Apple to Announce its own Mac Processor

erek

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Wonder if they can really make a competitive processor

"A Bloomberg report on the new processors states that the chips will be based on the "same technology" as the company's A-series SoCs for iOS devices, meaning that Apple will leverage the Arm machine architecture, and has probably developed a high performance CPU core that can match Intel's x64 cores in IPC and efficiency. Macs based on the new processors, will however run MacOS and not iOS, which means much of clean-break transition woes between PPC and x86 Macs are bound to return, but probably better managed by software vendors. It also remains to be seen how Apple handles graphics. The company could scale up the Metal-optimized iGPU found in its A-series SoCs on its new Mac processor, while also giving them the platform I/O capability to support discrete graphics from companies such as AMD."

https://www.techpowerup.com/268294/apple-to-announce-its-own-mac-processor-at-wwdc-late-june
 

Zarathustra[H]

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It will be interesting to see how this turns out.

I normally consider ARM for the desktop to be somewhat of a Joke, but Apple have built up a quite capable chip design team. Their A series chips for phones have been running circles around everyone else.

It will suck to have to completely rewrite all of the software AGAIN

- 1994 Classic MacOS & Motorola 68k --> Classic MacOS & PowerPC
- 2001 Classic MacOS & PowerPC --> OSX & PowerPC
- 2006 OSX & PowerPC --> OSX & x86
- 2020 OSX & x86 --> OSX & ARM

In the past they have used emulators to help lessen the impact of the transition, but I can't imagine emulating x86 using an ARM chip will be a particularly performant solution...

I don't buy Apple products, and I have no interest in using ARM CPU's, but I sure am curious to see how performance will compare to x86 models.
 

Format _C:

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I also don't buy Apple products but I do somewhat like OSX I have been Hackintoshing for quite a few years now. I wonder if they do transition to their own in house processors what will become of the Hackintosh community? I am sure they will find another way to run the OS on uncertified hardware.
 

Aurelius

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I also don't buy Apple products but I do somewhat like OSX I have been Hackintoshing for quite a few years now. I wonder if they do transition to their own in house processors what will become of the Hackintosh community? I am sure they will find another way to run the OS on uncertified hardware.
There's no guarantees Apple will move wholesale to ARM, but if it does... say goodbye to Hackintoshes unless ARM takes off on Windows PCs.
 

EniGmA1987

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There's no guarantees Apple will move wholesale to ARM, but if it does... say goodbye to Hackintoshes unless ARM takes off on Windows PCs.
Even then, Apple will probably hard code some key in their CPUs that require only their CPU to boot MacOS. Someone will eventually crack the key but it would mean until then you would have to get a salvage CPU out of someone's old tower.
 
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kirbyrj

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I also don't buy Apple products but I do somewhat like OSX I have been Hackintoshing for quite a few years now. I wonder if they do transition to their own in house processors what will become of the Hackintosh community? I am sure they will find another way to run the OS on uncertified hardware.
I think the Hackintosh community will last as long as Apple supports x86. After that, Apple can absolutely double down on the walled garden approach because there won't be a non-Apple version of their ARM chip out there.
 

kirbyrj

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There's no guarantees Apple will move wholesale to ARM, but if it does... say goodbye to Hackintoshes unless ARM takes off on Windows PCs.
I almost feel like it wouldn't be a bad option for the Macbook Air lineup to compete as a higher end version of a Chromebook with Apple stuff. Then leave the Macbook Pro, Mac Pro, etc. alone with x86 for "serious" work.
 

Lakados

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It will be interesting to see how this turns out.

I normally consider ARM for the desktop to be somewhat of a Joke, but Apple have built up a quite capable chip design team. Their A series chips for phones have been running circles around everyone else.

It will suck to have to completely rewrite all of the software AGAIN

- 1994 Classic MacOS & Motorola 68k --> Classic MacOS & PowerPC
- 2001 Classic MacOS & PowerPC --> OSX & PowerPC
- 2006 OSX & PowerPC --> OSX & x86
- 2020 OSX & x86 --> OSX & ARM

In the past they have used emulators to help lessen the impact of the transition, but I can't imagine emulating x86 using an ARM chip will be a particularly performant solution...

I don't buy Apple products, and I have no interest in using ARM CPU's, but I sure am curious to see how performance will compare to x86 models.
Won’t be an issue the code is already 90% portable between OSX and iOS, by changing a few compiler options. I suspect that all the major players will have their software ready to go day 1, then there will be a small hold out of DJ software that tells its customers not to update that their stuff isn’t compatible and that this change came out of nowhere so they will need time to make it work.
 

bman212121

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There's no guarantees Apple will move wholesale to ARM, but if it does... say goodbye to Hackintoshes unless ARM takes off on Windows PCs.
On the contrary, I'm not sure why that really matters. If the community really does want MacOS on other devices and can figure out how, it seems like the obvious answer would be Raspberry Pis. With the 4+ now offering 8GB of ram, it might be up to the task.
 

pendragon1

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is this another ARM thread, like we've been hearing for years now?
oh unknownsouljer knows what im saying
 

bman212121

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I almost feel like it wouldn't be a bad option for the Macbook Air lineup to compete as a higher end version of a Chromebook with Apple stuff. Then leave the Macbook Pro, Mac Pro, etc. alone with x86 for "serious" work.
The reason this is making the rounds again in per the original Bloomberg article, ALL macs will make the transition.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...to-announce-move-to-its-own-mac-chips-at-wwdc

Here's Ars take on that.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/202...nce-arm-transition-for-all-macs-at-wwdc-2020/
 

Aireoth

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Color me very skeptical that ARM processors are able to take over full Desktop functionality (let alone HEDT or media creation tools).
 

bman212121

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Color me very skeptical that ARM processors are able to take over full Desktop functionality (let alone HEDT or media creation tools).
I actually think those workloads are the easier thing to conquer. If HEDT is just a mini HPC, then 90% of the workload is run on GPUs. Media creation is likely going to be the same. With Apple having metal I think the big thing for them is pushing for more workloads to be run on GPUs rather than CPUs, which I don't think is hard to see their IP besting integrated graphics offered by Intel. If you use discrete graphics then nothing is really changing on that front, so as long as you have enough power, or your application can thread well enough, it's probably not an issue. Perf / watt is in Apple's favor, so provided your workload scales you could just throw more cores at the problem.
 

pendragon1

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kju1

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Hmm I actually thought Apple moving to a standardized chip (x86 as shitty as it is...) was a good move. It will be interesting to see how this shakes out. I am not yet convinced its a good idea for them to move onto ARM or something else.
 

jeremyshaw

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" according to people familiar with the plans. " let wait and see what apple actually announces...
Even if they get it right, Nostradamus has been claiming arm on macs since.... 2010? 2011? Just because the 10th "this will be the year of arm on mac" claim finally landed on a year when apple actually did it, doesn't make the claim any more useful.

Which goes back to:
[...]let wait and see what apple actually announces...
Absolutely this.
 

Halon

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The chips look good, and ready for non-huge core counts in line with a lot of every day use cases. What I can't get excited about is that it's coming from an infamously locked down firm, and that users might pine for the good old days of the walled garden once this switch is complete. But I admit Apple hasn't made anything of interest for me in years except phones...
 

Aurelius

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People buy Apple products for the same reason women buy large ear-rings. It's not about performance or functionality.

Many guys who buy apple have large ear-rings also.
The year 2002 called -- it'd like its outdated and childish (not to mention vaguely homophobic) Apple stereotypes back.

Many of us Mac users buy them to get shit done, and we prefer them over Windows for our workflows. We sometimes need them for our workflows. You don't have to tear down a platform you don't use just to feel secure about the one you like.
 

kirbyrj

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The year 2002 called -- it'd like its outdated and childish (not to mention vaguely homophobic) Apple stereotypes back.

Many of us Mac users buy them to get shit done, and we prefer them over Windows for our workflows. We sometimes need them for our workflows. You don't have to tear down a platform you don't use just to feel secure about the one you like.
MW-HK359_macvsp_ZH_20190526183411.jpg


Isn't that like the pot calling the kettle black?

Sorry, that's the first thing I thought of when you said childish apple stereotypes...
 

GotNoRice

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The year 2002 called -- it'd like its outdated and childish (not to mention vaguely homophobic) Apple stereotypes back.

Many of us Mac users buy them to get shit done, and we prefer them over Windows for our workflows. We sometimes need them for our workflows. You don't have to tear down a platform you don't use just to feel secure about the one you like.
People who buy Apple tend to also be easily triggered.
 

Factum

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It will be interesting to see how this turns out.

I normally consider ARM for the desktop to be somewhat of a Joke, but Apple have built up a quite capable chip design team. Their A series chips for phones have been running circles around everyone else.

It will suck to have to completely rewrite all of the software AGAIN

- 1994 Classic MacOS & Motorola 68k --> Classic MacOS & PowerPC
- 2001 Classic MacOS & PowerPC --> OSX & PowerPC
- 2006 OSX & PowerPC --> OSX & x86
- 2020 OSX & x86 --> OSX & ARM

In the past they have used emulators to help lessen the impact of the transition, but I can't imagine emulating x86 using an ARM chip will be a particularly performant solution...

I don't buy Apple products, and I have no interest in using ARM CPU's, but I sure am curious to see how performance will compare to x86 models.
I fear a repeat of the infamous Apple G5 "benchmarks" to be honest...
 

Red Falcon

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I fear a repeat of the infamous Apple G5 "benchmarks" to be honest...
Benchmarks from Apple need to be taken with a grain of salt, but independent benchmarks, both synthetic and real-world, will be very telling in the coming year.
 

pendragon1

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The year 2002 called -- it'd like its outdated and childish (not to mention vaguely homophobic) Apple stereotypes back.
see i thought he was talking about hipster with their huge gauged ear plug things. so assuming that its homophobic kinda makes you homophobic does it not?! apple still carries with it the "stigma" that its for the "cool kids" and windows is for "business people"
 

Aurelius

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see i thought he was talking about hipster with their huge gauged ear plug things. so assuming that its homophobic kinda makes you homophobic does it not?! apple still carries with it the "stigma" that its for the "cool kids" and windows is for "business people"
Oh, I don't doubt that the stigma still exists, but actively playing on stereotypes? Nah. It's 2020, we're supposed to have matured and accepted that the world is complex. And when I say homophobia, it's that he clearly believes Mac use among men is "effeminate," and that people with feminine traits (which can include gay men) are weak. So maybe it'd be fairer to say it's a dash of homophobia with a whole heaping of sexism.
 

pendragon1

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Oh, I don't doubt that the stigma still exists, but actively playing on stereotypes? Nah. It's 2020, we're supposed to have matured and accepted that the world is complex. And when I say homophobia, it's that he clearly believes Mac use among men is "effeminate," and that people with feminine traits (which can include gay men) are weak. So maybe it'd be fairer to say it's a dash of homophobia with a whole heaping of sexism.
youre hearing dog whistles eh?
yes the "stigma" still exits, macs are cool and the cool kids have em. they are a status symbol for most people. i dont care about that "it's current year" bullshit, its sjw nonsense.
 

Aurelius

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youre hearing dog whistles eh?
yes the "stigma" still exits, macs are cool and the cool kids have em. they are a status symbol for most people. i dont care about that "it's current year" bullshit, its sjw nonsense.
It's not a dogwhistle when it's glaringly obvious. He thinks men with womanlike traits are bad, and it doesn't get any clearer than that. And just because you "don't care" about the world moving on doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Grown-ups move past stereotypes; children cling to them.

Can we please move on to talking about ARM-based Macs? I'm worried about what that means for games and legacy apps, but I'm curious to see if Apple can claim battery and performance improvements.
 

Red Falcon

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LOL, I think we need to start a "peaceful protest" about Apple moving to ARM CPUs. :D

Apple Customer: "My Mac's x86-64 CPU has been replaced with an ARM64 CPU!"
Apple Customer Support: "We'll set you up with a counselor to help you cope with the loss and explain how this is for the greater good." ;)


I do have to say it will be interesting to see the overall performance difference to x86-64 overall, and I'm especially looking forward to real-world benchmarks with it.
Hopefully the rest of the industry will follow forward, especially NVIDIA and AMD with ARM64.
 

defaultluser

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Will this be the end of Boot Camp?

Probably not: there's this little thing called Arm for Windows!

And, being locked to Edge Browser is no-longer the death sentence it once was!

https://www.engadget.com/2020-02-07-edge-chrome-80-arm64.html

You've got Google Chrome compatibility, along with an optimized ARM64 build!

If anything, Apple Arm-powered systems could be the giant nudge Windows on ARM is still looking for!

This feature would be the last little piece missing (will probably be available by next year)!
 
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Probably not: there's this little thing called Arm for Windows!

And, being locked to Edge Browser is no-longer the death sentence it once was!

https://www.engadget.com/2020-02-07-edge-chrome-80-arm64.html

You've got Google Chrome compatibility, along with an optimized ARM64 build!

If anything, Apple Arm-powered systems could be the giant nudge Windows on ARM is still looking for!

This feature would be the last little piece missing (will probably be available by next year)!
Not if Apple designs their own ARM CPU that no one else can use...
 
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