• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

DLSS 5 - Generative AI

LukeTbk said:
This is a generative synthesis step rather than a transformative filter, it "recognize" that this is skin and next to it its metal and having seen what it look like in extreme high quality, having access to depth map and other input hallucinate what it should look like.
Click to expand...
Yes, it's not just a filter, but it's easy to explain.

From what I know, DLSS5 can’t work without DLAA and/or DLSS being enabled, since it uses them as the basis for its processing. There’s probably information that can be easily found and changed. Because, as we know, artificial intelligence doesn’t think—it uses data and works with it.
 
M76 said:
Trying to make it more acceptable?
Click to expand...

I don't personally understand this viewpoint. What makes it not acceptable by default? If it looks good and runs well, who cares if it uses AI? No one HAS to use it. The only problem I have with DLSS in general is that Nvidia hardware is way too expensive, and I'm not interested in paying an often 50% price premium to have access to it.
 
HockeyJon said:
I don't personally understand this viewpoint. What makes it not acceptable by default? If it looks good and runs well, who cares if it uses AI? No one HAS to use it. The only problem I have with DLSS in general is that Nvidia hardware is way too expensive, and I'm not interested in paying an often 50% price premium to have access to it.
Click to expand...
It's not specifically DLSS5 that is unacceptable but generative AI art in general to most who are against it. If it catches on there will be a HW agnostic alternative to it, like FSR, I'm not worried about that. In fact I hope there will be open source or open weight alternatives to it, so it opens up a new avenue for modding games.
 
M76 said:
It's not specifically DLSS5 that is unacceptable but generative AI art in general to most who are against it. If it catches on there will be a HW agnostic alternative to it, like FSR, I'm not worried about that. In fact I hope there will be open source or open weight alternatives to it, so it opens up a new avenue for modding games.
Click to expand...
You are the far to vocal small minority.
I am enjoying it 100% and this is much better than "native":
1788209775120.png
 
kram182 said:
If there was data then there'd be no gap, there can only be a gap by definition with an absence of data/no data - that new/'non-existing before' data then 'fills' - whether missing data in-between frames or more/missing pixels/missing pixel data.

It's generative.
Click to expand...
You are still missing the difference. I explained it best I could, but I can't make you understand it.
kram182 said:
It's been shown plenty of times, plenty of places - cope - if it's """perceived"""" to look better, then it *looks* better.
Click to expand...
Anyone who says DLSS even on quality mode looks better than native should be declared legally blind. Just turn off DLSS for a moment in say Cyberpunk 2077 or any high end game, even if it runs like ass, the clarity of the picture in native will blow your mind and make you wish DLSS was never a thing. But if you still think DLSS looks better, then I'm sorry you might be one of the blind ones. Don't just look at youtube comparisons either because video compression will mask the difference.
kram182 said:
You're the one with an admitted and apparent AI-hating agenda here, I'm just explaining things. You can never turn DLSS 5 on for all I give a damn.
Click to expand...
Why are you so pathologically defensive about it?. I'm not even against it at all. I just call what quacks a duck, and what doesn't quack...Not a duck.
 
AVATARAT said:
There has been a war against gaming studios for several years now, aimed at bringing them under control, and so far, they’re losing it.
Nvidia is part of this and serves as a tool for that purpose.
But don’t worry, everything’s fine—be happy.
Click to expand...
So tinfoil nuttery that has nothing to do with DLSS. Got it.
 
M76 said:
You are still missing the difference. I explained it best I could, but I can't make you understand it.

Anyone who says DLSS even on quality mode looks better than native should be declared legally blind. Just turn off DLSS for a moment in say Cyberpunk 2077 or any high end game, even if it runs like ass, the clarity of the picture in native will blow your mind and make you wish DLSS was never a thing. But if you still think DLSS looks better, then I'm sorry you might be one of the blind ones. Don't just look at youtube comparisons either because video compression will mask the difference.

Why are you so pathologically defensive about it?. I'm not even against it at all. I just call what quacks a duck, and what doesn't quack...Not a duck.
Click to expand...


It's very apparent from all your replies you're just emotionally and ideologically against it, and thus feel the need and desire to slander it :rolleyes:
 
M76 said:
Anyone who says DLSS even on quality mode looks better than native should be declared legally blind. Just turn off DLSS for a moment in say Cyberpunk 2077 or any high end game, even if it runs like ass, the clarity of the picture in native will blow your mind and make you wish DLSS was never a thing. But if you still think DLSS looks better, then I'm sorry you might be one of the blind ones. Don't just look at youtube comparisons either because video compression will mask the difference.
Click to expand...

LOL what?

1788214047756.png


Sorry but if you think the native image looks better then you are the one legally blind. Yes, earlier versions of DLSS had more artifacts in motion compared to 4.5, but let's not pretend that TAA also doesn't have motion artifacts and doesn't blur and smear the image like crazy. If you don't believe me then go play Days Gone and look at the ghosting behind the motorcycle wheel as you drive around. 4K Native with zero AA looks even worst than this because it would have an insane amount of jaggies and shimmering. 4K + DLAA is the only combination that looks better than 4K DLSS so if that's what you're trying to say then sure I agree with you, but any other combination of 4K native looks worst compared to 4K DLSS 4.5 whether it's 4K + no AA, 4K + FXAA, 4K +TAA .
 
M76 said:
It's not specifically DLSS5 that is unacceptable but generative AI art in general to most who are against it. If it catches on there will be a HW agnostic alternative to it, like FSR, I'm not worried about that. In fact I hope there will be open source or open weight alternatives to it, so it opens up a new avenue for modding games.
Click to expand...

I don't understand the opposition though. I'll take AI art over most of the crap I see in a modern art museum to be honest. Art is completely subjective and undefined.

FSR's also not exactly hardware agnostic anymore either. FSR originally was open source, but I don't believe FSR4/Redstone is intended to be. Even still, Nvidia has DLSS and Intel has XeSS, so neither will optimize for FSR.

In any case, this is just another technique programmers can use to represent things on screen. All of this is generated, and all of it is at the control of what the company producing it choose to use in terms of tools to create it. I'm not going to reflexively hate it just because it's AI. I actually think a lot of the DLSS 5 screenshots look really good, but I'm going to reserve judgement until I actually use it.
 
kram182 said:
except FSR 4 shows that might not be the case, even for AMD
Click to expand...

FSR 4 isn’t officially open source as far as I’m aware, unlike previous versions of FSR. It’s a moot point anyway because all major GPU manufacturers are doing their own thing now. Once Intel launched XeSS, there was little benefit to an open source FSR, and Nvidia was always going to do their own thing anyway.
 
Sycraft said:
So tinfoil nuttery that has nothing to do with DLSS. Got it.
Click to expand...
My tinfoil is better than your tinfoil, and yes, DLSS is connected as well as UE5, but I prefer to stop here.

And, look, I'm not against DLSS 5—it's an interesting technology with a lot of potential. Especially if they manage to combine light direction from a single source with the shading effects they're currently using, simply because it doesn't work in the current version ;)
 
MistaSparkul said:
LOL what?

View attachment 823122

Sorry but if you think the native image looks better then you are the one legally blind. Yes, earlier versions of DLSS had more artifacts in motion compared to 4.5, but let's not pretend that TAA also doesn't have motion artifacts and doesn't blur and smear the image like crazy. If you don't believe me then go play Days Gone and look at the ghosting behind the motorcycle wheel as you drive around. 4K Native with zero AA looks even worst than this because it would have an insane amount of jaggies and shimmering. 4K + DLAA is the only combination that looks better than 4K DLSS so if that's what you're trying to say then sure I agree with you, but any other combination of 4K native looks worst compared to 4K DLSS 4.5 whether it's 4K + no AA, 4K + FXAA, 4K +TAA .
Click to expand...
Congratulations you found out that TAA implementation in games suck ass. It doesn't mean DLSS looks better than native. Compare it to 4K native + DLAA. or SMAA or MSAA. If you are going to compare it to 4K without AA then all you are judging is that NOAA is worse than any AA. Which is exactly the pitfall I said not to fall into.
 
M76 said:
Congratulations you found out that TAA implementation in games suck ass. It doesn't mean DLSS looks better than native. Compare it to 4K native + DLAA. or SMAA or MSAA. If you are going to compare it to 4K without AA then all you are judging is that NOAA is worse than any AA. Which is exactly the pitfall I said not to fall into.
Click to expand...

4K native + DLAA
Click to expand...

That's still AI based/enhanced just like DLSS and from the same technology/source/root as DLSS, and not 'native'

or SMAA or MSAA
Click to expand...

Here:

https://x.com/GeForce_JacobF/status/2044807518623543486

1788376975432.png



https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/1q7tdd8/dlss_40_vs_dlss_45_vs_msaa_4x_performance_and/

1788377486255.png


1788377499831.png


1788377515531.png


1788377532118.png
 
Last edited:
kram182 said:
That's still AI based/enhanced just like DLSS and not 'native'
Click to expand...
It's rendered at native resolution.

I never denied that DLAA looks better than SMAA or MSAA, which are known to be bad at transparency.

The point was always about native 4k rendering looking better than upscaled with DLSS.
 
M76 said:
Congratulations you found out that TAA implementation in games suck ass. It doesn't mean DLSS looks better than native. Compare it to 4K native + DLAA. or SMAA or MSAA. If you are going to compare it to 4K without AA then all you are judging is that NOAA is worse than any AA. Which is exactly the pitfall I said not to fall into.
Click to expand...

I literally said I agree Native + DLAA looks better. I mean no shit it does? MSAA is pretty much dead in 2026 and as for SMAA it looks more clear at times but still has a big problem with jaggies/shimmering.
 
People can be arguing 2 different things, objectively, 100% DLSS often has more information and more correct than Native without it in the scene, does not mean it end looking better (which is subjective and not something people can argue with each others), but for most people specially at the same target frame rate, DLSS will look better once the output resolution is high enough.
 
LukeTbk said:
does not mean it end looking better (which is subjective and not something people can argue with each others)
Click to expand...

For colors/brightness/etc - sure subjectivity (arguably) comes onto play - for things like aliasing though these are objective measures and definitive rendering artifacts - more aliasing is worse and less correct
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: M76
like this

#StopTheSlop​

​

“RPCS3 Team Won't Touch Leaked DLSS 5, Calls the Output "Slop"​

by DrUsmanSaleem Yesterday, 19:41 Discuss (45 Comments)
The RPCS3 developers have made their stance on DLSS 5 pretty clear after fans started poking around with a leaked version of the tool on the PS3 emulator. Responding to questions about whether official support was coming, the team posted on X that some users are already testing a leaked DLSS 5 DLL on the renderer, but that they've seen what it produces and want no part of it. Modders are already testing DLSS 5 on emulators such as PCSX2, but the RPCS3 team apparently wants its emulator to avoid it completely. Here's what they posted:
"Whilst the gaming industry pushes more upscalers and frame generation to hallucinate games and hide their lack of optimization, we do not ship any of that slop."”
Click to expand...
 
kram182 said:
Worse at (anti) aliasing as well, compared to upscaled DLSS - can be seen in the images above
Click to expand...
Yes, but the remaining aliasing artifacts bother me far less, than the overall haziness and loss of fine detail caused by DLSS even on Quality preset.

Remember when UE introduced detail textures? That was a jaw dropping moment for me. I experience DLSS as the reverse of that, like suddenly someone took away details.
erek said:
#StopTheSlop
Click to expand...
How about just letting people choose for themselves whether they want to use it or not? This self righteous attitude is what got the gaming industry into trouble to start with. Not doing what the customers ask for, but trying to dictate whet we are allowed to have.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top