Bill Gives President Emergency Control of Internet

I am saying not all Fox News Stories are pulled from reputable sources. Man my first sentence was confusing. :)
 
DaedalusHelios said:
The fact checking is lacking since most sources used are youtube and extremist groups themselves. So here so you are wrong again. Quit taking a stab at people without understanding the situation. Its like Fox News.
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Immediately followed by...

DaedalusHelios said:
I guess I should stop feeding the trolls. [H] likes to keep them healthy.
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Priceless.
 
DaedalusHelios said:
Fox News is sensational television
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So is all news, except maybe PBS, which is boring as fuck BTW.

What does Inside Edition have to do with anything. That was a tabloid and the anchors, Bill O'Reilly included, would say what ever the producers wanted. His current show, he is the boss. But since when has posing hard questions been extremism. I am about 50/50 on his views, ok maybe 60/40 in favor, but his questioning of ALL people is equally difficult.

The big sensationalist now is Glenn Beck, with his world is going to end, ominous music commentary. But again his questions of what is going are legit regardless of who you are. It is stuff you should know of your government. Call him a wackjob, fine, but listen to his questions are they from left field or do they make sense. Judge for yourself, if you can stand to watch his show for 1 hour.

I watch MSNBC just like I am trying to understand your views. I want to know what is it that you see that I do not. I ask myself "am I missing anything". Ours brains do not work the same, but there is no need for name calling, say one or the other is an idiot or uninformed. I apologize for doing that to you more than once.

Read the Bill of Rights, The Constitution, and the Declaration of Independence. I still believe in those documents and I assume you do too. We just read them differently.

There is no need for defending any side of our government because they are ALL corrupt on both sides. So hopefully we can at least agree to vote all those retards out of office so that we can actually improve the standing of our country.

P.S. Thanks for the post count boost.:D
 
w1retap said:
If you saw how many people just FUCKING POUR into our hospitals from Ontario, you'd shit a brick. They can't even get simple treatments and surgeries. Cancer treatment? Forget about it. Angioplasty? Forget about it. Canada's system is a joke. My family members from Toronto have to go to Buffalo NY or here near Detroit MI to get their specialist appointments.
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Ummm.. sorry, but what do you mean by "can't even get simple treatments and surgeries"? How is the Canadian system a joke? because you say it is? because everyone can access it? I don't pretend it is perfect, because it definitely isn't, but why the hate for it? I mean you might be inconvenienced by the fact that it is a bit slower if you get universal healthcare, but why be so absolutely full of spite?
 
I would just like to say that I am very sorry for dragging out the whole healthcare thing here, but it is rather vexing when people start attacking Canadian healthcare for no apparent reason.
 
The constitution isn't a suicide pact. I have more respect for a mugger than someone who gets a bus ride & told who to vote for, so they can steal more of my $. Scotus is supposed to interpret, not make law, but our chickenshit representatives let scotus do this so they can keep their power. Scotus doesn't need to be re-elected. The constitution was ideal, but it was compromised to create this nation. Bad politics, but that's still no reason to flush it. You were given freedom just by being born here, don't take it for granted. People are still trying to get into the US to get the freedom you take for granted. The bills before congress will steal your freedom, don't let that happen. Vote these career pols out.
 
Dantrax said:
The constitution isn't a suicide pact. I have more respect for a mugger than someone who gets a bus ride & told who to vote for, so they can steal more of my $. Scotus is supposed to interpret, not make law, but our chickenshit representatives let scotus do this so they can keep their power. Scotus doesn't need to be re-elected. The constitution was ideal, but it was compromised to create this nation. Bad politics, but that's still no reason to flush it. You were given freedom just by being born here, don't take it for granted. People are still trying to get into the US to get the freedom you take for granted. The bills before congress will steal your freedom, don't let that happen. Vote these career pols out.
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When you complain about this are you suggesting voting republican instead? because I think most of us can agree that the liberals and conservatives, and republicans and democrats are just two sides of the same coin. Incidentally who originally coined that phrase? but back to the point, are you just suggesting to vote republican because you are morally opposed to the dems? Or do you want something completely different?

Also I have seen the name ron paul come up a few times, but can't find an official platform or anything. anyone got a link?
 
The-UselessNoob said:
I would just like to say that I am very sorry for dragging out the whole healthcare thing here, but it is rather vexing when people start attacking Canadian healthcare for no apparent reason.
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I agree, It is not to bash Canada.

I have spent many years of my life living in Europe, so let me explain the problem with government run healthcare. All countries have the same problem.

One day you notice something different and you go to the doctor to check it out. You get into your GP fast, however he says you need to see a specialist. Now the fun begins, you go to a health center where all the specialists are and stand in line for 2 hours to get your appointment. You get the appointment for 2 months from now because that is the soonest available. You finaly get to the specialist and he orders tests. Back to the line to get the test done in another 2 months which then takes 2 months after that to go get the results. now we are at 6 months since the problem began. Now back to the big line to get an appointment with the specialist to show him the results. So 8 to 9 months after the original problem surfaced you finally get the diagnosis. If it is medication your done. If it is something serious your fucked and if you need surgery you have to wait up to 2 years to get into the operating room if it is non life threatening.

If you have private insurance this whole process is completed within a week or two. This is where the politicians are misleading. All countries with government healthcare still have private insurance to purchase and so would the USA. Anybody with any money in these countries buys it. Why? Because hands down it is WAY better. The public option is nice because cost is never an issue, but the lines and being treated like a number with nurses and doctors that don't give a fuck really sucks.
 
caniba said:
If you have private insurance this whole process is completed within a week or two. This is where the politicians are misleading. All countries with government healthcare still have private insurance to purchase and so would the USA. Anybody with any money in these countries buys it. Why? Because hands down it is WAY better. The public option is nice because cost is never an issue, but the lines and being treated like a number with nurses and doctors that don't give a fuck really sucks.
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Yes, but allowing private insurance and healthcare to run wild is not the answer- and because your scenario is not reasonable.

Number 1. Private Insurance companies are not non-profit. Therefore, there are incentives to bring on healthy people and deny coverage to high-risk applicants. (Is it fair to deny you and your fanily coverage because one of your parents has Alzheimers?)

Number 2. Even the healthy can get sick and be denied coverage. The private health companies are adept and creative for denying existing clients, or even diluting the amount of coverage. (Yes, we will pay for your surgery, but the hospital stay/bedside care is your problem.)

Number 3. Monopolistic markets and unregulated fees are not giving people enough options and are being forced to pay higher and higher premiums.

I currently live in Canada; and while the system is far from perfect, the problem here is the number of medical technicians and doctors supporting the system is in dire need of topping off. The level of care is there, the accessability to health coverage is excellent and the fees are reasonable... just too many mouths to feed with so few chefs.

It's a problem that the government is choosing not to address, as they are trying to take on challenges that are easy and visible to the public (typical political admininstration BS).

I'd like to state that I am only 50% socialist :) and that I think the US has a unique opportunity to develop a hybrid of the many different heath care systems out there. If the powers-at-be could just stop arguing about protecting their interests, and instead start arguing about a solution.

The only way two sides can meet in the middle, is if they both want the same ultimate ending. If any side us unwilling to compromise, then it shows they are not interested in a lasting solution and just coming to the wedding for the reception and free booze.
 
friedchicken said:
Yes, but allowing private insurance and healthcare to run wild is not the answer- and because your scenario is not reasonable.

Number 1. Private Insurance companies are not non-profit. Therefore, there are incentives to bring on healthy people and deny coverage to high-risk applicants. (Is it fair to deny you and your fanily coverage because one of your parents has Alzheimers?)

Number 2. Even the healthy can get sick and be denied coverage. The private health companies are adept and creative for denying existing clients, or even diluting the amount of coverage. (Yes, we will pay for your surgery, but the hospital stay/bedside care is your problem.)

Number 3. Monopolistic markets and unregulated fees are not giving people enough options and are being forced to pay higher and higher premiums.

I currently live in Canada; and while the system is far from perfect, the problem here is the number of medical technicians and doctors supporting the system is in dire need of topping off. The level of care is there, the accessability to health coverage is excellent and the fees are reasonable... just too many mouths to feed with so few chefs.

It's a problem that the government is choosing not to address, as they are trying to take on challenges that are easy and visible to the public (typical political admininstration BS).

I'd like to state that I am only 50% socialist :) and that I think the US has a unique opportunity to develop a hybrid of the many different heath care systems out there. If the powers-at-be could just stop arguing about protecting their interests, and instead start arguing about a solution.

The only way two sides can meet in the middle, is if they both want the same ultimate ending. If any side us unwilling to compromise, then it shows they are not interested in a lasting solution and just coming to the wedding for the reception and free booze.
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My last surgery cost me personally $35,000 in the good ole USA and I HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE! Its sad how bad our system really is. That is unless you are extrememely wealthy and $35,000 is nothing to you.
 
friedchicken said:
Yes, but allowing private insurance and healthcare to run wild is not the answer- and because your scenario is not reasonable.

Number 1. Private Insurance companies are not non-profit. Therefore, there are incentives to bring on healthy people and deny coverage to high-risk applicants. (Is it fair to deny you and your fanily coverage because one of your parents has Alzheimers?)

Number 2. Even the healthy can get sick and be denied coverage. The private health companies are adept and creative for denying existing clients, or even diluting the amount of coverage. (Yes, we will pay for your surgery, but the hospital stay/bedside care is your problem.)

Number 3. Monopolistic markets and unregulated fees are not giving people enough options and are being forced to pay higher and higher premiums.

I currently live in Canada; and while the system is far from perfect, the problem here is the number of medical technicians and doctors supporting the system is in dire need of topping off. The level of care is there, the accessability to health coverage is excellent and the fees are reasonable... just too many mouths to feed with so few chefs.

It's a problem that the government is choosing not to address, as they are trying to take on challenges that are easy and visible to the public (typical political admininstration BS).

I'd like to state that I am only 50% socialist :) and that I think the US has a unique opportunity to develop a hybrid of the many different heath care systems out there. If the powers-at-be could just stop arguing about protecting their interests, and instead start arguing about a solution.

The only way two sides can meet in the middle, is if they both want the same ultimate ending. If any side us unwilling to compromise, then it shows they are not interested in a lasting solution and just coming to the wedding for the reception and free booze.
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I cannot speak for the Canadian system because I have never been there. What I explain is the European system, it is not a made up scenario, it is reality of what has happened to me and how the system works in Europe. Just like the USA there are asshole insurance companies that don't give a shit and deny coverage to its clients and in my opinion the private insurers are more corrupt in Europe than the USA. However it is still 10,000 times better than the public option.

for your points 1&2 read your policy before buying it.

For your point #3, all that needs to be done in the USA is let insurance companies sell across state lines. Instant result is no more monopolies.
 
DaedalusHelios said:
My last surgery cost me personally $35,000 in the good ole USA and I HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE! Its sad how bad our system really is. That is unless you are extrememely wealthy and $35,000 is nothing to you.
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That sucks. Was it a personal policy or supplied by your employer? Did you read into your policy to find out why they would not cover it? It has to be in your exclusions or you could sue the bastards.
 
caniba said:
That sucks. Was it a personal policy or supplied by your employer? Did you read into your policy to find out why they would not cover it? It has to be in your exclusions or you could sue the bastards.
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They denied care due to it being a pre-existing condition. I was born with it but it was not discovered until I was 23. I was using the same private insurance company since I was 15 so obviously its pre-existing since its a kidney condition that you are born with.

But $35,000 is nothing compared to more serious surgeries. My surgery was just 4 hours to complete and I stayed in the hospital 4 days after the operation.

But I must say the hospital food was not bad at all. It was almost as good as Boston Market which is impressive really.

They did leave me on Morphine injection for the first day and a half but I was mildly allergic to it so it just made me nauseous and it did not help with the pain because of it. The Doctor had to approve a switch of medicine so I had to just deal with the allergy until he approved a switch of pain meds for the first day and a half . :(

But the surgery was 100% successful.
 
I will add that I paid for my operation. I always pay bills even if I disagree with the fact that I had to pay so much. I cannot afford to have bad credit. I am not even married yet. :)
 
Thankfully you had the option. Some country's bureaucrats have barred those options. One of my family members was denied surgery under NHS and he had to come here to get it.
 
DaedalusHelios said:
They denied care due to it being a pre-existing condition. I was born with it but it was not discovered until I was 23. I was using the same private insurance company since I was 15 so obviously its pre-existing since its a kidney condition that you are born with.

But $35,000 is nothing compared to more serious surgeries. My surgery was just 4 hours to complete and I stayed in the hospital 4 days after the operation.

But I must say the hospital food was not bad at all. It was almost as good as Boston Market which is impressive really.

They did leave me on Morphine injection for the first day and a half but I was mildly allergic to it so it just made me nauseous and it did not help with the pain because of it. The Doctor had to approve a switch of medicine so I had to just deal with the allergy until he approved a switch of pain meds for the first day and a half . :(

But the surgery was 100% successful.
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I got lucky than. I was born with a condition that required surgery. Normally it is found when you are a baby, but in my case it was not discovered until I was 16. The surgery was done when I was 18 and it was $100,000 but the insurance covered it all.

If there ever is any change to the health care system, most definitely preexisting conditions need to be covered. Like we had a choice, we were born with the condition. It has to be covered regardless of what system we use. Hey we agree on something!:)
 
caniba said:
I cannot speak for the Canadian system because I have never been there. What I explain is the European system, it is not a made up scenario, it is reality of what has happened to me and how the system works in Europe. Just like the USA there are asshole insurance companies that don't give a shit and deny coverage to its clients and in my opinion the private insurers are more corrupt in Europe than the USA. However it is still 10,000 times better than the public option.

for your points 1&2 read your policy before buying it.

For your point #3, all that needs to be done in the USA is let insurance companies sell across state lines. Instant result is no more monopolies.
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It's not about reading the policy before you buy it. Born with a heart defect, or a situation such as the poster above- and you are not allowed fair health coverage. How is that a system that works?

And whether by state-by-state or national coverages- it makes no difference because the structure of the industry all leads to the same result. Companies will always increase to match rates, and never reduce rates to offer compeditive coverages. Thanks to the un-metered costs of drugs and malpractice suits. There is no way that a bottle of Ibuprofen or cough medicine should cost upwards of $7-8 a bottle.
 
friedchicken said:
It's not about reading the policy before you buy it. Born with a heart defect, or a situation such as the poster above- and you are not allowed fair health coverage. How is that a system that works?
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Read my above post, I am totaly against denying coverage for preexisting conditions.

friedchicken said:
And whether by state-by-state or national coverages- it makes no difference because the structure of the industry all leads to the same result. Companies will always increase to match rates, and never reduce rates to offer compeditive coverages. Thanks to the un-metered costs of drugs and malpractice suits. There is no way that a bottle of Ibuprofen or cough medicine should cost upwards of $7-8 a bottle.
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Right now the health insurance in most states in a monopoly, but if an insurance company from an neighboring state can sell coverage in that state competition is introduced into the market benefiting the consumer. Drugs is one thing but malpractice insurance adds tremendously to costs, and yes I agree regardless of competition.
 
beowulf7 said:
On a health care related note, I LOL'd when Joe Wilson called out Obama and told him "You lie!" :D
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Yeah, it is funny the same way that guy from Monty Python and the Holy Grail is funny when he yells "burn her anyway! A witch! A witch!" I'd be more comfortable with Larry the Cable Guy making policy than the Republicans leftovers from the last election.
 
w1retap said:
Thankfully you had the option. Some country's bureaucrats have barred those options. One of my family members was denied surgery under NHS and he had to come here to get it.
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They do the same operation that I had in Canada. But they use the older version that takes twice as long to complete. Mine was robotic so I only have a few little scars. Mine was better cosmetically but holds a price premium. I opted for it because I could get back to work faster. But it turned out I wasn't covered so my grandfather was the one that stepped in. He thought it was unfair for me to loose my savings and car just to pay for it.

You see my grandfather has socialized medical benefits from the government for his involvement in the military. Also he gets medical and dental from the Post Office too. He grew up in a time benefits were better so a socialized system had no validity as it would simply overlap the system that was in place.

But in our time the USA medical system is a maverick.:p It lives by its own rules! :eek:

Price regulation is non-existent. The only price regulation is within "in network" services so they can argue about the cost to the insurance companies. The reason our system is broken is not from the doctors or workers in the industry. Its from the people that don't see what overcharging does to families and individuals on the bottom. It gives you bankruptsy. Not from doing something wrong like running up credit cards or not paying your bills. It comes from getting sick and being charged rediculous fees because of it.
 
caniba said:
Ya, no shit. But you have to admit that that takes dinosaur balls to yell that out to the President of the United States in a joint session speech.
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It takes an idiot since the bill requires illegals to buy insurance and not receive services for free like the current system does due to "Good Samaritan" Laws enacted at the Emergency room.
 
It did come out of my inheritance though so its both me and my grandfather that paid for it really I guess.
 
caniba said:
It doesn't matter. Your insurance should have covered it, that is why you pay monthly premiums.
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The funny thing is they did cover the doctor appointments with the GP and the specialist. It also covers the testing too. But not the surgery. And of course I had copays too.
 
The-UselessNoob said:
I would just like to say that I am very sorry for dragging out the whole healthcare thing here, but it is rather vexing when people start attacking Canadian healthcare for no apparent reason.
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These attacks come from ignorance, quite sad really.
 
Blackstone said:
Yeah, it is funny the same way that guy from Monty Python and the Holy Grail is funny when he yells "burn her anyway! A witch! A witch!" I'd be more comfortable with Larry the Cable Guy making policy than the Republicans leftovers from the last election.
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I feel the same way about every career politician on capital hill. Rupublican... Democrat, they're both scumbags and should be kicked out of office when election time rolls around.

Between TARP and the latest bailout, they clearly don't know what the hell they're doing. They're seizing an opportunity, at the expense of the tax payers, to fund their pet projects and putting us into a deeper hole :( People really need to stop playing partisan politics, its screwing over the general public
 
DaedalusHelios said:
Ahhh your smarter than to think because they use some sources that all media uses, does not mean they use those sources exclusively.

Fox News is sensational television like "Inside Edition" was. Bill O'Reilly came from "Inside Edition" even. He was their main news anchor.

Forgive this clip from Youtube but "Inside Edition" matches its intellectual level just fine.

LINK
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lol and every other cable news network (or ANY news media for that matter) isn't sensational? give me a break

I'd gladly watch fox over some other networks after the whole van jones scandal. It's amazing that they let their partisanship get in the way of reporting news that people should be aware of. I'm not giving fox a free pass by any means, as I'm sure they're just as guilty (I don't really watch the "news"... C-Span ftw), but the whole media blackout surrounding this thing just amazes me... and even after he resigned, they said it was about "calling names" and the 911 truther junk. Not a single mention about his blatent racist, anti-white propaganda :rolleyes:

For someone who claims to be a moderate, you certainly don't sound like one
 
The-UselessNoob said:
Ummm.. sorry, but what do you mean by "can't even get simple treatments and surgeries"? How is the Canadian system a joke? because you say it is? because everyone can access it? I don't pretend it is perfect, because it definitely isn't, but why the hate for it? I mean you might be inconvenienced by the fact that it is a bit slower if you get universal healthcare, but why be so absolutely full of spite?
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based upon the people coming here for pretty much basic stuff says it's a joke. If you GOOGLE it, the results are shocking.....
 
YeuEmMaiMai said:
based upon the people coming here for pretty much basic stuff says it's a joke. If you GOOGLE it, the results are shocking.....
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ITT: We don't back up anecdotal observations and everything on the Internets is the truth.
 
Draax said:
ITT: We don't back up anecdotal observations and everything on the Internets is the truth.
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lol

only someone with a limited IQ would say something like that............I mean after all the mainstream media is 100% accurate and they never lie but the people who actually suffer under it would never in their life think about sharing their stories with people via the Internet.......lol
 
YeuEmMaiMai said:
lol

only someone with a limited IQ would say something like that............I mean after all the mainstream media is 100% accurate and they never lie but the people who actually suffer under it would never in their life think about sharing their stories with people via the Internet.......lol
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I am one of these people who "suffer" under universal healthcare. I will continue to pay less, for better results, thanks.
 
In summary, I will buy a private plan ANY DAY over the universal mess-care plans out there.


NOW......I suggest the thread be locked unless we're on topic.
 
caniba said:
Ya, no shit. But you have to admit that that takes dinosaur balls to yell that out to the President of the United States in a joint session speech.
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That was awsome. Am I the only one who remembers Dems openly booing Bush during his speaches? I wish we had more true reprentation like that man instead of these spineless turds we have now.
 
mstersmith1 said:
That was awsome. Am I the only one who remembers Dems openly booing Bush during his speaches? I wish we had more true reprentation like that man instead of these spineless turds we have now.
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Problem is the Democrats waited until the public shared a dislike with Bush and his administration... I'm a Democrat and I will tell you one thing, despite it being uncalled for it was a ballsy move and I wish we saw more of these from both sides of the fence (regardless of how right or wrong their stance is)... And as far as I am concerned, the Democrats in office are bigger cowards... They wait until there is a strong public conviction before they all speak up loudly about anything, all afraid of losing their fat government paychecks (granted the Republicans are in the same boat and are catering to their regions voters' views), at least they tend to be passionate and have some fight about it...

Let's face it, no matter what side of the fence you sit on (or if your sitting on the fence, which has to hurt), all of our politicians are buddies putting on one giant facade. Sure there are some who are smart enough to go against the voters who put them in office to push through a bill that they truly believe will benefit our country most... But on the flip side there are probably plenty of ones who are dumb enough to honestly believe in some of their regions craziest and far out there (left or right extreme) views...

But at the end of the day neither of them make a difference, for they are a very small fraction of a great majority of game players who know how to play the game all to well... Ever wonder why most serious movies that have scenes with our past or current Presidents and big political figures have such wonderful casting choices for the role? Because they see the act and know how to represent it well, they learned it in acting class after all.

Our government should be in the movies, in the past, and far from the present... The real shame here is, this is what the people want, they want a side to pick a fight with, they want it to be a never ending soap opera being funded by their tax dollars and broadcast by the mass media for countless hours daily. And the scariest part, they want their political affiliates to use their brains for them...

I don't care who is in office at this point, no government, socialist, communist, or even our "great democracy" is going to bring industrialization, innovation, and and chance to move forward. It is the people who can only do that, and they have already checked out of the building and if they are still harboring a lit light bulb in that head of theirs they probably are doing it for their own damn welfare while screwing someone else over in the process....

On a final note, it's fine to fight for what your believe in, but if your just supporting the giant fence from one side all the time, not putting the time in to research the issues legitimately, then eventually this fence is going to grow so big that it will come toppling down on top of us. I emphasize the word us, because if or when this country does fail, we all lose regardless of how die hard will were about our political party...
 
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