Apple’s Lame Fix For Antenna Issues

[Bahamut]

There's still an obvious design flaw that there's no way to fix, but this isn't as big of a deal as people think.

Yeah, it is, it a major flaw called the antennas. There's a reason that no other cellular phone maker (or any maker of microwave radio transceiver equipment) has ever put the antennas in reach or within possible range of being touched by the hands, fingers, anything organic actually.

It's simply not done, ever, but Apple once again thinks they can rewrite the laws of physics and microwave energy transmission and a bunch of other things...

And they're wrong.

 

[Azhar]

I have an idea Apple fanboy, why don't you leave your BS out of this topic and stay ON TOPIC?

Because not only is this bullshit, but it's also completely off topic.

Wow, seriously?

 

[gtg465x]

Umm, if you haven't heard jailbreaking your iPhone voids warranty. Plus iPhone 4 is missing the app because Apple removed it(I guess there is no app for it). Anand had to load the OS form a jailbroken iphone 3GS to get it to work.

Yes, jailbreak the iPhone voids the warranty. As does root an Android device. If you know what you're doing though, you can make it impossible to tell that you've ever jailbroken or rooted. And the app I was referring to wasn't removed by Apple. They can't remove it because it's not even in the App Store. It's in the jailbroken store so to speak (Cydia).

 

[gtg465x]

I have an idea Apple fanboy, why don't you leave your BS out of this topic and stay ON TOPIC?

Because not only is this bullshit, but it's also completely off topic.

First of all, I'm not an Apple fanboy. I own a PC and an Android phone.

Second of all... what?

 

[kllrnohj]

As you can see from his testing, the bars are clearly displayed in an odd manor. Whether it was by design or not, the bars clearly aren't displayed right.

Odd to you, maybe, but really not odd. The phone drops from 5 bars to 4 bars at about the point when the signal drops low enough to potentially be noticed. The bars are being more accurate at the low signal end because that is what actually matters. Once you have 5 bars, it doesn't matter how much closer you get to the tower, your speeds and reliability isn't going to improve - you're at the best you're going to get.

If Apple increases the range of the rest of the bars, all they will be doing is trying to sweep the real problem under the rug by reducing the amount of bar drop. The amount of signal drop will be unchanged, the impact that has will be unchanged, but suddenly instead of being at 4 bars and dropping to 0, you'll be at 1 or 2 bars and dropping to 0. However, you will no longer be able to differentiate between a good signal and bad signal (the current 4 and 1 bars, respectively), and will instead appear to always have a bad signal (1 or 2 new bars).

Basically after this change bars will go from slightly helpful to completely useless.

By the way, the iPhone isn't the only phone to drop some signal when holding it tight. All phones do this, but the iPhone 4 just happens to do it a little more than most phones. This compounded with the bars not being displayed linearly is what made it so easy to notice.

The problem is that it isn't just a "little more" - its a *LOT* more.

For comparison, Anand found that the iPhone 4 losed 24.6 dB of signal when gripped very tightly in that particular spot, while a Nexus One loses 17.7 dB when gripped in the same manor. So yes, the iPhone 4 is worse in this regard, but it's not nearly as big of a deal as everyone thinks.

Actually, in that case the iPhone 4 is a little over 4 times worse than the Nexus One. Remember, dB isn't linear, it's logarithmic. Every 3 dB is twice as much. 20dB is twice as much as 17dB.

But more importantly is the numbers Anandtech got when held naturally, which is 10.7 dB loss for the Nexus One, and a huge 19.8 dB for the iPhone 4. THAT is the problem. The huge drop when held naturally.

 

[phide]

And if it was Corning's Gorilla Glass, how come Apple doesn't say its Gorilla Glass?

Why does JetAudio not list Gorilla Glass in the Cowon S9's tech specs? Why does Motorola not list Gorilla Glass in their tech specs for the DROID?

 

[mrorange43]

Odd to you, maybe, but really not odd. The phone drops from 5 bars to 4 bars at about the point when the signal drops low enough to potentially be noticed. The bars are being more accurate at the low signal end because that is what actually matters. Once you have 5 bars, it doesn't matter how much closer you get to the tower, your speeds and reliability isn't going to improve - you're at the best you're going to get.

If Apple increases the range of the rest of the bars, all they will be doing is trying to sweep the real problem under the rug by reducing the amount of bar drop. The amount of signal drop will be unchanged, the impact that has will be unchanged, but suddenly instead of being at 4 bars and dropping to 0, you'll be at 1 or 2 bars and dropping to 0. However, you will no longer be able to differentiate between a good signal and bad signal (the current 4 and 1 bars, respectively), and will instead appear to always have a bad signal (1 or 2 new bars).

Basically after this change bars will go from slightly helpful to completely useless.



The problem is that it isn't just a "little more" - its a *LOT* more.



Actually, in that case the iPhone 4 is a little over 4 times worse than the Nexus One. Remember, dB isn't linear, it's logarithmic. Every 3 dB is twice as much. 20dB is twice as much as 17dB.

But more importantly is the numbers Anandtech got when held naturally, which is 10.7 dB loss for the Nexus One, and a huge 19.8 dB for the iPhone 4. THAT is the problem. The huge drop when held naturally.

This. By the way, is it fair to do these tests right under an ATT tower as Anand did? 99% of people do not have the privelege of having stellar reception because they don't live across the street from a tower.

 

[Cheetoz]

completely ignoring the iphone 4G.

Did there exist a problem with iphones (3G,2G) and displaying incorrect reception? And if so, is the antenna problem with the iphone 4G what made the matter worse, and finally motivated them to fix the issue? If so, will apple NOT fix the 4G hardware issue, or are they playing this off as fixing the 4G hardware issue?

 

[ShadowStriker]

Why does JetAudio not list Gorilla Glass in the Cowon S9's tech specs? Why does Motorola not list Gorilla Glass in their tech specs for the DROID?

Because JetAudio and Motorola both do not mention the type of glass they use, only the type of screen they use.

 

[Azhar]

This. By the way, is it fair to do these tests right under an ATT tower as Anand did? 99% of people do not have the privelege of having stellar reception because they don't live across the street from a tower.

Did you stop reading that article after the first sentence? He said he tested the phone near and far from the towers.

 

[gtg465x]

Odd to you, maybe, but really not odd. The phone drops from 5 bars to 4 bars at about the point when the signal drops low enough to potentially be noticed. The bars are being more accurate at the low signal end because that is what actually matters. Once you have 5 bars, it doesn't matter how much closer you get to the tower, your speeds and reliability isn't going to improve - you're at the best you're going to get.

If Apple increases the range of the rest of the bars, all they will be doing is trying to sweep the real problem under the rug by reducing the amount of bar drop. The amount of signal drop will be unchanged, the impact that has will be unchanged, but suddenly instead of being at 4 bars and dropping to 0, you'll be at 1 or 2 bars and dropping to 0. However, you will no longer be able to differentiate between a good signal and bad signal (the current 4 and 1 bars, respectively), and will instead appear to always have a bad signal (1 or 2 new bars).

Basically after this change bars will go from slightly helpful to completely useless.



The problem is that it isn't just a "little more" - its a *LOT* more.



Actually, in that case the iPhone 4 is a little over 4 times worse than the Nexus One. Remember, dB isn't linear, it's logarithmic. Every 3 dB is twice as much. 20dB is twice as much as 17dB.

But more importantly is the numbers Anandtech got when held naturally, which is 10.7 dB loss for the Nexus One, and a huge 19.8 dB for the iPhone 4. THAT is the problem. The huge drop when held naturally.

Good points. It would be interesting to see the levels that bars align to on some other phones. Do you know if AT&T has guideline for this?

 

[ShadowStriker]

Apple made the point to point out they had a specific type of glass.

 

[Bahamut]

Wanna see something magical?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znxQOPFg2mo

It's full of iPhone 3GS win and iPhone 4 FAIL... man I love watching this one, I really do.

Too bad Apple censored all this from the "official" WWDC video people actually watch. The iPhone 3GS in the same situation loaded with massive overloading interference doesn't miss a beat, while the iPhone 4 fails each and every time.

And they used 3 different models of each: 3 iPhone 3GS, 3 iPhone 4, and Steve Jobs would switch from one set to the other for comparisons - each time the iPhone 3GS wins and the iPhone 4 is simply FAIL.

 

[mrorange43]

Did you stop reading that article after the first sentence? He said he tested the phone near and far from the towers.

Fair enough. I misread that paragraph where he discusses this. But the fact of the matter is that the signal drops from -89 dBm to -113 dBm in these faraway areas, rendering the phone useless for 3g and calls. There's no way to sugarcoat that no matter how much you change the bars.

 

[Azhar]

Fair enough. I misread that paragraph where he discusses this. But the fact of the matter is that the signal drops from -89 dBm to -113 dBm in these faraway areas, rendering the phone useless for 3g and calls. There's no way to sugarcoat that no matter how much you change the bars.

Right. It's a conductive issue. Your skin pulls all of the antenna reception around the phone into the area you're holding it. If I'm understanding the article correctly, the best way to describe the issue is to compare it with a lightning ball like this one. If you touch the ball, the lightning becomes attracted to your skin and it ignores signals coming from other parts of the antenna band.

That would explain why scotch tape fixes this issue. But I wonder if there are more permanent coating you can apply to the band to prevent your skin from touching it. Something transparent, like acrylic coating or something.

 

[JUSTJOEL73]

Wanna see something magical?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znxQOPFg2mo

It's full of iPhone 3GS win and iPhone 4 FAIL... man I love watching this one, I really do.

Too bad Apple censored all this from the "official" WWDC video people actually watch. The iPhone 3GS in the same situation loaded with massive overloading interference doesn't miss a beat, while the iPhone 4 fails each and every time.

And they used 3 different models of each: 3 iPhone 3GS, 3 iPhone 4, and Steve Jobs would switch from one set to the other for comparisons - each time the iPhone 3GS wins and the iPhone 4 is simply FAIL.

And yet the Sheeple are lining up and paying to downgrade their phones from 3GS to 4.

 

[JUSTJOEL73]

Right. It's a conductive issue. Your skin pulls all of the antenna reception around the phone into the area you're holding it. If I'm understanding the article correctly, the best way to describe the issue is to compare it with a lightning ball like this one. If you touch the ball, the lightning becomes attracted to your skin and it ignores signals coming from other parts of the antenna band.

That would explain why scotch tape fixes this issue. But I wonder if there are more permanent coating you can apply to the band to prevent your skin from touching it. Something transparent, like acrylic coating or something.

Apple is currently applying a coating of proprietary BS but it doesn't seem to be working.

 

[kllrnohj]

Right. It's a conductive issue. Your skin pulls all of the antenna reception around the phone into the area you're holding it. If I'm understanding the article correctly, the best way to describe the issue is to compare it with a lightning ball like this one. If you touch the ball, the lightning becomes attracted to your skin and it ignores signals coming from other parts of the antenna band.

That would explain why scotch tape fixes this issue. But I wonder if there are more permanent coating you can apply to the band to prevent your skin from touching it. Something transparent, like acrylic coating or something.

From the Anandtech article:

When I first saw the iPhone 4's design spelled out watching the keynote online, I immediately assumed that Apple was going to apply an insulative coating atop the stainless steel. Perhaps even use diamond vapor deposition (like they did with the glass screen atop the iPhone 3GS) to insulate the stainless steel from users.

So it sounds like there are several common/known options Apple could have gone with, but decided not to use any of them.

 

[bacon]

Did you stop reading that article after the first sentence? He said he tested the phone near and far from the towers.

You can't get away from the towers in Raleigh they are everywhere1!1

 

[Azhar]

From the Anandtech article:



So it sounds like there are several common/known options Apple could have gone with, but decided not to use any of them.

Yup, that's where I got to thinking about the lightning ball and how clear coats might help alleviate the problem.

 

[TexUs]

I can't wait to see someone do THIS test with an iPhone 4.

I'll put $100 cash down right now that says it'll shatter like a piece of fine china dropped off a 10 story building when it hits the pavement, and it'll happen in the first few hits.

Any takers?

It's already shown it'll shatter from 1 foot high.
There's a downside to more glass. It might look pretty but it adds 0 functionality and actually detracts from functionality (come on, Apple... you know people drop phones).

Imagine this scenario: there's no antenna design flaw at all and the iPhone 4 is receiving perfectly unhindered signal strength. People would complain that no matter where they are, what they do, all they see is 3 bars, not 5. They'll want to know why?

You realize that Apple DESIGNED it to do that, right? They designed it to report higher than what it actually does. Now it has bit them in the ass.

Too bad Apple censored all this from the "official" WWDC video people actually watch. The iPhone 3GS in the same situation loaded with massive overloading interference doesn't miss a beat, while the iPhone 4 fails each and every time.

If that doesn't tell you it's a HARDWARE FLAW, I don't know what does.

 

[kllrnohj]

Good points. It would be interesting to see the levels that bars align to on some other phones. Do you know if AT&T has guideline for this?

I don't know, sorry. I think each manufacturer gets to make up whatever they want.

 

[Dzero]

Wow, I haven't laughed this hard in long time. Jobs is a freakin' comedian. I hope he's got more!!!

 

[ninjaturtle]

You beat me to it.

 

[greenfrogman]

full review of the issue and the phone it self
http://www.anandtech.com/print/3794 (just press cancel when it pops up with the print box, allows you to read it in one full view, H can you please implement an print option that merges all the pages)

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review it you really want to press next on every page

 

[Pieded]

HAHHAHAHH

 

[Azhar]

You realize that Apple DESIGNED it to do that, right? They designed it to report higher than what it actually does. Now it has bit them in the ass.

You realize that it might be overlooked because iOS4 was made for more than one generation of iPhones, right?

Or should everyone be as perfect as you?

 

[TexUs]

You realize that it might be overlooked because iOS4 was made for more than one generation of iPhones, right?

What do you think iOS4 was based on?

Did the fact Apple said they are now releasing this patch to all old devices (reversing their previous fix) ever cross your mind, either?

Dude... Apple isn't an innocent company. They purposefully cripple their shit to sell units.

 

[schizrade]

Good discussion, although I wish the flamers and Disciples of Jobs would get out of the thread.

20dB signal drop while holding naturally is a nasty flaw.

 

[Azhar]

What do you think iOS4 was based on?

Did the fact Apple said they are now releasing this patch to all old devices (reversing their previous fix) ever cross your mind, either?

Dude... Apple isn't an innocent company. They purposefully cripple their shit to sell units.

Jesus fucking Christ man, shut your Apple hating mouth for one minute and think. How many operating systems are built on older operating systems? How many flaws are resulted from this? How many operating systems get patched and updated from flaws overlooked by developers?

 

[phide]

Because JetAudio and Motorola both do not mention the type of glass they use, only the type of screen they use.

Uggh...

Too bad Apple censored all this from the "official" WWDC video people actually watch. The iPhone 3GS in the same situation loaded with massive overloading interference doesn't miss a beat, while the iPhone 4 fails each and every time.

Looks as if the phone was showing a strong 3G connection but that wasn't actually the case. On actual iPhones, the signal level meter drops and displays "No service". This phone was displaying full signal strength. Potentially the cellular capabilities of that particular demo unit were disabled or otherwise not working as intended. It's hard to say. I had no idea this portion was edited out though — none of the liveblogs mentioned anything about the iPhone not being able to make a cellular connection.

As for the WiFi connectivity issue, Anandtech claims WiFi sensitivity increases when you hold the phone, which wouldn't explain why the demo unit was failing at the keynote yet the 3GS was going strong:

But what about WiFi? Surely since the UMTS/GSM antenna interferes with it, the WiFi signal has changed as well. It has, though not how one would expect. Holding the phone with no case actually improves WiFi signal strength by a measurable 5 to 10 dB.

 

[az_max]

There is a really easy software fix. How about Apple get rid of the bar system and display actual signal strength. In fact every phone manufacturer should do it, this way we can have Apples to apples comparisons between phones.

My old Nextel phone had that option by punching in some secret code. I haven't tried with my new phone, but then I always have decent signal strength (except in the woods, but nothing works there).

 

[robble]

I feel bad for all the iphone4 owners. I know I wouldn't put up with this crap from any manufacturer. They're basically saying screw you we're not going to actually fix the problem and oh while we're at it your reception was never as good as you thought; because we've been rigging the phone to show better reception than you actually have for the last couple generations of iphone.

this helps apple how? "We've been hiding how crappy the signal strength from ATT has been" They just keep digging themselves in deeper.

When did Apple start letting the Onion write their press releases?

The Onion would have a hard time topping this real story.

wtf? So now they're going to start jacking with the signal reception on my iphone 3gs... so in other words, they're going to artificially lower reception across the board so I always show 1 or 2 bars rather than the normal 4-5.

What a joke, own up to the flaw and fix it.

No, They are not artificially lowering reception - you never had it and they just lied and said you did.

The only time you'll lose signal when touching that spot is if your signal is already poor. If you have a decent signal, it's not going to drop out.

That sounds like a quote from Apple itself.

******


Reading that letter from Apple they clearly spelled out how to cheaply fix the problem once and for all.

As a reminder, if you are not fully satisfied, you can return your undamaged iPhone to any Apple Retail Store or the online Apple Store within 30 days of purchase for a full refund.

 

[kllrnohj]

Good points. It would be interesting to see the levels that bars align to on some other phones. Do you know if AT&T has guideline for this?

Here is what Android does:

0 bars
-113 dB
1 bar
-105 dB
2 bars
-97 dB
3 bars
-81 dB
4 bars

So the iPhone measures from -113 to -91+, Android measures from -113 to -81+.

Compared to Android, Apple appears to be boosting the appeared strength a bit.

 

[Boreas]

Sounds like somebodys trying to cover their rear-ends.

 

[tubular]

BWAHAHAHHAAH, the downward spiral begins once again! hopefully this time people pay attention to it

 

[Sikkyu]

stay classy apple

 

[TechLarry]

There is no spoon...

 

[[RIP]Zeus]

The cake is a lie!!!

 

[dyzophoria]

let me guess in a day they will deny the article and say "someone published a fake article regarding those antenna bars" lol