Dell U2410

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Xcelerate, Aug 6, 2009.

  1. PatK

    PatK Limp Gawd

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    Just to start off with a nice post, before I get into the not-so-nice tint issues of the U2410..

    Activating tests mode on the U2410..
    Make the Touch Sensor (AKA Exit) button light up (You don't have to press it, just have it light up)
    Now press and hold where the Menu and Preset Modes buttons are for 3 seconds..
    You've now activated a U2410 test mode

    Use Menu to cycle grey, red, green, blue, and white screens. Menu again exits.
    It's kind of similar to the LCD conditioning mode you can enable from the menu, except with grey, and without any writing.

    The second test mode allows you to access a more complete "Innolux" factory menu
    Power off the screen, hold the Brightness/Contrast button and menu buttons, whilst doing so press power.
    When the screen switches on wait for all the lights to come on, when it does this press the Preset Modes button..
    You should now see the blue factory menu to the left of the screen..

    Perhaps there are some other button combinations waiting to be found, but it's hard enough to get it to do anything even knowing which buttons to push thanks to the capacitive buttons!
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2009
  2. PatK

    PatK Limp Gawd

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    Here's a copy of my post made on the Dell forum. I have had four of these screens. 1 had a dead pixel, 1 a lit pixel, and 2 have had the tint issues.. to save me typing it all over again, this is what I've written on the Dell forum..

    1. The initial screen had a dead red pixel. It had no tint issue, but I was unhappy about a dead pixel smack bang in the middle of my screen.
    2. The Dell replacement had massive uniformity issues related to green and pink tint. I can't stress enough how bad the screen was. (Photo below)

    At this stage, being somewhat concerned about the quality of Dells replacements, I opted to return the original screen for a refund and try again with a completely new order.

    3. Screen three has milder tint issues, but they're still visible as mostly pinkish tint (with some green) at the bottom left, and a largely blue-ish tint in the top right. This blue tint makes the top right slightly darker in appearance than the bottom right. (Photo below)

    4. Dells FOURTH U2410 arrived today, and this one is free of tint issue! Horray.. Except it has a dead green lit pixel on the bottom left of the screen. Wonderful.

    Note that due to the nature of the tint, and the difficulty of photographing it clearly on white backgrounds, I took an image of the U2410 (viewing a maximized notepad document) and then boosted the saturation to +88 in Photoshop to emphasize the colour difference. NO other aspect of the image was altered. Part of this also boosts the natural tint present in the colour temperature of the camera/screen and imparts this on the image. However it clearly shows the type of issue people are experiencing on a white background.

    Screen number 2 (Green tint bottom left, pink tint top right)
    [​IMG]

    Screen Number 3 (green/red tint bottom left, blue tint top right)
    [​IMG]

    Now, just for reference purposes, Screen 1, which was free of noticeable tint uniformity issues (but did have a dead red pixel in the middle) altered using the exact same process as the screens above. (note the slight blue down the right side is largely down to the angle of the screen to the camera, causing it to be darker, and didn't really manifest as very noticeable tint in person)
    [​IMG]

    The question I've asked Dell is, is it too much to ask of Dell that I don't get a new U2410 that doesn't have tint issues, or dead, or lit pixels? Because I've given Dell not one, not two, not three, but FOUR chances, and so far the answer is yes - this is too much to ask of Dell and their U2410.

    The icing on the cake is, if I want to fix the clear black level/dither issues Adobe/SRGB mode has, I must inflict this stressful panel lottery process on myself again. I was reporting the sRGB/Adobe mode issue several weeks ago elsewhere btw, but I should have probably have posted about that on the Dell forum..
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2009
  3. PatK

    PatK Limp Gawd

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    Also, for those wondering/asking, NO the Windows 7 final RTM does not solve the "59Hz bug". Even if you install the monitor driver from the CD, to indentify the U2410, it still reports as 59Hz.

    Also, the Windows 7 desktop is still not colour managed, which means that this monitor will present the usual wide gamut issues.. Here's an example of the U2410 in Adobe mode and then sRGB mode, with Photoshop (which is a colour managed application) open, and the same image used as the Windows desktop background.
    Adobe Mode
    [​IMG]

    And now sRGB mode..
    [​IMG]

    Even using sRGB mode there's still some red tint visible, although it does help the problem to a degree.. Whilst giving you some lovely dither issues (easily visible on all dark images, not just the Lagom black level test) in the process.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2009
  4. Steve-2

    Steve-2 n00b

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    Thanks to everyon for their responses. PatK - I'm looking at your Screen 1 and that is closest to what I'm seeing on my monitor. In your Screen 1 picture it appears - to me - that there is a slight shift from purple to blue in the right 1/6th of the screen. It is uniform top-to-bottom. This shot captures the order of difference I'm seeing on a gray or white screen (green-to-pink). As for another opinion, my wife agrees that she can see a difference but thinks that it's too minor to be important. Since I'm otherwise quite happy with this monitor: no dead/stuck pixels, no buzzing, no other uniformity issues beyond the green-to-pink I've described, I'll try living with it for a week or two.
     
  5. PatK

    PatK Limp Gawd

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    Yes - note the slight angle the image 1 is taken at compared to the others. This probably influenced this slightly, as that edge would be darker. However, in person, I didn't notice any tint issue with this screen. I would retake the image but it's long gone.. :) Keep in mind no screen will be perfect, I just want one where I don't notice it during normal usage!

    There are, undoubtedly, different levels of severity. FWIW others could spot my tint issue too, and those boosted screens simply confirm what I could already see with my own eyes on white backgrounds.

    Most people are happy to live with TN panels too. Are you most people? If it bugs you then don't put up with it. There ARE U2410's out there which don't have this issue - I should know, I've had 2 of them, albeit one with a dead red, and one with a lit green pixel..
     
  6. polonyc2

    polonyc2 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    that looks pretty nice...nice blacks as well...is that a calibrated screen or are you using one of the presets?

    it's come down to the Dell U2410, HP LP2475W and the NEC LCD2490WUXi for me...and I'm still undecided between the 3

    can someone offer me some advice on the best of those 3...I am mostly going to be using it for gaming (mostly single player FPS games like Crysis, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Clear Sky, Bioshock etc) along with internet surfing and word processing software (Office 2007)

    the Dell U2410 seems like a great deal but the wide gamut aspect worries me a bit...the HP has amazing black levels but I'm worried about overall performance...the NEC worries me in terms of input lag, response time and overall gaming performance...can someone offer me some good advice...I really want to buy this week...Thanks
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2009
  7. Ankle

    Ankle Gawd

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    Thanks for saving me the hassle of purchasing and returning one of these. After seeing the sRGB mode image I am definitely not touching the u2410 unless a firmware update addresses it. :|
     
  8. PatK

    PatK Limp Gawd

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    Ok, because I currently have 2 U2410 screens here, one with tint uniformity issues, one replacement without (but with a lit green pixel), I've photographed them side by side.
    Can you guess which is which? ;)

    Note that I've again boosted Saturation by +88 in Photoshop to boost colours and make the issue more visible. Of special note is the fact that both screens are using identical 50/50 brightness/contrast settings Under Standard Mode. I've also allowed some of the bezel into the picture just so you can see the level of noise introduced by the boosting process. I also tried to take the picture as close to the middle of the screens as possible so as not to introduce further distortion due to IPS viewing angles etc.

    Screen without noticeable tint uniformity issues is on the left, the one with tint uniformity issues (red tint bottom left, blue top right) is on the right.
    [​IMG]
     
  9. umaneko

    umaneko n00b

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    Thank you so much, my U2410 are now back to it should be when viewing photos.

    Do you have time to profiling the AdobeRGB mode?
     
  10. webbyboy

    webbyboy n00b

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    How to make your screen to make the issue more visible? Any step by step guide? :D
     
  11. housecat

    housecat Gawd

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    Wow.. screen shots like that and people are still buying this thing in droves ?
     
  12. PatK

    PatK Limp Gawd

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    It's a very good screen - if you can avoid one with major tint issues. The wide gamut problems will be present in every screen with a wide gamut, and this will only become more of an issue because software like Windows hasn't bothered to keep pace with the developments of screen technology in recent years. If you switch to custom mode it's easy to dial down the saturation to taste, and you'd probably be perfectly happy with it in that regard. Gaming wise the ghosting performance is excellent, and the input lag is extremely usable even for fast FPS games.

    Of course, it sucks that the Adobe/SRGB mode has a grainy look, but it seems a fix for that is in the pipeline, and I'm perfectly happy using custom mode personally, so I don't really care about it that much.

    My only concern is with the 2 screens I've had with very poor uniformity tint problems. I've also had 2 without the tint, but had the extreme bad luck of having dead and lit pixels on those. Right now I don't want to go through the stress of dealing with more exchanges in a seemingly endless panel lottery to get one free of tint and dead pixels. I hope, and trust, that my experience is not typical.. But think of it this way - I wouldn't have put myself through this trouble if I wasn't otherwise extremely happy with these screens..
     
  13. telejeff

    telejeff n00b

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    You mentioned windows has not kept pace with developments in screen technology and it got me thinking has OS X? Is that why graphic designers tend to use macs (outside the mac ideology among "creative professionals". I'm not bashing...full disclosure: I am mac user)? Do you think there mac users might have a better experience in terms of managing color with the U2410?

    I apologize if that sounds like a dumb question that appears to claim Mac color > Windows color, but I just was curious since you mentioned Windows has not kept up with the trends.
     
  14. PatK

    PatK Limp Gawd

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    I'll let people with more experience using OSX speak on that topic. However, to be clear, Windows 7 does apparently ship with wide gamut support under the hood - The problem is it seems they didn't bother to enable it on the desktop! About the only Microsoft product with wide gamut support is the MS Photo viewer, although there's 3rd party apps (like Firefox too).
     
  15. bennyboy

    bennyboy n00b

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    Since originally posting about the black dithering issue encountered in sRGB and aRGB modes, I have finally found a monitor that I will keep. My first monitor had bad color tinting issues and backlight bleed, my second monitor had a slight color tinting issue and one dead pixel and one stuck pixel. My third monitor was perfectly uniform (no color tinting), had no backlight bleed, and no dead/stuck pixels. So it is possible to find 'the perfect one'.

    Every u2410 has the dithering issue, but at this point its not a problem for me, as I rarely use the affected modes. I was able to calibrate the monitor in the 'Standard' mode to be extremely color accurate. Refer to the TFTCentral review is you want to see the results of doing this.

    As far as color management in OS X vs Windows: OS X is almost completely a color managed space. Most every default OS X application, including the desktop, is color managed. As it has been for several years. Of course on either platform, color critical applications (like Photoshop, etc.) are color managed.

    After finally receiving a monitor without issues I would say this is the best monitor I have ever used. My past monitors include a few generations of ACDs, a variety of TN panels, 2408wfp, and some other IPS panels. I have seen a wide variety of quality panels, and this one is the best overall, so far.
     
  16. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    The support in Windows7 is the same as in Vista, which is only marginally different than XP.

    In all cases you need applications that are color aware that will read your calibration profile if you have one.

    Thus if you don't like things looking strange(oversaturated, hues off a bit) in most of your application, wide gamut monitors are still a PITA. Which is why there is so much interest in the U2410 and it's sRGB mode which is supposed to be half decent.
     
  17. webbyboy

    webbyboy n00b

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    Maybe can you share some info about your monitor?

    PPID:
    Mfg Date:
    Rev:
     
  18. fartq

    fartq Limp Gawd

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    second unit is going back for color uniformity. opted for a refund. don't feel like wasting time on several more returns. it's clear that lower grade LG panels are simply worse than they used to be.
     
  19. Foxpt

    Foxpt n00b

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    The U2410f it's Factory Calibrated.
    On that's photo I used an Preset "Game" and brightness changed to 5. Only because i don't like to much brightness.
     
  20. kwatch

    kwatch [H]Lite

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    Do you have other 24" LCD in your mind? I'm not 100% satisfied wtih mine due to color uniformity. I'm using 2nd replacement.
     
  21. Mastakill

    Mastakill Limp Gawd

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    hi all,

    I'm having trouble getting my u2410 to work together with my Panasonic G10 Plasma...

    This is my setup:

    WinXP 32bit
    XFX GForce 6600GT with 2x DVI
    U2410 attached via DVI
    Panasonic G10 Plasma via DVI to HDMI Adapter + HDMI cable

    All the below is with the Plasma not powered on, it is only attached via HDMI and is in sleep mode

    As soon as I attach both, things start getting very weird...
    Some times the U2410 doesn't show any image (stays in sleeping mode) during the POST (low resolution), but does show image in windows (I've seen both lower resolution and native resolution)
    Some times the U2410 shows image during the POST (low resolution), but doesn't show any image (sleeping) in Windows (while I only rebooted!)
    And some times the U2410 shows no image at all (sleeping), both during POST and in Windows.
    The only solution to get it working again so far seems to detach the Plasma and re-attach my ancient broke CRT...

    when the problems started I uninstalled the nvidia drivers, rebooted and installed the latest version (all using CRT, since the U2410 refused to come out of sleep)

    does anyone have any suggestion to get both working smoothly and continuously?

    edit:
    just figured out that switching the Dell and Pana from DVI ports does the trick... for now...
    Hope that this is a final fix...
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2009
  22. fartq

    fartq Limp Gawd

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    for color-critical i think it's 2490 SV or bust. for gaming/other consumer uses i'd get a cheaper 2408 at this point. right now i'm just going to stick with my lp2065
     
  23. 2string

    2string n00b

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    I am thinking of getting this monitor NEC 2490WUXi. If I get a good U2410 with no issues will the NEC still out perform and look better then the DELL
     
  24. Markdek

    Markdek [H]ard|Gawd

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    Switch the DVI ports on the vid card, and ensure that the monitor, not the tv, is the primary display. Some vid cards like to have the primary monitor on the primary dvi port.
     
  25. Northbridge

    Northbridge Limp Gawd

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    Can someone post a visual comparison of the colors in game mode and sRGB? I'm just wondering how noticeable the difference is.
     
  26. Jodiuh

    Jodiuh [H]ardness Supreme

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    Just imagine viewing the screen with Cyclops glasses and you'll have a good idea what game mode does to my 2410. :)
     
  27. yimingwuzere

    yimingwuzere Gawd

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    Just picked up the monitor, ran calibration test on it, all's superb except greys and blacks.

    BTW, having issues with the builtin card reader. USB ports work fine, but SD cards I plug in don't show up on Explorer. Any ideas?
     
  28. polonyc2

    polonyc2 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    that's a pretty big deal though...greys and blacks are critical...especially in gaming...I can't imagine playing Batman: Arkham Asylum on an LCD...the game is so rich in blacks...along with a lot of other games such as BioShock, S.T.A.L.K.E.R. etc
     
  29. rberger

    rberger n00b

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    I returned my U2410 to Dell for a refund. I can't say enough good things about their customer service with this process. Dell offered to have UPS pick up my monitor, but agreed to just send me a return shipping label because I prefer to drop off a package at UPS rather than hope to connect with UPS at home for a pick up.

    I got a follow-up e-mail every day from Dell. I gave them my return tracking number and Dell sent me an e-mail saying they expected delivery from UPS tomorrow. I just checked my credit card tonight and my account has been credited with a refund already ... and Dell doesn't even have the monitor yet!

    When you call for a return authorization Dell will try to first steer you into talking with tech support, but I just declined this 'opportunity'.

    Overall, very courteous and efficient ... even though my customer service contact was in the Phillippines and I'm in the USA.

    I had one of the better samples of the U2410 but I still found the non-uniformity of white or light colored backgrounds too distracting when web surfing or using productivity applications. I decided not to bother with getting a replacement because I think I've already seen one of the best ones. I tried a replacement 2209WA and it was worse than the first one.

    Those reporting getting a perfect U2410 ... I admire your persistence. You're very fortunate.
     
  30. yimingwuzere

    yimingwuzere Gawd

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    Didn't seem like a big deal to me though. The only things I can get that would look better at black levels and wouldn't cost 10* as much as this are CRTs.

    I can't see why this would not be awesome for gaming, I'm playing RE5 on it and so far it looks awesome even on a puny 8800gt. Haven't got Arkham Asylum though, gonna pick it up soon.
     
  31. Jodiuh

    Jodiuh [H]ardness Supreme

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    Agreed, there's definitely more black detail in Batman than on my 2007 S-IPS. Are you using the gamepad or the mouse in RE5? I just started it and can't decide. :-( Mouse headshots are awesome, but then I can't lazy back in my recliner.
     
  32. yimingwuzere

    yimingwuzere Gawd

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    Mouse and keyboard, still using cheapo mouse and keyboard from my old P4 Northwood system :(

    Splurged all the cash on the U2410 first, since I have a backlog of 1080p videos to watch I decided to get the monitor first instead.

    I found it hard to play the game without using max mouse sensitivity though, since you can't shoot on the move, and your character behaves like a FPS sniper standing up while aiming (takes forever to turn, can't even hold a pistol without swaying, etc.)
     
  33. TheBlueChanell

    TheBlueChanell [H]ardness Supreme

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    Sounds like you never played RE4. It behaves the same and is better suited to a pad. Pick-up a wired 360 controller.

    Also, before I get flamed for this, it's okay to use a gamepad for PC gaming as long as the game you're playing is better suited to it i.e RE5,SF4, Halo, Batman, Dirt/Grid....
     
  34. yimingwuzere

    yimingwuzere Gawd

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    I did play a bit of RE1/3/4 on consoles and endured a nightmare on RE4 PC version. I find it artificially limiting that the newer games are more action oriented and yet you still can't run and gun.

    Add Prototype to the list of gamepad games though, some combos are near-impossible to execute via keyboard alone for me.
     
  35. Perzk

    Perzk n00b

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    I have been having problem calibrating my U2410 with my Spyder3 Elite. My starting point is sRGB profile on the monitor, but it seems to be above 7000 degrees in temp. Should I wory about this?

    Also brightness is turned down to 20-25 to get 120 in measured brightness, but black is 0.29.

    I tried calibrating using standard profile but here I could not get black below 0.30.

    I would like to hear what settings your have after calibration.
     
  36. 10e

    10e 2[H]4U

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    Turn the brightness down further and re-calibrate or re-measure the black level. If the black level brightness goes down according to the Spyder3 colorimeter, then you rule out the colorimeter as being the problem. If not, then the colorimeter is not correctly detecting black levels. This was a known issue with the Spyder2 colorimeter, but not sure about Spyder3, though I've heard it still can be an issue.
     
  37. Perzk

    Perzk n00b

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    The black level does go down slightly when lowering but the lowest I got with 120 brightnes was 0.27.
     
  38. polonyc2

    polonyc2 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I heard that the HP LP2475W has the best black levels of any LCD
     
  39. hmz

    hmz 2[H]4U

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    So without reading it all, is this U2410 better than my 3 years old S-IPS 2007WFP?
     
  40. 10e

    10e 2[H]4U

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    I believe it has some of the best black levels for any IPS panel, though I've gotten .15 cdm/2 on my Dell 2209WA which is almost as good, but there can be variances between panels and testing methods. Either level is quite good for a desktop LCD monitor. The HP I believe can go down to close to that (from memory). According to TFT central at 0 brightness they measured .13 cdm/2 on the LP2475W.

    The best black levels on LCD are S-PVA panels. The Dell 2408WFP and 2709W have black levels approaching 0.10 cdm/2, and the Samsung F2380 was tested to go down to like .06 cdm/2 which is incredible for a desktop LCD.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2009