Civilization 6 benchmarks

[Bowman15]

I trust Razor1

I don't, that's why I have him on ignore. He dumps on AMD in other website forums as well.

FYI: that means I haven't been following his posts if he's replying in this thread so my point is from previous history.

 

[{NG}Fidel]

I don't, that's why I have him on ignore. He dumps on AMD in other websitee forums as well.

FYI: that means I haven't been following his posts if he's replying in this thread so my point is from previous history.

I at one point, years ago i must add, felt that way. He's more than proven he isn't like that in my opinion. Either way he's not the subject of the thread. Let's stay on topic

 

[Bowman15]

I at one point, years ago i must add, felt that way. He's more than proven he isn't like that in my opinion. Either way he's not the subject of the thread. Let's stay on topic

From watching game play I still can't figure out why this game from a graphics stand point doesn't run well on every video card? Like 200fps level. Maybe tessellation, physics, AI?????

 

[razor1]

From watching game play I still can't figure out why this game from a graphics stand point doesn't run well on every video card? Like 200fps level. Maybe tessellation, physics, AI?????

Purely because of what I stated, that is why it doesn't run at what you think it should be running at.

As I stated you don't know anything about game design yet you assume you do and post as if you do lol. If you look back at any DX11 RTS's you will see the same thing, they are heavily CPU bound, what does that mean for AMD's CPU overhead, logic dictates it will hurt AMD cards more.

Because you put me on ignore, that is why you will stay ignorant to the facts that are available to you and everyone can see with your current post how ignorant you really are. Doesn't matter how many people will tell you the same thing I just did, because you don't care to listen or even learn basic concepts of game design before you talk about what they are doing to the hardware and drivers.

And Bowman I know where you are from, Rage3d/xtremesystems.org, yeah you don't know anything about what you talk about, so I'm going to say what feel about people who posts crap that is totally to the contrary of what is actually happening. An idiot only shows their true idiocy when they open up their mouth, and you do it way to many times to just be coincidence instead of pushing your agenda without even basic concerns you are wrong.

I'm going to link to something you posted years ago from xtremesystem.org forum

GPU battle takes toll on NVIDIA

Their chips cost more to manufacture, they use more RAM chips, they need more traces for their larger memory bus, they need more traces for more RAM, they need better, more expensive coolers, more expensive power circuitry..

And they need to compete with the 4 series. I guess they expected a repeat of R600 so they could rest on their laurels and release another G80 rehash, this time with almost twice the shaders. Guess it didn't cut it.

Let's hope they burn themselves as badly as they did on the FX series, maybe we'll see something new for once (and maybe enough red market share to see some tesselation and DX10.1).

This is your mentality, while all of us want better hardware you want nV to fail lol, so AMD catches up, WTF is that? You think that is good for the industry when you want a company to fail so other one can do better, or you want both companies to do better? And even at that point you didn't understand why tessellation didn't work with DX10 well same old Bowman, just a naive gamer who really has no understanding of anything he posts about. Should I post all the links from techpowerup forums, Rage, and few others were your posts mimic this one? Do you remember the posts you did about g92 and g80 when you thought nV dropped the g80 driver support? Which nV never dropped the driver support just didn't do further optimizations for them?

 

[Ieldra]

Luckily, this is a turn based strategy game. So while it's annoying and crappy the FPS isn't where it could/should be, it also doesn't affect gameplay really at all. Sure, I'd like to see Cleopatra's rear end reflecting in the waves of the ocean too, but I can live without it.

It's just depressing this stuff continues to happen. I hate that all of us that predicted this low-level API hype was fraught with peril were completely correct. It's the exception that a DX12 title works well.

I agree with this, just wanted to point out this particular game is still dx11 only as of now.

I frankly don't see how a DX12 could possibly run worse than this for amd , so there will very likely be improvements, relative to this build that doesn't run well.

So does this build not run well because they were focusing on DX12, or are they focusing on DX12 because this runs badly?

Has anyone benchmarked with lower msaa on an amd card? Just to be sure, it really looks like a cpu side issue anyway

 

[Ieldra]

Actually I'll test this evening, I'll drop MSAA and test 1080p through to 5K and see what's what. This game definitely isn't graphically demanding. Tesselation wouldn't make it graphically demanding either imo considering how small most things are in screen space.
All of that would be culled by a sane gpu architecture

 

[lolfail9001]

I'm going to link to something you posted years ago from xtremesystem.org forum

Well, that's gold.

Anyways, why is anyone really surprised about how Civ turned out GPU-wise?

Look no further than this AotS thing, in Dx11 AMD cards crash and burn just as well.

And yes, expect posts about 100% Dx12 gains [on AMD, cough] over at /r/AMD when patch is out.

 

[razor1]

Well, that's gold.

Anyways, why is anyone really surprised about how Civ turned out GPU-wise?

Look no further than this AotS thing, in Dx11 AMD cards crash and burn just as well.

And yes, expect posts about 100% Dx12 gains [on AMD, cough] over at /r/AMD when patch is out.

Well Bowman just doesn't remember what he posts, but not everyone is as forgettable as he is lol.

Yeah prefect example is AOTS!

 

[Ieldra]

Oh my! How the tables have turned! Lol!

bowman, I think the worst decision they made this generation was adding FP64 seperate units instead of more shader power.

They want 1 chip to be used in several cards (Geforce, Tesla, Quadro) but unlike ATI's R6XX the shader units are much less flexible, and the whole architecture is less flexible (512-bit bus = 32 ROPs, no talk and no override, etc)

The fact that you see ATI refining, refining and refining their once also-ran architecture to something that's truly amazing in terms of engineering, is a real testament even when the whole R&D budget went down.

nVidia... I'm sorry I just can't say the same thing. Instead of making 2 chips, one big gamer chip and a mainstream/Tesla GPGPU chip (together), they made 1 instead.

This one was in 2008.

 

[Dayaks]

RIP AMD, at least in my mind.

 

[Gideon]

Your actually complaining about FPS in a CIV game, lol. It's a turned based game not a First Person Shooter so lower frame rates hardly matter at all. At worst scrolling will chug a little which hardly matters that much or the leaders may not animate as smoothly, neither stops you from playing the game just fine. It runs just fine on my 290x with everything turned up at 1080p so I fail to understand how 50 fps or 90 fps mean shit in this game. A first person shooter I could understand the tantrum over it, but a turn based strategy game... get real. Leldra you really got to stop being a obvious troll, perhaps you should play the game and learn to enjoy a good game rather then playing benchmark all day.

 

[SighTurtle]

I don't have Civ 6, but apparently, no team multiplayer atm? Might be unfinished, might be annoying bugs.

 

[razor1]

Your actually complaining about FPS in a CIV game, lol. It's a turned based game not a First Person Shooter so lower frame rates hardly matter at all. At worst scrolling will chug a little which hardly matters that much or the leaders may not animate as smoothly, neither stops you from playing the game just fine. It runs just fine on my 290x with everything turned up at 1080p so I fail to understand how 50 fps or 90 fps mean shit in this game. A first person shooter I could understand the tantrum over it, but a turn based strategy game... get real. Leldra you really got to stop being a obvious troll, perhaps you should play the game and learn to enjoy a good game rather then playing benchmark all day.

LOL another guy that doesn't read, Ieldra never complained about the performance he just pointed out one thing, Bowman's post about the game being gameworks and Boman's post was BS and it was.

This was Ieldra's first post
Civilization 6 benchmarks

he never talked about what you just stated. He did say later on, DX12 path isn't there as it should have on launch and the frame rates get to the point where its getting hard to play with certain settings with DX11, and those settings were more draw calls/more objects etc on the map, so yeah AMD is going to have problems with that, too much CPU overhead. He knew exactly where the problem was coming from AMD's side, for the time being, and if they need DX12 to fix that problem, well that is what AMD has to do,

 

[razor1]

Oh my! How the tables have turned! Lol!



This one was in 2008.

Actually yeah tables of turned on the one chip to rule them all thing lol, but the rest of his post I have no clue what he is talking about, flexibility, no talk and no override? WTF is all that about lol, this is why certain people shouldn't be on the net......just a spew of crap that comes out of people's mouths is crazy. Its like the exorcist......

I would like to introduce at this point every forum should have tests, to show minimum amount of intellectual knowledge before people are allowed to post, and it should be freakin standardized to all forums, blogs, social network based on topics that are being discussed. This should remove the ill equipped people that should be shunned for verbal communication (typed or talked) to begin with from polluting threads or posts.

 

[Shintai]

I don't have Civ 6, but apparently, no team multiplayer atm? Might be unfinished, might be annoying bugs.

They seem to miss a few things. For example the ability to rename cities. That one is coming in the first patch. I haven't experienced any bugs yet, neither are those I play with. A few missing features, sure.

 

[primetime]

LOL another guy that doesn't read, Ieldra never complained about the performance he just pointed out one thing, Bowman's post about the game being gameworks and Boman's post was BS and it was.

This was Ieldra's first post
Civilization 6 benchmarks

he never talked about what you just stated. He did say later on, DX12 path isn't there as it should have on launch and the frame rates get to the point where its getting hard to play with certain settings with DX11, and those settings were more draw calls/more objects etc on the map, so yeah AMD is going to have problems with that, too much CPU overhead. He knew exactly where the problem was coming from AMD's side, for the time being, and if they need DX12 to fix that problem, well that is what AMD has to do,

lol leldras on most of our ignore lists......just saying!

 

[razor1]

lol leldras on most of our ignore lists......just saying!

Well I can name quite a few people that don't even post here anymore because they know I won't give them crack of light to give their dim responses, which actually since they have left we have been able to much better conversations. Iendra isn't one of them, he is much more subdued then I am when responding to posts such as the one you have here and always backs up his point of views. Not only does he back up his view points, if he doesn't know something and wants to post about it, he goes and learns it, unlike most people that we see.

I rarely use the ignore feature and save it for the most inept people. I think I have had maybe 3 people so far that go on and off my ignore list *always* check if they change their posting habits, some do most don't and those people tend to leave anyways because their view points are geared towards one thing or another and that won't happen here at [H].

 

[primetime]

Well I can name quite a few people that don't even post here anymore because they know I won't give them crack of light to give their dim responses, which actually since they have left we have been able to much better conversations. Iendra isn't one of them, he is much more subdued then I am when responding to posts such as the one you have here and always backs up his point of views. Not only does he back up his view points, if he doesn't know something and wants to post about it, he goes and learns it, unlike most people that we see.

I rarely use the ignore feature and save it for the most inept people. I think I have had maybe 3 people so far that go on and off my ignore list *always* check if they change their posting habits, some do most don't and those people tend to leave anyways because their view points are geared towards one thing or another and that won't happen here at [H].

it is what it is.....lol......people say your "slightly biased...idk your at least an invidia fan AND THATS OK! .....but that guy is on my permaban from here on out. (same as Clinton lol) I get the urge to throat punch when i hear some people lol

 

[razor1]

hey I've bitched Iendra out in PM's, but only in the interest of setting him on the right path, he has always taken my criticism constructively, and even corrected me at times, if you can show that he is wrong, he will change his views. And this is what posting about different things and being enthusiasts is all about, we want to know more then just talk about benchmark numbers, we want to know why certain things are happening. Yet as you can see from this thread, and the marketshare thread many people don't think this way and they plainly see what IHV's say as the truth. Just think about this AMD didn't mention anything about Polaris's marketshare figures in their latest Q results lol, what does that mean. Yeah they mentioned it is selling well and all, but why not the numbers? Hmm I think I just predicted they didn't gain marketshare and most likely lost a good deal to come true? Possibly and after their conference call looks to be that way when you look at their numbers. Semi Custom drove their revenue something that looks like its not going to drive numbers next quarter 18% drop is close to the increase they saw in revenue this quarter, pretty much AMD got a boost for their revenue figures because... flat rate contract for finishing up work on console designs for their side of things? This isn't unheard of when contracting work is done and is to be expected.

Only thing AMD has been able to accomplish the past 2 years, is show us Zen is coming, they can't really compete with nV yet gotta wait for Vega on that, and reduce their work force, sell off parts of themselves, and finally take all the speculation on their company based on these things, which drove stock price up and reduce their debt in a very smart way. Business wise yeah they are doing good by reducing their debt, but product wise, they haven't shown anything substantial yet, they need to do this otherwise all that speculation ramp up, is going to come back and haunt them.

I was reading on a financial site about the Alibaba deal with AMD, Alibaba picked up AMD as a partner is what they stated, Alibaba didn't pick AMD as a partner, at least not yet, they picked them up for testing their products they haven't made an end user commitment yet, they are trying to see if they can match up with what they have already with nV and Pascal, which is not going to be easy to do, AMD doesn't have the software to match up with nV products & this is at a very low level, AMD's hardware and API's they use for HPC and deep learning don't support all the libraries and functions that are being used right now for Deep Learning. This is why yeah great people can read press releases but they aren't understanding what is going on. And if any one wants more info on this, look up the Boltzmann initiative and why transcoding deep learning code from code with it just isn't straight forward.

Analysts are in this group too, they don't know the nuisances of chip design fab processes, software development, so we can't take what analysts are looking at for granted either. Reality for them is for who ever they are working for is to make them money. So they will try to show it in that point of view. But we know better then they do. We don't buy hardware based on what the stock price is doing lol, we buy it based on what we feel is better based on reviews that we have read and based on games we play. That right there would give everyone ideas of which IHV is doing better, if we need to do a poll all ya gotta do is ask 20 of your online friends randomly and find out which graphics card they are using or planning on getting for a certain game, and you will know which IHV is doing doing better in sales, we don't even need to go so far as Steam Survey and what not.

I am biased towards nV, that is because there are doing so much better than AMD, its undeniable. When nV introduced the Fermi, I even stated I was disappointed with it and even predicted it won't sell well (Even though I could have used the extra horsepower it gave I skipped Fermi cause it didn't have any features that I needed, realtime tessellation wasn't on my to do lists for work and everything else could be done on CUDA with my older graphics card). Did the same thing with the introduction of the 4xxx series against the gt200 series, didn't expect the gt200 series to hurt nV as much as it did but it did.

 

[rinaldo00]

It's arguing for the sake of arguing and it's getting really fucking old. It's the usual suspects. The thing is it's a shame to me because these usual suspects by far and large pretty sharp cats. The problem is that gets lost because of their arrogance and condescension and I believe it adversely impacts forum membership and participation.

Spot on. The problem is that although they seem to know their stuff they seem to enjoy crushing the hopes of AMD fans. Now I absolutely hate the spread of misleading and false information. Any of that should be corrected, but it seems to be done with glee. We all know that at this time Nvidia is crushing AMD. The phrase 'kicking a guy when he is down' comes to mind. Sure, you can do it, and it is easy, but what is the point? As the overwhelming victor in the battle you should try to not be a sore winner, after all you got the joy of winning. If you truly want to educate people correct them with class, not with the same mocking 'LOL' style posts.

PS I have never owned an AMD card.

 

[Dayaks]

I am biased against AMD because every time I go out on a limb I am burned by them. For shits n' giggles I made a SFF with a Fury X and it's been disappointing. Both on a hardware and software level.

Add civ 6 to the list... I guess hey could recover with DX12 but most games we end up using DX11 because it's more stable, ect. so not putting a huge amount of optimism into that.

 

[razor1]

I am biased against AMD because every time I go out on a limb I am burned by them. For shits n' giggles I made a SFF with a Fury X and it's been disappointing. Both on a hardware and software level.

Add civ 6 to the list... I guess hey could recover with DX12 but most games we end up using DX11 because it's more stable, ect. so not putting a huge amount of optimism into that.

That is the only reason why Civ6 didn't come with DX12 is because they need more time with it. Its a more complex path and since it wasn't there with the initial inception of the game or engine, its going to take more time.

 

[Factum]

hey I've bitched Iendra out in PM's,..

He is not the only that has gotten PM's from you

But like I said before...you have much more patience with stupid than me

 

[razor1]

LOL true, people that know me know, they know I'm crass and at times talk like a dick, but doesn't mean I hate a person, that is just me, I'm straightforward and don't hold anything back.

 

[Factum]

LOL true, people that know me know, they know I'm crass and at times talk like a dick, but doesn't mean I hate a person, that is just me, I'm straightforward and don't hold anything back.

Oh it was no complaint...I like people that speak their mind...backed with intelligence and knowlegde/insight

We could use more posters like that...to stop the FUD of stupid that sometimes roams tech-forums.

 

[Ieldra]

Spot on. The problem is that although they seem to know their stuff they seem to enjoy crushing the hopes of AMD fans. .

AMD actually has nothing to do with it, not sure if it was you who posted this, about my responding with glee . Yes, that is absolutely true, I do respond with glee, not because of anything related to AMD/NV - but just because the people on the forums who always call me a troll/biased now have to suck it, and that puts a big fucking smile on my face every time.

I am not gleeful that AMD is having a hard time with CIV VI, I am not gleeful because DX12 is delayed, I am gleeful because so so many times I've been accused of "being threatened" by DX12 and stupid shit like that, that I literally have to fight to contain my laughter when things like these happen. Sure, some people have me on ignore, but you wanna know something funny, they talk about me all the time. They make posts saying how happy they are that they have me on ignore, so I may be out of sight but never out of mind

I would say Razor has a shorter temper and gets pissed more easily, I am more controlled but once I blow it's like krakatoa and yes Razor has corrected me in the past, and he helped me quite a lot when I was writing up that async thingy. He is a game developer, I study physics basically, all of this is totally unrelated to my career, and any and all knowledge I have about DX, games etc is simply because I find it interesting.

Seeing as I was in no more of advantageous position (as far as knowledge about this stuff goes, althought I obviously have technical background) I honestly fail to see why other people can't make the same effort to. You are obviously more than welcome to talk about whatever the hell you want, but then you go into discussion about something technical and suddenly your opinion isn't worth anything. I do not argue for the sake of arguing, most of the time, I argue because i hate the fact that people pretend to know what they're talking about. Sure, maybe you'd see more threads descending into chaos, but you'd also get a ton of people being misinformed .

Honestly, if you're bothered by the fact I am gleeful, you're more than likely one of those people I argued with in the past about these same things

PS:

I honestly find it really funny that I'm perceived by many to be biased and shit, because at the end of the day they're just going to be more pissed off when something they ignored turns out to be true, and not motivated by bias. This is the fundamental problem with dismissing shit automatically, I've run into situations where people here on H who absolutely hate me quoted MY POSTS from somewhere else and agreed with it, whereas when I say it here on the forum (under my name) they accuse me of being an anti-AMD troll.
HA.

Once they get bored of accusing you of being biased, they usually go for "you're so lame you have no life you should just talk about hardware on the internet". YEAH. AND I LEARN. You on the other hand, are given knowledge on a silver platter, and you turn around and shit on it. HA.

So I take it in stride, and I am gleeful, and I make jokes. It makes it much more bearable and much more enjoyable

 

[razor1]

I don't blow up because of no reason, I will give time lol, but when I see people post ignorantly man that just ticks me the f off. Sorry but people like that are the bane of the internet. Stupidity running rampant lol. But yeah I do have a short temper for certain types of postings.

What the hell, a 5 second search could have told Bowman which game dev program Civilization 6 was with. Shit really he is a gamer and loves hardware so much and doesn't remember Civ 5 had mantle? Firaxis games has been on AMD's/ATI's side for years when it came to game dev. Then going on talking about contracts which none of us are privy to and making assumptions that contracts don't give rights to parties? The meaning of damn contract is that so each party knows what they have to do! Its gives the parties involved control!

The people that call others trolls/biased, what ever, they have no god damn argument with what is being said, because they can't counter the post, so they play the ad hominem card, debase the poster lol. Yeah that also ticks me off. And my responses are always in kind when they start doing shit like that.

Any case, physics and game dev and chip making, have many things in common, everything is interrelated ,all the high level stuff, hard to see the relationships till ya deconstruct the problem .

My god how hard is it to see why AMD's DX11 performance is so bad, Ieldra even stated why its doing so bad yet people just ignore the most important parts of his posts and start going on troll card? WTF.

 

[noko]

hey I've bitched Iendra out in PM's, but only in the interest of setting him on the right path, he has always taken my criticism constructively, and even corrected me at times, if you can show that he is wrong, he will change his views. And this is what posting about different things and being enthusiasts is all about, we want to know more then just talk about benchmark numbers, we want to know why certain things are happening. Yet as you can see from this thread, and the marketshare thread many people don't think this way and they plainly see what IHV's say as the truth. Just think about this AMD didn't mention anything about Polaris's marketshare figures in their latest Q results lol, what does that mean. Yeah they mentioned it is selling well and all, but why not the numbers? Hmm I think I just predicted they didn't gain marketshare and most likely lost a good deal to come true? Possibly and after their conference call looks to be that way when you look at their numbers. Semi Custom drove their revenue something that looks like its not going to drive numbers next quarter 18% drop is close to the increase they saw in revenue this quarter, pretty much AMD got a boost for their revenue figures because... flat rate contract for finishing up work on console designs for their side of things? This isn't unheard of when contracting work is done and is to be expected.

Only thing AMD has been able to accomplish the past 2 years, is show us Zen is coming, they can't really compete with nV yet gotta wait for Vega on that, and reduce their work force, sell off parts of themselves, and finally take all the speculation on their company based on these things, which drove stock price up and reduce their debt in a very smart way. Business wise yeah they are doing good by reducing their debt, but product wise, they haven't shown anything substantial yet, they need to do this otherwise all that speculation ramp up, is going to come back and haunt them.

I was reading on a financial site about the Alibaba deal with AMD, Alibaba picked up AMD as a partner is what they stated, Alibaba didn't pick AMD as a partner, at least not yet, they picked them up for testing their products they haven't made an end user commitment yet, they are trying to see if they can match up with what they have already with nV and Pascal, which is not going to be easy to do, AMD doesn't have the software to match up with nV products & this is at a very low level, AMD's hardware and API's they use for HPC and deep learning don't support all the libraries and functions that are being used right now for Deep Learning. This is why yeah great people can read press releases but they aren't understanding what is going on. And if any one wants more info on this, look up the Boltzmann initiative and why transcoding deep learning code from code with it just isn't straight forward.

Analysts are in this group too, they don't know the nuisances of chip design fab processes, software development, so we can't take what analysts are looking at for granted either. Reality for them is for who ever they are working for is to make them money. So they will try to show it in that point of view. But we know better then they do. We don't buy hardware based on what the stock price is doing lol, we buy it based on what we feel is better based on reviews that we have read and based on games we play. That right there would give everyone ideas of which IHV is doing better, if we need to do a poll all ya gotta do is ask 20 of your online friends randomly and find out which graphics card they are using or planning on getting for a certain game, and you will know which IHV is doing doing better in sales, we don't even need to go so far as Steam Survey and what not.

I am biased towards nV, that is because there are doing so much better than AMD, its undeniable. When nV introduced the Fermi, I even stated I was disappointed with it and even predicted it won't sell well (Even though I could have used the extra horsepower it gave I skipped Fermi cause it didn't have any features that I needed, realtime tessellation wasn't on my to do lists for work and everything else could be done on CUDA with my older graphics card). Did the same thing with the introduction of the 4xxx series against the gt200 series, didn't expect the gt200 series to hurt nV as much as it did but it did.

Wait are you not the one that pointed out or complained about others not knowing enough to speak or should take a litmus test of some sort? What does the above have anything to do with this topic? Maybe a litmus test for folks that can stay on the topic and instead of spewing stuff out

So I find the benchmarks interesting and lack of DX 12 also more interesting. Since Leldra did push me in the right direction, cpu limited scenario here, you noting AMD worst DX 11 cpu usage. Could it be that AMD's drivers are getting in the way of the game engine AI use causing a lot of interruptions? Also DX 12 with many dependent AI elements that have to play out meaning extremely co-dependent upon each other may actually hurt the performance? Or will be restricted to less trends overall to prevent very long stalls on the different threads waiting for other threads to complete?

I wished HardOCP would interview developers, like in this game and ask what is going on. I think many of us here are really guessing out of our ass.

 

[noko]

AMD actually has nothing to do with it, not sure if it was you who posted this, about my responding with glee . Yes, that is absolutely true, I do respond with glee, not because of anything related to AMD/NV - but just because the people on the forums who always call me a troll/biased now have to suck it, and that puts a big fucking smile on my face every time.

I am not gleeful that AMD is having a hard time with CIV VI, I am not gleeful because DX12 is delayed, I am gleeful because so so many times I've been accused of "being threatened" by DX12 and stupid shit like that, that I literally have to fight to contain my laughter when things like these happen. Sure, some people have me on ignore, but you wanna know something funny, they talk about me all the time. They make posts saying how happy they are that they have me on ignore, so I may be out of sight but never out of mind

I would say Razor has a shorter temper and gets pissed more easily, I am more controlled but once I blow it's like krakatoa and yes Razor has corrected me in the past, and he helped me quite a lot when I was writing up that async thingy. He is a game developer, I study physics basically, all of this is totally unrelated to my career, and any and all knowledge I have about DX, games etc is simply because I find it interesting.

Seeing as I was in no more of advantageous position (as far as knowledge about this stuff goes, althought I obviously have technical background) I honestly fail to see why other people can't make the same effort to. You are obviously more than welcome to talk about whatever the hell you want, but then you go into discussion about something technical and suddenly your opinion isn't worth anything. I do not argue for the sake of arguing, most of the time, I argue because i hate the fact that people pretend to know what they're talking about. Sure, maybe you'd see more threads descending into chaos, but you'd also get a ton of people being misinformed .

Honestly, if you're bothered by the fact I am gleeful, you're more than likely one of those people I argued with in the past about these same things

PS:

I honestly find it really funny that I'm perceived by many to be biased and shit, because at the end of the day they're just going to be more pissed off when something they ignored turns out to be true, and not motivated by bias. This is the fundamental problem with dismissing shit automatically, I've run into situations where people here on H who absolutely hate me quoted MY POSTS from somewhere else and agreed with it, whereas when I say it here on the forum (under my name) they accuse me of being an anti-AMD troll.
HA.

Once they get bored of accusing you of being biased, they usually go for "you're so lame you have no life you should just talk about hardware on the internet". YEAH. AND I LEARN. You on the other hand, are given knowledge on a silver platter, and you turn around and shit on it. HA.

So I take it in stride, and I am gleeful, and I make jokes. It makes it much more bearable and much more enjoyable

So after all that self selfies, have we nailed down why AMD is doing much poorer in this then Nvidia? Not tessellation, not graphics . . .

 

[razor1]

Wait are you not the one that pointed out or complained about others not knowing enough to speak or should take a litmus test of some sort? What does the above have anything to do with this topic? Maybe a litmus test for folks that can stay on the topic and instead of spewing stuff out

Its kinda hard to keep on topic when people start pulling out the bias or troll card

So I find the benchmarks interesting and lack of DX 12 also more interesting. Since Leldra did push me in the right direction, cpu limited scenario here, you noting AMD worst DX 11 cpu usage. Could it be that AMD's drivers are getting in the way of the game engine AI use causing a lot of interruptions? Also DX 12 with many dependent AI elements that have to play out meaning extremely co-dependent upon each other may actually hurt the performance? Or will be restricted to less trends overall to prevent very long stalls on the different threads waiting for other threads to complete?

Nothing wrong with needing more time to do the DX12 path, rather have it done right than having it come out like most of the DX12 paths so far. Its AI, Physics, draw call, anything to do with the CPU is going to make it a bad for DX11 and AMD. The latency and timing of what is going on, shouldn't have an effect on the graphics rendering so much at least not in this game, because each object should be have its own instances of AI and Physics. I'm guessing on this by screenshots and game play videos, haven't played it yet lol will do some tomorrow.

I wished HardOCP would interview developers, like in this game and ask what is going on. I think many of us here are really guessing out of our ass.

Noko yeah many are looking at it from the outside, but things like contracts, everyone has signed a contract in some way or form, just reading whats on a contract and understanding it, doesn't matter what the contract is for, but it protects the people that signed it, both parties, and gives obligations to them to do things. Its such basic knowledge that everyone should know. If they don't they shouldn't be signing for a car loan, or a student loan, or opening a bank account. or signing up on a forum, or making a face book account, or an online game account.

 

[noko]

Its kinda hard to keep on topic when people start pulling out the bias or troll card



Nothing wrong with needing more time to do the DX12 path, rather have it done right than having it come out like most of the DX12 paths so far. Its AI, Physics, draw call, anything to do with the CPU is going to make it a bad for DX11 and AMD. The latency and timing of what is going on, shouldn't have an effect on the graphics rendering so much at least not in this game, because each object should be have its own instances of AI and Physics. I'm guessing on this by screenshots and game play videos, haven't played it yet lol will do some tomorrow.



Noko yeah many are looking at it from the outside, but things like contracts, everyone has signed a contract in some way or form, just reading whats on a contract and understanding it, doesn't matter what the contract is for, but it protects the people that signed it, both parties, and gives obligations to them to do things.

Yep same here, keeping that signal to noise ratio can get hard at times and I get lost probably more then you when going off into a dark tangent. Well if you get to play it, I believe you have also an AMD card as well so some insight into this AMD poorer performance maybe interesting. Maybe more important is why the hell Nvidia does it so much better.

 

[cageymaru]

Incomplete board game with missing features from the game manual. No drivers. No DX12 path. Just released onto Steam.

Seems like the average Early Access game on Steam.

Taking bets on it working properly with all features by the time it hits $39.99, $29.99, or $19.99? By the time it gets to $9.99 all development will have long concluded on it.

 

[rinaldo00]

Honestly, if you're bothered by the fact I am gleeful, you're more than likely one of those people I argued with in the past about these same things

Uh no, not me. Don't flatter yourself

So I take it in stride, and I am gleeful, and I make jokes. It makes it much more bearable and much more enjoyable

That is not the glee I mean. You make jokes at other people's expense (like the joke you just made at me without knowing much about me) and at AMD's expense. You seem to take joy when pro AMD rumors fail to deliver. I just do not understand why.

 

[OutOfPhase]

Incomplete board game with missing features from the game manual. No drivers. No DX12 path. Just released onto Steam.

Seems like the average Early Access game on Steam.

Taking bets on it working properly with all features by the time it hits $39.99, $29.99, or $19.99? By the time it gets to $9.99 all development will have long concluded on it.

Thats not what I'm seeing. The game is fun and runs well. I haven't had any crashes or noticed any bugs at all, to be honest.

What do you mean by working properly?

 

[cageymaru]

Thats not what I'm seeing. The game is fun and runs well. I haven't had any crashes or noticed any bugs at all, to be honest.

What do you mean by working properly?

All of the features are not in the game. One of the main things I like to do with my nephews is to team up against the A.I. or in multiplayer. It's not yet implemented from what I've read. Has it been added? Maybe I was told the wrong information? If it's supposed to be in the game and not yet implemented, then I consider it to be Early Access quality. Where is DX12?

Nvidia and AMD will release more drivers for this game since the newest Nvidia and AMD drivers are broken in general. There are a ton of issues for Nvidia and AMD users for other games, flash, video, etc with the drivers from both camps. Both usually need 2 or 3 releases before newest titles get the proper treatment.

I haven't purchased the game yet because I learned awhile ago to wait for the paying Beta testers to report issues so that I can get a full featured product that works perfectly. For you and others that will be reporting bugs on the base game, and the upcoming DX12 patch; I commend you. Make sure that you report all of the issues so that I can have a great first impression of the game. I'm tired of paying full price for bugs.


With that said, when the game is feature complete and running DX12 fine, I will purchase it and drop 350 - 3,000 hours into it. Of course depending on if I'm playing a MMO at the time.

 

[KickAssCop]

Wtf happened in this thread lol.

 

[Factum]

Wtf happened in this thread lol.

Stupid came, shouted up...and got put in place.

 

[Michaelius]

Oh so the AMD funded patch to reduce Geforce performance using DX12 and async isn't released yet ?

So after all that self selfies, have we nailed down why AMD is doing much poorer in this then Nvidia? Not tessellation, not graphics . . .

Same as always - AMD GCN is badly prepared for DX11 and can't use cpu as efficiently as Nvidia- no amount of drivers can fix that (we used to blame this on drivers but that was wrong)

 

[Damar]

It runs fine for me with the GeForce Experience recommended settings... but then again... everything runs fine for me using those at the moment.

Go fig.

 

[Shintai]

Incomplete board game with missing features from the game manual. No drivers. No DX12 path. Just released onto Steam.

Seems like the average Early Access game on Steam.

Taking bets on it working properly with all features by the time it hits $39.99, $29.99, or $19.99? By the time it gets to $9.99 all development will have long concluded on it.

All of the features are not in the game. One of the main things I like to do with my nephews is to team up against the A.I. or in multiplayer. It's not yet implemented from what I've read. Has it been added? Maybe I was told the wrong information? If it's supposed to be in the game and not yet implemented, then I consider it to be Early Access quality. Where is DX12?

Nvidia and AMD will release more drivers for this game since the newest Nvidia and AMD drivers are broken in general. There are a ton of issues for Nvidia and AMD users for other games, flash, video, etc with the drivers from both camps. Both usually need 2 or 3 releases before newest titles get the proper treatment.

I haven't purchased the game yet because I learned awhile ago to wait for the paying Beta testers to report issues so that I can get a full featured product that works perfectly. For you and others that will be reporting bugs on the base game, and the upcoming DX12 patch; I commend you. Make sure that you report all of the issues so that I can have a great first impression of the game. I'm tired of paying full price for bugs.


With that said, when the game is feature complete and running DX12 fine, I will purchase it and drop 350 - 3,000 hours into it. Of course depending on if I'm playing a MMO at the time.

Both AMD and Nvidia got game ready drivers.

The game is quite solid and only a few features missing. So far the missing parts are the ability to rename cities and the team selection in multiplayer.

Did you post the same when AOTS, Hitman, Deus Ex, Warhammer etc was released. Or is it just the current benchmark result that's the problem?

Also nobody knows at this point if the game will even get a DX12 path.