DLSS 5 - Generative AI

Dont forget if you use optiscaler you can lower the DLSS 5 output resolution down to 75% at barely any quality loss.
 
The Official Arrival of DLSS 5

GeForce Game Ready Driver 616.64 | Windows 11​


Release Highlights

Game Ready for NBA 2K27
This new Game Ready Driver provides the best gaming experience for NBA 2K27 featuring DLSS 5 3D-Guided Neural Rendering as well as the latest new games supporting DLSS and RTX technologies including Onimusha: Way of the Sword.

Fixed Gaming Bugs
  • N/A
Fixed General Bugs
  • N/A
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforc...d-neural-rendering-geforce-game-ready-driver/

1788535603979.png


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https://www.3dmark.com/compare/pr/4013574/pr/4006214

1788535544337.png
 
erek said:
The Official Arrival of DLSS 5

GeForce Game Ready Driver 616.64 | Windows 11​


Release Highlights

Game Ready for NBA 2K27
This new Game Ready Driver provides the best gaming experience for NBA 2K27 featuring DLSS 5 3D-Guided Neural Rendering as well as the latest new games supporting DLSS and RTX technologies including Onimusha: Way of the Sword.

Fixed Gaming Bugs
  • N/A
Fixed General Bugs
  • N/A
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforc...d-neural-rendering-geforce-game-ready-driver/

View attachment 823785

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https://www.3dmark.com/compare/pr/4013574/pr/4006214

View attachment 823784
Click to expand...
https://hardforum.com/threads/nvidia-driver-616-64-september-4th-2026-dlss-5-0.2049230/
 
it doesn't seem that great ? i'm playing now and immediately remember Fight Night back in the day and feel that even with rasterization you could achieve these results ... years ago

Fight Night
(ancient game, mind you, absolutely ancient and multiple generations behind now)
1788536778914.png
1788536788223.png


NBA 2K

1788536815190.png
 
rinaldo00 said:
The reply will be, yes, but with a longer and more expensive development cycle.
Click to expand...
why? they have Generative AI to speed up the development cycle now

bet it closes the gap on the backend for rasterization if you apply the technology
 
Looking at Fight Night compared to NBA 2K below.. i just feel rasterization potential is far from over.. and Fight Night is many generations obsolete 2-3 or is it even more ?? imagine Fight Night even at 4K without any other changes


NBA 2K


1788538577450.png
 
erek said:
feel that even with rasterization you could achieve these results ... years ago
Click to expand...
There is no limit to the quality of pixels on screen a video game can do, same for the quality of a painting using MSpaint versus using a raytracing tools.

But people spent billions trying to do the best they could all those years and could not make it at acceptable performance, it is compute wise cheaper to make educated guess than calculate usually, this will be really hard to beat per watts.

Fight night had only 2 main characther, with very limited motion, full pre-made and constant stadium lighting and rigid camera angle, did look good but that was a really static situation.
 
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LukeTbk said:
There is no limit to the quality of pixels on screen a video game can do, same for the quality of a painting using MSpaint versus using a raytracing tools.

But people spent billions trying to do the best they could all those years, it is compute wise cheaper to make educated guess than calculate usually, this will be really hard to beat per watts.
Click to expand...
doesn't seem cheaper at all in terms of compute, seems DLSS have changed from enabling more with less on this DLSS 5 given the big performance hit

monetarily i can't agree, they can use gen ai on the backend rasterization just as quickly and cheaply but unlocking good performance
 
erek said:
doesn't seem cheaper at all in terms of compute,
Click to expand...
How so ? how much more compute would have been needed to make that image quality without using that cheap trick ?

This is running virtually all on the Tensor cores and they are what percentage of a GPU ?

My guess soon they will have an NVFP4 version of this and with other tricks will cut the cost by nearly half, 6th gen tensor core and fast evolving better main model, we will rapidly see having better performance versus boosting pathtracing so much to achieve to match its light quality (imo it is already clearly the case today).
 
erek said:
why? they have Generative AI to speed up the development cycle now

bet it closes the gap on the backend for rasterization if you apply the technology
Click to expand...
The non AI people would certainly reject that. AI is such a charged issue that Steam requires ANY AI involvement be listed on the store page and I have seen threads in those games demanding boycotts even for the smallest use of AI.
 
LukeTbk said:
How so ? how much more compute would have been needed to make that image quality without using that cheap trick ?

This is running virtually all on the Tensor cores and they are what percentage of a GPU ?

My guess soon they will have an NVFP4 version of this and with other tricks will cut the cost by nearly half, 6th gen tensor core and fast evolving better main model, we will rapidly see having better performance versus boosting pathtracing so much to achieve to match its light quality (imo it is already clearly the case today).
Click to expand...
the fps drop is significant, how's that considered cheap?

it's now the opposite of the original intent, if anything "DLSS 5 / NR" ought to be a different marketing term than DLSS

1788540127083.png
 
erek said:
the fps drop is significant, how's that considered cheap?

it's now the opposite of the original intent, if anything "DLSS 5 / NR" ought to be a different marketing term than DLSS

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Click to expand...
MavericK said:
Yikes.
Click to expand...
LukeTbk said:
How so ? how much more compute would have been needed to make that image quality without using that cheap trick ?

This is running virtually all on the Tensor cores and they are what percentage of a GPU ?

My guess soon they will have an NVFP4 version of this and with other tricks will cut the cost by nearly half, 6th gen tensor core and fast evolving better main model, we will rapidly see having better performance versus boosting pathtracing so much to achieve to match its light quality (imo it is already clearly the case today).
Click to expand...
LukeTbk

they [HWU] feel the feature is only good for screen pictures not actually playing the games

1788540982790.png
 
erek said:
the fps drop is significant, how's that considered cheap?
Click to expand...
versus alternative way to achieve that level of quality (of course ?)

How much cheap it is on the memory side is more obvious already (as it is an extreme way to compress information), only ~160-200MB of vram, would the inference for it compute budget was equal to the raster+RT one, would already be obvious that it is not a costly way to achieve this.

Boost the amount of rays and bounce pathtracing use to achieve DLSS 5.0 and it will not run faster (that what they would be doing instead if that was the case), same for using material and shaders precision level for the material quality.
 
LukeTbk said:
versus alternative way to achieve that level of quality (of course ?)

How much cheap it is on the memory side is more obvious already (as it is an extreme way to compress information), only ~160-200MB of vram, would the inference for it compute budget was equal to the raster+RT one, would already be obvious that it is not a costly way to achieve this.

Boost the amount of rays and bounce pathtracing use to achieve DLSS 5.0 and it will not run faster (that what they would be doing instead if that was the case), same for using material and shaders precision level for the material quality.
Click to expand...
in practice right now.. i am literally playing NBA 2K27 and it's not even close to mind blowing regardless of what you're saying..

simply the experience isn't worth it.. first hand

are you playing any games with it officially?

i'm not impressed and my first impressions were an immediate memory of a game from multiple generations ago... it's as if they didn't try as hard on the base and just relied on DLSS 5 NR to come to parity with the last
 
erek said:
in practice right now.. i am literally playing NBA 2K27 and it's not even close to mind blowing regardless of what you're saying..

simply the experience isn't worth it.. first hand

are you playing any games with it officially?

i'm not impressed and my first impressions were an immediate memory of a game from multiple generations ago... it's as if they didn't try as hard on the base and just relied on DLSS 5 NR to come to parity with the last
Click to expand...

You're just having the ray tracing discussion again all over with yourself

Many graphics settings are more demanding when first released than those that aren't, again harken back to anti-aliasing etc

It has to be released at some point and some time to get out into the wild and in the hands of developers + users/gamers to then advance from there on - welcome to that time
 
kram182 said:
You're just having the ray tracing discussion again all over with yourself

Many graphics settings are more demanding when first released than those that aren't, again harken back to anti-aliasing etc

It has to be released at some point and some time to get out into the wild and in the hands of developers + users/gamers to then advance from there on - welcome to that time
Click to expand...
ray tracing itself hasn't impressed either, still yet to see anyone proclaiming it's this absolute mind blowing experience

i remember a mind blowing experience for the first time and it didn't require generations to mature..

FF7. that game blew me away and a lot of other people at the same time. Ray Tracing, DLSS 5, none of those are doing that, and especially if you're saying it'll be 3-4 hardware generations until it's baked and "mature".. certainly nothing spectacular with this half hearted implementation of Ray Tracing that we got in the end

i remember that Ray Tracing before RTX being demonstrated and the real deal demos were something to look forward to that we never got through NVIDIA, that's for sure. it's like a very small and minor addition or subtle nuance and reflection in water or something hardly noticeable and very expensive requiring the previous DLSS 4.5 and below
 
LukeTbk said:
There is no limit to the quality of pixels on screen a video game can do, same for the quality of a painting using MSpaint versus using a raytracing tools.

But people spent billions trying to do the best they could all those years
Click to expand...
rinaldo00 said:
The reply will be, yes, but with a longer and more expensive development cycle.
Click to expand...
IMO, there is some sort of ego/hubris/"private club" mentality in the industry. and its weird. It seems like many of these developers refuse to scout for the correct talent. Or contract someone to come in and teach their whole team how to do it better.

Recently, one person made a mod for Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth, which greatly improves shadow quality, adds a lot more shadows, and rebalances the dynamic range of the lighting and colors, adds new water effects......etc. And the performance cost is pretty low. Like less than 10 frames, on many GPUs.
Its such a large and easy to see overall improvement, its practically a "remaster".

He made these changes as a mod, in his free time, over about two months.

And this is like the hundredth time we have seen this sort of thing. Game modders fixing/improving games, in a short amount of free time. Without official development tools for these games or access to the source code. Imagine the quality and performance we could be getting from games, if developers and publishers were humble enough to hire these kinds of people.
People whom they apparently think of as "outsiders"?

LukeTbk said:
this will be really hard to beat per watts.
Click to expand...

Maybe someday. Currently, its one of the easiest ways for an average gamer to fully realize the max wattage of their GPU.

erek said:
the fps drop is significant, how's that considered cheap?

it's now the opposite of the original intent, if anything "DLSS 5 / NR" ought to be a different marketing term than DLSS

View attachment 823801
Click to expand...
Its corporate obfuscation.
By calling everything "DLSS", they can insist that by turning on DLSS, you get MORE framerate.

They are lying to your face. But, you have to REALLY KNOW what you are talking about, to be able to pick it apart.

We know, because we are [H]ard. But, they aren't necessarily trying to misdirect people like us.

1788542564768.png
 
erek said:
ray tracing itself hasn't impressed either, still yet to see anyone proclaiming it's this absolute mind blowing experience

i remember a mind blowing experience for the first time and it didn't require generations to mature..

FF7. that game blew me away and a lot of other people at the same time. Ray Tracing, DLSS 5, none of those are doing that, and especially if you're saying it'll be 3-4 hardware generations until it's baked and "mature".. certainly nothing spectacular with this half hearted implementation of Ray Tracing that we got in the end

i remember that Ray Tracing before RTX being demonstrated and the real deal demos were something to look forward to that we never got through NVIDIA, that's for sure. it's like a very small and minor addition or subtle nuance and reflection in water or something hardly noticeable and very expensive requiring the previous DLSS 4.5 and below
Click to expand...

And yet your not liking it still hasn't stopped it
 
kram182 said:
And yet your not liking it still hasn't stopped it
Click to expand...
it doesn't matter about that, it's all about AI for NVIDIA and not gaming (for years now), and even before that nvidia was saying they're a software company anyhow

have you been trying it first hand yourself? you love it or just arm chair quarterback here?
 
erek said:
it doesn't matter about that, it's all about AI for NVIDIA and not gaming (for years now), and even before that nvidia was saying they're a software company anyhow

have you been trying it first hand yourself? you love it or just arm chair quarterback here?
Click to expand...

So you're complaining just to complain?

Buy me NBA 2k27 and I'll try it, too lazy to install mods 😁
 
kram182 said:
So you're complaining just to complain?

Buy me NBA 2k27 and I'll try it, too lazy to install mods 😁
Click to expand...
you haven't even experienced it? Lol

you're praising something you haven't even used?

it's far from mind blowing, an official first hand experience

it's not enhancing my experience of the gameplay because i'm more interested in the gameplay and playing the game
 
erek said:
you haven't even experienced it? Lol

you're praising something you haven't even used?

it's far from mind blowing, an official first hand experience

it's not enhancing my experience of the gameplay because i'm more interested in the gameplay and playing the game
Click to expand...
I've read a lot of impressions from people using the mods at reasonable levels that it's awesome. The screenshots I've seen of, for example, star wars outlaws with it, are definitely impressive.

I'm not so sure a fast paced action game that's the first one to officially have support (NBA 2k27) is the best game to judge it on, especially since you've been pretty prejudiced against it from before it was even available, as well as even raytracing which is another big tech.

If you don't like it turn it off. Complaining people like higher quality graphics isn't going to stop progress, but you don't have to use it.
 
chameleoneel said:
Maybe someday. Currently, its one of the easiest ways for an average gamer to fully realize the max wattage of their GPU.
Click to expand...
yes, doing this in sram Groq style would be both faster and way cheaper energy wise, but that those different statement....

Would it cost less than just 100 more watt to do it by making a TSMC 4N gpu big enough to be able to achieve this rendering without this tech ?
 
erek said:
you haven't even experienced it? Lol

you're praising something you haven't even used?

it's far from mind blowing, an official first hand experience

it's not enhancing my experience of the gameplay because i'm more interested in the gameplay and playing the game
Click to expand...

k

simply telling you, as with ray tracing, your complaining and not liking it won't stop it - learn to turn it off or get used to it - either or, dealer's choice
 
zehoo said:
I’m happy for you guys that love it. It just looks like vivid mode on the TV to me with some extra sauce. It also makes things look off and out of place and pasted into the scene. I’m sure it’ll improve and I’ll end up using it in the future.
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I think the mistake most make is demonstrating it on people instead of environments. It really makes otherwise plastic dated looking environments look more realistic.
 
GoldenTiger said:
I've read a lot of impressions from people using the mods at reasonable levels that it's awesome. The screenshots I've seen of, for example, star wars outlaws with it, are definitely impressive.
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i have star wars outlaws

honestly i don't like all this third party commentary and prefer to hear legit experienced opinions
 
chameleoneel said:
IMO, there is some sort of ego/hubris/"private club" mentality in the industry. and its weird. It seems like many of these developers refuse to scout for the correct talent. Or contract someone to come in and teach their whole team how to do it better.

Recently, one person made a mod for Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth, which greatly improves shadow quality, adds a lot more shadows, and rebalances the dynamic range of the lighting and colors, adds new water effects......etc. And the performance cost is pretty low. Like less than 10 frames, on many GPUs.
Its such a large and easy to see overall improvement, its practically a "remaster".

He made these changes as a mod, in his free time, over about two months.

And this is like the hundredth time we have seen this sort of thing. Game modders fixing/improving games, in a short amount of free time. Without official development tools for these games or access to the source code. Imagine the quality and performance we could be getting from games, if developers and publishers were humble enough to hire these kinds of people.
People whom they apparently think of as "outsiders"?
Click to expand...
I have asked myself this for a LONG LONG time. It is very unfortunate.
 
erek said:
in practice right now.. i am literally playing NBA 2K27 and it's not even close to mind blowing regardless of what you're saying..
Click to expand...
I am not sure what you mean here versus what I am saying ? (did i say mind blowing), just said it would cost more silicon to do it by other ways (not that it would be worth it to do it, there a reason they do not)
 
rinaldo00 said:
I have asked myself this for a LONG LONG time. It is very unfortunate.
Click to expand...

It's because things like diversity and 'representation' and ideology are more cherished than merit/skill/results

Edit: Or, to be fair, it's also sometimes cheap (main point) immigrant labor is favored instead over merit/skill/results
 
ahahah, i just noticed some stuff too

the mouths weren't even moving during the dialogue with this DLSS 5

and also the sweat isn't moving or anything, everything feels so static... you really have to play it to see

like i just watched a "cinematic" with this DLSS 5 and they're speaking, there's audio, but the lips didn't move

the sweat isn't moving or anything

1788546809425.png
 
kram182 said:
It's because things like diversity and representation and ideology are more cherished than merit/skill/results
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there is also that the best goes in the high end studio the rockstar, call of duty, battlefield team are really good, doing remake work on Unreal 4 can end up geting more bottom of the pole people interested in that.

I am not sure diversity-representation and ideology play a big role for the shaders/core engine parts, they will push this more in less technical heavy part of the game studio usually.
 
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