Bloomfield, Thuban, or wait

amdgamer

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Hey guys, I am trying to decide what to do right now. I have been saving a little each month hoping to be able to put together a Magny Cours folding rig by the end of this year. Right now, I have just enough to put together another folding rig based on a Intel Core i7 930, or an AMD P2 1090T X6 if I just jump the gun and build another folding rig today. Do you guys think I should jump the gun and build another rig with a Bloomfield, Thuban, or should I just wait and go save for the big guns? I hate waiting, but I have to say that i'm also jealous at the kind of damage I see you guys with dual processor rigs doing.
 

APOLLO

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I would say to wait. This is one of those times where waiting is probably better than leaping because new GPU hardware has just been released and we will get into a new processor release cycle in the next couple of quarters. Also, Stanford seems to be in transition now with new client and WU releases plus more changes in the following months. Too much flux and uncertainty right now, IMHO

Looking very closely at Bulldozer myself.
 

amdgamer

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I would say to wait. This is one of those times where waiting is probably better than leaping because new GPU hardware has just been released and we will get into a new processor release cycle in the next couple of quarters. Also, Stanford seems to be in transition now with new client and WU releases plus more changes in the following months. Too much flux and uncertainty right now, IMHO

Looking very closely at Bulldozer myself.

There was a thread over in the AMD processor section, but it appears that Bulldozer may not be out till the middle of next year. I really want to go with an AMD rig, but AMD is going to be in serious trouble if all they can offer till next year is the Thuban 1090T.
 

jebo_4jc

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I would probably jump on a bloomfield system, as much as I hate to say it to an AMD fan.

I currently own an SR2 system, an x58, and a thuban system. All of them are clocked in the 3.8 to 4.2 range.

Unfortunately the thuban system can only manage about 10,000 to 15,000 ppd. On average I'd say it's been getting 12,000 ppd with the current supply of WUs.

My i7 920/x58 system gets 16,000 only on a bad day. I don't have mine running the new bigadv 2685 units that just came out in the past couple days, but those are getting back in the neighborhood of 20,000 to 22,000 ppd.

Conversely, if building an x58 system doesn't sit well with you, you might as well wait. Sandy Bridge quad core is coming out in the next 6 months and odds are, it will perform better than bloomfield with lower power consumption. You'll probably pay a premium....figure $250 mobo, $300 cpu, and $200 for quad channel RAM. You probably know what AMD has up its sleeve better than I. Sounds like the first fusion will be an Atom competitor though. Not sure when their high end is coming.

If you buy an i7 system now, it will earn you about 3.5 million points between now and the time Sandy bridge comes out :) (assuming the current crop of WUs stays relatively the same)
 
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sirmonkey1985

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im with apollo.. at this point the best thing to do is wait.. let the prices drop and see if maybe AMD pulls something out of a hat and releases a new x6 stepping or something or wait for the lower price hex-core i7's to come out to drive the i7 quad core prices down.. personally im not a fan of the i7 930 because they are hit and miss when it comes to overclocking.. some will do 4ghz+ with no issues and some wont even break 3.5ghz.. right now the best option for low end i7 quads is the 920 still..
 

APOLLO

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If you buy an i7 system now, it will earn you about 3.5 million points between now and the time Sandy bridge comes out :) (assuming the current crop of WUs stays relatively the same)
That's another good point. Sandy Bridge is something I'm also looking forward to but only server type products will be released for the foreseeable future, so OCing is likely to be impossible for a long time.
 

W.Feather

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i would say wait....both sides are coming out with new stuff relatively soon....and who knows, AMD never really goes out and shows their secrets....IIRC no one really knew much about Thuban(clock speed, wattage, etc....we knew it was based on the same Phenom II architecture) until launch......so who knows their next gen may be great, or flop like the 1st Phenom's....

this is from the hardware perspective atleast, not a folding one....


that or just get a Magny system and love the 12 physical core goodness ;P
 

sirmonkey1985

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pretty much feather.. everything was 100% speculation up until the day of release and most of that information was completely wrong.. there are also suppose to be 3 more lower end OEM x6's coming out as well.. the 1035 and 1030 and one other that i cant remember what the names suppose to be.. but with the room between the 1055T and the 1090 i wouldnt be suprised if they release another chip in the middle of that.. also id like to see them do a refresh stepping running at 95w instead of 125 but thats just a dream i have.. because if they could do that the x6's would become overclocking beasts and run on a lot more low end am2+ boards..
 

APOLLO

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The main problem I see with Thuban isn't price point or general performance, but F@H support, namely lack thereof where it comes to -bigadv. One would be greatly limiting themselves by excising that option, the way I see it unless -bigadv isn't of primary interest
 

sirmonkey1985

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The main problem I see with Thuban isn't price point or general performance, but F@H support, namely lack thereof where it comes to -bigadv. One would be greatly limiting themselves by excising that option, the way I see it unless -bigadv isn't of primary interest


i still thing the limiting factor is that F@H still uses and intel based API for its smp client.. until something is created for AMD we probably will never see what a thuban can actually do.. and since no one can try to run a -bigadv WU on a thuban we still have no idea how it would do and if it could actually make the deadline or not..
 

APOLLO

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.. and since no one can try to run a -bigadv WU on a thuban we still have no idea how it would do and if it could actually make the deadline or not..
I'm pretty confident it can, the rest is just up to Stanford. If my Clovertowns and Harpertowns can make the deadline of even a P2684 clocked at under 3GHz, definitely a Thuban @~4GHz can ace it.
 

jebo_4jc

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I'm sure you could track down somebody using an AMD server system which has enough cores to give you an idea of performance. Aren't there 8 core Opterons out there? Maybe somebody has run bigadv on a single one of those.
 

sirmonkey1985

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I'm sure you could track down somebody using an AMD server system which has enough cores to give you an idea of performance. Aren't there 8 core Opterons out there? Maybe somebody has run bigadv on a single one of those.


the 8 core opterons are clocked way to low for the bigadv WU's.. if you have a board that can overclock them then sure they can but i think on the opteron side the minimum is 12 cores..


the highest clocked quad core opty is only 3.1ghz and thats a 2400 dollar processor.. next is only 2.3ghz and is 900 dollars.. the 8 core opty is 2.3ghz at 525 dollars.. and the 12 core opty is 2.2ghz at 1300 dollars..


now after seeing the price on that 8 core opty its making me really want to go with a 16 core opty system now.. ARGGG!!!!!!!!
 

APOLLO

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Aren't there 8 core Opterons out there?
Yes, there are dual 8 core systems dating back to the early Barcelona days and there are also 12-core (dual hex-core Istanbul) and higher core systems. Not quite the same but for sure we can extrapolate from these architectures. Problem still remains regarding a lack of support. Thuban is still very good for regular A3.
 

sirmonkey1985

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Yes, there are dual 8 core systems dating back to the early Barcelona days and there are also 12-core (dual hex-core Istanbul) and higher core systems. Not quite the same but for sure we can extrapolate from these architectures. Problem still remains regarding a lack of support. Thuban is still very good for regular A3.


there are also 8Px12 core systems too... drools.. :p
 

amdgamer

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The biggest problem i've found from spending some time looking at server boards is that none of them appear to support overclocking. What is worse is that very few will actually fit in an E-ATX case, which makes things even harder. As you guys know, I am a huge supporter of the fight against naked folding.

I checked every socket C32 board out currently, and none of them appear to overclock. That is a shame as the Opteron 41xx platform would otherwise be a folder's dream due to the incredibly low prices on those chips.

I checked the two socket G34(Magny Cours) boards and they also appear to not support overclocking. This would be out of my price range right now anyway as I only have enough saved up for a Bloomfield or Thuban based system.

When you look at cpu performance in this context, the Gulftown 980x is actually not a bad deal even for $999. Not only are they powerful enough to put nearly every Opteron to shame at stock speeds, but it turns into a virtual 1 processor supercomputer when overclocked. The bad news is that my budget will not allow for a $999 processor right now.
 

Vaulter98c

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It's down to 700 something now I think, check the hot deals link
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APOLLO

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The biggest problem i've found from spending some time looking at server boards is that none of them appear to support overclocking. What is worse is that very few will actually fit in an E-ATX case, which makes things even harder. As you guys know, I am a huge supporter of the fight against naked folding.

I checked every socket C32 board out currently, and none of them appear to overclock. That is a shame as the Opteron 41xx platform would otherwise be a folder's dream due to the incredibly low prices on those chips.

I checked the two socket G34(Magny Cours) boards and they also appear to not support overclocking. This would be out of my price range right now anyway as I only have [enough saved up for a Bloomfield or Thuban based system.
Sometimes, OCing support is not readily apparent. None of my server motherboards whether Intel or AMD officially support OCing, and neither did my old dual-Socket A boards before them. This is accomplished through software.

You will need to rummage through the archives at 2cpu.com to see if any dual socket AMD boards are supported through OC utilities, like my Supermicro H8DCi and previous H8DCE. My Intel Socket 771 boards all have OCed through software as well, except my Skulltrail which requires going through the BIOS, but that board was designed for OCing from the get go. As far as S1366 is concerned, the only thing available with dual sockets that will OC is of course the SR-2...

When you look at cpu performance in this context, the Gulftown 980x is actually not a bad deal even for $999. Not only are they powerful enough to put nearly every Opteron to shame at stock speeds, but it turns into a virtual 1 processor supercomputer when overclocked..
Agreed, Gulftown rocks. :cool:
 

sirmonkey1985

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there are actually a few that support overclocking but do not say they support it.. theres no "overclocking" tab in the bios.. just an FSB(HT) and sometimes a cpu voltage option in the bios.. the true overclocking opteron boards are hard to find but they are out there..
 

sirmonkey1985

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Yeah, for the Bill Gate$ of the world... :eek:


sure if you want the high end magny's.. you can get the 1.9ghz ones for 760.. which comes to a grand total of .... drum roll......... 6080 dollars.. come on you dont think 96 physical cores at 1.9ghz isnt worth 6080 dollars? would like to see you do that with an intel system.. :D.. oh wait you cant.. lol
 

APOLLO

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sure if you want the high end magny's.. you can get the 1.9ghz ones for 760.. which comes to a grand total of .... drum roll......... 6080 dollars.. come on you dont think 96 physical cores at 1.9ghz isnt worth 6080 dollars? would like to see you do that with an intel system.. :D.. oh wait you cant.. lol
Sure it's worth it; unfortunately, I don't have the $$ for a SR-2 system let along an octal-socket duodeca-core, LOL... :eek: :eek:
 

sirmonkey1985

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Sure it's worth it; unfortunately, I don't have the $$ for a SR-2 system let along an octal-socket duodeca-core, LOL... :eek: :eek:


either do i.. but luckily dreaming of stuff you will never buy is free.. :p
 

amdgamer

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It's down to 700 something now I think, check the hot deals link
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That is an incredible deal. Please don't tell me that Intel is discontinuing them to make way for their $899 i7 970? Good deal or not, that is still way more than what my budget would allow for anyway. Maybe it is best to just wait and gradually build up my budget. However, i'm afraid that i'm gonna raid my entertainment budget if I wait too long as i'm currently eyeing a Colt or Smith and Wesson .357 Magnum revolver.

Sometimes, OCing support is not readily apparent. None of my server motherboards whether Intel or AMD officially support OCing, and neither did my old dual-Socket A boards before them. This is accomplished through software.

You will need to rummage through the archives at 2cpu.com to see if any dual socket AMD boards are supported through OC utilities, like my Supermicro H8DCi and previous H8DCE. My Intel Socket 771 boards all have OCed through software as well, except my Skulltrail which requires going through the BIOS, but that board was designed for OCing from the get go. As far as S1366 is concerned, the only thing available with dual sockets that will OC is of course the SR-2...

Agreed, Gulftown rocks. :cool:

there are actually a few that support overclocking but do not say they support it.. theres no "overclocking" tab in the bios.. just an FSB(HT) and sometimes a cpu voltage option in the bios.. the true overclocking opteron boards are hard to find but they are out there..

I had no idea that you could overclock some motherboards via software. However, it would seem to be limited in what you could do if you couldn't adjust anything other than Vcore.
 

Vaulter98c

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They aren't record setting OC's, but using apps like setFSB are nice
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APOLLO

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I had no idea that you could overclock some motherboards via software. However, it would seem to be limited in what you could do if you couldn't adjust anything other than Vcore.
In my near decade of experience with this sort of stuff (OCing servers), it's usually the reverse - voltage adjustment is very rare. To be honest, I have never seen it but things like FSB or Hypertransport frequencies can be adjusted, depending on architecture and/or motherboard. I would love if I could change the various voltages on my systems...
 

sirmonkey1985

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That is an incredible deal. Please don't tell me that Intel is discontinuing them to make way for their $899 i7 970? Good deal or not, that is still way more than what my budget would allow for anyway. Maybe it is best to just wait and gradually build up my budget. However, i'm afraid that i'm gonna raid my entertainment budget if I wait too long as i'm currently eyeing a Colt or Smith and Wesson .357 Magnum revolver.





I had no idea that you could overclock some motherboards via software. However, it would seem to be limited in what you could do if you couldn't adjust anything other than Vcore.


yep its a little program called K10stat but its not 100% guaranteed for G34 motherboards..
 

jebo_4jc

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yep its a little program called K10stat but its not 100% guaranteed for G34 motherboards..
is this info from 2cpu.com? If so, let's do some digging and see what kind of AMD server rigs people are building and overclocking, and what kind of ppd they're getting from them!

2.0ghz octa core opterons are only $300

Even if you could only adjust frequencies, and not volts, you could still do some overclocking damage
 

lehmann

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Intel released there cheaper 6 core yesterday the i7-970 but it isnt much cheaper. only $100 off. hopfully we will see these come down in price a bit more but who knows.
 

W.Feather

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also id like to see them do a refresh stepping running at 95w instead of 125 but thats just a dream i have.. because if they could do that the x6's would become overclocking beasts and run on a lot more low end am2+ boards..

there are 95w parts in the works.....it was announced a while ago that there would be a 95w 1055T.....which can be seen on the support page for most Asus boards that support Thuban....though I do not know of a 1090T 95w.....also, there is one more chip due out in dec, a 1095T, my guess is it will kinda be like the 965 is to the 955...just a higher clock speed but essentially the same chip
 

10e

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is this info from 2cpu.com? If so, let's do some digging and see what kind of AMD server rigs people are building and overclocking, and what kind of ppd they're getting from them!

2.0ghz octa core opterons are only $300

Even if you could only adjust frequencies, and not volts, you could still do some overclocking damage

My dual Opteron 6168 system on an Asus KGPE-D16 motherboard is almost built. I'll let you know if there are any tweaks that I can do with it in terms of frequency etc....

SR-2 with dual 6-cores would be nice, but the motherboard plus both chips cost me only a bit more than an SR-2 plus 6-core Xeon would cost up here in Canada new. Up here the SR-2 is 650+, and a single Xeon x5650 would be over $1000.00 each.

I got the board for $450 and each chip for $790.00 (plus taxes of course. taxes taxes)

Additionally I didn't have to do anything crazy in finding a case for an HPTX board, as the Lian Li PC-P80 I got fits an SSI EEB board perfectly.

EDIT: Here's a photo of one CPU, heatsink and motherboard:

4812481556_70cba25281_b.jpg
 
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jebo_4jc

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My dual Opteron 6168 system on an Asus KGPE-D16 motherboard is almost built. I'll let you know if there are any tweaks that I can do with it in terms of frequency etc....

SR-2 with dual 6-cores would be nice, but the motherboard plus both chips cost me only a bit more than an SR-2 plus 6-core Xeon would cost up here in Canada new. Up here the SR-2 is 650+, and a single Xeon x5650 would be over $1000.00 each.

I got the board for $450 and each chip for $790.00 (plus taxes of course. taxes taxes)

Additionally I didn't have to do anything crazy in finding a case for an HPTX board, as the Lian Li PC-P80 I got fits an SSI EEB board perfectly.
nice!

be sure to check out the app mentioned above
 

mplee

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I'm pretty confident it can, the rest is just up to Stanford. If my Clovertowns and Harpertowns can make the deadline of even a P2684 clocked at under 3GHz, definitely a Thuban @~4GHz can ace it.

I read a few weeks back that someone tried running bigadv through a debugger on a Thuban at 4ghz....it didn't quite make the cutoff. Let me see if I can find the links...

Here they are:

http://www.overclock.net/overclock-net-folding-home-team/765908-windows-bigadv-26.html

http://www.overclock.net/overclock-net-folding-home-team/765908-windows-bigadv-28.html

http://www.overclock.net/overclock-net-folding-home-team/765908-windows-bigadv-32.html
 

Vaulter98c

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the new ones might make it, but it would be too close to net any advantage I think
 

amdgamer

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My dual Opteron 6168 system on an Asus KGPE-D16 motherboard is almost built. I'll let you know if there are any tweaks that I can do with it in terms of frequency etc....

SR-2 with dual 6-cores would be nice, but the motherboard plus both chips cost me only a bit more than an SR-2 plus 6-core Xeon would cost up here in Canada new. Up here the SR-2 is 650+, and a single Xeon x5650 would be over $1000.00 each.

I got the board for $450 and each chip for $790.00 (plus taxes of course. taxes taxes)

Additionally I didn't have to do anything crazy in finding a case for an HPTX board, as the Lian Li PC-P80 I got fits an SSI EEB board perfectly.

EDIT: Here's a photo of one CPU, heatsink and motherboard:

4812481556_70cba25281_b.jpg

That is such a sexy rig! I love it, although those rectangular cpu sockets look a bit wierd. Then again, i'm sure that is one huge processor considering that it has 12 cores.

Can't wait to see what kind of numbers you will be putting up with it.
 

Nathan_P

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My bigrig is on hold until next year, hopefully bulldozer will be out sooner rather than later, in the meantime i have limited funds for upgrades to my GPU rig.

If you want to try secondhand, older opty's can still pump out some serious PPD
try here for some idea of PPD but bear in mind these are on older projects but people do say that 2685 runs closer to 2681-83 in terms of PPD.

http://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=10733&start=270#p131077
 

sirmonkey1985

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That is such a sexy rig! I love it, although those rectangular cpu sockets look a bit wierd. Then again, i'm sure that is one huge processor considering that it has 12 cores.

Can't wait to see what kind of numbers you will be putting up with it.


its the price you have to pay if you want a G34 socket motherboard with quad channel memory.. :p
 
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