Diablo 3 Discussion Thread

stevedave said:
yeah its the first time. Being able to see my exp bar move when I drop my monk bell is quite nice.
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I do miss my Wizard's playstyle. It was a lot of fun, but they buffed blizzard last patch (i never liked blizzard), and left my favorite move (meteor) untouched. It's still a decent nuke move, but i really want them to do some more balancing before I give it another shot. The discrepency in damage between various moves is just a little silly atm.

Any news on when the next patch will be and what it'll contain?
 
chockomonkey said:
I do miss my Wizard's playstyle. It was a lot of fun, but they buffed blizzard last patch (i never liked blizzard), and left my favorite move (meteor) untouched. It's still a decent nuke move, but i really want them to do some more balancing before I give it another shot. The discrepency in damage between various moves is just a little silly atm.

Any news on when the next patch will be and what it'll contain?
Click to expand...

As far as I know no news.

The wizard is just outclassed at the moment. He is crazy squishy and his damage is less than both Barb and Monks. The Demon Hunter has the shadow power which makes him pretty much a god....don't have a level 60 witch doctor yet so I don't know about him.

But for now I'd say the Wizard needs to most tweaking. An amp up of meteor and arcane orb is highly needed now that the monks wave of light does 800+ plus damage. Improved Akon is pretty much the only Akon mode people use so they should adjust the others....Maybe make one do 10% less damage but allows you to beam and move at the same time.
 
I've been waiting since about 1-2 months post release that they'd do a huge balancing patch.

While they've done some, they never seem to look at the whole picture and adjust things accordingly. Their approach is very piecemeal. No doubt it'd be a massive job--i hope it's one they get around to.

For some reason, i have pretty much 0 interest in other characters too. Something about casters in ARPGs... I was always a sorc in d2 (had like 5 of them, though i did have one trap assasin too), played a wizard in d3, played the mage class in Titans quest, and currently play a witch in PoE lol
 
stevedave said:
As far as I know no news.

The wizard is just outclassed at the moment. He is crazy squishy and his damage is less than both Barb and Monks. The Demon Hunter has the shadow power which makes him pretty much a god....don't have a level 60 witch doctor yet so I don't know about him.

But for now I'd say the Wizard needs to most tweaking. An amp up of meteor and arcane orb is highly needed now that the monks wave of light does 800+ plus damage. Improved Akon is pretty much the only Akon mode people use so they should adjust the others....Maybe make one do 10% less damage but allows you to beam and move at the same time.
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I'd love beam n move at the same time. Closest I'm doing is teleport when the cd is up. Crit mass in akon helps, but I'd rather have a sliding akon.
 
chockomonkey said:
I've been waiting since about 1-2 months post release that they'd do a huge balancing patch.

While they've done some, they never seem to look at the whole picture and adjust things accordingly. Their approach is very piecemeal. No doubt it'd be a massive job--i hope it's one they get around to.

For some reason, i have pretty much 0 interest in other characters too. Something about casters in ARPGs... I was always a sorc in d2 (had like 5 of them, though i did have one trap assasin too), played a wizard in d3, played the mage class in Titans quest, and currently play a witch in PoE lol
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I agree. Casters are the only way to play! I think it's the whole concept of "I must keep the mobs away from me to live" philosophy that intrigues me. The Monk and Barbarian classes are boring to me because they are too godlike. WitchDoctor is squishy, but you can overcome that with good game play and utilizing / chaining cool downs. Mage just gets in the wrong position and dies. Well seems that way. :)
 
stevedave said:
The wizard is just outclassed at the moment. He is crazy squishy and his damage is less than both Barb and Monks.
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Wizards and DH are top DPS in both HC and SC. Barbs and Monks aren't even placing in the top 20.
 
Breath_of_the_Dying said:
I'd love beam n move at the same time. Closest I'm doing is teleport when the cd is up. Crit mass in akon helps, but I'd rather have a sliding akon.
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I love Improved Archon on my Wiz. Watching enemies melt away so fast is awesome and quite the XP booster. I found a great route in ACT I to run XP plus the next few days is 25% increase mf/xp for their anniversary. Getting a lot of legs now. Found a nice crossbow for my DH and an upgrade chest piece for my Barb...
 
mope54 said:
Wizards and DH are top DPS in both HC and SC. Barbs and Monks aren't even placing in the top 20.
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there is more to doing damage than DPS. If you take a 200k DPS Monk and a 200k DPS Wizard the wizard will lose every time. My wizard is at 250k my monk is like 150k and the monk kills ubers much faster...the monk kills mobs much faster...The monk kills everything much faster....My barb is at like 90k DPS and he does more damage than my 250k wizard because he can attack constantly never getting frozen or stopped.

Wave of light does 829% weapon damage.......The wizard has nothing even close to this.
 
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stevedave said:
there is more to doing damage than DPS. If you take a 200k DPS Monk and a 200k DPS Wizard the wizard will loose every time. My wizard is at 250k my monk is like 150k and the monk kills ubers much faster...the monk kills mobs much faster...The monk kills everything much faster....My barb is at like 90k DPS and he does more damage than my 250k wizard because he can attack constantly never getting frozen or stopped.

Wave of light does 829% weapon damage.......The wizard has nothing even close to this.
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Same thing I found out about my Monk. It has a fraction of the dps of my Wizard or WitchDoctor, yet it can stand in the fire and dps while they require positioning, transitions, cool down watching, run speed, and general babysitting. I literally hit level 60 on the Monk, watched a 6 minute Youtube video, and was full clearing MP3 like a boss wearing garbage that I should have sold to a vendor.

There are huge differences in classes in this game. They need to label them beginner, intermediate, and advanced on the character creation screen. If they do label them I apologize as I haven't seen the creation screen since launch. :)
 
stevedave said:
Wave of light does 829% weapon damage.......The wizard has nothing even close to this.
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Meteor shower does 728% weapon damage and costs 2/3 mana.

The wizard can do 2184% weapon damage for the same cost the monk can do 1658% weapon damage.

That's just one example but it doesn't matter because the wizard isn't outclassed. The wizard ranks at the top of the leader boards in progression, dps, and rank while the monk is either non-existent or at the bottom of those boards.


You can't simply toss out objective date due to one personal experience of *your* monk killing trash faster than a wizard (and that's questionable if their gear is comparable).

Wizards are critical during ubers whereas monks aren't.

Witch doctors are freaking insane right now and have been for a long time. If your experiences differ you need to work on your character.
 
mope54 said:
Meteor shower does 728% weapon damage and costs 2/3 mana.

The wizard can do 2184% weapon damage for the same cost the monk can do 1658% weapon damage.

That's just one example but it doesn't matter because the wizard isn't outclassed. The wizard ranks at the top of the leader boards in progression, dps, and rank while the monk is either non-existent or at the bottom of those boards.


You can't simply toss out objective date due to one personal experience of *your* monk killing trash faster than a wizard (and that's questionable if their gear is comparable).

Wizards are critical during ubers whereas monks aren't.

Witch doctors are freaking insane right now and have been for a long time. If your experiences differ you need to work on your character.
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It is quite possible that you don't really know what you are talking about. Shower does 7 smaller Meteors that each strike for 104% weapon damage. 1 you'd have to hit with all 7 and 2 there is a massive delay when casting Meteor which Wave of light doesn't have.

wave of light + Blinding light stuns for 3 seconds...while not quite as good as a CM wizard it about 60 to 70% stun lock....but it does a ton more damage..

Take a look at my wizard and monk builds...both have solid gear both Paragon 60ish
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/dirkdirden-1579/

I have had much experience with all types of builds with both classes and pretty much always the monk does more damage with greater survivability in the long run.
 
Just reading the last few pages...wow is all i can say. I bought this game when it first came out and I made it to maybe level 30 with my barbarian? I can't even remember to be honest. I've been told that character is pretty much useless once you get to a certain level. Not sure where i read that but it seems true. I do want to start over being that i paid 60 bucks for the damn game and built a 2800 dollar computer just to play it lol. Overkill i know. So if i was to start over, which character would be the most fun and balanced in your opinion?
 
stevedave said:
It is quite possible that you don't really know what you are talking about. Shower does 7 smaller Meteors that each strike for 104% weapon damage. 1 you'd have to hit with all 7 and 2 there is a massive delay when casting Meteor which Wave of light doesn't have.

wave of light + Blinding light stuns for 3 seconds...while not quite as good as a CM wizard it about 60 to 70% stun lock....but it does a ton more damage..

Take a look at my wizard and monk builds...both have solid gear both Paragon 60ish
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/dirkdirden-1579/

I have had much experience with all types of builds with both classes and pretty much always the monk does more damage with greater survivability in the long run.
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I do in fact know what I'm talking about but as I've noted repeatedly in the thread my comments pertain to HC only. You may have fun playing softcore but it's pointless to argue that balancing should be focused around that broken mode.

I looked at your characters earlier when you posted your monk build. I also noticed at that time your highest character on HC is a wizard, which is the only experience of yours that has any relevance to me. I didn't go back and edit my post to reflect that I was aware of your characters but it doesn't matter... because in this post you even admit that your monk build is not as potent as a CM wizard.

You made him sound like he was useless and he is far from useless. In some cases, he's essential.


BTW, that 829% damage figure you keep citing is only directly under the bell. The wave doesn't do nearly as much.
 
Monks have a ton of passive damage from Sweeping Winds, it's why they do so much more damage then other classes with a lot lower damage number. Nevermind if they also use a pet.
 
Theultimateeye said:
Just reading the last few pages...wow is all i can say. I bought this game when it first came out and I made it to maybe level 30 with my barbarian? I can't even remember to be honest. I've been told that character is pretty much useless once you get to a certain level. Not sure where i read that but it seems true. I do want to start over being that i paid 60 bucks for the damn game and built a 2800 dollar computer just to play it lol. Overkill i know. So if i was to start over, which character would be the most fun and balanced in your opinion?
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It's probably not a good idea to base your opinion of the game or balancing on the posts from this thread because most of the negative posts are from people who don't play the game anymore and haven't for a long time.

But to directly answer your question your barb won't become useless so if you're having fun with him you could simply keep leveling him and be just fine. If you wanted to join public games you would definitely be helpful and welcome.

Monks do a lot of damage (monk is actually my most played class, which makes this conversation between me and stevedave funny since wizard is his most played class) but if you wanted to try something different from your barb the only problem with a monk is that it's still melee.
DH is very mobile with high damage output whereas the wizard is not particularly mobile with high damage output.
The witch doctor can be very tanky with extremely damaging AOE.

Your choice of what to play should depened on your playstyle and whether you want to play SC or HC and not on perceptions of which ones are useless. They are all fun and none are useless.
 
mope54 said:
I do in fact know what I'm talking about but as I've noted repeatedly in the thread my comments pertain to HC only. You may have fun playing softcore but it's pointless to argue that balancing should be focused around that broken mode.

I looked at your characters earlier when you posted your monk build. I also noticed at that time your highest character on HC is a wizard, which is the only experience of yours that has any relevance to me. I didn't go back and edit my post to reflect that I was aware of your characters but it doesn't matter... because in this post you even admit that your monk build is not as potent as a CM wizard.

You made him sound like he was useless and he is far from useless. In some cases, he's essential.


BTW, that 829% damage figure you keep citing is only directly under the bell. The wave doesn't do nearly as much.
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yeah HC and SC are in fact 2 rather different games and I was only referring to SC...the game the majority of players play.

The bell does easily 2 times meteor's damage at the same if not faster speeds...without that annoying delay. Wizard is my favorite class but he just can't do the same damage as a monk or barb at the similar DPS ranges.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhoiTAsSQZE
 
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mope54 said:
If you're going to post youtube videos use ones from the current patch

your 1.0.7 video of a monk on mp8

vs.

disintegrate/meteor wizard inferno mp10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2N6Fh2DPbY

disintegrate/blizzard mp1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JSIvpdCFvQ

disintegrate/blizzard mp5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTPZbdC9EYo

three archon wizards on inferno mp7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD9TMtAmJdc

300K unbuffed CM wizard mp10 uber run
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toDVqwL5o8g
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I was looking for the Bell monk specifically and there weren't any changes to the monk from 1.07 to 1.08 that I'm aware of. For whatever reason people have yet to use bell monk as much as they should. I can do MP10 Ubers with my bell monk rather easily...but it seems nobody else has posted a bell monk video.

There are plenty of MP10 ubers none bell monk videos on youtube ya just didn't look hard enough....There is even a monk in the wizard video you posted.

Maybe i'll find an application to record me MP10 with bells since nobody else has a video up from 1.0.8
 
No one said that monks were outclassed by everyone else so I'm not sure what you are trying to prove with videos or your posts.

You did say, however, that wizards were outclassed by monks and barbs and seem to be saying that they aren't worth playing. The videos I posted clearly show that's not the case.


You're so argumentative you are even arguing with yourself--telling me that I didn't look hard enough for mp10 solo monks because there's one in the wizard video I posted (if he's in the wizard video then he's *not* soloing, right?), but then you're going to record one later because no one else has one up (exactly what I wrote)! I'm just going to end the discussion between us right here.
 
mope54 said:
I do in fact know what I'm talking about but as I've noted repeatedly in the thread my comments pertain to HC only. You may have fun playing softcore but it's pointless to argue that balancing should be focused around that broken mode.

I looked at your characters earlier when you posted your monk build. I also noticed at that time your highest character on HC is a wizard, which is the only experience of yours that has any relevance to me. I didn't go back and edit my post to reflect that I was aware of your characters but it doesn't matter... because in this post you even admit that your monk build is not as potent as a CM wizard.

You made him sound like he was useless and he is far from useless. In some cases, he's essential.


BTW, that 829% damage figure you keep citing is only directly under the bell. The wave doesn't do nearly as much.
Click to expand...

mope54 said:
If you're going to post youtube videos use ones from the current patch

your 1.0.7 video of a monk on mp8

vs.

disintegrate/meteor wizard inferno mp10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2N6Fh2DPbY

disintegrate/blizzard mp1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JSIvpdCFvQ

disintegrate/blizzard mp5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTPZbdC9EYo

three archon wizards on inferno mp7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD9TMtAmJdc

300K unbuffed CM wizard mp10 uber run
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OINywIcrck
Click to expand...

Not that I care too much about balance since I'm having fun with my monk in HC, but all I see are softcore links.
 
mope54 said:
If you're going to post youtube videos use ones from the current patch

your 1.0.7 video of a monk on mp8
links to 1.0.8 videos
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mope54 said:
Here's part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeNFHsj3gPg
and part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEjAaiWeEF4

The main reason the thread isn't active with people talking about how they enjoy the game and trading ideas around is because it's become a big smelly shitfest of trolling.
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Published on Apr 20, 2013


Again, I dont really care about your argument, I'm not for or against it, but you keep going back on your words
 
it was on the 1.0.8 PTR if you bothered to read the notes

you certainly seem to care about my argument that wizards aren't useless or outclassed and don't need buffs

instead of being a pedant why don't you demonstrate how useless they are
 
Because you aren't arguing or proving anything, so why should people have anything to say to you? He didn't say Wizards couldn't do things like kill Ubers on MP10, he said Monks do more actual damage, which they do. There's no difference between 1.07 and 1.08 for most Monks.

Any class can do a ton of damage if you have the money for the ridiculous gear, Monks do a lot more damage then the numbers show. A 200k Monk is going to do more damage then a 200k any other class. That's just what it is.

Not to mention the CM Wizard playstyle is entirely just have a macro to push the shit for you.
 
just when I think I've got all the trolls on ignore in this thread another pops up and sends a bothersome notification to my email

it's like whack-a-mole
 
So just wondering but who else is agreeing with you that Wizards are equal to a Monk? (Of course I'm probably on ignore already.)
 
He's the only one trolling in this thread /shrug. He has no argument except that Wizards can kill Ubers, which no one stated otherwise. Wizards are even the best for Ubers because CM is basically permanent stun. That has little bearing on real damage.
 
Wiz and DH were never meant to tank like a Monk or Barb. That's the reason you have different classes. My main is a Wiz and I built him like a melee toon that can take damage, but you have to sacrifice dps for that. No more buffs are needed and certainly no nerfs as well. Learn to play.
 
pcjunkie said:
Wiz and DH were never meant to tank like a Monk or Barb. That's the reason you have different classes. My main is a Wiz and I built him like a melee toon that can take damage, but you have to sacrifice dps for that. No more buffs are needed and certainly no nerfs as well. Learn to play.
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I tried very hard to do a Tank Wizard...But it never fully works due to knockback, vortex, and frozen. If crystal shell had a Prevent Knockback, Vortex, and Stun option you could totally have a full tank wizard....In order to avoid those you need an evasive ability which no longer makes you a tank.

The DH however can tank quite well with shadow power:gloom, preparation, and smoke screen...and double socketed manticores are insane too I found one with int and it is still plenty good enough to use.

I went from like level 0 to 60 in just a few hours with the bonus exp on my Witch Doctor....so now I have a level 60 in each class.....I was hoping I could just use my wizard gear on my witch doctor but without Force Armor 18k life just can't cut it and death in emanate........Time to craft some defensive Items with Vitality to see if I can manage a tank WD
 
tehslippery said:
He's the only one trolling in this thread /shrug. He has no argument except that Wizards can kill Ubers, which no one stated otherwise. Wizards are even the best for Ubers because CM is basically permanent stun. That has little bearing on real damage.
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this lol
 
tehslippery said:
He's the only one trolling in this thread /shrug. He has no argument except that Wizards can kill Ubers, which no one stated otherwise. Wizards are even the best for Ubers because CM is basically permanent stun. That has little bearing on real damage.
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No, that's not even close to what I wrote.

stevedave started the discussion by claiming that wizards are outclassed and that he won't play them until they're buffed. cageymaru and chockomonkey (two people who haven't even played the game in at least six months by their own timelines if you look back at them starting another senseless argument in this thread back in March) also chimed in with how weak the wizard is.

If you haven't played the game in a timeframe where there have been multiple balance patches (including the latest that specifically buffed the wizard) and whining about the balance in a thread about a game you no longer play that's trolling, not the person posting evidence that they are wrong.

I used actual data, not opinions pulled out of my ass, pointing out that wizards are at the top of the leaderboards in terms of raw dps, progression, and in world ranking. Then stevedave started arguing that raw dps isn't all that matters (but then contradicts himself by basing his argument on a single dps dependent skill). I never disagreed with the idea that raw dps isn't the only thing that should be compared and that's why I didn't *just* use dps figures. In fact, I used an example of how the wizard could reach higher damage output based on the lower mana costs of one of his nukes. Of course he threw that example out as irrelevant because it's an AOE skill that he doesn't like to use. That said, there has to be some basis for comparison if we're going to talk about damage between classes and dps, progression, and world ranking are the charts we have access to.

Then stevedave posted a video of a monk clearing a map even though I never said monks were weak. In response, I posted about 5 videos of different wizard builds at different places in the game at different mp levels so people could make up their own minds over whether the wizard is so underpowered that he needs buffs. I posted them in response to his video. But that requires you to actually watch the video, which you apparently didn't do or else you wouldn't have concluded that I was arguing that CM wizards can do ubers.

I posted the video of a wizard doing a solo uber at mp10 because someone asked what kind of gear a wizard needed to be competitive with the monk and that was the video I found with a link to his profile.

I posted the second uber video because breath of the dying nitpicked my post based on an earlier statement of mine that my opinion about balance pertains to HC. The two things, balance and whether a class can clear content, are two different concepts that should be clear to most mature individuals who aren't simply trying to nitpick. Since he didn't add anything else to the discussion other than to try and make that "gotcha" point I said he was trolling me.

Finally, you're just plain wrong in your conclusion that there is no relationship between ability to complete ubers and damage output. Ubers are timed. Being able to solo ubers is the best gauge on a player/class damage output. But not everyone is end-game and that's why I posted many other videos of wizards playing everything from the first act to the last on various mp levels so that people could see for themselves just how fun all kinds of wizard builds can be in this current patch.

I never said that stevedave was trolling. I just thought he and I have different opinions about the relative usefulness of a wizard in the current patch. I do say that the couple people who no longer play posting negative comments almost daily in this thread and the couple people who only quote me to try and do "gotcha" moments without adding anything of substance to the discussion are trolling. And I think it's posts like theirs that make this thread a relatively inhospitable place for people playing the game to share their experiences.


stevedave found that there are *no* bell monks clearing mp10 ubers solo on youtube. If he can do it he should just to be the first person on this patch to drop that video.
 
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mope54 said:
No, that's not even close to what I wrote.

stevedave started the discussion by claiming that wizards are outclassed and that he won't play them until they're buffed. cageymaru and chockomonkey (two people who haven't even played the game in at least six months by their own timelines if you look back at them starting another senseless argument in this thread back in March) also chimed in with how weak the wizard is.

If you haven't played the game in a timeframe where there have been multiple balance patches and whining about the balance in a thread about a game you no longer play that's trolling. How you think that me, who currently plays the game, pointing out that they don't know what they're talking about is wrong is trolling is bizarre.

I used actual data, not opinions pulled out of my ass, pointing out that wizards are at the top of the leaderboards in terms of raw dps, progression, and in world ranking. Then stevedave started arguing that raw dps isn't all that matters (but then contradicts himself by basing his argument on one monk's dps dependent skill). I never disagreed with the idea that raw dps isn't the only thing that should be compared and that's why I didn't *just* use dps figures. In fact, I used an example of the wizard reaching higher damage output based on mana costs of the two skills. Of course he threw that example out as irrelevant. That said, there has to be some basis for comparison if we're going to talk about damage between classes and those are the charts we have access to.

Then *he* posted a video of a monk clearing a map. I didn't post videos of wizards clearing ubers. I posted *one* video of a wizard doing an mp10 run. I posted about 5 videos of different wizard builds at different places in the game at different mp levels so people could make up their own minds over whether the wizard is so underpowered that he needs buffs. But that requires you to actually watch the video, which you apparently didn't do or else you wouldn't have concluded that I was arguing that CM wizards can do ubers.


Finally, you're just plain wrong in your conclusion that there is no relationship between ability to complete ubers and damage output. Ubers are timed. Being able to solo ubers is the best gauge on a player/class damage output.

even stevedave found that there are *no* bell monks clearing mp10 ubers solo on youtube. don't you think if he could do it he would just to be the first person on this patch to drop that video?
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Ok man you are just a bit out there...Are you a wizard in real life?

This is how I started this.
"
The wizard is just outclassed at the moment. He is crazy squishy and his damage is less than both Barb and Monks. The Demon Hunter has the shadow power which makes him pretty much a god....don't have a level 60 witch doctor yet so I don't know about him.

But for now I'd say the Wizard needs to most tweaking. An amp up of meteor and arcane orb is highly needed now that the monks wave of light does 800+ plus damage. Improved Akon is pretty much the only Akon mode people use so they should adjust the others....Maybe make one do 10% less damage but allows you to beam and move at the same time.
"

Never did I say I 'won't play a wizard' Never did I say 'the wizard isn't good'. All I said is what I just quoted. The wizard has to do a lot more work (Pumping up his DPS) to do the same amount of damage as other classes.

You didn't use actual data....unless you count DPS as actual data but as I have been saying that is a poor gauge of damage.

I cleared MP 10 twice last night with my Bell Monk...What I can't do is clear MP10 with my wizard. However spending the time to record myself do it is not how I want to spend my time.

To my point a low 130K dps bell monk can pop into any MP10 game and hold his own.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUm_ouQmFnE

......But Azmodan doesn't move so even this is a poor test of real game damage.

Here is a bell monk doing MP10 ubers. on 1.0.7 (no change to the monk). He isn't even using the build right and he clears it no problem....He should use quickening it will build his spirit way WAY faster.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N7Cij9ylwo


After this I'm disengaging myself from this conversation as you may to be a wizard and they can be a bit unstable.
 
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