I swapped to AMD when the 3xxx series came out since miners made them unavailable and I also didn’t like the disrespectful amount of VRAM on the cards. (I also didn’t care much for ray tracing at the time.) Next gen is up in the air what I’m going to buy at the moment. But I’ll need a new card to play GTA 6 with the fps and quality I want at 4K.
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DLSS 5 - Generative AI
- Thread starter sharknice
- Start date
Fair, then obviously not something you'll be messing with at the moment, which really isn't a bad thing since it is the early days and if this sticks around, which I imagine it will, it'll improve.
Id' just say don't judge it too much until you've seen it in operation. Like path tracing, it is something that you really don't get the full experience of on Youtube. Even playing with it in games where I don't care for it (Satisfactory is one I've tried) it is clear it is doing way more than a simple filter. It has a big impact on how light is handled.
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Yeah, it only knows one way of doing things. And it makes everything the same.
equinox654
Gawd
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Dont forget if you use optiscaler you can lower the DLSS 5 output resolution down to 75% at barely any quality loss.
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The Official Arrival of DLSS 5
Release Highlights
Game Ready for NBA 2K27
This new Game Ready Driver provides the best gaming experience for NBA 2K27 featuring DLSS 5 3D-Guided Neural Rendering as well as the latest new games supporting DLSS and RTX technologies including Onimusha: Way of the Sword.
Fixed Gaming Bugs
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https://www.3dmark.com/compare/pr/4013574/pr/4006214
GeForce Game Ready Driver 616.64 | Windows 11
Release Highlights
Game Ready for NBA 2K27
This new Game Ready Driver provides the best gaming experience for NBA 2K27 featuring DLSS 5 3D-Guided Neural Rendering as well as the latest new games supporting DLSS and RTX technologies including Onimusha: Way of the Sword.
Fixed Gaming Bugs
- N/A
- N/A
---
https://www.3dmark.com/compare/pr/4013574/pr/4006214
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it doesn't seem that great ? i'm playing now and immediately remember Fight Night back in the day and feel that even with rasterization you could achieve these results ... years ago
Fight Night
(ancient game, mind you, absolutely ancient and multiple generations behind now)
NBA 2K
Fight Night
(ancient game, mind you, absolutely ancient and multiple generations behind now)
NBA 2K
The reply will be, yes, but with a longer and more expensive development cycle.
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why? they have Generative AI to speed up the development cycle now
bet it closes the gap on the backend for rasterization if you apply the technology
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Looking at Fight Night compared to NBA 2K below.. i just feel rasterization potential is far from over.. and Fight Night is many generations obsolete 2-3 or is it even more ?? imagine Fight Night even at 4K without any other changes
NBA 2K
NBA 2K
There is no limit to the quality of pixels on screen a video game can do, same for the quality of a painting using MSpaint versus using a raytracing tools.
But people spent billions trying to do the best they could all those years and could not make it at acceptable performance, it is compute wise cheaper to make educated guess than calculate usually, this will be really hard to beat per watts.
Fight night had only 2 main characther, with very limited motion, full pre-made and constant stadium lighting and rigid camera angle, did look good but that was a really static situation.
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doesn't seem cheaper at all in terms of compute, seems DLSS have changed from enabling more with less on this DLSS 5 given the big performance hit
monetarily i can't agree, they can use gen ai on the backend rasterization just as quickly and cheaply but unlocking good performance
How so ? how much more compute would have been needed to make that image quality without using that cheap trick ?
This is running virtually all on the Tensor cores and they are what percentage of a GPU ?
My guess soon they will have an NVFP4 version of this and with other tricks will cut the cost by nearly half, 6th gen tensor core and fast evolving better main model, we will rapidly see having better performance versus boosting pathtracing so much to achieve to match its light quality (imo it is already clearly the case today).
The non AI people would certainly reject that. AI is such a charged issue that Steam requires ANY AI involvement be listed on the store page and I have seen threads in those games demanding boycotts even for the smallest use of AI.
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the fps drop is significant, how's that considered cheap?
it's now the opposite of the original intent, if anything "DLSS 5 / NR" ought to be a different marketing term than DLSS
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Yikes.
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versus alternative way to achieve that level of quality (of course ?)
How much cheap it is on the memory side is more obvious already (as it is an extreme way to compress information), only ~160-200MB of vram, would the inference for it compute budget was equal to the raster+RT one, would already be obvious that it is not a costly way to achieve this.
Boost the amount of rays and bounce pathtracing use to achieve DLSS 5.0 and it will not run faster (that what they would be doing instead if that was the case), same for using material and shaders precision level for the material quality.
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in practice right now.. i am literally playing NBA 2K27 and it's not even close to mind blowing regardless of what you're saying..
simply the experience isn't worth it.. first hand
are you playing any games with it officially?
i'm not impressed and my first impressions were an immediate memory of a game from multiple generations ago... it's as if they didn't try as hard on the base and just relied on DLSS 5 NR to come to parity with the last
You're just having the ray tracing discussion again all over with yourself
Many graphics settings are more demanding when first released than those that aren't, again harken back to anti-aliasing etc
It has to be released at some point and some time to get out into the wild and in the hands of developers + users/gamers to then advance from there on - welcome to that time
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ray tracing itself hasn't impressed either, still yet to see anyone proclaiming it's this absolute mind blowing experience
i remember a mind blowing experience for the first time and it didn't require generations to mature..
FF7. that game blew me away and a lot of other people at the same time. Ray Tracing, DLSS 5, none of those are doing that, and especially if you're saying it'll be 3-4 hardware generations until it's baked and "mature".. certainly nothing spectacular with this half hearted implementation of Ray Tracing that we got in the end
i remember that Ray Tracing before RTX being demonstrated and the real deal demos were something to look forward to that we never got through NVIDIA, that's for sure. it's like a very small and minor addition or subtle nuance and reflection in water or something hardly noticeable and very expensive requiring the previous DLSS 4.5 and below
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IMO, there is some sort of ego/hubris/"private club" mentality in the industry. and its weird. It seems like many of these developers refuse to scout for the correct talent. Or contract someone to come in and teach their whole team how to do it better.
Recently, one person made a mod for Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth, which greatly improves shadow quality, adds a lot more shadows, and rebalances the dynamic range of the lighting and colors, adds new water effects......etc. And the performance cost is pretty low. Like less than 10 frames, on many GPUs.
Its such a large and easy to see overall improvement, its practically a "remaster".
He made these changes as a mod, in his free time, over about two months.
And this is like the hundredth time we have seen this sort of thing. Game modders fixing/improving games, in a short amount of free time. Without official development tools for these games or access to the source code. Imagine the quality and performance we could be getting from games, if developers and publishers were humble enough to hire these kinds of people.
People whom they apparently think of as "outsiders"?
Maybe someday. Currently, its one of the easiest ways for an average gamer to fully realize the max wattage of their GPU.
Its corporate obfuscation.
By calling everything "DLSS", they can insist that by turning on DLSS, you get MORE framerate.
They are lying to your face. But, you have to REALLY KNOW what you are talking about, to be able to pick it apart.
We know, because we are [H]ard. But, they aren't necessarily trying to misdirect people like us.
And yet your not liking it still hasn't stopped it
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it doesn't matter about that, it's all about AI for NVIDIA and not gaming (for years now), and even before that nvidia was saying they're a software company anyhow
have you been trying it first hand yourself? you love it or just arm chair quarterback here?
So you're complaining just to complain?
Buy me NBA 2k27 and I'll try it, too lazy to install mods
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you haven't even experienced it? LolSo you're complaining just to complain?
Buy me NBA 2k27 and I'll try it, too lazy to install mods
you're praising something you haven't even used?
it's far from mind blowing, an official first hand experience
it's not enhancing my experience of the gameplay because i'm more interested in the gameplay and playing the game
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I've read a lot of impressions from people using the mods at reasonable levels that it's awesome. The screenshots I've seen of, for example, star wars outlaws with it, are definitely impressive.
I'm not so sure a fast paced action game that's the first one to officially have support (NBA 2k27) is the best game to judge it on, especially since you've been pretty prejudiced against it from before it was even available, as well as even raytracing which is another big tech.
If you don't like it turn it off. Complaining people like higher quality graphics isn't going to stop progress, but you don't have to use it.
yes, doing this in sram Groq style would be both faster and way cheaper energy wise, but that those different statement....
Would it cost less than just 100 more watt to do it by making a TSMC 4N gpu big enough to be able to achieve this rendering without this tech ?
k
simply telling you, as with ray tracing, your complaining and not liking it won't stop it - learn to turn it off or get used to it - either or, dealer's choice
M76
[H]F Junkie
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I think the mistake most make is demonstrating it on people instead of environments. It really makes otherwise plastic dated looking environments look more realistic.
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i have star wars outlaws
honestly i don't like all this third party commentary and prefer to hear legit experienced opinions
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Technology moves on. Get on the train or not is up to you.
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I have asked myself this for a LONG LONG time. It is very unfortunate.
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I am not sure what you mean here versus what I am saying ? (did i say mind blowing), just said it would cost more silicon to do it by other ways (not that it would be worth it to do it, there a reason they do not)
It's because things like diversity and 'representation' and ideology are more cherished than merit/skill/results
Edit: Or, to be fair, it's also sometimes cheap (main point) immigrant labor is favored instead over merit/skill/results