4:3 monitor or a 16" 16:10 monitor rotated, neither of which exist. A 17" 5:4 monitor rotated will come close, but it will still be short by a quarter of an inch, and the resolution won't match.

Your best bet is to get two 20" 4:3 monitors like these: http://www.directron.com/lcd2090uxibk.html
Click to expand...

Wow! Good find on the 20" NEC's!!! Are those wide screen or are they standard format? That's got to be one on the best deals I have seen in a while.
 
I hope they keep the price and quality. I'd like to pick one of these up in a few months.
 
Ive been trying to find a display I can use for both PC work (via DVI) and an XBOX 360 (via DSUB). My biggest complaint with my current monitor (Westy L2410NM) is the horrible black crush...all dark details in 360 games are completely crushed to black. I've read that this issue is a typical characteristic of the VA-type panel which is used in that display. Im considering selling the Westy and buying one of the DoubleSights, but I desperately want to know if my black crush issue will be solved before I take the plunge...I have not read that this issue is typical of IPS panels.

On a slightly different but related note, does the display allow you to adjust gamma on the dsub input? Most XBOX games do not offer the ability to tweak gamma...

Thanks!
 
Anyone Got info on 360 hookup with this thing? How is the scaling and how does it look?

Can i find pictures anywhere of a 360 hooked up to one of these babies? that would totally sell me.

Thanks

-Trib
 
Several people have posted that they put in an order at buy.com after it was out of stock to get in the queue. I did this the other day, but now I'm not certain it was finalized because I've gotten nothing from them at all. I was expecting an acknowledgment that would have said they'll contact me when it comes in, but nothing arrived.
 
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