Civilization 6 benchmarks

[Ieldra]

They probably put their emphasis on dx12.

And DX12 didn't show up on launch day, as it should have.

What next ? Another game in which DX12 is promised and instead of a badly performing DX11 build for AMD you get nothing at all ? "Sorry, this game is DX11 only, please wait for DX12".

Wtf?

And btw, as if high fps matters in Civ games, its latency and breadth of the world space.

We're talking 30 FPS when the map gets crowded. Are you really going to try to argue that this is just dandy ?

 

[thesmokingman]

And DX12 didn't show up on launch day, as it should have.

What next ? Another game in which DX12 is promised and instead of a badly performing DX11 build for AMD you get nothing at all ? "Sorry, this game is DX11 only, please wait for DX12".

Wtf?



We're talking 30 FPS when the map gets crowded. Are you really going to try to argue that this is just dandy ?

Why you like to fight with your trollish talk all the time?

 

[SighTurtle]

AMD drivers suck for DX11 and it always did. AMD DX12 bench in this game will be < than Nvidia DX11 and Nvidia DX12 will be slightly higher than Nvidia DX11 or equal. Entire point of DX12 is that it is the biggest business mimic Microsoft did just to force people to upgrade to shit called Windows 10. If you are a gamer, stay on Windows 7 because it is better OS and DX12 doesn't bring a squat compared to DX11 in term of performance or quality.

Those Xbox ported games are starting to out in force, I expect them to turn the tide soon.

 

[razor1]

Another thread that went to shit because of not using logical arguments? Civ VI is heavy on CPU usage, AMD is going to have HUGE AMOUNTS OF TROUBLE in DX11, because of their CPU driver overhead. This is a game evolved title but the problem is unlike a FPS, its very hard to reduce CPU usage in an RTS, too many things going on at once and not just stuff on the screen. So all ya guys that think its because its a gameworks title and or don't know software development, which I can see alot of them, not going to point you guys out, because its easy to see who those people are, please don't let the door hit you on the way out, because its getting tiresome with stupid comments with no factual basis or even an understanding how things are done in the REAL WORLD with software development.

Is that hard for anyone to understand? Wait for it........

DX12 will help AMD equalize the playing field, for what ever reason, it is delayed, this isn't due to "lack of programmers'" their budget has increased form last quarter for RTG, so most likely technical difficult, more to point they NEED more time, another screw up like we saw with BF1 is not what AMD wants let alone what the game dev wants.

If you guys think you follow these companies and think you know what is going on (both from development and from hardware side), man sorry but go back to playing games and stop taking about these companies on forums, because you guys don't know shit how these businesses are run. Mom and pop stores aren't even run the way you guys talk about, let alone multi billion dollar companies.

 

[Algrim]

Without commenting on all the slinging going on, I've enjoyed playing almost every CIV game released and was planning on skipping this one because of the art direction. Now that I know a bit more about the game I may just have to get it...

 

[Bowman15]

Why you like to fight with your trollish talk all the time?

He conveniently forgets AMD is not actually programming the game and has no control over when the DX12 code will come. But hey, lets not let facts get in the way of a good troll post!

 

[razor1]

He conveniently forgets AMD is not actually programming the game and has no control over when the DX12 code will come. But hey, lets not let facts get in the way of a good troll post!

You don't know how these marketing deals work, they have quite a bit of control, this is because there is an agreement/contract in place, but both parties have certain amount of control and commitment on their part. So yeah you don't know shit. If the contract didn't give said control to the parties, how do they plan for the co marketing launches, and events and what not? Only people that never dealt with contracts before would make a statement like you just did.

 

[Ieldra]

Why you like to fight with your trollish talk all the time?

This is like blaming the guy tapping his feet for a structurally unsound building collapsing.

He conveniently forgets AMD is not actually programming the game and has no control over when the DX12 code will come. But hey, lets not let facts get in the way of a good troll post!

Eh. After strolling into the thread and saying some bullshit about gameworks I'd say this is another case of a lump of coal calling the kettle black.

 

[Bowman15]

This is like blaming the guy tapping his feet for a structurally unsound building collapsing.



Eh. After strolling into the thread and saying some bullshit about gameworks I'd say this is another case of a lump of coal calling the kettle black.

Actually I did think it was looking at the benchmarks sparky. Didn't know much about the game's background so I assumed it was and was not just trolling the big bad AMD like you. We all know Nvidia looks great in DX11 games.

 

[razor1]

Actually I did think it was looking at the benchmarks sparky. Didn't know much about the game's background so I assumed it was and was not just trolling the big bad AMD like you. We all know Nvidia looks great in DX11 games.

Well bowman15, you don't know shit about any games, let alone development of those games and possible IHV and dev relations, so go on your marry way.

 

[Ieldra]

Actually I did think it was looking at the benchmarks sparky. Didn't know much about the game's background so I assumed it was and was not just trolling the big bad AMD like you.

So you made a mistake motivated by your own bias, accused me being a troll for correcting you, and now you're doing what exactly? Looking stupid?

We all know NV looks great in DX11 games

but not when they're AMD sponsored look at hitman and deus ex. Especially the built in benchmarks

Since virtually all games are DX11 games you didn't need to specify 'in DX11 games'.

 

[Bowman15]

So you made a mistake motivated by your own bias, accused me being a troll for correcting you, and now you're doing what exactly? Looking stupid?

No, unlike you I think Nivida has great cards and drivers but I think AMD has great hardware and spotty drivers at times but generally good ones. I just don't feel the need to dump on one or the other all the time like some, "cough". Maybe it's time you give it a rest.

 

[Ieldra]

No, unlike you I think Nivida has great cards and drivers but I think AMD has great hardware and spotty drivers at times but generally good ones. I just don't feel the need to dump on one or the other all the time like some, "cough". Maybe it's time you give it a rest.

My sides.

Let me guess....a TWIWMTBP game with gameworks.

 

[Bowman15]

My sides.

LOL

Let me guess....a TWIWMTBP game with gameworks.

Yes and or so???????????

 

[Ieldra]

Well bowman15, you don't know shit about any games, let alone development of those games and possible IHV and dev relations, so go on your marry way.

Well... I was just informed that the geometry engine and rasterizer come in to play at the end of render pipeline, and that GCN does not have a low geometry bottleneck, only a problem with tessellation.

I think I've had my fill for the day.

 

[razor1]

well actually just more info on that, if you have high geometry it will bottleneck GCN just like tessellation would too, but you need to get to around 20 million polys per screen.

Most games right now use 5 million at max, but 20 million for next gen games will become normal quite fast since the update consoles can handle that much. Now from a development point of view, doing the art assets like this (which right now for lower level lods we use polygon crunching programs, which aren't very accurate but when the models are further away we don't need to worry about the lod's accuracy too much) the older console versions we will have to make two LOD's by hand, which is ok, but still more money for the art pipeline.

 

[dragonstongue]

even if AMD helped sort of speak, who has the big $$$$ Intel and Nvidia, both are shaddy as hell, I do not put it past either of them to have "behind the doors meeting" to ensure they get special treatment in optimizations(and hurt AMD in the process because they can) as they can afford to throw $$$ at devs, something AMD can ill afford to do.

Myself I would get CIV6 in a heartbeat for my "ancient" system, even if doesnt play at amazing performance levels(PH 955 clocked at 3.8 and Radeon 7870 usually downclocked and plays everything quite well) any support one can give AMD is a very good thing IMHO(maybe for every copy sold they get some kickbacks?) in my mind, do they work well, and are functional(AMD products) absolutely, DX12 can kiss my ass

 

[Ieldra]

well actually just more info on that, if you have high geometry it will bottleneck GCN just like tessellation would too, but you need to get to around 20 million polys per screen.

Most games right now use 5 million at max, but 20 million for next gen games will become normal quite fast since the update consoles can handle that much. Now from a development point of view, doing the art assets like this (which right now for lower level lods we use polygon crunching programs, which aren't very accurate but when the models are further away we don't need to worry about the lod's accuracy too much) the older console versions we will have to make two LOD's by hand, which is ok, but still more money for the art pipeline.[/QUOTE

Naturally, guy I'm talking to doesn't know that though. Thinks tesselation is some entirely separate thing that lives in a bubble and has its own bottleneck...


With such high poly counts you'll ram headfirst into the rasterizer ceiling, tessellation or not. Wonder if geometry engine will fold first

 

[razor1]

Hmm I think the problem will start showing up in the geometry engine first, haven't looked into where bottleneck is occurring (rasterizer vs geometry engine, but I don't see how the rasterizer by itself will bottleneck without having issues with the geometry engine.

 

[Ieldra]

Hmm I think the problem will start showing up in the geometry engine first, haven't looked into where bottleneck is occurring (rasterizer vs geometry engine, but I don't see how the rasterizer by itself will bottleneck without having issues with the geometry engine.

They should be 1:1 shouldn't they? Worst case scenario some of the polys processed by geometry will be culled and won't be rasterized

 

[razor1]

Yeah it should be 1 to 1.

 

[Ieldra]

AMD drivers suck for DX11 and it always did. AMD DX12 bench in this game will be < than Nvidia DX11 and Nvidia DX12 will be slightly higher than Nvidia DX11 or equal. Entire point of DX12 is that it is the biggest business mimic Microsoft did just to force people to upgrade to shit called Windows 10. If you are a gamer, stay on Windows 7 because it is better OS and DX12 doesn't bring a squat compared to DX11 in term of performance or quality.

I mean, you say this AMD runs DX11 just fine in many, many games. I have no idea if it will end up being better than NV or not. We have seen roles apparently reversed several times in DX12 with NV having significantly more CPU overhead; if you run at 4K (therefore lower(higher) framerates(times)) you have more or less equal performance, whereas at higher fps DX11 is clearly better. Then you have other games where the DX12 build - or Vulkan for that matter, because 99% of the time when people talk about big improvements from AMD it's because of CPU side issues between the driver and GCN frontend (has never been made clear to me what exactly the problem is with either, just speculation no confirmation - build performs better for both IHVs.

The point is DX12 has become a sticker on a box so to speak, publishers probably force it on developer to score marketing points. I vaguely remember posts here about how good Deus Ex and BF1 are gonna be with DX12 on launch - it builds hype, and for what ? DX12 builds that run like ass, that's what. The only game that actually ran relatively fine on launch in DX12 was AotS, then recently GoW.

On one hand you're never going to see 'the true potential" of DX12 until it becomes the primary build, and in that case there will be features that are either hard, unfeasible or impossible to port back to DX11 so it's a big hurdle. That doesn't mean you won't see games that run both seeing improvements in DX12, just that it depends. Battlefield 1 runs just fine on AMD hardware, including CPUs, there's even a primitive discard solution baked into the engine, just for GCN, and lo and behold there are minor, if any, benefits from DX12.

Given the restriction imposed on DX12 by MS; W10 only; I expect to see Vulkan builds more often than DX12

 

[{NG}Fidel]

Well bowman15, you don't know shit about any games, let alone development of those games and possible IHV and dev relations, so go on your marry way.

When did you start making posts like this? Thats beneath you man.

Contract or not I highly doubt that enough control went to AMD where we can sit here and blame AMD for a late DX12 patch for this game. Its on the Dev to make this shit happen. AMD marketing probably has deals and they most likely shared some code or gave input on things within the game engine but I thinks it is categorically untrue to say AMD is on the hook for late DX12.

 

[razor1]

When did you start making posts like this? Thats beneath you man.

Contract or not I highly doubt that enough control went to AMD where we can sit here and blame AMD for a late DX12 patch for this game. Its on the Dev to make this shit happen. AMD marketing probably has deals and they most likely shared some code or gave input on things within the game engine but I thinks it is categorically untrue to say AMD is on the hook for late DX12.

There is no blame on AMD there, the delay happened for what ever reason. yeah well tell that to everyone here that just talks crap without any understanding of what they are talking about, kinda get sick of it when people are making things up because of their active imagination and delusions.

 

[{NG}Fidel]

There is no blame on AMD there, the delay happened for what ever reason. yeah well tell that to everyone here that just talks crap without any understanding of what they are talking about, kinda get sick of it when people are making things up because of their active imagination and delusions.

No doubt,I do get frustrated as well. But come on, we are above that. And mocking and insulting which some other members do almost constantly isn't the way to impart new information.

 

[Bowman15]

When did you start making posts like this? Thats beneath you man.

Contract or not I highly doubt that enough control went to AMD where we can sit here and blame AMD for a late DX12 patch for this game. Its on the Dev to make this shit happen. AMD marketing probably has deals and they most likely shared some code or gave input on things within the game engine but I thinks it is categorically untrue to say AMD is on the hook for late DX12.

No offense but look at the join date. Since day one. I just don't understand the constant belittling or hate for one side or the other. Do we want only one vendor to chose from? I'd gather most of the posters here bitching about AMD don't have the game and or an AMD card and are claiming some magical number on a chart is not good enough.

 

[{NG}Fidel]

No offense but look at the join date. Since day one. I just don't understand the constant belittling or hate for one side or the other. Do we want only one vendor to chose from? I'd gather most of the posters here bitching about AMD don't have the game and or an AMD card and are claiming some magical number on a chart is not good enough.

I trust Razor1

 

[RAutrey]

No offense but look at the join date. Since day one. I just don't understand the constant belittling or hate for one side or the other. Do we want only one vendor to chose from? I'd gather most of the posters here bitching about AMD don't have the game and or an AMD card and are claiming some magical number on a chart is not good enough.

It's arguing for the sake of arguing and it's getting really fucking old. It's the usual suspects. The thing is it's a shame to me because these usual suspects by far and large pretty sharp cats. The problem is that gets lost because of their arrogance and condescension and I believe it adversely impacts forum membership and participation.

 

[RAutrey]

Anyway hope AMD has decent DX12 performance in this title once implemented.

 

[OutOfPhase]

No offense but look at the join date. Since day one. I just don't understand the constant belittling or hate for one side or the other. Do we want only one vendor to chose from? I'd gather most of the posters here bitching about AMD don't have the game and or an AMD card and are claiming some magical number on a chart is not good enough.

Belittling isn't good, but to answer what do we want...

We want AMD to produce good hardware (generally they do) and good drivers (all over the place) to have an overall solution which is competitive. We want people to stop being apologists for either company. I'd love for AMD to hit another 9700/9800 homer! They aren't doing that, and are getting called on it.

"Bitching" is precisely because we DON'T want a one horse race.

 

[razor1]

exactly we are not going to sit here and say everything is OK at AMD when they are clearly not running in the same race as nV is. Its like saying its ok to be out of a race when you only have 2 people running....

 

[Rizen]

Okay we get it, the game runs badly on AMD.

Meanwhile on my Titan X I am getting close to max 144fps at 2560x1440 with all in game effects enabled. Fun game so far!

 

[razor1]

Just got it dling it now, probably won't play it till tomorrow.

 

[Shogon]

Let me guess....a TWIWMTBP game with gameworks.

Buckets to 11.

Hopefully dx12 is something useful when it arrives for this game. Can't say dx12 / 64bit has helped the total war series as much as I wish it did.

 

[Shintai]

Buckets to 11.

Hopefully dx12 is something useful when it arrives for this game. Can't say dx12 / 64bit has helped the total war series as much as I wish it did.

It did 0 for Total War Warhammer, just as CPU limited and same performance as always

 

[razor1]

well for RTS the limiting factor is going to be CPU's so depending on how well the engine handles multithreading, its going to come down to that.

 

[Shogon]

It did 0 for Total War Warhammer, just as CPU limited and same performance as always

Indeed. It made me sad to see these so called improvements rarely improve on anything. But hey, at least units collide better yeah?

They just need a new damned engine. Then again SEGA is CA's overlord now, and DLC is more important than upgrading a 32bit, dx11 "modularized" engine to a true 64 bit and dx12 based engine. Granted it's expensive as hell I imagine to make a new one, but coasting on an old engine forever is only limiting what they can do to make their game even better.

 

[Ieldra]

No offense but look at the join date. Since day one. I just don't understand the constant belittling or hate for one side or the other. Do we want only one vendor to chose from? I'd gather most of the posters here bitching about AMD don't have the game and or an AMD card and are claiming some magical number on a chart is not good enough.

No offense but look at the join date. Since day one. I just don't understand the constant belittling or hate for one side or the other. Do we want only one vendor to chose from?

How are join dates relevant? Let's stop beating around the bush here, whenever AMD performs badly you (and others) automatically assume NV is somehow involved in some kind of sabotage - and this is without even checking if they're involved in the development in an 'above normal' capacity.

So yes, I think asking why there is hate for one company or the other is very relevant, perhaps some introspection would help?

I'd gather most of the posters here bitching about AMD don't have the game and or an AMD card and are claiming some magical number on a chart is not good enough.

You don't need an AMD card to discuss benchmarks, and I would argue a major contributing factor to the dearth of AMD card owners is performance results like these.

These are not magical numbers bowman, these are the exact same kind of numbers you would be using to laud AMD for running well if the roles were reversed.

These are *averages*. This means you get ~30fps in crowded scenes, and this is confirmed by multiple posts both on reddit and on the steam forums.

It runs badly. Pretending it doesn't helps nobody, especially not AMD.

 

[chenw]

How the hell is Fury X performing THIS badly?

AMD didn't do this badly with Beyond Earth (290x was still better than 970 for example), but somehow they just... disintegrated?

Sometimes I wonder if AMD's "works better in DX12" feels more like "works only in DX12"...

 

[OutOfPhase]

Luckily, this is a turn based strategy game. So while it's annoying and crappy the FPS isn't where it could/should be, it also doesn't affect gameplay really at all. Sure, I'd like to see Cleopatra's rear end reflecting in the waves of the ocean too, but I can live without it.

It's just depressing this stuff continues to happen. I hate that all of us that predicted this low-level API hype was fraught with peril were completely correct. It's the exception that a DX12 title works well.