Don't Talk to Aliens

Didn't any of you see the movie The Arrival? Its already happening!! The reason for global warming is caused by the aliens trying to terraform Earth to be identical to their home world
 
Can we assume diplomacy is even possible? We sure as hell won't be able to talk to aliens if they communicate via some kind of quantum pulses we don't even know exist.

I'm with Hawking - don't tell anyone we're here. Hell, even telling them would be probably useless given it's not likely they'll even be able to understand anything we sent them - who knows what methods they use to communicate - or even if they communicate to begin with - or even if they are indeed a they. We can't assume anything at all.
 
The idea that aliens will be peaceful is hugely absurd. There is no way they will be peaceful unless we can be able to exact the same amount of harm they can do to us. The universe is dangerous and there is barely any room for sympathy. Humanity may have "evolved" to try and eliminate war but that does not mean that extra-terrestrials will view us in the same form but rather an opposition to their own advancement. The idea of Star Trek is great but we know too much about ourselves that it will not be possible. Human nature goes against what is shown in Star Trek. "Oh we got rid of money!" Awesome? There will be assholes who seek power and authority to fuck things up. Star Trek shows that in regards to humanity? Barely.
 
Every time I read a Stephen Hawking quote I mentally do it in his computer voice. Hail MC Hawking.
 
The problem I see is that his math is bass-ackwards, which is quite scary given that math is supposed to be one of his strong points.

Yeah, it is pretty much given that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe. It is also pretty much given that inter-galactic travel is impossible. So the odds of intelligent life sharing the UNIVERSE with us is entirely irrelevant to the odds of them showing up to visit us on our planet.

For that matter, even the odds of intelligent life living concurrently with us in our galaxy is irrelevant. Any such life form will be heading towards the CENTER of the galaxy where there are more resources closer together. They won't be coming out to our arm of the galaxy.

So basically all that matters is the odds of intelligent life living concurrently with us in our arm of the galaxy in a location such that we are along their way towards the denser center of the galaxy. The odds of this are probably roughly the same as someone winning the main prize in the Powerball game every drawing in a row for 20 years while buying only one ticket per drawing. Also known as no chance at all.

Aliens are not here, and they are never coming. For all intents and purposes we are entirely alone in this universe and that is just the way it is, and always will be.
 
Parmenides said:
You're probably right. If really intelligent, they could just setup mining facilities in certain key areas as they could give us a treaty offer we couldn't refuse. Plus, they probably would want to study us rather than exterminate us. Hopefully not too many human lab rat experiments. If the Western countries found inferior but intelligent life. We wouldn't just kill them off now.
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If they could travel across the universe, they would have no reason to study us.
 
arentol said:
The problem I see is that his math is bass-ackwards, which is quite scary given that math is supposed to be one of his strong points.

Yeah, it is pretty much given that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe. It is also pretty much given that inter-galactic travel is impossible. So the odds of intelligent life sharing the UNIVERSE with us is entirely irrelevant to the odds of them showing up to visit us on our planet.

For that matter, even the odds of intelligent life living concurrently with us in our galaxy is irrelevant. Any such life form will be heading towards the CENTER of the galaxy where there are more resources closer together. They won't be coming out to our arm of the galaxy.

So basically all that matters is the odds of intelligent life living concurrently with us in our arm of the galaxy in a location such that we are along their way towards the denser center of the galaxy. The odds of this are probably roughly the same as someone winning the main prize in the Powerball game every drawing in a row for 20 years while buying only one ticket per drawing. Also known as no chance at all.

Aliens are not here, and they are never coming. For all intents and purposes we are entirely alone in this universe and that is just the way it is, and always will be.
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you make some good points. But speaking from a plausible but currently sci-fi base... there is the possibility of wormholes and and various other forms of travel through space-time, also possibility of things such as string theory and dimensions being shown to have merit as time moves forward.

so while I would agree that other intelligent life would certainly be bound by the same laws of physics and science that govern us... its not impossible to see in our lifetimes depending on where their research went. Though as i said you have some excellent points.

as for hostile/peaceful thing. I think a few people sort of hit it spot on... speaking from a purely logical standpoint...if they have the technology to be able to travel through the universe.... i would go so far as to say they don't need anything from us... so IF they even bothered to pay attention to us it would probably be a stopover to say "whats up" more than anything...because simply put...we would most likely be insignificant enough to be worth ignoring or just doing a quick flyby on their way to something that is actually worth a damn...maybe at best we would become an intergalactic refueling station or some shit....

so i think hostile/non hostile is beside the point...we as a people simply aren't worth their time for a couple more centuries until we start doing some of the actual fun science.
 
CryingGod said:
If they could travel across the universe, they would have no reason to study us.
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To them, we might be a different form of life and they might be curious enough to spare some resources to study our world.

Just like how we're hunting for life on Mars or Saturn moon. If any, we'll probably find only alien microbs, but despite being a more primitive and simple life form, we would still be interested in studying them as a different life form that evolved in a completely different planet
 
Intelligence often results in ways to kill more quicker with less impact on those commiting the killing and with the ability to justify it to everyone...at least that is how history so far seems to show. I tend to think he is just telling to perhaps be a little bit more careful as we explore more and further out in to space.
 
Even the best estimates of planets with inteligent life is tiny, why would aliens with technology sufficient to build interstella spaceships go and find a planet like ours to harvest materials, lets face it, it's way more effort to kill/enslave 7 billion people only to mine back resources, than to find a barrent planet and mine resources there.
 
based on what? the number of galaxies and stars? movies he saw? what science has to do with anything he said? I can come up with similar views any time, give me a documentary and I’ll tell you my Aliens theory, it’ll include hot chicks.

if he’s right I hope they bring their own tools, cuz I aint workin for no aliens.
 
Define violence.....we are plenty "violent" to other species....and to the alien, we'd be "another species".....so really, what's to say we're not going to be the new lab rat?
 
Dunno. Sounds like it could be US in about 100 years.
 
The warning is pointless. At the speed and strength with which our messages to outer space propagate, the only way any aliens would hear them over the noise the sun itself makes is if they were already on their way here. And if they're coming here, hiding doesn't do us much good.
 
aliens are going to pissed to find out we are hobos too and will steal their shit. we also have meth addicts that will be going through their ships
 
Its times like this, where I need Michio Kaku to explain this to me in a Sesame Street fashion.

You see stiltner, Earth is like a crum of bread, and you are like the dust that forms on that bread, and then someone eats you, nom nom nom.

I love listening to him, he's so utterly and disgustingly brilliant it makes me sick. Dr. Steve hates his guts though (inside reference you get cake if you know it).

I remember him being on TSS way way back in the day, he didn't have gray hair. Apparently physics ages ya like a bitch :)
 
If aliens are technologically advanced, they will by nature be curious beings. Given that they are curious beings, they would wonder what we are up to and study us.

If we humans, as curious beings, discovered planets with beings of slightly inferior intelligence, it would be all over the news. We would study them like we would study apes, but even more so. If these alien apes were sitting on resources that would greatly benefit humanity, we might go hostile. But if these apes didn't pose a threat and they didn't have much of what we wanted, or they offered a treaty to let us harvest some resources we wouldn't harm them. Sure we might have some renegade pirates that might want to hurt them, but the developed western nations in general wouldn't want to harm them.

No being, alien or otherwise will just kill for the sake of killing, as long as we didn't pose a threat to their kind and as long as we don't prevent them from obtaining important resources that they want. Hawkings has a faith that there is no God. But given the opposite as true, these aliens would be bound by moral law. Yes, some might do some cruelties as laws are broken, but others would come with benevolent intent. (and hopefully the majority of their kind are on the benevolent side).
 
Parmenides said:
...as long as we didn't pose a threat to their kind and as long as we don't prevent them from obtaining important resources that they want.
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...Right. I can't imagine an entire planet with multiple independant nations harbouring weapons of mass destruction being a threat in this 'giant, large space-ship' theoretical situation. After all, what can a nuke do to hurt a 474 if it was 1,000 times the size and capable of space flight? I'm thinking lots of damage.

Besides, if someone showed up today and politely asked for all or 75% of earth's fresh water supply, I'm sure we souldn't prevent them from obtaining those important resources they want. Heck, some could argue wars have been fought over Livestock, Silk, Silver, Sugar, Gold, Oil, Profit, etc throughout our entire history and including recently.
 
...but, but What if those aliens are led by a central being -- we'll call him Hal More -- and they just came to (sternly) lecture us about our lack of caring towards global warming? AHH! We're all screwed!
 
WBurchnall said:
...Right. I can't imagine an entire planet with multiple independant nations harbouring weapons of mass destruction being a threat in this 'giant, large space-ship' theoretical situation. After all, what can a nuke do to hurt a 474 if it was 1,000 times the size and capable of space flight? I'm thinking lots of damage.

Besides, if someone showed up today and politely asked for all or 75% of earth's fresh water supply, I'm sure we souldn't prevent them from obtaining those important resources they want. Heck, some could argue wars have been fought over Livestock, Silk, Silver, Sugar, Gold, Oil, Profit, etc throughout our entire history and including recently.
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Given they want our stuff and we don't let them have it... then yes, we would have trouble.

Like I said, if nukes posed a threat then things would get dicey. But if they are so advanced that they could peacefully disable our nukes with ease and or effective force barriers then we wouldn't be much of a threat.

If aliens were 100x more advanced than humans, then they probably wouldn't care about our resources much and they probably won't care about our weapons (akin to pea shooters). If they were 1.5x more advanced than humans.... well then, our nukes would hurt, and they probably might want our Platinum and maybe oil. Well, then my friend, we would be in for hell.
 
All hail Xenu!

And in other news today eminent physicis Prof. Stephen W. Hawking embraced Scientology. :D
 
I have to agree with Hawking on this point. The big question everyone is skipping over here is why. Why would anyone make the long/hard journey to another inhabitable planet? It would be a safe bet that regardless of how technologically advanced a species would be, any trip to Earth would be resource intensive. So unless we are talking about a species having inter planetary travel that emulates the Star Trek genre the trip would be one way.

Again, why would someone make that trip? It wouldn't be to study us. It wouldn't be to broker a new trade agreement. It wouldn't even be a friendly "Hi, I'm your neighbor. Just thought I'd introduce myself" situation. If anyone is coming they are coming to take whatever they want by force.

Our own history shows us that this is the case. The need to expand an empire or acquire more resources has been the doom of many lesser civilizations throughout human history. Humankind would be no different if we would ever be visited.

I'll put it another way. What do you think will happen when the earth becomes overpopulated, overpolluted, and unlivable? We will become the nomadic wanderers seeking the nearest inhabitable planet. With our planet gone and the survival of our species at stake would you really give a rat's ass about an indigenous species on another planet? Doubtfull, regardless of what modern cinema may preach. Humans are some nasty creatures capable of some terrible things, the worst made in the name of science, exploration, and expansion.
 
Any assumptions about how other forms of "Life" would interact with us are just silly speculation. It's akin to some one who lived over 4,000 years ago trying to determine the winner of the 2010 baseball World Series, that they couldn't have possibly even knew existed.
 
Really.... what happens really depends upon which faith is true.

If Atheism where true, then Hawkings would probably be right. We could expect a lot of cruelty and slavery if not quick and massive death.

If Pantheism were true, then aliens would come and help us poor fellows and usher us into a new age of advancement and enlightenment.

If Christianity were true, then aliens couldn't interfere with the second coming of Christ. Maybe the only aliens that exist are angels and demons.

If Scientology were true, *cough* lol, well, I might get sued if I say anything. Maybe even Xenu would sue me. :p

If Islam were true, hmmm, not sure... maybe the alien infidel invasion would be repelled, and we'd hose them.

I'm being silly on these last ones here, but seriously "what would happen" depends on which system of beliefs truly corresponds to reality.
 
I would choose to be optimistic.

Regardless of history or level of technology, interstellar travel is going to be a massive undertaking, requiring huge collaboration and singular purpose.

Asshole races wouldn't be able to pull that off, they'd wipe themselves out or get mired in bickering long before they got it together to get into space.

I genuinely believe that the only races out there that might be able to pull it off are basically peace loving hippies.

Also there's the motivation issue, why would they even bother?

One of the worst aspects of humans as a race (and one of our worst problems) is our stupid belief that we are somehow special or interesting or possess somethang that would be worth coming here to take.

Coming to earth to plunder resources would be like me traveling to Australia to buy sand for my yard ... if Australia was on Mars... totally retarded.
 
hellokeith said:
Hawking believes in aliens. That makes him religious. Interesting..
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"Belief" was only used by John and the article writer. Hawkings musings don't equate to faith-based worship, in any case.

Seems pretty clear that what he "suggests" (his word) is based on rational assumptions. It is a fully falsifiable hypothesis: You just have to find a non-conquering, nomadic, higher intelligence to disprove it. Piece of cake.
 
Exavior said:
Exactly just look at today's world. There is no more violence in the world like there was years ago. Isn't it great to live in a world where there is only peace.... oh wait that isn't right.

Over time as civilizations advance so do their weapons.
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I know right, since the invention of the nuclear warhead we have had a frenzy flinging them back and forth between us and other nuclear capable nations.
 
Remind me again why they would steal resources from earth instead of mars?

I'm pretty sure they aren't running their starships on fossil fuels, and they would be more interested in naturally occuring radioactive elements or raw ore than harvesting our pine trees.

So when your choices are to take a completely defenseless plantet like mars or attack something like earth that while won't be able to resist your attacks, will still require attacking, use of the resources you are trying to gather, and depending upon weapon technologies, requiring radioactive cleanup before the resource gathering could begin, which one would you choose to gather from?
 
vengence said:
Remind me again why they would steal resources from earth instead of mars?

I'm pretty sure they aren't running their starships on fossil fuels, and they would be more interested in naturally occuring radioactive elements or raw ore than harvesting our pine trees.

So when your choices are to take a completely defenseless plantet like mars or attack something like earth that while won't be able to resist your attacks, will still require attacking, use of the resources you are trying to gather, and depending upon weapon technologies, requiring radioactive cleanup before the resource gathering could begin, which one would you choose to gather from?
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Not to mention, the virus's, bacteria, and parasites that they would have to hassle themselves to be concerned with.
 
To add to my earlier point, If intelligent "Life" were able to travel intergalactically, the universe is so vast that the chances of them finding us is ridiculously small, and would likely more time than our world has left.
 
Yeah uh this is pretty much exactly what happened in Avatar...except it was the humans raiding planets for its resources, not aliens raiding our planet. Coincidentally Avatar just came out on DVD...looks like the Hawk Man watched it on his portable command center.
 
BigBeef said:
Yeah uh this is pretty much exactly what happened in Avatar...except it was the humans raiding planets for its resources, not aliens raiding our planet. Coincidentally Avatar just came out on DVD...looks like the Hawk Man watched it on his portable command center.
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That movie was retarded anyways.
 
Aliens mining resources:

Option 1: Land on a planet, dig for resources, contend with gravity well to get them off the planet, send home for $PROFIT$

Option 2: Map everything in a solar system for mineral content, fly up to asteroid/moon/etc, dig out resources, send home for $PROFIT$

which is easier?
 
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