Diablo 3 Beta

[Katalysis]

I've played the game. What started out as a mix of improvements and steps backward have slowly titled toward lateral moves and lots of steps backward, imo. There is a reason Blizzard is in some sort of damage control time spiral where the game keeps getting pushed back, but every change they make is for the worse and the community flips out. I was fine with online only and RMAH, but the actual game components are leaving me cautious as to the final product.

The new rune system is just moronic. They touted it like you had to find these rune drops and then could attach them to abilites to make them perform differently. Now, they just unlock like any other skill and the changes they make to the base ability mean the base ability is now functionally worthless, because the runed version is the same spell with greater range (wizard aoe) or on fire (DH hungering arrow). There is literally no trade off, which means the amount of skills in the game is defacto reduced.

 

[Deleted member 174368]

At this point this thread is exactly like the Battlefield 3 pre-release one, where everyone who wanted BF2 2.0 just kept looking for reasons to say "Ha ha look at this piece of shit! Why would anyone buy this???" and the ratio of shitposts to posts actually discussing the game was reaching astronomical levels.

The CM post was just a sugar coated version of "Stop creating ridiculously unrealistic expectations for the game because they're probably not going to be met". This happens to every single videogame. It doesn't mean "yeah our game is gonna suck lol cya suckers", but you know, whatever.

 

[stryder2720]

At this point this thread is exactly like the Battlefield 3 pre-release one, where everyone who wanted BF2 2.0 just kept looking for reasons to say "Ha ha look at this piece of shit! Why would anyone buy this???" and the ratio of shitposts to posts actually discussing the game was reaching astronomical levels.

The CM post was just a sugar coated version of "Stop creating ridiculously unrealistic expectations for the game because they're probably not going to be met". This happens to every single videogame. It doesn't mean "yeah our game is gonna suck lol cya suckers", but you know, whatever.

Mountains out of molehills.

 

[NoOther]

At this point this thread is exactly like the Battlefield 3 pre-release one, where everyone who wanted BF2 2.0 just kept looking for reasons to say "Ha ha look at this piece of shit! Why would anyone buy this???" and the ratio of shitposts to posts actually discussing the game was reaching astronomical levels.

The CM post was just a sugar coated version of "Stop creating ridiculously unrealistic expectations for the game because they're probably not going to be met". This happens to every single videogame. It doesn't mean "yeah our game is gonna suck lol cya suckers", but you know, whatever.

Exactly this. The funny thing is, I keep playing the game and even with all the changes that I agree are perhaps steps backward, the game is still fun. I will still buy the game, I still think it is worth buying and Blizzard still has an extremely good reputation for allowing user content and customization to their games.

The flexibility and replayability of Blizzard games is usually what makes them so worthwhile. Some of these changes look like they help balance things for that aspect. I see other games where you have all these options and can min/max stuff, but to create additional content from the game that is balanced takes a long time and usually a lot of work. While some things may be dumbed down, it should make it that much easier to add a lot more balanced content later on.

 

[Valshistixol]

I am not upset, its just that your posts are absurd. I don't care if you have never heard of it, its been done over and over and is easy. That has always been the point and allure of Diablo, an easy hack n slash RPG game. That has always been its style.

The community manager works for Blizzard, managing the community not making the game. So yes, it would absolutely mean more coming from someone in Blizzard who actually works on the bloody game. Stop sensationalizing things that have no merit. You haven't even played the game, yet you make comments about it, then you keep posting stuff that has no merit on the game at all. Why are you even here?

I have played the game. I know what I'm talking about.

lol Damage Control http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4079872821#1

 

[NoOther]

I have played the game. I know what I'm talking about.

Screenshots or shens. You have said nothing about the actual beta except speculation. You have offered zero constructive information. All your posts have been based off of other people's experiences or posts. You are simply a sensationalist, talking down about a game you have offered nothing constructive about.

 

[Valshistixol]

Screenshots or shens. You have said nothing about the actual beta except speculation. You have offered zero constructive information. All your posts have been based off of other people's experiences or posts. You are simply a sensationalist, talking down about a game you have offered nothing constructive about.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4063008863?page=2#36

The article cited their sources. Learn to read. And I have played through the beta on EVERY CHARACTER because I wanted Diablo 3 to be good. It's not. I have even played the latest patch.

 

[NoOther]

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4063008863?page=2#36

The article cited their sources. Learn to read. And I have played through the beta on EVERY CHARACTER because I wanted Diablo 3 to be good. It's not. I have even played the latest patch.

Umm, you learn to read. I haven't read that article yet because I don't currently have access to it. Nor did I comment on it at all. But my comment about your posts and behavior still stands. You have provided NO proof you have played it and NO constructive information. You STILL after telling me to read have yet to provide one shed of any useful information at all.

Again pics or shens. You make tons of claims and absolutely ZERO proof.

 

[Actuary]

maybe for a melee class? I always played sorc and had teleport. GL swapping moves back and forth with a mouse. Oh and potions aren't necessary right?

Right Click for potions. It being easier with a keyboard does not mean it was impossible to do with only a mouse. Thanks for playing.

I am not upset, its just that your posts are absurd. I don't care if you have never heard of it, its been done over and over and is easy. That has always been the point and allure of Diablo, an easy hack n slash RPG game. That has always been its style.

Agreed, and that is what is so frustrating about these types of conversations. People will complain about Diablo 3 being dumbed down or consolized as if Diablo 2 was some wonderfully complicated, deep game. It wasn't. It was a fairly mindless hack and slash that would have been easy to port to a console.

 

[Valshistixol]

Umm, you learn to read. I haven't read that article yet because I don't currently have access to it. Nor did I comment on it at all. But my comment about your posts and behavior still stands. You have provided NO proof you have played it and NO constructive information. You STILL after telling me to read have yet to provide one shed of any useful information at all.

Again pics or shens. You make tons of claims and absolutely ZERO proof.

You keep asking for pics and no one knows of what. I posted an article and you are up in arms over something you haven't even read rofl.

 

[chockomonkey]

Umm, you learn to read. I haven't read that article yet because I don't currently have access to it. Nor did I comment on it at all. But my comment about your posts and behavior still stands. You have provided NO proof you have played it and NO constructive information. You STILL after telling me to read have yet to provide one shed of any useful information at all.

Again pics or shens. You make tons of claims and absolutely ZERO proof.

You just denied to give proof that you can play d2 with only a mouse, yet now you want him to provide proof?

I still call shens on anyone who says they can play D2 (well) with only a mouse.

Right Click for potions. It being easier with a keyboard does not mean it was impossible to do with only a mouse. Thanks for playing.

I suppose you stand still in combat, getting hit by mobs, while clicking to change spells too, right?

 

[NoOther]

You just denied to give proof that you can play d2 with only a mouse, yet now you want him to provide proof?

I still call shens on anyone who says they can play D2 (well) with only a mouse.

One, D2 is an old game that I don't even have installed anymore. There has been tons or proof over the years all over the place of people playing with just a mouse. There were posts and threads and tons of speculation about D2 going to console...just like D3. Many people were showing how easy it would be to port. So what proof do I need to show? Only Valshistixol disagreed you could play it with a mouse. I also didn't say you could play it well. That is subjective. Define what you mean by well? D1 and D2 are simple hack n slashes, it takes almost no effort to play through them. Also, personally I like playing games much better on the PC than on the console, but it doesn't mean it can't be done as has been proven many times.

As for me calling shens on Valshistixol, this is a forum on Diablo 3 Beta not Diablo 2. And he has said many things based on other people's experiences and keeps hating on the game. But he has yet to show he actually has any experience whatsoever about the game. So my responses are completely appropriate.

I suppose you stand still in combat, getting hit by mobs, while clicking to change spells too, right?

Perhaps I do, and what is wrong with that if I still stay alive? Or perhaps I am just smart enough to know which spells to pick before I go into certain areas? Wow...how novel is that?

You keep asking for pics and no one knows of what. I posted an article and you are up in arms over something you haven't even read rofl.

Again, read. What level of reading comprehension do you have? I never commented on that article. I commented on YOUR posts and what YOU say. That is what people do in these forums. And when talking about a Beta game, that many of us are actually playing and discussing, I am commenting on your complete lack of any personal knowledge or insight whatsoever on the game.

And to make it clear what pictures I am asking for as anyone would be able to understand...

PICS. OF. YOU. PLAYING. DIABLO. 3. BETA. CAN. YOU. UNDERSTAND. NOW?

 

[chockomonkey]

No one has ever said that it is not technically possible to play this on a console or with a mouse. That's why i used the word "well," and while I know it is a subjective term, i think most people who have spent plenty of time in D2 know exactly what one would mean by that.

Maybe if you were playing single player, and stopped after beating normal difficulty, one could play d2 well with a mouse. heh.

 

[Valshistixol]

 

[Krenum]

Fact: Blizzard fucked this game up by taking "basic attack" out of the picture and forcing you to set skills.

What if I don't want a skill attack on my left mouse button? What if I want my basic attack to be the left mouse button?.....

What really gets me, is the fact that they still allow you to equip a melee weapon on ranged characters but don't let you use it. Its pretty stupid. To me its like being able to equip an item, but not letting you reap the benefits of the stats.

 

[NoOther]

Fact: Blizzard fucked this game up by taking "basic attack" out of the picture and forcing you to set skills.

What if I don't want a skill attack on my left mouse button? What if I want my basic attack to be the left mouse button?.....

What really gets me, is the fact that they still allow you to equip a melee weapon on ranged characters but don't let you use it. Its pretty stupid. To me its like being able to equip an item, but not letting you reap the benefits of the stats.

Yeah, this was a move I didn't understand. I am not sure it is going to remain that way though. I was confused by this, before I was keeping certain weapons on my mouse buttons and using my number pad for all my abillities so I could maximize my options of what I could do. I already didn't like that I could only use so many spells at once when my character apparently knew a number of spells.

That being said, I found that it was still easier and more effedctive most times to button mash the abilities rather than use the basic attacks.

 

[Yoshiyuki Blade]

You can use it, but right now its kind of awkward (you have to run out of your class resource so you can't use your skills/spells and be forced to use your weapon). I still find it hard to believe that this is the final state of the game.

Just treat every beta build as a WIP and not a fact. The feedback on this issue is pretty high so I'm expecting some kind of response, whether they intend to leave it like this or not.

 

[NoOther]

You can use it, but right now its kind of awkward (you have to run out of your class resource so you can't use your skills/spells and be forced to use your weapon). I still find it hard to believe that this is the final state of the game.

Just treat every beta build as a WIP and not a fact. The feedback on this issue is pretty high so I'm expecting some kind of response, whether they intend to leave it like this or not.

Even with all the betas I have done for Blizzard, which has been pretty much every beta they have had, the final version was still significantly different than the last beta they released. Usually it has added features and better balance. And then I find the first few patches also fix a number of issues. I would suspect this will be one of the things they look at and test more to see what might be done.

 

[Krenum]

You can use it, but right now its kind of awkward (you have to run out of your class resource so you can't use your skills/spells and be forced to use your weapon). I still find it hard to believe that this is the final state of the game.

Just treat every beta build as a WIP and not a fact. The feedback on this issue is pretty high so I'm expecting some kind of response, whether they intend to leave it like this or not.

I hope they change it, the game was fantastic before patch 13.

 

[NoOther]

I hope they change it, the game was fantastic before patch 13.

I haven't kept up to date with the actual Patch numbers heh. One of the things I am not sure I like, although I understand its purpose, is having to build up your spirit to use your second ability. I am not always sure those abilities do enough damage to have to wait that long of an interval to use them. But it hasn't really detracted that much from my play, I just adjust how I do my abilities in accordance to that slight limitation.

 

[sekira05]

Yes they fucked up the game for removing auto attack that is worthless to use for most builds.... yeah... its the end of the world as we know it!

It will be patched in eventually, its just beta, get a grip.

 

[Krenum]

Yes they fucked up the game for removing auto attack that is worthless to use for most builds.... yeah... its the end of the world as we know it!

Nothing is worthless as long as people use it. Problem is there just isn't any room in the gaming community for unorthodox styles of play anymore. From what I have been seeing (and I have seen many posts like this) the overall consensus is "If you don't play this way, your doing it wrong".

Give people the chance to play how they want to play. That is all I ask. Everyone is different and if you confine people to certain styles, more often than not it will turn them off.

 

[NoOther]

Nothing is worthless as long as people use it. Problem is there just isn't any room in the gaming community for unorthodox styles of play anymore. From what I have been seeing (and I have seen many posts like this) the overall consensus is "If you don't play this way, your doing it wrong".

Give people the chance to play how they want to play. That is all I ask. Everyone is different and if you confine people to certain styles, more often than not it will turn them off.

I think the answer to why they do this follows more along the lines of trying to limit the amount of cheating/hacking that can be done and improving the online capabiities. To make it easier to user content that is fair and balanced. That takes away from some of our personal customization and freedom though.

 

[chockomonkey]

I think the answer to why they do this follows more along the lines of trying to limit the amount of cheating/hacking that can be done and improving the online capabiities. To make it easier to user content that is fair and balanced. That takes away from some of our personal customization and freedom though.

they control the balance though, so they could make lots of balanced options. IMO it's a cost vs reward decision. Extra time spent on making more balanced build options doesn't yield them more money

 

[NoOther]

they control the balance though, so they could make lots of balanced options. IMO it's a cost vs reward decision. Extra time spent on making more balanced build options doesn't yield them more money

They don't controll all the balance. Remember the more options they give, the more options there are to exploit. That is why many games get a little more dumbed down as they gain more and more online features. Also because they are generally trying to reach out to more players too. It is usually just something we have to deal with as hardcore gamers.

 

[chockomonkey]

They don't controll all the balance.

I don't understand. If they control how many stats are available, and what those stats do, and which gear has certain stats and how much, and they decide how skills scale based on these stats, how do they not control the whole picture?

It reminds me of agility hunters in vanilla WoW. Here was an option that blizzard put in the game, which they later realized was not balanced when hunters did nothing but stack agility. So they ended up reworking it in a patch so that it was balanced, they didn't just remove the option completely.

They have all the power as i see it...

edit: and unless there is clearly a bug, i don't consider these agility stacked hunters as exploiting the mechanic, but simply finding the most beneficial stat through trial and error, maybe research too, and using that to base their decision off of. That to me is where the fun is--figuring out which type of build suits your playstyle, which ones are good, and then basing your decision off that.

 

[NoOther]

I don't understand. If they control how many stats are available, and what those stats do, and which gear has certain stats and how much, and they decide how skills scale based on these stats, how do they not control the whole picture?

It reminds me of agility hunters in vanilla WoW. Here was an option that blizzard put in the game, which they later realized was not balanced when hunters did nothing but stack agility. So they ended up reworking it in a patch so that it was balanced, they didn't just remove the option completely.

They have all the power as i see it...

edit: and unless there is clearly a bug, i don't consider these agility stacked hunters as exploiting the mechanic, but simply finding the most beneficial stat through trial and error, maybe research too, and using that to base their decision off of. That to me is where the fun is--figuring out which type of build suits your playstyle, which ones are good, and then basing your decision off that.

That is just it, the more stats you have that people can abuse, the harder it is to balance. Everytime you give a new option it exponentially increases the things someone can do with it. Especially if you are able to use a hack or bug and take advantage of it even more. Add in the fact you are now playing online with a bunch of other people and it now exponentially changes the experience of your game. Now someone else has an unfair advantage abusing a stat or using a hack over someone who is playing normally.

Everytime you add something, you have to monitor and check for it. Everytime you monitor and check for something it takes more resources and starts to limit some of the things you might be able to do. When you have a lot of people online using a lot of resources, then you introduce a whole new level of problems.

So you see, each action creates a huge ripple that costs more and more and more. And each cost is different. Sure they may upset some hardcore gamers by dumbing down some things, but how many more people will they end up making happy, and how easy will it be for them to maintain their happiness? That is the trade off they are dealing with.

 

[chockomonkey]

^^ yes, and unfortunately for us hardcore gamers it makes too much business sense to dumb things down, which is what casualization is all about.

 

[NoOther]

^^ yes, and unfortunately for us hardcore gamers it makes too much business sense to dumb things down, which is what casualization is all about.

Well, depends on how you look at it. Why did you start playing games in the first place? For fun and entertainment, no? Are you still entertained? Do you 'have' to have all those options or is the game still fun without them? Geez, I find myself play LoL a lot now and there really isn't much to that game, but its fun. Angry Birds is fairly simple, and it is fun. Civ 4 I felt had waaaay too many options, Civ 5 I felt was extremely dumbed down, but for me the multiplayer for Civ 5 vastly trumps that of Civ 4. And some games they added more elements and people balked. Like WC3. It added heroes and abilities in it and people said that took away from the basic strategy gameplay they loved from SC. So with SC2 they took out some things and made some things easier, and then people balked at that.

I just think it is a matter of perspective. If you make a game fun and balanced and add enough social playability to it, you will succeed. I think that is all they are looking to do here with Diablo 3. Give people another addition to the franchise, stay true to the hack n slash, make it easy to play and add some more elements for people to play together.

Also we sit here and harp on the customization of it, but in reality we only get to play the first few levels. When the full game is released and we get up into the higher levels. how much more options will we end up having with our characters? It seems limited now with the low levels we can obtain, but how will it seem when we can get to max level?

That is mostly why I hold any real 'judgement' on it before I can play the whole thing. I think it is fun now just the way it is even with the limitations. I think it is fun enough to warrant me giving it a try. That is my impression.

 

[c@Nc3r1369]

These changes have nothing to do with hacks and cheats and all to do with casualization to get a larger audience playing(specificlly console gamers) so stop saying that nonsense. I'm glad you don't mind everything getting dumbed down but there is already enough games like that. Like you already mentioned there is angry birds and all those other quick time waste. Why does every game have to be made for all audiences. Why can't there be any new games with some kind of theory crafting.

It reminds me of dragons age and how every expansion and sequel after it just got dumber and dumber. This is happening in console gaming also with games like the final fantasy series. Those have auto play so you don't even have to do anything but hit one button and then as you level up you don't allocate or do anything you just get xp and then yay your stronger.

From all the stuff I read there are plenty out there that are happy with what they are getting and good for them. I want theory crafting in my games, I want to come up with strange builds, I want he chance to fuck up my character and learn what was wrong and make something better. And just because a bunch of people only did "builds" that everyone online aggreed was best doesn't mean everyone did. I hate being told how to build my character in an RPG and I hate being told how to play that same character. If you have no choice the RPG is gone and its just an action/adventure game and those games are only fun for a few weeks, not a decade like diablo2 was.

 

[Krenum]

I hate being told how to build my character in an RPG and I hate being told how to play that same character. If you have no choice the RPG is gone and its just an action/adventure game and those games are only fun for a few weeks, not a decade like diablo2 was.

See this person gets it.

Now if we could just convince those guys over at Blizzard the same thing we will be sitting pretty.

 

[TwistedAegis]

Diablo has always been a stretch to qualify as RPG...its focus has always been much more on the action side.

 

[DSee]

I really wish I could play it

 

[Valshistixol]

Diablo has always been a stretch to qualify as RPG...its focus has always been much more on the action side.

Whether or not it is an RPG doesn't change the fact that Blizzard is removing all variety from character builds.

 

[krameriffic]

Diablo has always been a stretch to qualify as RPG...its focus has always been much more on the action side.

People call it an RPG because of the character specification and building aspects of the game, not because of the story.

 

[Toboggan]

The beta is extremely limited. You cannot accurately judge how the rune system works until you get to play with it at a higher level with all your spells and all of the runes unlocked. I personally like what they've done with this latest patch. It's all about end game, who cares what the beginning 20 levels are like... you are all judging with too little to go off of. The end product will work out I think, but only time will tell.

 

[Krenum]

Toboggan;1038425295 It's all about end game, who cares what the beginning 20 levels are like... you are all judging with too little to go off of.

You know what they say, first impressions are everything. I care about the first 20 levels, I think the game needs to keep your attention for the first few levels. If it can't do that than chances are the rest of the game is going to be stale as well.

Playing from patch 13 I am under the impression that this game is for casuals / party gamers. It screams streamlined for new players (people who haven't played Diablo). I could get past the fact that the game looked like a Thomas Kinkade painting. Thats fine, I'm an artist too, but now there messing around with the function of the game. Its hard to deal with, especially being a person who put a large amount of hours into the first two games and games like it, like Titan Quest and Tourchlight. Blizzard is pretty much throwing everything that has been a foundation for the Action RPG genre out the window and in turn Alienating there long time fan base. But I guess that is how it goes when you have so many new fans that don't know the old style.


One person on the D3 forums said it best. If you took the Diablo title out of the game and the characters associated with the Diablo series out of the game, what you you be left with? Would you even believe it was Diablo? The game has gone through such a drastic change in design that its not even recognizable as a Diablo title without these two.

 

[v0rtic3s]

All this talk of "limitations" regarding D3 is whining bullshit.

Every character gets to choose between 25 different skills, and can switch-out skills at any time to try different builds.

Those skills, hence builds, can massively vary depending on what Runestones are used for each skill, since Runestones can radically change how a skill works and what it does.

There are 7 different Runestones for every skill, so that's essentially 175 different skills for every character, 6 skill slots, to be used in any combination you so chose, and you can choose Elective Mode in order to do just that, and take any skills for any combination you want. So, 175 different skills to choose from, multiplied by six skill slots, is 1,050 possible different builds with skills alone, and that's not counting how much variation will be added by using different gear.

So what the fuck are you complaining about?
Just because you cant allocate points between the other stats? Who gives a shit? It's not a major issue, given that skill alteration is the biggest issue.
The only difference it would make would be having a little more health, intelligence etc. than some other guy.

In D2, there were 30 different skills that were just flat-out what they were, no alterations, and 4 attributes to put points into, that's it... where's the huge fucking difference? There isn't one, so nothing is anything "dumbed down".

The only difference with D3 is that your attributes level as you do, but you have the option to alter every single skill into something possibly radically different.

Not being able to put points into specific skills simply to make them stronger also is not a big deal, as the power of skills also levels as you do, and I don't see that as an issue either. What... just because you cant specifically up the power of a hammer swing or your ice orb specifically, "dumbs-down" a game!?

Who gives a shit that it's "radically different" than D2? Which it's not, in totality... I don't want the same god damn game! I played D2 for 5+ years online. Something different is a welcomed change. It doesn't mean it's "not Diablo", for fucks sake. What is with you people and always making comparisons like this!? If you want D2, then go re-skin the entirety of D2, play that and shut the hell up.

And people need to stop with the level cap shit in every damn game... it's just a fucking number... 60, 80, 956... it makes not god damn difference. In the end, it all works out the same, because it's tailored different for every game! So level 60 in one game would be equal to level 3,409 in another game, since devs will spread out how much power, points etc. you gain at every level.

So much fucking whining over nothing. Just enjoy the damn game for what it is. They've done a good job with interesting skill variations and visually the game, especially the skill effects, look fantastic, as do the different effects they have on combat.

If you want to crunch numbers all damn day, become a fucking accountant and leaving gaming for gamers.

 

[Krenum]

All this talk of "limitations" regarding D3 is whining bullshit.

Every character gets to choose between 25 different skills, and can switch-out skills at any time to try different builds.

Those skills, hence builds, can massively vary depending on what Runestones are used for each skill, since Runestones can radically change how a skill works and what it does.

There are 7 different Runestones for every skill, so that's essentially 175 different skills for every character, 6 skill slots, to be used in any combination you so chose, and you can choose Elective Mode in order to do just that, and take any skills for any combination you want. So, 175 different skills to choose from, multiplied by six skill slots, is 1,050 possible different builds with skills alone, and that's not counting how much variation will be added by using different gear.

So what the fuck are you complaining about?
Just because you cant allocate points between the other stats? Who gives a shit? It's not a major issue, given that skill alteration is the biggest issue.
The only difference it would make would be having a little more health, intelligence etc. than some other guy.

In D2, there were 30 different skills that were just flat-out what they were, no alterations, and 4 attributes to put points into, that's it... where's the huge fucking difference? There isn't one, so nothing is anything "dumbed down".

The only difference with D3 is that your attributes level as you do, but you have the option to alter every single skill into something possibly radically different.

Not being able to put points into specific skills simply to make them stronger also is not a big deal, as the power of skills also levels as you do, and I don't see that as an issue either. What... just because you cant specifically up the power of a hammer swing or your ice orb specifically, "dumbs-down" a game!?

Who gives a shit that it's "radically different" than D2? Which it's not, in totality... I don't want the same god damn game! I played D2 for 5+ years online. Something different is a welcomed change. It doesn't mean it's "not Diablo", for fucks sake. What is with you people and always making comparisons like this!? If you want D2, then go re-skin the entirety of D2, play that and shut the hell up.

And people need to stop with the level cap shit in every damn game... it's just a fucking number... 60, 80, 956... it makes not god damn difference. In the end, it all works out the same, because it's tailored different for every game! So level 60 in one game would be equal to level 3,409 in another game, since devs will spread out how much power, points etc. you gain at every level.

So much fucking whining over nothing. Just enjoy the damn game for what it is. They've done a good job with interesting skill variations and visually the game, especially the skill effects, look fantastic, as do the different effects they have on combat.

If you want to crunch numbers all damn day, become a fucking accountant and leaving gaming for gamers.

I think were all over the fact that you cant allocate skill points. The major gripe now is the inability to unlock your action bars (yes elective mode does not work) and mouse buttons.

Eliminating the players ability to play how they want to play is a big no no as far as I'm concerned, but some people would rather roll over and bend to Blizzards will.

 

[Katalysis]

There are 7 different Runestones for every skill, so that's essentially 175 different skills for every character, 6 skill slots, to be used in any combination you so chose, and you can choose Elective Mode in order to do just that, and take any skills for any combination you want. So, 175 different skills to choose from, multiplied by six skill slots, is 1,050 possible different builds with skills alone, and that's not counting how much variation will be added by using different gear.

This is total bullshit and if you were in the beta you would know it. New runes make base skills and many runed skills totally obsolete. They are not just variations on a build; they are more powerful skills that everyone will switch to most of the time.

Are you really going to use the base skill over the rune that just increases its range with no tradeoff? I feel like we've been sold a bill of goods on the whole runs system.