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Diablo 3 Discussion Thread
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Scooty Puff Sr.
Limp Gawd
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I may be wrong in this because I haven't used cluster arrow yet but I'm pretty sure that it does 200% in a small aoe then throws out a few bombs that do 100% aoe damage. so it a small area you are doing at least 300% whereas multi-shot is only 165% on each enemy.
Intel_Hydralisk
Supreme [H]ardness
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In practice it's just terrible compared to multishot.
Multishot at 40 hatred was not competitive with Chakram at all since Chakram did 200% at 10 hatred (with double Chakram rune).
Multishot became competitive with the half hatred rune. At 20 hatred it was a nice alternative to Chakram.
Along came Cluster Arrow which in practice is simply a dud at 50 hatred. They seriously overlooked this big time. It is not worth 5 Chakrams that much is clear.
LeninGHOLA
Vladimir Hayt
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Sigh. That's my problem. You don't need an entire act to be a tutorial.
Like most people, I need a game to grab me from the start. I actually don't like tutorials at all. A good instruction manuals and some tool tips is enough.
Intel_Hydralisk
Supreme [H]ardness
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It's a pretty bad left click skill as far as I can tell. I think it can be ok as a numbered skill (using elective mode). For short range AOE.
I suppose from their perspective, similar to what they did with D2, they want to help initiate new players. It's been over ten years since D2 came out - there are *tons* of people that will be playing the series for the first time I can understand their motivation to keep the first act easier.
You could certainly argue that you would prefer this tutorial stuff be done a different way, but regardless I don't think it's a reason to discount the entire game.
good, I'm glad I wasn't missing anything!
Typically if I let a significant number of enemies get close enough to use that, I'm in the shit.
yimingwuzere
Gawd
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StarCraft 2 is nothing compared to this. For the most part D3's gameplay changes are for the better, can't say the same for their RTS though.
Stat points? Tell me how did you pump your stat points in D2: Enough str/dex for items, rest into vit for every char?
Skill points? Would you rather have respecless skills and pump 20+ points into useless spells that are a prerequisite for what you want?
LeninGHOLA
Vladimir Hayt
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I haven't discounted the entire game. I'm just feedbacking what I've experienced.
TheMadHatterXxX
2[H]4U
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As someone who never played this type of game before I kinda am also.
I guess where I'm coming from, Guild Wars 1 being my defacto RPG style game from 2005-2009 and only RPG style game I really liked, I was put off by the lack of customization; the combat is somewhat similar, but in Guild Wars you had 100s of skills and had to create a viable bar of 8 to use from all those along with being able to spec attributes for your character, that added a HUGE amount of customization, even if most people only stuck to certain cookie cutter builds within each class, you still had an option of going off the beaten path and doing your own thing.
Everything just seems so limited in this game. It seems more like a corridor FPS shooter instead of like a sandbox type Crysis, if you can understand the comparison.
It's an 'ok' game still, yes, just not great imo. I like loot yes, but I still like to be creative and have the freedom to do my own thing getting it.
D
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I prefer the more simplistic manner the game has, with the ability/rune choices. I would have preferred more character customization, no doubt.
When I got my pointy wizard-style hat, it was ON.
When I got my pointy wizard-style hat, it was ON.
MisterClean
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As far as game changes go, on the whole I like them. I do miss stat points as far as bring able to instant cast. I hated cool down in titan quest and I hate it here. I miss instantly teleporting through maps or out of danger. I also don't like pot cool down. As a glass cannon I need my pots lol
Retsam
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I dont like all the changes either but, meh, its still fun.
The issue with health pots is, since they have health orbs that spawn from killing people, you get an insane amount of health already. I wish they would have just removed that feature though and took the cooldowns off pots.
Have to remember, the Blizzard people who made D1/D2 are not the same people who made D3(unfortunately).
The issue with health pots is, since they have health orbs that spawn from killing people, you get an insane amount of health already. I wish they would have just removed that feature though and took the cooldowns off pots.
Have to remember, the Blizzard people who made D1/D2 are not the same people who made D3(unfortunately).
I think you might be the only person that was arguing for health pots
Having to manage like 50 health pots was ridiculous. I would span the pot button hardcore in diablo 2 and then I would always have to refill. It was tedious. As a demon hunter I am still burning through pots. The game gets pretty difficult and you can be overwhelmed pretty easily and thats where the pots come in.
It sounds like you would enjoy PoE then. The skill tree in that game is massive. Honestly, that's not for me, I prefer the way D3 is setup. Pumping those points into a massive tree like that isn't really my idea of a hack n slash fun. Everyone on those PoE forums is constantly talking about whats a good (insert character) build, how do I allocate blah blah. Anyway that's my .02
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I finished ACT 1, done some Act 2 playing, but I've the feeeling that this game is missing some key factor. There is no more that feeling I had in D2, that made me just do one more dungeon, or explore one more bit corner of the map.
Not much really changed from D2, but something is amiss and doesn't feel right. Might be I grow too old, and that type of gaming does not seem fun for me, but I can't make myself play till 3 or 4 am, like I did when D1 and D2 hit the stores.
Oh, and I launched D2, to see what's wrong... it got me hooked for few hours, D3 can't do it.
Not much really changed from D2, but something is amiss and doesn't feel right. Might be I grow too old, and that type of gaming does not seem fun for me, but I can't make myself play till 3 or 4 am, like I did when D1 and D2 hit the stores.
Oh, and I launched D2, to see what's wrong... it got me hooked for few hours, D3 can't do it.
how about that act4 though baby! so sick.
This is where my templar comes in handy. I have him pretty much set to heal/defend me and even though I still die, he has saved my ass a few times.I think you might be the only person that was arguing for health pots
Having to manage like 50 health pots was ridiculous. I would span the pot button hardcore in diablo 2 and then I would always have to refill. It was tedious. As a demon hunter I am still burning through pots. The game gets pretty difficult and you can be overwhelmed pretty easily and thats where the pots come in.
/lvl 25 DH
From where I'm sitting the actual gameplay changes are all for the better. I cant think of a single gameplay element that I miss.
Mana pots and the potion belt system in D2? Nope. Constantly chugging pots was lame.
Identify scrolls? Nope.
TPs? They were cheesy. 'No quick escape' is better gameplay.
Inventory management and muling/banking? Huge improvement in D3.
Permanent Attributes? Nope. Skyrim and D3 both made the right decision in removing them. They really just moved to items anyway, just like talents morphed into the skill system.
Talent Trees? Those things are a disaster in every game that uses them. They sucked in D2, they sucked in every game that copied them from WoW to 10 different WoW clones. Every game that uses them ends up highly revising them but never getting it right (see: D2 synergies, WoW's endless iterations, etc).
Auction House instead of negotiating trades and getting ripped off? Excellent.
It has accessible complexity. You don't have to guess what talent build will be good in 60 levels. Your characters all grow with your increasing system knowledge as a player. When you learn something new ("hey, I should be balance my defensive attributes to minimize diminishing returns") you can do that right away without having to start a new character.
There are a couple design things I would prefer (offline play, larger group sizes), but the actual game is solid.
Mana pots and the potion belt system in D2? Nope. Constantly chugging pots was lame.
Identify scrolls? Nope.
TPs? They were cheesy. 'No quick escape' is better gameplay.
Inventory management and muling/banking? Huge improvement in D3.
Permanent Attributes? Nope. Skyrim and D3 both made the right decision in removing them. They really just moved to items anyway, just like talents morphed into the skill system.
Talent Trees? Those things are a disaster in every game that uses them. They sucked in D2, they sucked in every game that copied them from WoW to 10 different WoW clones. Every game that uses them ends up highly revising them but never getting it right (see: D2 synergies, WoW's endless iterations, etc).
Auction House instead of negotiating trades and getting ripped off? Excellent.
It has accessible complexity. You don't have to guess what talent build will be good in 60 levels. Your characters all grow with your increasing system knowledge as a player. When you learn something new ("hey, I should be balance my defensive attributes to minimize diminishing returns") you can do that right away without having to start a new character.
There are a couple design things I would prefer (offline play, larger group sizes), but the actual game is solid.
Agreed... bolas and grenades on my DH are completely useless... still using the entangling shot as my primary attack, and it kicks ass, letting my kite around. Same for 2ndrary attack - the "machine gun" just owns every boss or blue mob.
I so miss stat distribution, I really hate, when the game takes my by hand and tells "Oh no, you can't have your points added to dexterity, we know better, that you need more vitality"
SINCE lvl 14, I am 34 now. l2read
hahah yeah I have 660 intelligence at lvl 31 completing normal... that is not enough vitality for NM trust me.
I'm enjoying my DH, but I feel like it needs some tuning for sure. First, the hatred and discipline costs for some abilities are way too high. Some abilities just cost too much to really bother using over cheaper things. Secondly, I feel the class is a bit too squishy. None of the good gear seems to have vitality on it, so I'm stuck either stacking vitality to be more durable, or actually doing decent damage but run the risk of getting gibbed. I'm playing with some guildmates from WoW, and the others that play a DH say the same thing. The other classes just don't seem as squishy at all, but they do similar damage.
Good post and nice that you back up your comments with solid examples of comparative analysis.
Are you just being a troll? Dude, when in the history of video games has any video game been complex? Last time I thought about it, video games are suppose to be fun. And it seems that in plenty of peoples opinions, it is! So quit being a Debbie Downer. Geezus, you must be a real hoot in life. You're obviously playing the game, but let me guess you're just torturing yourself with the misery sitting in front of your computer?! Here's a suggestion, don't play it then!
Not trolling. Its an ok game, but not nearly what it should be, especially coming from one of Blizzards most successful franchises. Its a discussion thread, several pages back I posted positives and things they did right. This post wasn't as positive. Doesn't make me a troll, simply stating an opinion. There are plenty of games that have been complex and fun.
Thing is with these so called "complex" games, people then turn to online guides and steal other peoples builds. D2 took no thinking, you just did what someone else said is the best way to go. Not that the Diablo series was ever complex to begin with, its a ARPG.
TheMadHatterXxX
2[H]4U
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What is PoE? What does it stand for?
Intel_Hydralisk
Supreme [H]ardness
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I don't know... the game's not exactly hard, but I'm not about to throw a hissy fit because it's not hard at lower levels.
I think the whole point of inferno is for people who want a challenge. If you beat inferno on HC and thought it was easy... ok I'll give you that. If you're level 34 and you think it's too easy, then congrats but that's not the point of it right now.
I think the whole point of inferno is for people who want a challenge. If you beat inferno on HC and thought it was easy... ok I'll give you that. If you're level 34 and you think it's too easy, then congrats but that's not the point of it right now.
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The same exact thing will happen with Diablo 3 eventually, so don't kid yourself there.
Diablo 2 wasn't exactly "complex" IMO but Diablo 3 is even less so.
Somewhat agree with you. Sheep will always follow. It would be nice to see what my skills do for damage without having to do the math myself.
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Personnally, I don't expect the D3 to be too complex and I believe they hit the mark on the complexity level because it's supposed to be a fun hack'n'slash game. The main complexity come from picking the right items which sometime can mean life or death of the character.