Doom Eternal

polonyc2

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
19,032
gamers are afraid of games that deviate from the previously established mechanics...they also hate a challenge...[H] is not what it used to be
 

Armenius

Fully [H]
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
22,819
gamers are afraid of games that deviate from the previously established mechanics...they also hate a challenge...[H] is not what it used to be
Eternal didn't deviate from the mechanics in 2016, though. It just expanded them.
 

Mchart

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
4,070
gamers are afraid of games that deviate from the previously established mechanics...they also hate a challenge...[H] is not what it used to be
Again, I just don't think it felt like a good shooter. I had way more fun with Ion Fury and have played through that numerous times now. Something about Eternal just felt off to me, and that's a big deal for a shooter. I think it says a lot that a $14 game like Ion Fury was generally far more enjoyable in my opinion compared to Eternal. IMO Ion Fury had better music, better level design, better pacing, better weapons, better enemy variety, and in some ways the graphics were more impressive given the level of detail on the old BUILD engine.
 

Lateralus

More [H]uman than Human
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
16,085
Again, I just don't think it felt like a good shooter. I had way more fun with Ion Fury and have played through that numerous times now. Something about Eternal just felt off to me, and that's a big deal for a shooter. I think it says a lot that a $14 game like Ion Fury was generally far more enjoyable in my opinion compared to Eternal. IMO Ion Fury had better music, better level design, better pacing, better weapons, better enemy variety, and in some ways the graphics were more impressive given the level of detail on the old BUILD engine.

Have you tried DUSK or Amid Evil yet? I had a blast with Ion Fury too, and the other two are must-haves if you enjoy that old school feel IMO. Some of the level design in them is brilliant.
 
Joined
May 19, 2008
Messages
779
Not really having fun either, maybe I'm just grumpy and old(surprise). About 3 hours into it and don't like it, the mechanics, sorry.

I used to be a big Quake player back in the day, before Counter-Strike.
 

Mchart

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
4,070
Have you tried DUSK or Amid Evil yet? I had a blast with Ion Fury too, and the other two are must-haves if you enjoy that old school feel IMO. Some of the level design in them is brilliant.
Haven't tried either because I haven't had the time. I did pickup Wrath: Aeon of Ruin which is still under development, but it's pretty killer and is pretty close to the Quake 2/Hexen era of games.
 

Drexion

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 14, 2004
Messages
1,328
gamers hate a challenge...[H] is not what it used to be
Considering how loved and successful the Soulsborne series is, I'd say this is definitely false.

I'm guessing it's more about expectations, when someone starts up a game of a specific genre or franchise, they put themselves in a specific mood to enjoy it as much as they could. So someone starting up a Doom game puts themselves in the mood for some mindless fun FPS action, but then in this game you're fighting bullet sponges as a glass cannon with low ammo capacity, barely able to take damage while having to forage for ammo/health almost like a survival game. Expectations destroyed and fun goes out the window.

Just a guess on my part as to why it's getting a lot of backlash. Doom 2016 was almost perfect, all they had to do was continue the formula instead of going into another direction. Save that for another franchise.
 

Drexion

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 14, 2004
Messages
1,328
You do realize that according to from software, 85pct of players never even beat the first boss in dark souls 3 right?
So it's the same as any other type of entertainment? We're no longer in the 90's, due to the vast amount of entertainment competition available nowadays almost ALL forms of entertainment (tv, movies, games, sports, streaming, etc) sees massive drop offs in viewer count during the first 10-20% of the final production. (obviously there's a sharper drop for difficult content like the Souls games)

In Path of Exile something like 98% of people who play it don't kill the first Act boss either. Still it's currently the #1 most successful isometric arpg out there atm in terms of popularity/player count. Players dropping means nothing, if anything it's a positive in that the devs didn't dumb down the content to cater to the lowest common denominator like so much console games did with the 'Ubisoft open world formula'.
 

Drexion

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 14, 2004
Messages
1,328
Now that the game is no longer new and the "new hype" has worn off more and more people are posting exactly the same criticisms as other players did when the game was released without caring about being flamed by the fanboys. Here's a summary since you keep ignoring the valid points in this thread:

It's more about expectations, when someone starts up a game of a specific genre or franchise, they put themselves in a specific mood to enjoy it as much as they could. So someone starting up a new Doom game puts themselves in the mood for some mindless fun FPS action, but then in this game they find themselves playing a glass cannon, fighting bullet sponges, having low ammo capacity, barely able to take damage while having to forage for ammo/health like a survival game while dodging ground effects like an isometric ARPG. Expectations destroyed and fun goes out the window.

Players didn't sign up for a survival game, they signed up to shoot shoot bang bang, with the occasional horror elements, as the franchise has been for the past 25 years.
 

polonyc2

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
19,032
Now that the game is no longer new and the "new hype" has worn off more and more people are posting exactly the same criticisms as other players did when the game was released without caring about being flamed by the fanboys. Here's a summary since you keep ignoring the valid points in this thread:

It's more about expectations, when someone starts up a game of a specific genre or franchise, they put themselves in a specific mood to enjoy it as much as they could. So someone starting up a new Doom game puts themselves in the mood for some mindless fun FPS action, but then in this game they find themselves playing a glass cannon, fighting bullet sponges, having low ammo capacity, barely able to take damage while having to forage for ammo/health like a survival game while dodging ground effects like an isometric ARPG. Expectations destroyed and fun goes out the window.

Players didn't sign up for a survival game, they signed up to shoot shoot bang bang, with the occasional horror elements, as the franchise has been for the past 25 years.

that's not actually a valid description of the gameplay....you get used to the new mechanics in no time...I didn't like the chainsaw mechanic in the beginning but after 10 minutes it becomes natural...it's perfectly balanced...you're supposed to run short on ammo, armor etc but it's not the same as a survival game...you pretty much find infinite amounts of everything all over the map with every fight...all you have to do is constantly be on the attack

Doom Eternal much like Doom 2016 or even something like Unreal Tournament wants the player to constantly be on the move...if you want to play it as a shooter where you can stand still and blast away or camp behind cover then this is not the game...watch some gameplay videos of people playing and you'll see the game flows very well...I might even take some videos next time I play...
 

Drexion

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 14, 2004
Messages
1,328
you get used to the new mechanics in no time
Correct, however if there are too many new mechanics, say 10 - there will be players who can get used to maybe 7-8 of them, but not the last 1-2, then just quit the game. I hated the ground effects the most while I could tolerate most of the other changes. Killing some enemies (like the Mancubus iirc) would spawn high damage ground effects which suck for a first person camera game.

For someone else it might be the platforming, or the low ammo etc - with so many changes to the core game loop there will be a lot more dissatisfied players. Maybe they should have taken a page from other developers and kept the base gameplay the same but put all the changes in a separate "survival" mode or something.
 

OFaceSIG

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 31, 2009
Messages
2,457
I gave up man. I got stuck in this one part with seemingly unlimited enemies coming at me. Set the game to easy and moved on LOL.
 

T4rd

Fully [H]
Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
18,102
Are they still releasing an RTX/DLSS patch for this at some point? I'm currently replaying through Doom 2016 again and would like to jump to this afterwards, but I wanted to wait until it was patched if it's still going to be. I'm guessing they're waiting for next gen consoles to debut it at this point, but I wish they would just say that instead of radio silence about it.
 

polonyc2

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
19,032
I still find this review to be a good write-up on the game...

if you go into Doom Eternal expecting a repeat of the game you played in 2016, you'll be disappointed. Doom Eternal will also kick your butt...

That's because Doom Eternal plays in a way that is significantly different than its predecessor. Sure, you have many of the same tools, but enemies are faster and far more aggressive than their 2016 counterparts. In most instances, each one also requires that you use a specific weapon to take them out. For example, one of the best ways to deal with cacodemons early on is to use the combat shotgun's sticky bomb mod to lob a grenade at them before they're able to get close to you. You combine this with the fact your character can't carry much ammo, and it means Doom Eternal forces you to switch between weapons at almost every moment. Quickly swapping between guns has always been in the DNA of arena shooters, but Eternal forces you to internalize this behavior in a way that -- unless you played it at its harder difficulties -- Doom 2016 did not.

At first, I hated this about Eternal. Until you get the hang of its gameplay loop, you always feel like you don't have enough ammo to finish fights. Ironically for a game that's all about speed, Doom Eternal asks that you be patient while you learn how to play on its terms. Some players will hate this, and I did for a time too. But once you start mastering its mechanics, Doom Eternal's battles can be thrilling...

https://www.engadget.com/doom-eternal-fps-irl-133006155.html
 

T4rd

Fully [H]
Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
18,102
Are they still releasing an RTX/DLSS patch for this at some point? I'm currently replaying through Doom 2016 again and would like to jump to this afterwards, but I wanted to wait until it was patched if it's still going to be. I'm guessing they're waiting for next gen consoles to debut it at this point, but I wish they would just say that instead of radio silence about it.

Hmm, this just went on sale on Steam for $30, which I think it was just at that price for the summer sale too. Still not sure if I'll wait for the RTX patch now, but I'm betting it'll be on sale for this price or less by the time it does get patched.
 

Lateralus

More [H]uman than Human
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
16,085
Hmm, this just went on sale on Steam for $30, which I think it was just at that price for the summer sale too. Still not sure if I'll wait for the RTX patch now, but I'm betting it'll be on sale for this price or less by the time it does get patched.

For anyone on the fence...

I received an email from Fanatical today - it's $26.39 there (24 hour sale) and you get a free game + a 5% coupon.
 
  • Like
Reactions: T4rd
like this
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
2,660
Bought this game during the Steam sale for half price, was not impressed with the game. The frequent double jumping soon got repetitive and annoying which made me lost interest in this game, which is a shame because I really enjoyed Doom 2016.
 

Bankie

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Messages
1,730
I bought Eternal within a week of it coming out and put maybe 4 hours into it in one sitting and haven't started it up since. I don't really know why. I thought it was enjoyable during that 4 hours but when I'm looking for something to play and see it in my library I just skip it for some reason. I think I just have too many games that I find more rewarding to play: Sekiro, Hell Let Loose, MTG: Arena, LoL, Doom 2016, or another Hollow Knight play-through always seem to win out.
 

polonyc2

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
19,032
Noblechairs has teamed up with Bethesda to create a Doom inspired gaming chair...following up the Fallout inspired gaming chair from earlier this year, the latest Noblechairs creation is ready to rip and tear ergonomics a new one

The Noblechairs Hero DOOM Edition features a pentagram design, etched in red on the chair's black PU-leather...the official Doom logo is also etched into the headrest on both sides, one in white and one in black, and the chair features matching red highlights down either side...on the back, just underneath the sigil design, you'll find the words 'RIP AND TEAR'...the Noblechairs Hero DOOM Edition launches today, and will be available to purchase worldwide for $500..

 

Flybye

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
293
I haven't missed a Doom game except for Eternal. What everyone has mentioned about the jumping and so fourth is what has me worried and prevented me from buying it. The constant bombardment of enemies is something I will embrace and know I will love, but this rocking climbing and other stuff in Eternal? Meh.
 

J3RK

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
9,584
I keep hearing that if I don’t like this game the deficiencies are my own. I keep hearing “once you get the hang of the game loop” blah blah blah. Umm... I’m just not into this “game loop”. Period. I can do it, but I find no joy in it. I’m not going to cry about it. Many people didn’t like Doom 3 and I absolutely love it. I also love 2016. I’ve come to the conclusion that as big a fan of Doom as I am, I don’t have to like everything with the name.
 

Lateralus

More [H]uman than Human
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
16,085
I keep hearing that if I don’t like this game the deficiencies are my own. I keep hearing “once you get the hang of the game loop” blah blah blah. Umm... I’m just not into this “game loop”. Period. I can do it, but I find no joy in it. I’m not going to cry about it. Many people didn’t like Doom 3 and I absolutely love it. I also love 2016. I’ve come to the conclusion that as big a fan of Doom as I am, I don’t have to like everything with the name.

You NEED to check out Dusk if you haven’t already. It’s friggin’ great. Very creepy old-school style shooter and has some really impressive levels. I know you’ve talked about being really intrigued by the weird, huge machinery in Doom and other iD games...well, in one level in Dusk you’re trying to navigate through a huge, sinister meat grinder. And the soundtrack is pretty amazing as well. I felt that draw and excitement to keep firing the game up until I finished it, and that’s somewhat rare for me these days.
 
  • Like
Reactions: J3RK
like this

polonyc2

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
19,032
I keep hearing that if I don’t like this game the deficiencies are my own. I keep hearing “once you get the hang of the game loop” blah blah blah. Umm... I’m just not into this “game loop”. Period. I can do it, but I find no joy in it. I’m not going to cry about it. Many people didn’t like Doom 3 and I absolutely love it. I also love 2016. I’ve come to the conclusion that as big a fan of Doom as I am, I don’t have to like everything with the name.

you need to turn in your id Software fanboy card :p
 
  • Like
Reactions: J3RK
like this

J3RK

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
9,584
you need to turn in your id Software fanboy card :p

Maybe so... :D

Nah, I still think they’re one of the best studios around, even now. They make games for more people than just me.

It is a bit concerning that I’m not a huge fan of RAGE 2, Youngblood, and Doom Eternal. Different sub-studios of course. At least, even if Eternal isn’t my thing, I do appreciate its aesthetic, polish, and overall panache. Just not my style on many of the mechanics.

Oh well, I still play it. Just not as ravenously as I thought I would.
 

Bees

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Messages
1,202
Render modes, cool.

Still waiting on that ray tracing option...
 

J3RK

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
9,584
You NEED to check out Dusk if you haven’t already. It’s friggin’ great. Very creepy old-school style shooter and has some really impressive levels. I know you’ve talked about being really intrigued by the weird, huge machinery in Doom and other iD games...well, in one level in Dusk you’re trying to navigate through a huge, sinister meat grinder. And the soundtrack is pretty amazing as well. I felt that draw and excitement to keep firing the game up until I finished it, and that’s somewhat rare for me these days.

It's on my list. I like Amid Evil quite a bit. I'm sure I'll like Dusk. I actually love simple Quake/Quake 2/Q3A style play. I also like things with a lot more complexity like the System Shocks for example, so anything in between is typically spot-on for me. Doom 3, Prey, Dishonored come to mind.

Doom Eternal is actually great on so many levels. I just don't like being locked into the specific "loop" they chose to force on players now. I like a bit more choice in weaponry and approach to each battle. It's still a great game.
 

Lateralus

More [H]uman than Human
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
16,085
It's on my list. I like Amid Evil quite a bit. I'm sure I'll like Dusk. I actually love simple Quake/Quake 2/Q3A style play. I also like things with a lot more complexity like the System Shocks for example, so anything in between is typically spot-on for me. Doom 3, Prey, Dishonored come to mind.

Doom Eternal is actually great on so many levels. I just don't like being locked into the specific "loop" they chose to force on players now. I like a bit more choice in weaponry and approach to each battle. It's still a great game.

Cool. I sort of thought that Amid Evil had some Heretic/Hexen influences, while Dusk took touches from Doom/Blood/Quake. Amid Evil had some really great level design too, though I loved the dark and (at times VERY) unsettling mood of Dusk. Both are great games though, and a worthy addition to any old-school shooter fan's library.

I too think that there are a lot of great things about Doom Eternal, but it's a definite change and I can see why people are polarized on it. Some people likely would have complained if it was just Doom 2016 with different levels, also. For that reason I think it would have been cool if they made Eternal more like the last one (maybe with some minor gameplay tweaks if needed) and then simply added something like an arcade mode that forced the faster pace and the necessity to use the chainsaw/flame belch/etc. That wouldn't have gotten rid of the jumping sections (which I personally haven't minded too much even if it's not very Doom-y), but the core game would have been closer to what a lot of people wanted and the new gameplay style wouldn't have been forced on everyone. Hell, I'm with you...if they'd made Doom Eternal an ultra modern sequel in the same style and vein of Doom 3, I'd have been ecstatic. But I loved 2016 also, so the fact that Eternal is closer to it is fine too.

Personally I can't wait for the next one. It could be a real opportunity for the Doom franchise to go back to its roots rather than trying to evolve.
 
  • Like
Reactions: J3RK
like this

J3RK

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
9,584
Cool. I sort of thought that Amid Evil had some Heretic/Hexen influences, while Dusk took touches from Doom/Blood/Quake. Amid Evil had some really great level design too, though I loved the dark and (at times VERY) unsettling mood of Dusk. Both are great games though, and a worthy addition to any old-school shooter fan's library.

I too think that there are a lot of great things about Doom Eternal, but it's a definite change and I can see why people are polarized on it. Some people likely would have complained if it was just Doom 2016 with different levels, also. For that reason I think it would have been cool if they made Eternal more like the last one (maybe with some minor gameplay tweaks if needed) and then simply added something like an arcade mode that forced the faster pace and the necessity to use the chainsaw/flame belch/etc. That wouldn't have gotten rid of the jumping sections (which I personally haven't minded too much even if it's not very Doom-y), but the core game would have been closer to what a lot of people wanted and the new gameplay style wouldn't have been forced on everyone. Hell, I'm with you...if they'd made Doom Eternal an ultra modern sequel in the same style and vein of Doom 3, I'd have been ecstatic. But I loved 2016 also, so the fact that Eternal is closer to it is fine too.

Personally I can't wait for the next one. It could be a real opportunity for the Doom franchise to go back to its roots rather than trying to evolve.

Agree with all of this. Your idea would be perfect. An arcade mode or challenge mode that keeps the ammo low, requires all the specific kill sequences to keep going. That would be spot-on for that style of play. Then more 2016 style for old-school players that just want more Doom. Or switch it around, and make the old-school mode, and leave normal the way it is. :D Sometimes semantics matter. :D I still need to finish this game. I just play it in smaller doses than I normally would. This is actually fine though, because maybe I'll be able to try it in RTX while I'm still on my original play. :p
 

polonyc2

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
19,032
Doom Eternal is actually great on so many levels. I just don't like being locked into the specific "loop" they chose to force on players now. I like a bit more choice in weaponry and approach to each battle. It's still a great game.

the Doom Eternal haters should just say the obvious...it's too challenging for them and they can't deal with it...saying that the gameplay loop, new mechanics are not good is pretty much saying that they find the game too hard but don't want to admit that for fear of being labeled
 

Drexion

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 14, 2004
Messages
1,328
saying that the gameplay loop, new mechanics are not good is pretty much saying that they find the game too hard
This is quite a reductive statement. If your game series belongs to 'genre A', but you heavy-handedly put elements from 'genre B' into its core game loop in the latest release, then people are going to compare your game to both genres, A and B. And now there will be a much larger library of games and game mechanics that will be compared to your game.

Doom Eternal put elements from the platforming and survival genres into its core game loop. Survival especially. Things like starting off weak, with low-life, low armor, low survivability, high life/damage enemies, low ammo counts, opponent bullet sponges, needing to scrounge for ammo/health, environmental damage etc are all things you would find in the survival genre. If I wanted to play a game with Survival mechanics, "Doom" is the last franchise that comes to mind. I'd play one of the games from these lists, which do it 1000% times better:
DigitalTrends: The best survival games of all time
PCGamer: The best survival games on PC
PCGamesSN: The best survival games on PC
PopularMechanics: The 25 Best Survival Games

I glanced through those lists and they are packed with tons of awesome games that implement Survival Mechanics in a top notch manner, in that their games are designed from the ground up around them. No feelings of 'tacked on' or 'forced' into another genre completely.

Doom 2016 was so well received the core game loop of its sequel should have been left alone. I like that the devs wanted to experiment with survival mechanics, but it should have been in another separate "Survival" game mode selectable from the menu on new game start, exactly the way other developers do it.
 

polonyc2

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
19,032
This is quite a reductive statement. If your game series belongs to 'genre A', but you heavy-handedly put elements from 'genre B' into its core game loop in the latest release, then people are going to compare your game to both genres, A and B. And now there will be a much larger library of games and game mechanics that will be compared to your game.

Doom 2016 was so well received the core game loop of its sequel should have been left alone. I like that the devs wanted to experiment with survival mechanics, but it should have been in another separate "Survival" game mode selectable from the menu on new game start, exactly the way other developers do it.

so developers cannot evolve gameplay and need to keep it the exact same way as previous games?...no changes at all?...Doom Eternal is the exact same core Doom gameplay with some additional mechanics...why is it so hard to adjust to using a chainsaw for ammo, flame belch for armor and glory kills for health?
 
Last edited:
Top