Bill Gives President Emergency Control of Internet

[scaarbelly]

You must be blind because other countries with government run health care spends less on health care than we do (by about 40%) and get far better results than our system.

I asked if you thought the government could run anything more efficiently than the private sector. Not what other countries spend on health care. We also spend the most on education, oh wait that is already run by the government.

Have you ever lived where there is universal health care and gone through the system? I have, so don't tell me how great it is, it SUCKS. It is only good when you are in an accident.

 

[DaedalusHelios]

You must be blind because other countries with government run health care spends less on health care than we do (by about 40%) and get far better results than our system.

Yes, its statistically shown through all independent research groups and all peer reviewed resources. I don't think the facts sway these people. They just believe what they want to believe. If they see their logic failing they simply go back to the source that lied to them in the first place for more reassurance that they were somehow right in the first place. The thing ignorance hates most is admitting it was wrong.

 

[scaarbelly]

Yes, its statistically shown through all independent research groups and all peer reviewed resources.

I have asked you many times already to enlighten us and show you resources. All you can do is name calling and say how ignorant everybody is that does not think like you. We will never agree on these topics, but we can have an intelligent debate about them. Give you personal experience or a link to some research or peer review resource that backs your ideology up. Or do you just like making shit up.

 

[thunderstruck!]

Just take a look at how much other countries spend on health care as a % of GDP and then take a look at ours.

Here are some facts about the high costs of our disastrous health care system:

http://www.nchc.org/documentsFact SheetsFact Sheet - Cost 8-10-09.pdf

 

[thunderstruck!]

http://www.nchc.org/documents/Fact Sheets/Fact Sheet - Cost 8-10-09.pdf

 

[beowulf7]

I never knew [H] was a hotbed of right wing extremism. This is scary stuff.

Either the majority here are extremist, or maybe, just perhaps, it's you who is the extremist. Think about it.

You must be blind because other countries with government run health care spends less on health care than we do (by about 40%) and get far better results than our system.

I do not envy those countries, like Canada, where the "effective" tax rate is well over 40%.

 

[DaedalusHelios]

Either the majority here are extremist, or maybe, just perhaps, it's you who is the extremist. Think about it.

OMG My views are considered moderate American political views. It is a fact. If you read my posts and talk to anyone that understands american politics. Obviously you don't understand what that is.

 

[MavericK]

I never knew [H] was a hotbed of right wing extremism. This is scary stuff.

I guess you've never visited the Soapbox before...

 

[scaarbelly]

Just take a look at how much other countries spend on health care as a % of GDP and then take a look at ours.

Here are some facts about the high costs of our disastrous health care system:

http://www.nchc.org/documentsFact SheetsFact Sheet - Cost 8-10-09.pdf

Yes, our healthcare system needs some major changes and is expensive as hell and yes we already know that, but why is it so expensive? How would government control make it cheaper?

 

[friedchicken]

I do not envy those countries, like Canada, where the "effective" tax rate is well over 40%.

The effective tax rates in Canada are nowhere close to over 40% as you would say. You should probably do some basic homework before you throw out values to support your positions. Clearly, you know nothing of our neighbour to the north if you believe that half a paycheck is gone. At least the Canadian government isn't trying to control every aspect of your life on (and off the Internet). I would say that is an enviable place to raise a family.

Well, I've done the simple homework for you. Ontario is not the most expensive place to live, but it is the most popular. British Columbia is also a great place with similar income tax rates.

If you are making $40,000 in Ontario, your tax breakdown is as follows:

Federal Tax - $40,000 @ 15% = $6,000

Provincial Tax - $36,848 @ 6.05% = $2,229.30
Provincial Tax - $3,152 @ 9.15% = $288.41

Totals:
Earnings Before Taxes- $40,000.00
Fed and Prov Taxes - $8,517.71
---------------------------------------------------
Earnings After Taxes - $31,482.29 (or close to 22%)

If you are making 100,000 in Ontario, your tax breakdown is as follows:

Federal Tax - $40,726 @ 15% = $6,108.90
Federal Tax - $40,726 @ 22% = $8,959.72
Federal Tax - $18,548 @ 26% = $4,822.48

Provincial Tax - $36,848 @ 6.05% = $2,229.30
Provincial Tax - $36,850 @ 9.15% = $3,371.78
Provincial Tax - $26,302 @ 11.16% = $2,935.30

Totals:
Earnings Before Taxes- $100,000.00
Fed and Prov Taxes - $28,427.48
---------------------------------------------------
Earnings After Taxes - $71572.52 (or close to 28%)


*Source: http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/fq/txrts-eng.html

 

[Retronym]

I never knew [H] was a hotbed of right wing extremism. This is scary stuff.

Doesn't it suck when you inadvertently stray from Daily KOS? There's like...new opinions and ideas and stuff. Not just everyone agreeing with each other without fact checking.

Scary.

 

[w1retap]

He should report us to Maobama through the turn in your neighbor program.

 

[nathancipher]

Maobama.

Cute. You make that up yourself?

/Not an Obama fan, but come on now. Mao? MAO? Really?

 

[w1retap]

Cute. You make that up yourself?

/Not an Obama fan, but come on now. Mao? MAO? Really?

Thanks. It just kind of flowed and fit right in with his agenda.

 

[NewYork]

He should report us to Maobama through the turn in your neighbor program.

"Us", you stand alone you crazy bastard.

 

[w1retap]

"Us", you stand alone you crazy bastard.

Probably. That's fine. I don't take orders from governments.

 

[beowulf7]

OMG My views are considered moderate American political views. It is a fact. If you read my posts and talk to anyone that understands american politics. Obviously you don't understand what that is.

So anyone who disagrees with your alleged moderate views is a RW extremist?

The effective tax rates in Canada are nowhere close to over 40% as you would say. You should probably do some basic homework before you throw out values to support your positions. Clearly, you know nothing of our neighbour to the north if you believe that half a paycheck is gone. At least the Canadian government isn't trying to control every aspect of your life on (and off the Internet). I would say that is an enviable place to raise a family.

Well, I've done the simple homework for you. Ontario is not the most expensive place to live, but it is the most popular. British Columbia is also a great place with similar income tax rates.

If you are making $40,000 in Ontario, your tax breakdown is as follows:

Federal Tax - $40,000 @ 15% = $6,000

Provincial Tax - $36,848 @ 6.05% = $2,229.30
Provincial Tax - $3,152 @ 9.15% = $288.41

Totals:
Earnings Before Taxes- $40,000.00
Fed and Prov Taxes - $8,517.71
---------------------------------------------------
Earnings After Taxes - $31,482.29 (or close to 22%)

If you are making 100,000 in Ontario, your tax breakdown is as follows:

Federal Tax - $40,726 @ 15% = $6,108.90
Federal Tax - $40,726 @ 22% = $8,959.72
Federal Tax - $18,548 @ 26% = $4,822.48

Provincial Tax - $36,848 @ 6.05% = $2,229.30
Provincial Tax - $36,850 @ 9.15% = $3,371.78
Provincial Tax - $26,302 @ 11.16% = $2,935.30

Totals:
Earnings Before Taxes- $100,000.00
Fed and Prov Taxes - $28,427.48
---------------------------------------------------
Earnings After Taxes - $71572.52 (or close to 28%)


*Source: http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/fq/txrts-eng.html

Maybe I shouldn't have picked on Canada, whose tax rate is above America's, BTW. (It's over 30% vs. America's under 30%.) But look at the European countries whose tax rate is over 50%!

Link

 

[scaarbelly]

When considering taxes you must also consider the Value Added Tax (like sales tax but charged on all goods and services) rates that most countries have at around 20%. This is like a flat tax on everything you spend money on, on top of the personal income tax previously listed. Also consider that most countries have very high taxes on fuel making gas 2 to 3 times more expensive than in the USA.

VAT tax rates

Canada actually does not need to charge high taxes for their social programs because the are a physically large country with many natural resources (creating revenue) and a small population.

 

[nightfawn]

We're gonna wish he had emergency control of the internet when the internet materializes into Godzilla and tries to destroy the world.

 

[scaarbelly]

We're gonna wish he had emergency control of the internet when the internet materializes into Godzilla and tries to destroy the world.

I thought it was Capt Crunch.

 

[beowulf7]

When considering taxes you must also consider the Value Added Tax (like sales tax but charged on all goods and services) rates that most countries have at around 20%. This is like a flat tax on everything you spend money on, on top of the personal income tax previously listed. Also consider that most countries have very high taxes on fuel making gas 2 to 3 times more expensive than in the USA.

VAT tax rates

Canada actually does not need to charge high taxes for their social programs because the are a physically large country with many natural resources (creating revenue) and a small population.

Yes, tax in other countries is pretty bad compared to ours. A friend from Rome said their sales tax rate is close to 20%, depending on the product.

I thought it was Capt Crunch.

Or Sky Net.

 

[Draax]

Yes, tax in other countries is pretty bad compared to ours. A friend from Rome said their sales tax rate is close to 20%, depending on the product.

Just wait until the HST comes into play.

 

[Outamyhead]

Why on earth would the president ever need (legitimate) emergency control of the internet?

What the heck is the Security+, and Network+ good for then if I need another damn qualification from a government that has problems doing what the qualification claims?

 

[DaedalusHelios]

Doesn't it suck when you inadvertently stray from Daily KOS? There's like...new opinions and ideas and stuff. Not just everyone agreeing with each other without fact checking.

Scary.

The fact checking is lacking since most sources used are youtube and extremist groups themselves. So here so you are wrong again. Quit taking a stab at people without understanding the situation. Its like Fox News.

 

[DaedalusHelios]

I guess I should stop feeding the trolls. [H] likes to keep them healthy.

 

[scaarbelly]

The fact checking is lacking since most sources used are youtube and extremist groups themselves. So here so you are wrong again. Quit taking a stab at people without understanding the situation. Its like Fox News.

Which extremist group is putting this info out? Why is a video of the person in question shown in entirety, in their own words BS? These people flat out say they are extremists out to change the system to their fucked up vision of wealth redistribution. How do you defend that?

You imply that Fox News, which you probably have never seen, does not fact check and just makes shit up. OK, prove it. Show some evidence that caused you believe that. Or do you just drink the Coolaid from the Huffington Post, Daily KOS and MSNBC? If you think something doesn't sound right look it up, it is not that hard.

 

[DaedalusHelios]

Which extremist group is putting this info out? Why is a video of the person in question shown in entirety, in their own words BS? These people flat out say they are extremists out to change the system to their fucked up vision of wealth redistribution. How do you defend that?

You imply that Fox News, which you probably have never seen, does not fact check and just makes shit up. OK, prove it. Show some evidence that caused you believe that. Or do you just drink the Coolaid from the Huffington Post, Daily KOS and MSNBC? If you think something doesn't sound right look it up, it is not that hard.

I stated before that I use AP(Associated Press) and Reuters. They are considered unbias compared to all other options in journalism. Media from the Left Wing and Media from the Right Wing both pull stories from AP and Reuters and then put there explaination or spin on them. If you watch media from both sides you will see AP and Reuters as a source constantly. Just ask anybody with a degree in journalism and they will tell you the same thing.

I'm glad I could clear that up for you.

 

[scaarbelly]

Thanks for the example of why you think Fox News makes their stories up without fact checking.

 

[nilepez]

Wonderful. I'm well aware of all the arguments you put forth. I'm one who sees the Constitution as it was intended (by reading the writings of the many founding fathers) and we should not be removing rights from others like we've seen in the past several decades and what our current president describes his agenda is. I could give a shit less about what some "scholar" believes, because the majority of the time they're the ones claiming it's a living breathing document that needs to be changed to fit their agenda for "social justice". I'd rather see it maintain in it's present form in order to prevent tyranny and more theft of my rights/wealth/property.

And what about those founding fathers who disagreed with your beliefs?

If it's so cut and dry, why do we need a SCOTUS? It's obvious. The 2nd amendment means I have the right to carry, RPGs, bombers and nukes. We the people also need the right to own unmanned drones.

Is that what you believe?

 

[scaarbelly]

And what about those founding fathers who disagreed with your beliefs?

Everybody has the right to believe what ever they want, voice that opinion and vote for whoever they want. 1st amendment is pretty clear and I think we can agree that this is a good thing.

If it's so cut and dry, why do we need a SCOTUS? It's obvious. The 2nd amendment means I have the right to carry, RPGs, bombers and nukes. We the people also need the right to own unmanned drones.

Is that what you believe?

You do know that we have three branches of government, for reasons exactly like this?

 

[w1retap]

heh, it's also apparently clear we cannot infringe upon others rights through our actions, which they talked about in depth. I wonder if nilepez actually has read the writings before. He's pulling up questions that have already been answered by them. Debates like this are utterly hopeless when you can't even cover new topics that haven't already been answered. =/

 

[dr.stevil]

OMG My views are considered moderate American political views.

hahahaha, good one

 

[nilepez]

So anyone who disagrees with your alleged moderate views is a RW extremist?


Maybe I shouldn't have picked on Canada, whose tax rate is above America's, BTW. (It's over 30% vs. America's under 30%.) But look at the European countries whose tax rate is over 50%!

Link

The question is do you get more bang for the buck or not.

American healthcare is slightly better than Canada which spends half of what we do. Our system is broken and maintaining the status quo isn't going to fix things. With that said, part of the problem is lawsuits and that also must be fixed. IMO, a practical solution also means all adults must have insurance. Without that, we'll still have uninsured people who end up in an emergency room and either the government will pay or the hospital gets stiffed, which drives up the costs for everyone else.

 

[w1retap]

If you saw how many people just FUCKING POUR into our hospitals from Ontario, you'd shit a brick. They can't even get simple treatments and surgeries. Cancer treatment? Forget about it. Angioplasty? Forget about it. Canada's system is a joke. My family members from Toronto have to go to Buffalo NY or here near Detroit MI to get their specialist appointments.

 

[nilepez]

heh, it's also apparently clear we cannot infringe upon others rights through our actions, which they talked about in depth. I wonder if nilepez actually has read the writings before. He's pulling up questions that have already been answered by them. Debates like this are utterly hopeless when you can't even cover new topics that haven't already been answered. =/

So let me get this straight. You're saying the founding fathers said we needed guns to take down the government if it becomes overbearing, but those people can't carry any arms that could hurt other citizens?

Come on w1retap answer the question. Do we have the right to have RPGs and tanks? what about Automatic Machine guns? Can I own a Bomber (and the bombs to go with it)?

And FYI, just because you had some debate some place with someone, doesn't mean you've answered the question...unless, of course, you're some sort of noted expert who's been published.

 

[w1retap]

So let me get this straight. You're saying the founding fathers said we needed guns to take down the government if it becomes overbearing, but those people can't carry any arms that could hurt other citizens?

Come on w1retap answer the question. Do we have the right to have RPGs and tanks? what about Automatic Machine guns? Can I own a Bomber (and the bombs to go with it)?

And FYI, just because you had some debate some place with someone, doesn't mean you've answered the question...unless, of course, you're some sort of noted expert who's been published.

I'd stop making yourself look uneducated.

To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of the people always posses arms... -Richard Henry Lee, Additional Letters From The Federal Farmer, 1788

The Constitution [shall] be never construed to ... prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. -Samuel Adams, Massachusetts' U.S. Constitution ratification convention, 1788

Let us remember that if we suffer tamely a lawless attack upon our liberty, we encourage it. -Samuel Adams

The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword, because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force far superior to any band of regular troops... -Noah Webster, An Examination of The Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, Philadelphia, 1787

No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. -Thomas Jefferson, Proposed Virginia Constitution, 1776

Arms in the hands of individual citizens [may] be used at individual discretion ... in private self-defense... -John Adams, A Defense of the Constitution of Government of the United States of America, 1788

...[A]rms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property... Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them. -Thomas Paine, Thoughts On Defensive War, 1775

Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. -Thomas Paine

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion. -Edmund Burke, Speech at country meeting of Buckinghamshire, 1784

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. When you give up that force you are ruined. -Patrick Henry, Virginia's U.S. Constitution ratification convention

If I were an American, as I am an Englishman, while a foreign troop was landed in my country, I would never lay down my arms - never - never - never! You cannot conquer America. -William Pitt, Speech, November 18, 1777

Necessity is the plea for infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. -William Pitt

(The Constitution preserves) the advantage of being armed which Americans posses over the people of almost every other nation ... (where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. -James Madison, The Federalist, No.46

A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercise I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion on your walks. -Thomas Jefferson, August 19, 1785

"The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself." - Ben Franklin

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Thomas Jefferson

"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." - George Washington

 

[nilepez]

I'd stop making yourself look uneducated.

That's why we love you wi1retap. When all else fails, you resort to personal attacks.
Thanks for living up to your stellar reputation.

 

[NewYork]

That's why we love you wi1retap. When all else fails, you resort to personal attacks.
Thanks for living up to your stellar reputation.

+1

All he ever throws out are his skewed opinions on shit. Usually while manipulating facts with quotes he doesn't fully understand himself, and then when all else fails, he just calls you names.

 

[w1retap]

That's why we love you wi1retap. When all else fails, you resort to personal attacks.
Thanks for living up to your stellar reputation.

Refute the founding fathers. "Oh, they didn't mean that". Just like Obama never actually means anything he says either.

 

[DaedalusHelios]

Thanks for the example of why you think Fox News makes their stories up without fact checking.

Ahhh your smarter than to think because they use some sources that all media uses, does not mean they use those sources exclusively.

Fox News is sensational television like "Inside Edition" was. Bill O'Reilly came from "Inside Edition" even. He was their main news anchor.

Forgive this clip from Youtube but "Inside Edition" matches its intellectual level just fine.

LINK