ASUS/BENQ LightBoost owners!! Zero motion blur setting!

Mark Rejhon

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
1,395
CRT Fast Motion on LCD / Perfectly-Sharp Pans

Guys, if you use a new 120Hz monitor (or are considering one) to play video games a lot (and your eyes were used to a CRT before, and didn't mind it), there's now a way to shatter the LCD pixel persistence barrier! CRT quality motion in an LCD!

---

IMPORTANT: You need a supported 120 Hz Monitor

LightBoost HOWTO - If you own a newer-model ASUS or BENQ 120 Hz Monitor
Samsung HOWTO - If you own a newer-model Samsung 120 Hz Monitor
Media Coverage - Coverage by magazines, bloggers, pro gamers (Team Exile 5 loves LightBoost!)

There's a recent discovered tweak/adjustment for a feature originally designed for 3D (LightBoost), that has an amazing side effect of completely eliminating perceptible motion blur for 2D! You get faster reaction times in FPS games, since you can identify enemies faster during fast turns without motion blur. This high-speed video proof of pixel persistence being bypassed (1000 fps) demonstrate a specially configured LightBoost strobe backlight successfully bypassing LCD pixel persistence as the motion blur limiting factor:

High Sped Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD5gjAs1A2s

The backlight is turned off while waiting for pixel transitions (unseen by human eyes), and the backlight is strobed only on fully-refreshed LCD frames (seen by human eyes). The strobes can be shorter than pixel transitions, breaking the pixel persistence barrier!

These nVidia LightBoost backlights are normally used to brighten 3D Vision images, but they were discovered to have a side effect of eliminating motion blur even for 2D! As a result, many video gamers have started forcing LightBoost in 2D mode (even without the 3D glasses) to get the zero motion blur benefit.

PixPerAn Tests on BENQ XL2411T and ASUS VG278H

baseline - 60 Hz mode (16.7ms continuously-shining frame)
50% less motion blur (2x clearer) - 120 Hz mode (8.33ms continuously-shining frame)
60% less motion blur (2.4x clearer) - 144 Hz mode (6.94ms continuously-shining frame)
85% less motion blur (7x clearer) - 120 Hz LightBoost, set to 100% (2.4ms frame strobe flashes)
92% less motion blur (12x clearer) - 120 Hz LightBoost, set to 10% (1.4ms frame strobe flashes)

NOTE: You can also turn on/off the CRT-style LightBoost strobe backlight mode, whenever you don't want it. Manufacturers should make it better advertised for motion blur, and easier to turn on/off!

---

Articles

Several articles just appeared over the last few weeks -- and a few reviewers (e.g. pcmonitors.info) are now including testing of LightBoost in their next monitor reviews.

TFT Central
Link: Motion Blur Reduction Backlights

NewEgg and ASUS
Link: YouTube Interview: ASUS and NewEgg reps discussing LightBoost and motion blur

TechNGaming Review Article
Link: Eliminate Motion Blur While Gaming With nVidia LightBoost!

3D Vision Blog
Link: Taking Advantage of the Lightboost Technology for 2D 120Hz Gaming
Link: Calibrating Picture of Lightboost For Better Color

PC Games Hardware (German gaming magazine)
Link: Nvidia Lightboost Strobe Hack

PCMonitors.info (mentions the LightBoost effect)
Link: Asus VG248QE Monitor Review

Team Exile 5 (Professional sponsored competition gamers!)
Link: nVidia GeForce GTX 660 Ti and nVidia LightBoost Technology

More need to begin coverage of these amazing modern strobe backlights, beginning with their next testing article! Some professional gamers (e.g. Team Exile 5) are endorsing it now. The lack of motion blur provides a reaction time advantage, because you can see everything clearly during fast motion, allowing you to react to enemies faster in online fast-action FPS games. Team Fortress 2, Battlefield 3, Counter Strike, Quake Live, etc.

---

Gaming Styles That Benefit

Example of fast game play styles that benefit from zero motion blur:
-- Fast 180-degree flick turns in FPS shooting, great for Quake Live
-- Shooting while turning, without stopping turning (easier on CRT or LightBoost)
-- Close-up strafing, especially circle strafing, you aim better.
-- Running while looking at the ground (e.g. hunting for tiny objects quickly).
-- Identifying multiple far-away enemies or small targets, while turning fast
-- Playing fast characters such as "Scout" in Team Fortress 2
-- High-speed low passes, such as low helicoptor flybys in Battlefield 3, you aim better.

For a long time, some gamers have noticed that CRT 60fps@60Hz still has less motion blur than LCD 120fps@120Hz. Not anymore: The CRT-quality perfect motion now available on LightBoost LCD displays, is a huge benefit for those gamers who have played on a CRT for a long time, and have never found a "good enough LCD" without motion blur.

---

Forum Buzz

There are many testimonials on many forums at the moment, so there's been many, many reports from enthusiac video gamers. It does not benefit other usage much (e.g. programming, web design, PhotoShop), but if you're a big time gamer who have used CRT's, then LightBoost is finally making some CRT die-hard's happy:
original post (Transsive)
Then yesterday I, for some reason, disabled the 3d and noticed there was no ghosting to be spotted at all in titan quest. It's like playing on my old CRT.
original post (Inu)
I can confirm this works on BENQ XL2420TX
EDIT: And OMG i can play scout so much better now in TF2, this is borderline cheating.
original post (TerrorHead)
Thanks for this, it really works! Just tried it on my VG278H. Its like a CRT now!
original post (Vega)
Oh my, I just got Skyrim AFK camera spinning (which I used to test LCD's versus the [Sony CRT] FW900) to run without stutters and VSYNC locked to 120. This Benq with Lightboost is just as crystal clear if not clearer than the FW900 motion. I am in awe. More testing tomorrow. Any of my doubts about this Lightboost technology have been vaporized! I've been playing around with this fluid motion on this monitor for like 6-hours straight, that is how impressive it is.
OCN post (Baxter299)
way to go vega enjoyed your review and pics ..thanks for taking the time .got my VG248QE last friday .replacing my fw900 witch is finally taking a rest in my closet .
OCN post (Romir)
Thanks for the timely review Vega.
I went ahead and opened mine and WOW, it really does feel like my FW900. I haven't tried a game yet but it's down right eerie seeing 2d text move without going blurry.
Cat said:
QuakeLive forum post (Cat)
With my Asus VG278HE at 120Hz and Lightboost (the Lightboost registry hack doesn't currently support 144Hz) playing at 1080p I am pretty much brutalizing my competition. Even with its 2-5ms input lag, which is worse than the 1ms of my old 120Hz monitor the difference with Lightboost is so huge the input lag literally becomes a non-issue. The only thing that matters now that I don't experience any motion blur is my true reaction time.
The FW900 is a famous 24" widescreen CRT that has been a long-time favourite of CRT die-hards. If you were used to CRT gaming in the past -- and is very sensitive to motion blur -- the motion blur problem has now been fully solved on these LightBoost monitors!

Even pro competition gamers such as Team Exile 5 likes LightBoost, see Team Exile 5's review and their YouTube video. There's other reviewers and articles too.

One warning though, you do need a very powerful GPU capable of running at 120fps@120Hz, or you don't get the full benefits of LightBoost during video games. And yes, it's TN color quality, not as good as IPS color quality. But again, we're talking about the best possible motion clarity here! And for users who need that!

---

List of Supported 120 Hz Computer Monitors

Asus monitors: VG248QE, VG278H, VG278HE (LightBoost instructions)
BENQ monitors: XL2411T, XL2420T, XL2420TX, XL2720T (LightBoost instructions)
ACER monitors: HN274H (LightBoost instructions)
Samsung monitors: 700D, 750D, 950D (Alternate HOWTO)
If you are buying today (March 2013), get the LightBoost monitors, far less input lag than Samsung. For other displays, see List of 120Hz and 144Hz Computer Monitors

Blur Busters Blog -- www.blurbusters.com -- blog about eliminating motion blur on LCD's.

---

Stability Fix & VSYNC OFF

This is important for convenience, after following the LightBoost instructions:

TIP: Improving Convenience, Stability & Eliminating “Control+T”:
Once you’ve verified LightBoost works (Step 12), and the registry tweak was already installed (Step 4), you can make LightBoost “stick” by going to nVidia Control Panel and disabling “Enable Stereoscopic 3D” (clear the checkbox in Step 8). If the screen did not flicker when doing this, LightBoost is still enabled even after disabling 3D!
– Games launch in 2D without needing Control+T
– Driver stability is improved in this mode, less freezing occurs.
-- VSYNC OFF now works much more reliably, reducing input lag, fps higher than Hz.
(Note: Some games may automatically switch resolutions; make sure it stays at 120 Hz)
Occasionally (only on some troublesome systems), certain games such as Battlefield 3 insist on switching to a non-LightBoost compatible refresh rate. This can be overriden by using ToastyX's Custom Resolution Utility, deleting the EDID extension block, deleting other 1920x1080 refresh rates, and adding a 1920x1080 120Hz refresh rate containing a Vertical Total of 1149. This will force stubborn games to always use LightBoost in a stable manner (assuming you've also followed the above tip, too).
.
.
.
______________________________

Addendum: Alternate Easy ToastyX LightBoost Instructions

There's a new set of instructions that allows you to enable LightBoost without INF, without REG, and without an emitter: ToastyX, maker of Custom Resolution Utility, posted some new instructions, which is ready for beta testing (still requires nVidia). These instructions also works better in enabling LightBoost for surround-monitor setups, too.
 
Last edited:

Vega

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2004
Messages
6,369
Woa, this sounds like great news. Now, how to get it to work at 144 Hz, that would be incredible. There must be some way.
 

mdrejhon

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 9, 2009
Messages
128
Woa, this sounds like great news. Now, how to get it to work at 144 Hz, that would be incredible. There must be some way.
120Hz@strobed, looks much better than 144Hz@non-strobed.
CRT being a strobed technology, 60fps@60Hz (strobed) has less motion blur than traditional LCD 120fps@120Hz (non-strobed).

So 144Hz isn't as big as it may seem.
For single-player videogames, I'd rather have 85Hz@strobed than 120Hz@non-strobed
Strobed (CRT) looks much smoother, it has less motion blur.

For strobed displays (CRT's or strobed backlights), refresh rate does not affects motion blur.
Instead, in this situation, motion blur is directly proportional to the strobe length.
This is for situations when your game is displaying framerate matching refresh rate (fps = Hz).
There no motion blur difference between 60fps@60Hz strobed and 144fps@144Hz strobed, if strobes is the same length (e.g. 1ms)
Shorter strobes means less motion blur, regardless of refresh rate.
(That's also why short-persistence CRT's have less motion blur)

So 144 Hz doesn't matter unless you want less input lag.
To avoid getting an excessively powerful GPU, while having 100% of benefits of zero motion blur:
(1) High enough refresh rate (= strobe rate) to be above your flicker fusion threshold, and not bother your eyes.
(2) Low enough refresh rate (= strobe rate) to allow your GPU to run full framerate @ refresh rate
That way, you don't need a GTX680 SLI or a GTX690 to get the "perfect CRT motion effect"
if you can live with 85fps@85Hz strobed (e.g. single player where input lag doesn't matter as much).

That said, I agree, the strobe rate should be configurable to match the refresh rate!
 
Last edited:

Vega

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2004
Messages
6,369
I wasn't speaking about 144 Hz non-strobed. You want 144 Hz strobed if you can get it, none of the other options. There would be no reason not to try and get 144 Hz strobed on a 144 Hz monitor if it is possible. There should be no reason you cannot unless the monitors design will not allow it to strobe that fast and is physically limited to 120 Hz. If its just a driver issue, hopefully that can be worked around.

In this case a refresh rate jump from 120 Hz to 144 Hz if strobed wouldn't significantly change the motion blur, but it would feel smoother. I've had the 144 Hz version and set it between 144 Hz and 120 Hz and the motion blur was the same of course, but the 144 Hz did feel smoother.

Just like I could tell the difference between 120 Hz and 150 Hz on my FW900, albeit a very slight change.
 

mdrejhon

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 9, 2009
Messages
128
In this case a refresh rate jump from 120 Hz to 144 Hz if strobed wouldn't significantly change the motion blur, but it would feel smoother. I've had the 144 Hz version and set it between 144 Hz and 120 Hz and the motion blur was the same of course, but the 144 Hz did feel smoother.
This is totally true especially due to the existence of microstutters. Frame skips are smaller at 144Hz (1/144sec) than at 120Hz (1/120sec)

On the other hand, if you have perfect motion (no frame skips, no microstutters) -- you won't notice the smoothness difference. The strobing also gives you the luxury of a lower refresh rate without bringing back motion blur. Which makes it easier to completely eliminate microstutters in certain videogames that are able to successfully run fully capped-out at the refresh rate at all times. 85fps@85Hz is easier to maintain. But that does introduce flicker (if you're sensitive to flicker), and it does increase input lag -- not good for online/competitive gaming. I agree, the strobing rate should be adjustable all the way from 60 Hz through 144 Hz.

Hopefully ASUS with their upcoming VG248QE, will give people the choice of what refresh rate to run at, like people did in the CRT days.
 

Vega

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2004
Messages
6,369
Ya, I run all of my games on great hardware to keep the FPS 130+ and I never worry about micro-stuttering. FPS and Hz that fast also makes screen tearing hardly any issue as it refreshes too fast to really notice it.

I think NVIDIA may have limited their 3D vision to 120 Hz as that is all the glasses are capable of doing. They physically may not be able to do 144 Hz. But can we force it somehow in the drivers? That would be a very tempting challenge.

Now do we know how much the Asus 144 Hz monitors are strobing in Lightboost mode? Is it 4x pulses per refresh or 480 Hz strobe? Is that sufficient? Obviously your projects 960 Hz or even 1920Hz strobes would be better, but I wonder if 480 Hz strobe is still a huge improvement.
 

hanabie

n00b
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
39
I still could not believe I missed this monitor for $250 shipped! It was Amazon's lightning deals! :(
F!!
 

Vega

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2004
Messages
6,369
What? Amazon has this for $250 shipped? Surely you jest. You positive it was the 144 Hz version? (They have similar model names with lower monitors). The Asus VG278H is currently $577 and the VG278HE $485. I could not see either selling for anywhere near $250.
 

hanabie

n00b
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
39
Yeah.. I was 5 mins late before I found out.
Then, one said "wow! Amazon warehouse deal has it for 173 shipped!"

F! You know! When I checked the deal, the price was not updated yet! I saw amazon warehouse was selling for 450 something. Then I just closed the window. Someone said they just updated the "like new" price. I opened the window, and sux! sold out again...
 

Vega

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2004
Messages
6,369
I noticed Benq also has a Lightboost monitor, the XL2420TX. I wonder how that would compare to the Asus line.
 

hanabie

n00b
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
39
Some people just hoarded 3 or more to resell =/
easy profit.. That's SD man.. I've been on SD for quite awhile. It really saves me big bux, and I also made pretty good money from reselling stuff =/
Oh well... you just have to hang around for deals like this.. lol

Guys! If you want the 144hz version, just keep looking at amazon warehouse deal! It was 385 something last few weeks.
 

Vega

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2004
Messages
6,369
Been reading up more on Lightboost. Is it only a 120 Hz back-light strobe? Can't find any firm answers.
 

Godmachine

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 7, 2003
Messages
10,472
Amazon has the ASUS VG Series VG278HE (E being the 144hz version) for $484.99 without 3D glasses right now. For those that want to know.
 

Vega

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2004
Messages
6,369
I might buy the Benq to test it out as it has the 3D (2) glasses with it and it has higher brightness versus the Asus models and it is 24" which I think is a bit more suiting to 1080P's lower resolution versus the 27".
 

BurntToast

2[H]4U
Joined
Jun 14, 2003
Messages
3,672
I do not have the drop down box for "Select when the display is in 3D mode".

I just reinstalled the latest drivers, the only thing I didn't select was the HD Audio drivers.

 

Vega

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2004
Messages
6,369
The setting isn't under where it says "Test stereoscopic 3D"? Wonder why the original posters screen looks different. Maybe try the drivers he is using: 306.97. We really need to confirm this as I usually don't rely on just one person to confirm this stuff.

He is making claims of motion clarity as good as or better than a CRT with a simple 120 Hz back light strobe. I simply cannot believe it without seeing it as that is one monster claim.
 

BurntToast

2[H]4U
Joined
Jun 14, 2003
Messages
3,672
I thought maybe it was because I had a multi monitor setup. But I disabled my 2nd monitor via the Nvidia Control Panel but that didn't help.

BTW how did the OP get the performance tab? Did you use ntune? AFAIK ntune is no longer supported.
 

Vega

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2004
Messages
6,369
I think these "lightboost" circuits only work at 120 Hz though, so you would be stuck at 120 Hz instead of 144 Hz. The backlight strobing doesn't appear to be able to dynamically change to another refresh rate other than 120.

But then again 120 Hz with strobing is much better than 144 Hz without.
 

Godmachine

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 7, 2003
Messages
10,472
So then someone here needs to test this function and figure out what drivers provide the drop down menu to enable full time 3D.

I would recommend holding back on any purchases until this can be widely and credibly confirmed.
 

Mark Rejhon

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
1,395
He is making claims of motion clarity as good as or better than a CRT with a simple 120 Hz back light strobe. I simply cannot believe it without seeing it as that is one monster claim.
Silly skeptic -- It's scientifically proven.
In addition; he's telling the truth -- I've confirmed it and seen it myself too.
See below:

FAQ about it: Scanning/Strobed Backlight FAQ
Scientific papers: Science & References

Some high-end home theater HDTV's ($2000 and up) use strobed/scanning backlights -- See Existing Technology.
But they don't do it in a videogame compatible manner (input lag problems).
I'm glad zero-motion-blur technology is finally here in computer monitors, and I'm glad it doesn't add noticeable input lag.
 

Vega

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2004
Messages
6,369
I am not doubting the strobe'ing does work. But most displays do it at like 960 Hz. Doesn't Lightboost only do it at like 120 Hz? Seems like it would be far inferior only flashing the LED once per frame instead of 8x+ per frame.
 

Mark Rejhon

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
1,395
I am not doubting the strobe'ing does work. But most displays do it at like 960 Hz. Doesn't Lightboost only do it at like 120 Hz? Seems like it would be far inferior only flashing the LED once per frame instead of 8x+ per frame.
That's correct, it should only flash once per frame.
However, the Hz is a motion equivalence factor to a theoretical non-strobing display of a higher Hz.

Motion Blur Equivalence:
Impulse-driven display (CRT or strobe backlight)
...120 strobes per second at 120 Hz with 1/480sec flashes (~2ms)
Equals Sample-and-hold display (LCD with continuous backlight)
...480 fps at 480 Hz

Impulse-driven display (CRT or strobe backlight)
...85 strobes per second at 85 Hz with 1/960sec flashes (~1ms)
Equals Sample-and-hold display (LCD with continuous backlight)
...960 fps at 960 Hz

Impulse-driven display (CRT or strobe backlight)
... 96 strobes per second 96 Hz with 1/650sec flashes (~1.5ms)
Equals Sample-and-hold display (LCD with continuous backlight)
...650 fps at 650 Hz

With an approximately 1 millisecond phosphor decay for some CRT's, the motion on a CRT looks very sharp even at 60fps@60Hz, has motion that looks sharp, that they have a motion equivalence to a theoretical LCD of 960fps@960Hz. (I'm excluding other effects such as microstutter and flicker). Microstutter and flicker is less at higher refresh rates.
But we former CRT gamers know CRT@60fps is amazingly sharp. (Few of us scientifically understand the stroboscopic relationship)

I have scientific references that already explains the above equivalence --
click for links to scientific papers
 
Last edited:

jackstar7

Gawd
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
568
So what is preventing some up-and-comer (in the monitor game) from programming their LED to match the Hz of the monitor... and why did it take so long to determine this? Or making it a programmable function via driver?



I would really like to be able to make my 1440p IPS do this is my point...
 

Mark Rejhon

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
1,395
So what is preventing some up-and-comer (in the monitor game) from programming their LED to match the Hz of the monitor... and why did it take so long to determine this? Or making it a programmable function via driver?

I would really like to be able to make my 1440p IPS do this is my point...
LED and backlight technology. It takes about the equivalent of 150 watts per square feet of light, and it was expensive/difficult for LED's to do that until recently.
See Zero Motion Blur LCD: How Did It Only Recently Become Possible!?
(For 3 months, I've actually been working on a homebrew hack, but I'm glad that a manufacturer beat me to it)

You can't just simply use existing LED's in a monitor -- they aren't powerful enough. If you strobe them for short periods, the picture becomes dim.
You need ultrabright LED's, and LED's that are tolerant to big surges of current during strobes, like those in VG278H, etc.
Or buying your own LED's ($$$), etc.
 

jackstar7

Gawd
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
568
LED and backlight technology. It takes about the equivalent of 150 watts per square feet of light, and it was expensive/difficult for LED's to do that until recently.
See Zero Motion Blur LCD: How Did It Only Recently Become Possible!?
(For 3 months, I've actually been working on a homebrew hack, but I'm glad that a manufacturer beat me to it)

You can't just simply use existing LED's in a monitor -- they aren't powerful enough. If you strobe them for short periods, the picture becomes dim.
You need ultrabright LED's, and LED's that are tolerant to big surges of current during strobes, like those in VG278H, etc.
Or buying your own LED's ($$$), etc.
Ah ha. So there would be a premium on this. Good to know and thanks for the link. This is certainly fascinating.

Now we just need the major manufacturers to reverse engineer the Catleap 2B PCB and start making a perfect monitor...
 

Mark Rejhon

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
1,395
Now we just need the major manufacturers to reverse engineer the Catleap 2B PCB and start making a perfect monitor...
It would be ultimate, if it can refresh fast enough.
The problem is the current 24-30" sized IPS panels on the market, have too much pixel persistence leakage between frames.
You need really good response time acceleration circuitry to erase virtually all traces of pixel persistence before the next refresh, in order to have "perfect" LCD frames to strobe a light through.
(Not so coincidentially, shutter glasses technology requires that too. So non-3D-capable panels are not good candidates to achieve zero motion blur LCD)
 
Last edited:

Mark Rejhon

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
1,395
Yes, try this downloadable registry tweak to see if you can enable LightBoost without owning 3D glasses.

If you don't want to install the massive .reg file tweak, then the relevant part, methinks, is the following:
(untested)

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\NVIDIA Corporation\Global\Stereo3D]
@=""
"EnableWindowedMode"=dword:00000005
"StereoVisionConfirmed"=dword:00000001
"StereoTypeSet"=dword:00000001
"EnablePersistentStereoDesktop"=dword:00000001
"StereoRefreshDefaultOn"=dword:00000000
 

Godmachine

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 7, 2003
Messages
10,472
So then this is confirmed as working as it claims to? Is there anyway to see the difference with an uploaded video of it to youtube showing it off and on?

I really don't wish to experiment with my holiday funds unless this is actually a real effect.
 

BurntToast

2[H]4U
Joined
Jun 14, 2003
Messages
3,672
Is there anyway to see the difference with an uploaded video of it to youtube showing it off and on?
NO.

BTW even without this hack the feeling of this monitor is great. Closest thing to a CRT without getting a CRT. Night and day difference stock.
 

Vega

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2004
Messages
6,369
Just some random thoughts as I read everyone's posts:

If a simple flash of the back-light on and off once per frame like on the Lightboost monitors still makes a huge difference, how much of a difference does a real high quality expensive 960+ Hz scanning back-light make over a simple 120 Hz? Does pulsating the same pixel eight times instead of once make a huge difference?

If under Lightboost the goal is only to illuminate the pixel once in its fully set state and not during transition, how do the 960 Hz scanning/strobbing sets do it? As far as I am aware, those 960 Hz scanning TV's are IPS. This means relatively slow pixels. Are those sets illuminating pixels in a transition state? They would have to be. If you waited for the pixels to be in their set state and then pulse the back-light 8x's, there would be gap's between the 8x pulses with an off period. Is the pulse gap so quick that this does not matter? Or are the pulses so quick that pulsing during pixel transition doesn't hurt it and cause more motion blur?

If simply strobing the back light once per frame creates CRT clarity motion as claimed, why would you need a scanning back-light at 960 Hz? Why didn't they just do the same thing to those high end TV's as Lightboost?

My biggest gripe: all Lightboost monitors are measly 1080P and have TN panels with associated poor images quality and horrid full matte anti-glare. So my real interest is modifying my 130 Hz 1440P IPS Catleap for a scanning back-light. Mark, are you going to press on with your testing or are you going to stop with this 2D Lightboost news?

Just doing some quick thinking. My IPS is running at 130 Hz, which means 7.7ms between each signal for the pixel to change. I've read this particular panel has between 5-7ms pixel response. Would that small of a gap in the pixels "Set" state before it changes just be too small of a window to even pulse the (custom needed) back-light at 130 Hz in order to eliminate the motion blur?

Could running at 130 Hz even be causing me more motion blur than running the screen at 120 Hz or lower even though it feels smoother? With the pixels almost always in a constant transition state, would it be better to let the pixels be "set" at a lower refresh rate than forcing them to change so quickly? I guess it boils down to what creates more motion blur to human perception: your eyes moving across the display surface viewing set or static sample and hold pixels, or pixels in transition?

You mentioned 60 Hz on a CRT as smooth motion. I would agree, but of course the flicker was way too noticeable to be usable. I am interested in this 4K Sharp IGZO 31.5" display which is 60 Hz. If I did a custom ultra-bright back-light on it that strobed every 60Hz, are you saying the motion blur reduction would be huge? Would it affect the perceived smoothness? Or are you back into the same dilemma as the CRT, the 60Hz strobe will be un-viewable as the flicker would be too noticeable?

If that is the case, if you wanted to strobe a 60 Hz screen, you would have to strobe it at 120+ Hz? Then again, I don't even know if I would have the balls to open up a $5,500 monitor LOL.

That is why I want to get strobe going on my 130 Hz 1440P IPS. Even with crystal clear motion I do not think I can go back to a 1080P TN panel and all of it's massive pitfalls.
 

Mark Rejhon

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
1,395
If a simple flash of the back-light on and off once per frame like on the Lightboost monitors still makes a huge difference, how much of a difference does a real high quality expensive 960+ Hz scanning back-light make over a simple 120 Hz? Does pulsating the same pixel eight times instead of once make a huge difference?
No -- A "960Hz" scanning backlight DOES NOT pulsate the same pixel 8 times. A "960Hz" (simulated Hz, not actual Hz) ideally strobes once per refresh (e.g. 1/240sec at 240Hz interpolated).

"960" equivalence (not real Hz) is simulated via 1/960sec strobe, even if it's only 60 times per second. A CRT tube of 1ms phosphor decay (1/1000sec strobe) has approximately a motion equivalence of approximately 1000 -- an equivalence to a theoretical native 1000fps@1000Hz LCD, if it existed (1000 separate frames, single refresh)
It's a motion EQUIVALENCE -- not actual Hz.

Real life scenario, however:
i.e. just X number of 1/120sec strobes at X refresh rate (X fps = X Hz), will have a motion equivalence to 120Hz (non-strobing).
Example: 1/120th second strobed backlight, strobing 60 times a second, once per refresh, at 60Hz, will have a motion equivalence of 120.
This motion-fluidity equivalence has been scientifically tested and confirmed.

Thusly:
1/120th second strobes (one strobe per refresh at any refresh rate, fps=Hz situation), motion fluidity looks like 120fps@120Hz
1/240th second strobes (one strobe per refresh at any refresh rate, fps=Hz situation), motion fluidity looks like 240fps@240Hz
1/500th second strobes (one strobe per refresh at any refresh rate, fps=Hz situation), motion fluidity looks like 500fps@500Hz

There are also real life examples:
Shorter strobes = Sharper motion.
Short persistence phoshpor CRT = shorter strobes = Sharper motion
Long persistence phosphor CRT = longer strobes = Blurrier motion (more phosphor ghosting)]
LCD display = no strobes = Blurriest motion

It's true there has been somewhat of a minor controversy about the "Hz" and "equivalence", but the science is proven.
The problem is that the claimed equivalence is sometimes exaggerated -- much like exaggerated contrast ratios versus actual measured contrast ratios.
 
Last edited:

BurntToast

2[H]4U
Joined
Jun 14, 2003
Messages
3,672
I just added this to my registry and rebooted.

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\NVIDIA Corporation\Global\Stereo3D]
"EnablePersistentStereoDesktop"=dword:00000001
When I logged into windows my login screen was in 3d. The desktop looked normal. But the brightness was WAY down. I was not able to adjust it via the monitor settings. The buttons that used to change the color profile on my monitor now adjusted light boost.

I jumped into a game and the server browser was in 3D but the main splash screen was not. The game was in 3d.

For this entire session the 3D logo on top of my monitor has been glowing.

I'm going to remove this entry from my registry and reboot.
 

Mark Rejhon

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
1,395
So then this is confirmed as working as it claims to? Is there anyway to see the difference with an uploaded video of it to youtube showing it off and on?
It can't be easily captured in a video, because you need a tracking camera (moving camera that tracks motion):
Motion Blur Measurement Kit
(Costs over $10,000).
Computer monitor manufacturers and display manufacturers use such tracking cameras to optimize their displays.

Stationary cameras (still cameras or video cameras that aren't moving to track a moving object).

1. Stationary camera

...Advantage: Measuring pixel persistence
...Disadvantage: Cannot properly measure eye-tracking-based motion blur

2. Moving camera

...Advantage: WYSIWYG (what the eye saw). Measuring eye-tracking based motion blur, including trailing effects.
...Disadvantage: Very difficult, expensive setups

The second image is a 1/60sec shutter, taken on a Samsung 226BW with a 180Hz PWM CCFL backlight. The camera tracked the moving object (which was moving at 960 pixels per second). It even successfully captured the triple-image effect of the 180Hz PWM

For users, the easiest way for everyday users to benchmark: You need to benchmark it using software, such as PixPerAn, or other motion benchmarking software.
 

Mark Rejhon

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
1,395
When I logged into windows my login screen was in 3d. The desktop looked normal. But the brightness was WAY down.
Strange effects. We've got to try something else, then.
Did you do some tests like window movement tests at the desktop?
E.g. dragging a window around? Did you try PixPerAn, to see how the motion looked?
Did you try the full version of the registry tweak from the other forum, and see if that worked better?
BurntToast said:
So my real interest is modifying my 130 Hz 1440P IPS Catleap for a scanning back-light.
It would be ultimate, if the makers of CatLeap adds response-time-acceleration and other things that also makes it compatible with 3D. The problem is this high speed video of an LCD refresh -- the refresh pattern is very similar to this, making it virtually impossible to achieve zero motion blur on this type of LCD refresh pattern. Perhaps large motion blur reduction (e.g. 50%+) but not nearly as good at CRT, since there'll still be some pixel persistence leftovers. According to this high-speed video, the pattern of the LCD refresh on most common LCD monitors does not leave enough room for a very clear strobe, especially at 120Hz refresh rate. (5ms out of 8ms eliminates a lot of the safety room, plus there's too much pixel persistence leakage after 5ms, due to lack of response time acceleration). This will be a limiting factor in motion blur. I've recently discovered that you need a good 3D-capable (shutter glasses) LCD panel, in order to have any chance of matching or being better than CRT.
When the first IPS 3D-compatible (shutter glasses) panel hits the market, it should be possible to make it do zero motion blur via a strobed backlight.

BTW -- I'd like to see other monitors (not just LightBoost) that has strobed backlights, but clearly, this is the easiest solution at the moment.
I'm doing more tests on VG278H, keep tuned.
 
Last edited:
Top