Diablo 3 Discussion Thread

Breath_of_the_Dying said:
There is nothing really stopping you from releveling a class and sticking to a different build, by lvl 10 there are many ways to play a class

Edit: you can also beat inferno without touching either ah. There are trade channels and trading forums all over the interwebs.
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Oh my buddies just trade me gear for what they get.
 
dremic said:
you can argue semantics all day if you want. Diablo 2 is flawed especially in customization. you arent creative in diablo 2 and neither is anybody else except the 5 people that made the 5 guides that everybody followed.
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Apparently so can you; good thing this is a forum.

Of course, by your logic customization in every game is flawed as soon as someone writes a guide for something. Then again I was never trying to argue that D2 customization was perfect, only that it wasn't an illusion.

The main complaint about the D2 style of customization seems to be that players were punished for not understanding everything right away, but - as I mentioned with the PoE comment - there were very valid alternatives to just completely scrapping the wildly successful formula from D2 and hoping for the best. If this game was called "Elite Treasure Hunting" then sure, have at it, but this was a sequel. It's like the devs approached D3 as though D2 had ruined the franchise and they were forced to strip it all down and start over.
 
Aix. said:
The main complaint about the D2 style of customization seems to be that players were punished for not understanding everything right away, but - as I mentioned with the PoE comment - there were very valid alternatives to just completely scrapping the wildly successful formula from D2 and hoping for the best. If this game was called "Elite Treasure Hunting" then sure, have at it, but this was a sequel. It's like the devs approached D3 as though D2 had ruined the franchise and they were forced to strip it all down and start over.
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All they had to do in D3 to get rid of that complaint from D2 was have a respec option that was somewhat expensive gold-wise. Instead they scrapped basically the entire stat system.
 
Breath_of_the_Dying said:
There is nothing really stopping you from releveling a class and sticking to a different build, by lvl 10 there are many ways to play a class
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You could, but what's the point? The game isn't designed around the player investing in a set of skills, all the classes can use the same items other than a select few class-specific items, and all the items can roll the same mods. None of the same incentives for a "themed build" are there anymore.

In fact, enrage timers are the game's way of telling you to switch skills (or hit the AH); they serve no other purpose.
 
dremic said:
you can argue semantics all day if you want. Diablo 2 is flawed especially in customization. you arent creative in diablo 2 and neither is anybody else except the 5 people that made the 5 guides that everybody followed.
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I don't know what you are smoking my Enchantress build in D2 was a 1 of a kind viable build. Sure I wasn't able to beat UBERs with it but everything else was toast and I had a blast building her. I also had at least 5 other builds that weren't the standard build. All build are identical in D3 so once you get to level 60 in 1 class you have no reason to progress though the game in that class again. Which Means I only have 1 more progression left....the witch doctor....which I'll pass on.

D2's biggest flaw was its chance to hit. I mean what the fuck I have a 30% chance of hitting well bitch socks that sucks.
 
stevedave said:
I don't know what you are smoking my Enchantress build in D2 was a 1 of a kind viable build. Sure I wasn't able to beat UBERs with it but everything else was toast and I had a blast building her. I also had at least 5 other builds that weren't the standard build. All build are identical in D3 so once you get to level 60 in 1 class you have no reason to progress though the game in that class again. Which Means I only have 1 more progression left....the witch doctor....which I'll pass on.

D2's biggest flaw was its chance to hit. I mean what the fuck I have a 30% chance of hitting well bitch socks that sucks.
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If you want to talk non-end game viability, there each class in d3 has half a trillion combinations that you could breeze through hell with
 
Aix. said:
Apparently so can you; good thing this is a forum.

Of course, by your logic customization in every game is flawed as soon as someone writes a guide for something. Then again I was never trying to argue that D2 customization was perfect, only that it wasn't an illusion.

The main complaint about the D2 style of customization seems to be that players were punished for not understanding everything right away, but - as I mentioned with the PoE comment - there were very valid alternatives to just completely scrapping the wildly successful formula from D2 and hoping for the best. If this game was called "Elite Treasure Hunting" then sure, have at it, but this was a sequel. It's like the devs approached D3 as though D2 had ruined the franchise and they were forced to strip it all down and start over.
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you are misunderstanding my words.

the point is diablo 2 has some customization and creativity but its pretty limited due to the fact that there were a few core builds that guaranteed and were necessary to be the most successful. The guides arent what kill creativity.. its the lack of success without them that kill it.

diablo 3 has lots of different viable skill builds that are perfectly viable.. there are A LOT of different successful builds and overall the level of creativity and uniqueness between people can be vast in comparison to diablo 2. stat stacking and skill trees are flawed especially in diablo 2.. and there has yet to be a game that has implemented them without having this flaw.
 
Using the profits generated from the cut received from each RMAH transaction to make new content (even if just extra side-quests and events) would be pretty awesome.
 
dremic said:
the point is diablo 2 has some customization and creativity but its pretty limited due to the fact that there were a few core builds that guaranteed and were necessary to be the most successful. The guides arent what kill creativity.. its the lack of success without them that kill it.
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What does "the most successful" have to do with a build being viable? I can list a bunch of powerful builds per class for D2 without even getting into the niche stuff. I understand what you're saying about the guides, and although for full optimization they were recommended, they were certainly not necessary to have success in the game.

dremic said:
diablo 3 has lots of different viable skill builds that are perfectly viable.. there are A LOT of different successful builds and overall the level of creativity and uniqueness between people can be vast in comparison to diablo 2. stat stacking and skill trees are flawed especially in diablo 2.. and there has yet to be a game that has implemented them without having this flaw
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If you want to have the "the most successful" and optimized build in D3, you're probably still going to look it up outside of the game. How many people saw that "double tornado" Barb build and then copied it skill for skill? Yeah, sooo different in D3.

Also, changing the rune on a skill doesn't really count as making a new "build" in the D2 sense of the word.
 
Elios said:
lol there wiz spec is pretty much "the spec" ie the only one that works +/- a few things but the big stuff is there
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Funny, the only similar skill I use on my wiz is Venom Hydra, and was just fine clearing Diablo pre-1.0.3....

Progression act 3 and 4 (did vary, but this was what i used the most)
Prismatic Energy armor
Force Magic Weapon
Sparkflint Familiar
Improved Archon
Split Magic Missile
Venom Hydra
Glass cannon, Temporal Flux, Arcane Dynamo

To beat diablo....
Force Energy Armor
Force Magic Weapon
Fracture Teleport
Venom Hydra
Split Magic Missile
Crystal Shell Diamond skin
Illusionist, Blur and Evoc

I've never thought about a knockback build until I saw that article. Crit, Blizzard/Hydra, Beam I've messed with, but never a knockback build. And your saying this is the "OMG THE ONLY SPEC EVERYONE IN THE WORLD USES, EVERYONE ELSE IS DUMB" spec for wizard?
 
Yeah I've never heard of a knockback build either. Sure he used the same defensive/armor skills as everyone else but the rest of the build is totally different..

Anyways, has anyone else noticed a significant slowdown on the sale of items on the AH? I listed 10 things last night for reasonable prices, nothing has sold..
 
Rizen said:
Yeah I've never heard of a knockback build either. Sure he used the same defensive/armor skills as everyone else but the rest of the build is totally different..

Anyways, has anyone else noticed a significant slowdown on the sale of items on the AH? I listed 10 things last night for reasonable prices, nothing has sold..
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I have noticed.

some examples....

I bought a spear for my monk for 70k about 3 weeks ago which at teh time was a steal for what it was, now i cant GIVE the thing away, i've put it up at 15k twice and nothing.

bought a nice LoH amulet for 600k, couple weeks ago, hasn't sold 4 times now at as low at 200k

stuff that i used to blindly put up at 20k and sell within hours, now isnt selling at 3k



not sure if it's a flooding of the market, or just a slowdown in user gameplay
 
AMD T-type said:
I have noticed.

some examples....

I bought a spear for my monk for 70k about 3 weeks ago which at teh time was a steal for what it was, now i cant GIVE the thing away, i've put it up at 15k twice and nothing.

bought a nice LoH amulet for 600k, couple weeks ago, hasn't sold 4 times now at as low at 200k

stuff that i used to blindly put up at 20k and sell within hours, now isnt selling at 3k



not sure if it's a flooding of the market, or just a slowdown in user gameplay
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Market is being flooded by 1.03 loot boosts and less players. It will equal out in the end.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6079707996

I almost threw up when I read their response to IAS and then their response to Crit. They don't even play the game.
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No, what they do is comb through massive databases of collected numbers from all of us playing, and make changes based on that. I'm not sure why they are hell bent on build diversity. While I get that it's a concern, it seems to be a MAIN concern for them. The nature of multiplayer, class based games is that there are so many people playing that eventually, the best builds will float to the surface. And if you somehow get to the point where there are no best builds, that just means there is a sea of mediocre builds.

This is their work at balancing before PvP. In otherwords, they don't want to balance when people are complaining that Barbs are OP in arena.

That said, my WD is going to SUCK at PvP. No way around it.Not enough DPS, not enough armor, and pets are pointless.
 
What the hell...

Now when I fire up the game it says it was unable to install and I need to contact customer service.

Jesus, you'd think Blizzard would be able to code a game.
 
Breath_of_the_Dying said:
If you want to talk non-end game viability, there each class in d3 has half a trillion combinations that you could breeze through hell with
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I wasn't talking non-end game viability. I was talking about builds I beat Baal with in Hell (the hardest difficulty) which is in fact end game. I said I could beat Ubers which was added in very late in the D2 life cycle and I didn't have time to try and get each character through.

I would equate Changing a ruin word to having a different spell level in diablo 2 or having 1 more attribute in Vitality, which would make the build possibility of D2 above a trillion. So Frozen orb level 19 is a completely different build than Frozen orb level 20.....which it is not. Spectral Blade is 1 ability regardless of which ruin word you give it. So no there is not half a trillion combinations, just people pretending there is.

Spectral blade + Blizzard + Hydra = 1 build regardless what passives or ruin words you use just like Frozen orb + Meteor = 1 build regardless what levels the spells are and how you assigned your attributes.

if switching a skill or ruin words makes the build feel and play like a new build then its a new build.....If it doesn't then its not.

On the whole I'd say D2 and D3 are pretty close in terms of possible builds....but the process of getting the builds are the main difference.........neither better than the other but both definitely different.
 
dremic said:
"On top of that, it introduced a ton of bugs just due to how fast characters were attacking when stacked to its upper limits. "
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I'm not even sure how legitimate that is. My brother's monk hit north of 3.5 attacks / second with no issues.

They could have done a plethora of things to deal with IAS rather than a blanket item nerf. That was the easy way out. Honestly it was the main reason I stopped playing. When it hit, it literally destroyed my weapon and to me, it was basically trivializing and devaluing the effort and time I spent getting that weapon. Honestly if they didn't touch weapons and nerfed everything else, it would have sat better with me.
 
Rdzona said:
Gotta be honest, I don't really know what your getting at. Care to explain yourself or just leave it open ended like you did?
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I'm not sure it even requires explanation.

Can you name a build that everyone was using because of IAS stacking?

Can you name a build that everyone is using because of crit stacking?
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
I'm not sure it even requires explanation.

Can you name a build that everyone was using because of IAS stacking?

Can you name a build that everyone is using because of crit stacking?
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Not all of use are as deep in as others, but for me, the answer to both is no.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6079707996

I almost threw up when I read their response to IAS and then their response to Crit. They don't even play the game.
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This is the part that I dislike:

Aggressive" (No Limit):
  • Arcane Enchanted
  • Desecrator
  • Electrified
  • Fast
  • Fire Chains
  • Frozen
  • Jailer
  • Molten
  • Mortar
  • Plagued
  • Reflects Damage
  • Teleporter
  • Waller

Getting packs that have multiple "aggressive" affixes that basically do the same thing is just frustrating. Waller+Jailer+Frozen+Arcane Enchanted is just brutal, especially in a cave or spot with nowhere to move as it is. Those kinds of scenarios are when I really shake my head at all the cooldowns they implemented into the game.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
I'm not sure it even requires explanation.

Can you name a build that everyone was using because of IAS stacking?

Can you name a build that everyone is using because of crit stacking?
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Well I do disagree with their reasoning, 'build diversity'. That's just stupid, they can't create everything equal well because then simply everything would be equal and you might as well only put in 6 skills in the game for each character (plus passives if you want to throw those in there but I think you get my point)

But honestly you can't disagree that IAS needed to be nerfed. I think you're just being emotional because it hit you and you had a weapon that you paid millions of igg for. That sucks, but thats the way with video games I guess. They are constantly changing and evolving.
 
Rdzona said:
Well I do disagree with their reasoning, 'build diversity'. That's just stupid, they can't create everything equal well because then simply everything would be equal and you might as well only put in 6 skills in the game for each character (plus passives if you want to throw those in there but I think you get my point)

But honestly you can't disagree that IAS needed to be nerfed. I think you're just being emotional because it hit you and you had a weapon that you paid millions of igg for. That sucks, but thats the way with video games I guess. They are constantly changing and evolving.
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i think hes more annoyed by that reasons theyre giving for the nerf.. theyre stupid reasons hahaha

IAS needed a nerf its still a damn good stat esp. for monks at 50% value then what it was
 
Rdzona said:
Well I do disagree with their reasoning, 'build diversity'. That's just stupid, they can't create everything equal well because then simply everything would be equal and you might as well only put in 6 skills in the game for each character (plus passives if you want to throw those in there but I think you get my point)

But honestly you can't disagree that IAS needed to be nerfed. I think you're just being emotional because it hit you and you had a weapon that you paid millions of igg for. That sucks, but thats the way with video games I guess. They are constantly changing and evolving.
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Why did IAS need to be nerfed?
 
Rdzona said:
Well I do disagree with their reasoning, 'build diversity'. That's just stupid, they can't create everything equal well because then simply everything would be equal and you might as well only put in 6 skills in the game for each character (plus passives if you want to throw those in there but I think you get my point)

But honestly you can't disagree that IAS needed to be nerfed. I think you're just being emotional because it hit you and you had a weapon that you paid millions of igg for. That sucks, but thats the way with video games I guess. They are constantly changing and evolving.
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Well I've posted before specifically what about IAS could have been changed if they felt so compelled to nerf it, but all of that required actual item analysis and more work than a blanket nerf, which clearly Blizzard is far too lazy to do. I've basically lost faith in their dev team as competent individuals. If they actually played the game, they'd realize which pieces were problem areas for IAS (hint: weapon was not one of them).

Also, the bottom line was that no one but Blizzard thought IAS warranted a blanket nerf. It was also far more than 50% by the way. It was up to 75% on some pieces. And at this point, the way they handled Inferno, the way they handled the ninja changes, and even the way they designed the skills has demonstrated to me that they really have lost touch with actually playing the game.
 
Rizen said:
Yeah I've never heard of a knockback build either. Sure he used the same defensive/armor skills as everyone else but the rest of the build is totally different..

Anyways, has anyone else noticed a significant slowdown on the sale of items on the AH? I listed 10 things last night for reasonable prices, nothing has sold..
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Yea, and I hate to say it, but it's been nice for casual players like me who haven't been able to buy anything decent. Just yesterday I landed a 2H crossbow with 1050dps and doubled the dex that was on my old one for 4k gold. :D

I have several bids in for upgrades on a few other slots as well that I wasn't even close to a few weeks ago, all under 50k each.

I guess to give some perspective, Ive been farming A1 since I've been stuck ~38k dps (50k with SS). That weapon upgrade broke the 50k stacked mark and I guess I'm gonna just slowly work my way into higher stats.
 
Bonksnp said:
Yea, and I hate to say it, but it's been nice for casual players like me who haven't been able to buy anything decent. Just yesterday I landed a 2H crossbow with 1050dps and doubled the dex that was on my old one for 4k gold. :D

I have several bids in for upgrades on a few other slots as well that I wasn't even close to a few weeks ago, all under 50k each.

I guess to give some perspective, Ive been farming A1 since I've been stuck ~38k dps (50k with SS). That weapon upgrade broke the 50k stacked mark and I guess I'm gonna just slowly work my way into higher stats.
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DH have the hardest time progressing. I would get your self a barb or monk friend cause your dmg is high enough for act 3
 
Bonksnp said:
Yea, and I hate to say it, but it's been nice for casual players like me who haven't been able to buy anything decent. Just yesterday I landed a 2H crossbow with 1050dps and doubled the dex that was on my old one for 4k gold. :D

I have several bids in for upgrades on a few other slots as well that I wasn't even close to a few weeks ago, all under 50k each.

I guess to give some perspective, Ive been farming A1 since I've been stuck ~38k dps (50k with SS). That weapon upgrade broke the 50k stacked mark and I guess I'm gonna just slowly work my way into higher stats.
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Is it just DPS and Dexterity you are building? My experience with inferno is I stopped concentrating on DPS and Dexterity and started incorporating Life on Hit, Resist All and other important stats.
 
Bonksnp said:
Yea, and I hate to say it, but it's been nice for casual players like me who haven't been able to buy anything decent. Just yesterday I landed a 2H crossbow with 1050dps and doubled the dex that was on my old one for 4k gold. :D

I have several bids in for upgrades on a few other slots as well that I wasn't even close to a few weeks ago, all under 50k each.

I guess to give some perspective, Ive been farming A1 since I've been stuck ~38k dps (50k with SS). That weapon upgrade broke the 50k stacked mark and I guess I'm gonna just slowly work my way into higher stats.
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Yeah, just the real high end stuff is the only thing left for me to buy, and those prices haven't come down yet. So if I can't sell anything for decent money I'm gonna have a hard time getting money :[
 
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